Most dissapointing comic you ever read?

RKMBs

Me, I was looking forward to X-Men when I heard Grant Morrison was taking it over. He did good with both Animal Man and JLA, so what was the worry? I purposefully stayed far and away from any any info on the project so it would be surprising.

Well, it... was. Sadly.

That's one comic that went to the trash and fast. [worst. icon. ever.]

You?

quote:
Originally posted by FF TLSOK:
You?

Midnight Nation, the second to last issue wasn't all that great, but the last issue made it better.

Daredevil by Smith and Lazy Joe Quesada.

Superman: Birthright sounded like it could have been sooooo good but the preview art at Pulse shows how crappy it's gonna be.

Gotham Knights #41. I hated the art. The story ws so so.....and i am goddamn sick of this Alfred being sick storyline and they just started it. This title is going nowhere fast. [no no no]

DKSA

Hush

the LotDK 'Going Sane' arc

Superman

Superman.

DKSA

Gotham Knights

New team on Batgirl

Kelly's JLA

Moore and Gaiman's Spawn issues. Suckitude is contagious!

JSA. Great book, but turned gradually into crap after James Robinson left. It's currently in it's final stages of decay, since everything but the kitchen sink is being tossed into a final storyline that I doubt will make anymore sense at the end than it does now.

Daredevil since Frank Miller left.

DKSA, of course.

All X-Men comics between the time Dave Cockrum left Uncanny (the first time) and until Grant Morrison started scripting New X-Men.

Every major crossover event for Marvel.

Every major crossover event for DC since "The Janus Directive".

--Rich

My list could go on forever. So I won't bore you with it.

I will say, though, that Spawn/Batman and the Dark Knight stories are the top two worst things I've ever read in my entire life. Frank Miller's Batman leaves a lot to be desired. Gimme Englehart and Wein any day.

after knowing about since forever, i read Crisis on Infinite Earths almost two years ago.

it wasnt so much a disapointment because i previously read Wolfman's Superman story, Infestation. so i expected going in not to like CRISIS.

but GOOD LORD... nothing prepared me.

other than that, recent disapointments include: JSA (as a title). OWAW (as a crossover), Bryan Hitch (as an artist), Geoff Johns (as a writer), Zatanna Everyday Magic (as a one-shot and Dini's foray into Vertigo), and Hush thus far (as a storyline).

DKSA
Origin
Spiderman: Blue
Rick Veitch's Aquaman

Mine was Jinx Treasure "something", I think it was edition. I wanted to try a Bendis story after all the fanboy praise and after reading it I was sure that I could have written AND drawn that piece of rubbish, it had the feel of being produced while the creator was incredibly bored.
I wasn't much into Powers either, so Bendis-books are now a definite must-not-buy each month.

The sequal to Kingdom Come.

Kingdom C-R-A-P I think it was called.

It was so bad I blocked most of the story from my memory but I recall that is was a visual disaster for me.

Everyone has seemed to forget Namor #1. That shitty comic isn't worth wiping my cats ass with.

I didn't forget it. Dissapointment for me requires having high expectations beforehand. I expected Namor to be shitty. I had higher hopes for DKSA and Origin.

Garth Ennis on Punisher.
Did absolutely nothing for me.

The Kingdom
The first two appearances of Hitman

Anything written by Dudd Winick

DKSA
Spiderman in the late 90s

Jeez...there are a lot of titles that just blew - though, I'm surprised by one or two of the other comments (love Hitch, loved all of Midnight Nation). Ok, what sucked ass:

Origin - that book sucked on so many levels - the story - boring, the art was so-so...all the hype for nada, squat, zero, zip...

Spiderman: Blue was disappointing.

DKSA for the same reasons as Origin - when is Miller going to do another Sin City tale?

The Batgirl title - not to be confused with the excellent Batgirl: Y1 mind you, but the title does nothing for me - but I admit, I'm also biased, as I really don't like the new BG.

I havent forgotten Namor #1. That was crap. Totally and utterly crap that actually wasnt even worth my quarter. That's like...half of a coke dammit!

quote:
Originally posted by therealdeadshot:
I wasn't much into Powers either, so Bendis-books are now a definite must-not-buy each month.

