Hush Is Jason Todd ? (Possible Spoilers) (Now Even More Spoilers)

RKMBs

There I said it......I thought this theory was a bunch of horseshit the first time I heard it........but now I'm not so sure. [izzat so?]

i am a coming back

Quick, to the Bat-900 lines! :)

I killed Jason Todd...it's true...

I was one of the few thousand who actually called in and one of the ones who voted death...

I still don't regret it...

I still think there's something weird going on..In fact I still think two-face is hush.

How many of Batman's friends/family/enemies have died and would need to use a Lazarus Pit???

I don't think it's Jason Todd. Re-read The Long Halloween and Dark Victory. The characters have symbolic roles which (after reading Loeb's prior Batman stories) are apparent in Hush. Long story short, he tends to utilize overlooked characters with a great deal of power (legally acquired or otherwise). That's why I suspected Talia, briefly.

I guess there could possibly be one benefit if it turned out to be Jason - we might get to see the loser die again. No reason the younger generation of readers doesn't deserve the same thrill we got. I vote for the title "To Die, and Die Again".

quote:
Originally posted by Wingnut-EL:
I guess there could possibly be one benefit if it turned out to be Jason - we might get to see the loser die again. No reason the younger generation of readers doesn't deserve the same thrill we got. I vote for the title "To Die, and Die Again".

i can promise you if jason comes back he wont die again, u can take that to the bank, i will bet all of bruce waynes money on that [biiiig grin]

i like to refer to myself in the 3rd person

I know Jason. I'm mostly just razzin' you (mostly, not completely).

Could Two-Face have used a pit to regenerate his scarred face??

How about Hugo Strange?

Ra's said to Bats......"Ask Yourself Detective.........Who In Your Life Would Wish To Come Back From The Dead?"

Those were his last words to Bruce in the latest issue #616. So with that reasoning how many dead people close to Bruce want to come back and know him so well......only one Jason Todd. [izzat so?]

quote:
Originally posted by whomod:
Could Two-Face have used a pit to regenerate his scarred face??

Yes he could have and may have......but it was hinted that he had lots of plastic surgery. [izzat so?]

quote:
Originally posted by Dave:
How about Hugo Strange?

Probably not just because of the Ra's quote......but you never know the quote may be a red herring.

quote:
Originally posted by Pig Iron:
I killed Jason Todd...it's true...

I was one of the few thousand who actually called in and one of the ones who voted death...

I still don't regret it...

Neither do I.

The way I saw it, DC gave me a choice: Accept the character as he was, or get rid of him. Had they polled to see whether or not Todd needed a personality overhaul, things would have been different.

Of course, I *was* pretty young at the time.

quote:
Originally posted by PJP:
Ra's said to Bats......"Ask Yourself Detective.........Who In Your Life Would Wish To Come Back From The Dead?"

With my luck, it'll be the woman offed in Bruce Wayne: Murderer.

quote:
Originally posted by A Jar of Cardinals:

quote:
Originally posted by PJP:
Ra's said to Bats......"Ask Yourself Detective.........Who In Your Life Would Wish To Come Back From The Dead?"
With my luck, it'll be the woman offed in Bruce Wayne: Murderer.

That would be pretty creepy......Hell Hath No Fury Like A Woman Scorned. [mwah hwah haa]

I didn't know this. So the list of candidates are:

1. Jason Todd
2. Thomas and Martha Wayne
3. murdered woman in Bruce Wayne: Murderer
4. the woman who was the Reaper? Was she killed or am I getting muddled?
5. Earth 2 Batman. Heh. Just joking.

quote:
Originally posted by PJP:
Ra's said to Bats......"Ask Yourself Detective.........Who In Your Life Would Wish To Come Back From The Dead?"

Who the hell wouldn't want to come back from the dead?

Anyways I always thought Hush had to be someone who knew his secret ID. So that would only leave a couple of people. Off hand I could think-
Jason Todd-Back from the dead
Talia-Not dead Ra's clue implied they would be
Ra's-We know it's not him now
Bane-Not dead
His Parents-
His Ex-girlfriend Who was murdered-Could be brought back but I don't think she really knew who he was.

Is Silver St Cloud still alive..I've lost track of my Bat history..???

I don't know much about Batman either. I haven't read his book for a while but I have been following most of the rumors on Hush.

quote:
Originally posted by Pig Iron:
Is Silver St Cloud still alive..I've lost track of my Bat history..???

As far as I know, yep. She just left him.

Yeah she's still alive. [izzat so?]

"Who in your life would wish to come back from the dead?"

Think about this quote. A dead person can not readily "wish" to be brought back. But a person who knew they were going to die could.

Just food for thought.

(and I am not saying this idea makes me happy, because the implications = something that truly does not sit well with me.)

How many issues of this storyline were there supposed to be? 12, wasn't it? it started in 608, now its on 616. So isn't there just 3 more to go? With the huge finale this arc seems to be going towards, I doubt Loeb is gonna wait until the last issue to reveal who Hush is. So I say its Dent.

i want to come back, i have been dead long enough, its very liberating....but i want to come back

*sigh* Better start looking for my crowbar..looks like someone can't take a hint...

quote:
Originally posted by Stupid Dogg:
How many issues of this storyline were there supposed to be? 12, wasn't it? it started in 608, now its on 616. So isn't there just 3 more to go...

How'd you get 3?

Oh wait, I'll shut up now.

Or maybe it is Tommy Elliot. After all, Ra's did say, "Who in your life would wish to come back from the dead?". Maybe Tommy had Two-Face get in touch with the Joker to be at just the right spot to make it look like Joker did it, and also had him call Jim Gordon to stop Batman from killing Joker. Between his death and burial Elliot had made plans to be taken to a Lazarus Pit. In the meantime, Batman is looking for Elliots killer and is too busy to pay attention to whatever it is that Hush is doing. I think it might have to do with that RC-60 defoliate or the Lamont Chemical factory mentioned in #608

I do think the bandaged guy we've seen is Dent, but he's not Hush. A couple more Hints that Elliot is Hush:

In #609, as Huntress and the Batmobile are racing off, Dent is watching from the rooftops and says "Without friends no one would choose to live. Though he had all other goods." Same Issue is a flashback where Tommy and Bruce are kids playing a war game, and Tommy is whoopin' Bruce because he is able to think far ahead of Bruce.

In #611, Thomas says, "There is something you could do for me, However..." Thomas then tells Bruce he wants to play a game of war, and he wants Bruce to actually show up for a check-up. When Bruce points out that's two things, Thomas reply's, "It is, isn't it?"

In #612, after Batman and Superman get Ivy, they're talking on a roof top. Batman says, "what are...friends for...?" the next panel you see Dent watching them through binoculars,repeating what Batman just said and laughing.

fuck it, I AM CUMING BACK

quote:
Originally posted by superxandman:
"Who in your life would wish to come back from the dead?"

Think about this quote. A dead person can not readily "wish" to be brought back. But a person who knew they were going to die could.

Just food for thought.

(and I am not saying this idea makes me happy, because the implications = something that truly does not sit well with me.)

Who do you think it is?

Jason Todd sucks and he stole my Avatar...

I just smelled this rat last issue…

Think about this. Who in the DCU has the money, the sophistication, and the political power to not only compete with Batman/Bruce Wayne but to know his secret identity?

Two Words...

S

P

O

I

L

E

R

S

P

A

C

E

Lex Luthor...

This whole thing will be played into and used to promote the upcoming Superman/Batman book.

Batman and Superman bring down Luthor and his Presidency in that book and I think HUSH (Lex) just made it personal for Batman.

But of course it could be Jason Todd... (But its not [wink]

)

I'm still willing to believe that Tommy Eliot is pulling the strings and masterminding this whole affair. It's wholly possible that he fixed Two-Face up with a plastic surgeon (him being a doctor himself) and then had him contact all of Batman's rogues gallery to pull them into the ultimate caper. He stages and carries out his own death and uses the Lazarus Pit to resurrect himself, enabling him to be alive for the 'grand finale'.

Seriously, I can't shake it. He and Bruce are just too similar for it all to just be coincidence...

quote:
Originally posted by Chewy Walrus:
I'm still willing to believe that Tommy Eliot is pulling the strings and masterminding this whole affair. It's wholly possible that he fixed Two-Face up with a plastic surgeon (him being a doctor himself) and then had him contact all of Batman's rogues gallery to pull them into the ultimate caper. He stages and carries out his own death and uses the Lazarus Pit to resurrect himself, enabling him to be alive for the 'grand finale'.

Seriously, I can't shake it. He and Bruce are just too similar for it all to just be coincidence...

Yeah definitely a great theory.....so what was his motivation......Does he blame Bruce for the Death of his Father?