I tried reading Bendis' books a couple of times, and both times I came away wondering, "What the heck did this guy do to get all this praise?" His so-called "great dialogue" is just annoying, meaningless blather ("But I have cases! I have cases!") and his stories are boring and uninvolving. You couldn't pay me to read this guy's stuff.

But again, my list of godawful reading experiences would run too long and bore you all to death. So I'll still spare you the boredom and bandwidth.

The Loeb/Sale Challengers of the Unknown mini-series from several years back. I was hoping for something that would revitalize the characters and concept. Didn't happen. A noble failure, though.

Stuff like DKSA and Origin I expected to be terrible, so I can't call those dissapointments.

DKSA was especially bad because it was so expensive.

Recently, a really awful comic I read was the last issue of Titans -- WTF? Talk about rushed, anticlimactic endings. What a sad way to end a series... good thing I wasn't a fan.

quote:
Originally posted by harleykwin:
The Batgirl title - not to be confused with the excellent Batgirl: Y1 mind you, but the title does nothing for me - but I admit, I'm also biased, as I really don't like the new BG.

I agree. Just not cool. She's fine as a character, but... was she really necessary? She's not all that spectacular. Does the bat clan need another addition? ....I didn't think so...

quote:
Originally posted by A Jar of Cardinals:
The Loeb/Sale Challengers of the Unknown mini-series from several years back. I was hoping for something that would revitalize the characters and concept. Didn't happen. A noble failure, though.

There was a good Superman story that came out of it: TAOS #508, "The Future Is Now," by Kesel and Kitson. One of the last truly great post-Crisis Superman yarns before the books totally collapsed, and a cool team-up issue to boot.

DKSA
Superman vs Darksied
Suicide Squad
Spectre(has that rag got the ax yet?)

The three Call of Duty mini-series from last year. I was expecting something like a realistic look at firefighters and cops (similar to DC's Underworld mini-series from the late 80's). I was disappointed that they added a sci-fi element to it.

Ultimate Daredevil and Elektra. I was expecting at least something similar to the movie (since I don't read Daredevil and don't know much about the two characters' history together).

Grant Morrisons New Xmen - wotta load of shite (apart from killing Genosha of course)

What? Chris Claremont, author of the Dark Phoenix Saga, the Brood Saga, etc etc, is coming back to the X-men? All right!

"Revolution" - oy!

quote:
Originally posted by Stupid Dogg:
Everyone has seemed to forget Namor #1. That shitty comic isn't worth wiping my cats ass with.

i havent forgotten [no no no]

i would rather get thoroughly beaten by an angry mob than buying to read the second issue of that... that... thing.

quote:
Originally posted by Lothar of The Hill People:
Spectre(has that rag got the ax yet?)

Yep. It's a goner.

quote:
Originally posted by King Krypton:

quote:
Originally posted by A Jar of Cardinals:
The Loeb/Sale Challengers of the Unknown mini-series from several years back. I was hoping for something that would revitalize the characters and concept. Didn't happen. A noble failure, though.
There was a good Superman story that came out of it: TAOS #508, "The Future Is Now," by Kesel and Kitson. One of the last truly great post-Crisis Superman yarns before the books totally collapsed, and a cool team-up issue to boot.

Oh, yeah. The team-up with the original Challengers. That was a great, great issue. Nice little tribute to my favorite Chall, Prof. Haley, as well.

quote:
Originally posted by A Jar of Cardinals:

quote:
Originally posted by King Krypton:

quote:
Originally posted by A Jar of Cardinals:
The Loeb/Sale Challengers of the Unknown mini-series from several years back. I was hoping for something that would revitalize the characters and concept. Didn't happen. A noble failure, though.
There was a good Superman story that came out of it: TAOS #508, "The Future Is Now," by Kesel and Kitson. One of the last truly great post-Crisis Superman yarns before the books totally collapsed, and a cool team-up issue to boot.
Oh, yeah. The team-up with the original Challengers. That was a great, great issue. Nice little tribute to my favorite Chall, Prof. Haley, as well.

Two best scenes in the issue: the bit between Superman and Cat Grant at her son's funeral (Kitson and McCarthy's wonderful shadowy art stole the show with this moment) and the end, where Superman promises not to tell the Challengers their future...while Prof. Haley's tombstone shows up in the last panel. Classic. [biiiig grin]

It's a tie between Miller's apalling Dark Knight Strikes Back and the spectacular belly-flop that was DC's Our Worlds At War crossover. However, since I was able to read DKSB by borrowing a friend's copies, I had to BUY every sucktacular issue of OWAW, so with that in mind, the title goes to OWAW. Truly inspired ineptitude.