It's Two-Face..uhh, Two-Face.

quote:
Originally posted by PJP:
Yeah definitely a great theory.....so what was his motivation......Does he blame Bruce for the Death of his Father?

They keep mentioning 'games' throughout the story. My guess is that this is another game for Tommy, like the ones he and Bruce played as children. Strategy games. Tommy was always better at them, remember. Pointing blame for death may be a good motivator, but I think that, for Tommy, this is all just another opportunity to show up his friend.

Could be wrong, though...

quote:
Originally posted by Chewy Walrus:

quote:
Originally posted by PJP:
Yeah definitely a great theory.....so what was his motivation......Does he blame Bruce for the Death of his Father?
They keep mentioning 'games' throughout the story. My guess is that this is another game for Tommy, like the ones he and Bruce played as children. Strategy games. Tommy was always better at them, remember. Pointing blame for death may be a good motivator, but I think that, for Tommy, this is all just another opportunity to show up his friend.

Could be wrong, though...

Sounds Good.....I'm willing to buy that. I'm getting anxious for the end now.

i am waiting for the end as well [sad]

DC is doing a Who Is Hush? Contest and this is their list of possibles for the answer.

Alfred
Babera Gordon
Bruce Wayne
Catwoman
Clayface
Harvey Dent
Hugo Starnge
Lex Luthor
Jason Todd
Jim Gordon
Killer Croc
Martian Manhunter
Nightwing
Thomas Wayne
Superman
The Joker
The Penguin
The Riddler
The Roman
Tommy Elliot
Two Face

So its one of these suspects

Catwoman would be a neat answer, but unlikely.

quote:

Clayface

WOO!!!

I AM HUSH,....NUFF SAID [nyah hah]

This Wednesday we should finally find out for sure.........I still think it's Jason Todd. [izzat so?]

Well, that would be nice if we found out Wed., but that just shows us

SPOILER (maybe)

If said pic is real, just that Jason Todd may be back. No Hush yet though. It'll be a long August. $[...rassamnfrackin...]$

OK So now we know that the Jason Todd pic is real......but is Jason Todd Hush?.....probably not. Here's something I thought about when reading this story today........Jason is an adult now but was a young teen when he was murdered.......The Lazarus Pit restores you back to life but it doesn't make you age.........which means whoever put Jason in the Lazarus Pit did it years ago and has been planning this whole thing since then. Who is Hush???? I'm stumped and I'm loving every minute of this story.

I love how Jason is jealous of Tim and calls him the Pretender. [worst. icon. ever.]

Recent information is that Rucka is writing the last Ra's Al Ghul story. Jason has the Lazarus pit white streak in his hair. Could ra's have finally found his heir and a husband for Talia in Jason. After all, Ra's knows everything about batsy..even the Jason stuff.....

How cool would it be if jason takes over the head empire and gets Batman's beloved as well.....

quote:
Originally posted by Pig Iron:
Recent information is that Rucka is writing the last Ra's Al Ghul story. Jason has the Lazarus pit white streak in his hair. Could ra's have finally found his heir and a husband for Talia in Jason. After all, Ra's knows everything about batsy..even the Jason stuff.....

How cool would it be if jason takes over the head empire and gets Batman's beloved as well.....

That would be freakin' awesome!!!! If that's how they would write Jason as a villain I would love that.

Hell ya! That would be cool. Ra's should go out with a bang. No half measures for this guy. What was up with all that stuff Huntress was saying. Lots of clues including Scarecrow's, "I...I don't understand. My fear gas should have affected you. Unless...your mind was already infected by another--" At that point he is hit in the head by Jason Todd. Strange stuff, the sword's location in the Bat computer's console (wonder if Bats found anything there), only Bats and Alfred knew Jason Todd's location, Huntress's words, Scarecrow's words, Jason Todd

batman had a microchip in his hand in one scene in the batcave..apparently found when he was searching the console....

And what was up with Batman and Tim talking about Catwoman.......Tim asked "Did she bring it?"

Isn't that a Rock qoute???

Maybe Jeph Loeb is a WWE fan.....LOL.

quote:
Originally posted by Pig Iron:
Recent information is that Rucka is writing the last Ra's Al Ghul story. Jason has the Lazarus pit white streak in his hair. Could ra's have finally found his heir and a husband for Talia in Jason. After all, Ra's knows everything about batsy..even the Jason stuff.....

How cool would it be if jason takes over the head empire and gets Batman's beloved as well.....

Pig Iron, you have summed up all my hopes beautifully! [cool]

Huge plot development!

So I'm confused. Didn't bandage guy (Hush?) reveal himself to the Joker as Dent? Now he's revealed to be Todd (in a cooler Robin outfit I may add)? WTF is going on?

Clayface.

WOO!!! [woooOOOOoooo!]

That's what I'm guessin'.

quote:
Originally posted by Sacman:
So I'm confused. Didn't bandage guy (Hush?) reveal himself to the Joker as Dent? Now he's revealed to be Todd (in a cooler Robin outfit I may add)? WTF is going on?

It's all a game, Mr. Wayne. . .

Hush is Martian Manhunter. "Now I'm Harvey Dent! Now I'm Jason Todd! Now I'm Scarecrow! Fuck you, Batman."

quote:
Originally posted by PJP:
And what was up with Batman and Tim talking about Catwoman.......Tim asked "Did she bring it?"

No, he said, "do you think she bought it?"

You know what peeves me the most? The clues are all in front of us...somewhere.

quote:
Originally posted by Stupid Dogg:

quote:
Originally posted by PJP:
And what was up with Batman and Tim talking about Catwoman.......Tim asked "Did she bring it?"
No, he said, "do you think she bought it?"

OK but what does that mean?

Bought their ruse that tim was a jealous little punk. the spoiled Son act. So they seemed to not be working together, but truly were...

quote:
Originally posted by Danny:
Hush is Martian Manhunter. "Now I'm Harvey Dent! Now I'm Jason Todd! Now I'm Scarecrow! Fuck you, Batman."

All part of your theory that Martian Manhunter retracts his penis when its cold, eh?

I think Hush is Hugo Strange

I think Hush is Bane

I think Hush is Ra's

I think Hush is an episode of Buffy...

As a HUGE fan of Ra's Al Ghul I can only hope that he is Hush and Jason Todd is his heir apparent or that "Death and the Maidens" is not Ra's last story. My reasons being that if there is going to be no more Ra's Al Ghul stories then I want him to have the last laugh on Batman and go out with a bang! I can honestly see no better way for Ra's to accomplish this than by bringing Jason back after all these years. Think about it, what better way to perminently scar Batman than to make him lose his son, not once, BUT TWICE! And considering how Batman always tried to change Jason, for Jason to fall under the "spell" of Batman's greatest villain, well that's just priceless! Ra's would leave this world knowing that he got to Batman and still found a worthy successor to his empire. If you can't get Batman, then a Robin's gotta be the next best thing!

I Pity The Fool.

I'm A Billionaire Dammit

I AM JUST DAMN GLAD I AM NOT DEAD ANYMORE, FUCK DEATH, DEATH IS A BITCH

quote:
Originally posted by PJP:
OK So now we know that the Jason Todd pic is real......but is Jason Todd Hush?.....probably not. Here's something I thought about when reading this story today........Jason is an adult now but was a young teen when he was murdered.......The Lazarus Pit restores you back to life but it doesn't make you age.........which means whoever put Jason in the Lazarus Pit did it years ago and has been planning this whole thing since then...I love how Jason is jealous of Tim and calls him the Pretender.

This twist might have been great had it been in a better story, or as a story of its own. But "Hush" is so bad that I can only chalk Loeb's use of it up to a last-ditch act of shock value to try and prop up a turkey with no legs.

Too bad, because I'd be far more interested in a story where Jason is revived as a tool of Ra's Al Ghul than a boring murder mystery I couldn't get into even if I had an RSVP.

If what I just read on the DCMBs is true, maybe this isn't so bad...

quote:
after doing some thinking I just figured something out...

spoilers...

there are more than one bandaged person...if you reread all the issues again, you''ll notice that 3 persons were seen wearing a long brown coat and bandages on their face...

Croc
Two Face
and
Jason Todd

and if you notice something, all 3 of these characters underwent major changes...

croc mutated

two face reverted back to Harvey Dent

Jason Todd lives again...

I'm still thinking what the implication of this is, but I think I can safely say that all these 3 "bandaged" characters are not Hush, rather they are Hush's pawns

Could Hush be Ra Al Ghul who already knows Batman is Bruce Wayne and has used the Lazarus Pits to change these 3 pawns?

or is Hush Tommy Elliot?