You had to buy every single OWAW issue? Good lord, man, that thing went on for over a year, why would you subject yourself to that kind of trauma? Did you not realize that it was going to suck after the first few months?

I have my masochistic tendencies, sure, but that's just ridiculous. My sympathies, sir.

Lab Rats (I think issues 4-6). That was the whole "Finding Supes in the future" deal. IMO it stunk, I saw the whole thing coming. Superman comics in general just suck, although I am enjoying "The Harvest", too bad I have to wait another month for the conclusion.

Action Comics #1. I can't believe they blew up Krypton! And it was only one panel. [no no no]

And not even a SPLASH page! what were those hacks, Seigel and Shuster thinking?!! [eh?]

Green Lantern Vol III #50.

Nuff Said!

quote:
Originally posted by Gladiator X:
Green Lantern Vol III #50.

Nuff Said!

Uhhh... GX, I'm just wondering here, not flaming or anything, but...

If GL v.III #50 was your MOST disappointing book ever, why do you have Kyle as your Avatar???? [izzat so?]

quote:
Originally posted by Poverty Lad:

quote:
Originally posted by Gladiator X:
Green Lantern Vol III #50.

Nuff Said!
Uhhh... GX, I'm just wondering here, not flaming or anything, but...

If GL v.III #50 was your MOST disappointing book ever, why do you have Kyle as your Avatar????

Basically I've changed my opinion since then.I used to be really mad about it but recently things in the comic and my personal life have given me a new perspective on things.

It's been a long road but I got over the past and moved on and I'm just a Green Lantern fan now.

It's funny how much more enjoyable things are if you just leave the past in the past and try and enjoy things for what they are.

Ah. Never mind, I just read your post in the "New Take on a Character" thread... You answered me before I even asked! [biiiig grin]

Right on.

quote:
Originally posted by Poverty Lad:
Action Comics #1. I can't believe they blew up Krypton! And it was only one panel. And not even a SPLASH page! what were those hacks, Seigel and Shuster thinking?!!

Don't you just love sarcasm? [wink]

DKSA, hands down.

But just to be cantankerous, I'm going to give an honorable mention to Watchmen. It wasn't bad, by any means, but from what I had heard of it, I was expecting it to be jaw-dropping, edge-of-my-seat outstanding. It weren't.

I guess we could add The Man of Steel to this list.

It had some ideas I liked. The Kents living to see Clark become Superman? Not bad. Lana Lang as Clark's confidant? Cool. Superman's costume being normal fabric that can be damaged? Why not? It makes for a good visual when he goes head-to-head with Darkseid and Brainiac. Luthor as a businessman? Well...it was interesting at first, but boy, did it wear out it's welcome after the first few years of the revamp. It's STILL boring as all get-out. No distinction between Clark and Superman? Bad move. Clark doesn't have to be a nerdy wimp (the Alyn and Reeves versions weren't), but there needs to be SOME difference in the two personas. The treatment of Krypton? HATE IT. Superman's rejection of Krypton and assertion that only his humanity matters? Equally bad. He's supposed to be SUPERMAN, not superMAN or SUPERman. Swinging to one side at the expense of the other has always been a major mistake made with the character. This story was hardly the end-all be-all of Superman that fans claim it is.

The "Vampire Batman" Elseworlds stories were cack, too. Bad writing, bad art, some needlessly gory moments...did this really need to be made into a trilogy? Wouldn't one book have been enough?

Kevin Smith's Spider-Man/Black Cat book is a major disappointment, too. What was the point of even doing the mini-series when he wasn't going to finish it? He just left us hanging with Black Cat drugged and on the verge of being raped. Would it really have killed him to finish the story instead of leaving it hanging on a distasteful note?

"Hush" is a loser, too. Jeph Loeb USED to be a good writer. Why is he just coasting now?

JLA: Earth 2 had a good premise, but its conclusion was really wimpy and half-baked. Would it have been such a problem to have the two teams go at it in a full-scale battle instead of dishing up a such a flaccid finale? And couldn't we have gotten a better artist than Frank "I make sure everyone looks like wrinkled parade balloons" Quitely?