The more I think about it, the more I am convinced that Catwoman is the spy Tommy referred to when he and Bruce were kids playing the game.

another vital mystery to solve is who Huntres is referring to in her delusional state. She keeps saying he...but I belive she is referring to two persons, the first he is "Hush"...his money is clean that's why I took it and made a new costume (I'm paraphrasing and I love the explanation for Huntress' new costume...could Huntress be referring to Tommy?)...the second he is obviosuly Batman...I saved his life and put him in the batmobile.

I still have 30 days to go to think this through, I think, I'll reread all the issues again and make some notes. The real Hush will prolly be revealed at the end of 618...and want to figure it out on my own before then.

another theory...
Batman is infected by Hush's fear gas causing him to see Hush as Jaon Todd. at 618, Bats and "Jason" fight. Bats will prevail in the end,and when his mind clears, he'll see that the "Jason Todd" he fought with is not really Jason but really the true identity of Hush.

I just realized now the mastery and genius of Jeph in crafting Hush's myster as well as its overall story and plot. I used to think that Hush was just light on plot and is just an excuse for Jim to draw every Batman character and villain, whetting fan's appetite. I know realized that it still is an excuse for Jim to draw all these characters, LOL, but Jeph has at the same time crafted a masterful mystery that is gradually pulling me in.
great job and kudos Jeph and Jim!

I think the page opposite the "revelation" says a lot about the chances of Jason being Hush.

yes

I think Hush is Homer

stoopid Moe. . .and your stoopid beer. . .

mmmmm. . .beer. . .

Does Clayface have an origin?

Could Clayface be Tommy?

I think all Clayfaces have origins and previous identities except Clayface IV (who was created by Kobra in the original Outsiders series). She may have an ambiguous past.

Look for the Secret Origins Special:The Mudpack that came out in '89 or '90.It gave the origins of all the Clayfaces.

Cool.

That pic's getting bigger.

Hush is (Ma)Gog?

Hush is not Jason. Dent is not himself either.

Watch.

...you'll see.

Or maybe not, I dunno!

My only problem with the Tommy Eliot theory is "introduce a character to make him a villian" is weak.

Now if Tommy was Clayface or somthing alone those lines, then...
$[...rassamnfrackin...]$

quote:
Originally posted by rric528:
My only problem with the Tommy Eliot theory is "introduce a character to make him a villian" is weak.

It's not just that the character was introduced. It's the amount of time that Loeb has spent exploring his connection with Bruce and the rest of the Wayne family. Loeb's done too much with him just to toss him out the way he has.

Personally, I think Tommy's the real Hush and faked his death or some sort... buuuuuut, all the time Loeb spent on him and his relationship to Bruce could just be a red herring and just character development for Bruce. Probably not, but ya never know.

yes

Now I'm really confused.....after reading #618 I just don't know what to think. More and more I'm thinking it is someone with mystical powers. Harold was an interesting twist though......too bad he's gone now. Whoever is doing all this has the power to heal and alter people. Hush has healed Harold and altered Killer Croc. So I don't think it's Tommy he is just a doctor not a magician or sorcerer.

Clayface!

quote:
Originally posted by PJP:
Now I'm really confused.....after reading #618 I just don't know what to think. More and more I'm thinking it is someone with mystical powers. Harold was an interesting twist though......too bad he's gone now. Whoever is doing all this has the power to heal and alter people. Hush has healed Harold and altered Killer Croc. So I don't think it's Tommy he is just a doctor not a magician or sorcerer.

Shondra Kinsolving. . . [eh?]

Harold was an interesting touch. He hasn't been used in what, almost a decade?

Is Lucius Fox still around?

I think so.

quote:
Originally posted by Dave:
Is Lucius Fox still around?

Yes.

Who's Harold?

Yeah can someone explain Harold to us? I figured JT was Clayface...or did I?...anyway good issue. I wanna see what will come of Bats showing Cats who he is. Maybe Hush is the guy who used to run the amusement park. Jinkies!!

I'm not reading Hush, but Harold was some technical genius who, otherwise, was mentally retarded. He originally aided the Penguin but escaped (during the Penguin Affair storyline). Batman later found him and rescued him from an angry mob. Because of his technical expertise (and I guess because his retardation could prevent him from divulging Batman's secrets) Batman had him working in the Batcave. I don't know what's happened to him between pre-Knightfall and now.

I have like ten Bat-Man comics, but that seems familiar. So, he's Hush?

Apparently not. Loeb threw another curve, it appears.

...and just you wait until you see the end...

OK!

Thank God for PJP