Again, there's more, but I won't bore you with them.

quote:
Originally posted by King Krypton:
And couldn't we have gotten a better artist than Frank "I make sure everyone looks like wrinkled parade balloons" Quitely?

That's IT! I've been trying to find a comparison to his art for awhile now, and that's the perfect one! Thanks!

Not to sound cliched - but that Dark Knight sequel has to top the list. There were so many reasons why it should have been good. What the hell happenend?

Origin was another - just wasn't interesting unfortunately for such an important story.

Other than that I think I got my biggest dissapointments on Legends of the Dark Knight. I really enjoy the title generally, so whenever a dud story pops up, it makes me cry.

oh and the old team leaving Batgirl has broken me completely.

quote:
Originally posted by woodstock:

quote:
Originally posted by King Krypton:
And couldn't we have gotten a better artist than Frank "I make sure everyone looks like wrinkled parade balloons" Quitely?
That's IT! I've been trying to find a comparison to his art for awhile now, and that's the perfect one! Thanks!

Well, I had a hard time trying to pinpoint what exactly his art looked like. Those who say Ed McGuinness draws an overly bulky Superman nave never seen Quitely's version. Or his Batman. Or his Martian Manhunter. Or his Lex Luthor. Or his X-Men. Seriously, they all look like wrinkled old baloons pumped to bursting with helium. I half expect them to burst on themselves at any second. And his women all have old-lady faces and ridiculously elongated legs. They look more like "tomboy beanpoles" than Bend It Like Beckham's Keira Knightley ever could.

You can't tell me there isn't better artistic talent out there for Morrison to ally himself with.

bump

quote:
Originally posted by therealdeadshot:
Mine was Jinx Treasure "something", I think it was edition. I wanted to try a Bendis story after all the fanboy praise and after reading it I was sure that I could have written AND drawn that piece of rubbish, it had the feel of being produced while the creator was incredibly bored.
I wasn't much into Powers either, so Bendis-books are now a definite must-not-buy each month.

The art on Jinx is horrid....I could spill ink on a piece of paper and do better! Did Rosarch draw it?
But the story itself was purty good!

Well, I got #2 of The Authority vol. 2 and I put it down three times before I got to the end because it was so bad.

I actually threw bendis' Alias #1 away..only comic I ever threw out...it was a stinker..

I don't like Morrison's x-men much either..I like the concepts, but it fels like they aren't pulled off well or jumbled. And how can you "kill" magneto for a single issue shock and think it's a good thing.

The new Doom patrol was pathetic..what was DC thinking? And the art is pretty ugly. I sadly bought most of the issues...

Post-Stern, Jurgens Superman line books...mostly a waste of paper with a few decent stories thrown in.

quote:
Originally posted by Thriftshop Debutante:
What? Chris Claremont, author of the Dark Phoenix Saga, the Brood Saga, etc etc, is coming back to the X-men? All right!

"Revolution" - oy!

Claremont has been doing X-treme X-Men for a couple of years.

It's been good.

I don't think he ever stopped writing for an X-Book.

I don't think he was writing an X-Book when he did Sovereign 7

Right now I'm gonna say the whole "Graduation Day" thing....Whatthe hell are they thinking? Donna and Lilith get slaughtered for no appearant reason, and by the most unbelievable means imaginable. I think there was little or no thought put into this shit than " we gotta kill these chicks off"!

I think Chris bailed out on X-books back in 1991 after finishing the three-issue storyarc that opened the second X-MEN series. From where I sit, that's been the last good X-Men story he's told.

Chris's stuff on XXM is not among his better stuff.

But I'm not sure I can recall "my most disappointing read ever"...

--Jim

quote:
Originally posted by Pig Iron:
I actually threw bendis' Alias #1 away..only comic I ever threw out...it was a stinker..

Smartest move you could have made, dude. [biiiig grin]

quote:

I don't like Morrison's x-men much either..I like the concepts, but it fels like they aren't pulled off well or jumbled. And how can you "kill" magneto for a single issue shock and think it's a good thing.

Especially when the guy's only going to end up coming back in some way somewhere down the line....

quote:

Post-Stern, Jurgens Superman line books...mostly a waste of paper with a few decent stories thrown in.

Agreed. Stern and Jerry Ordway were the best post-Crisis Superman writers. The rest, Byrne included, have been forgettable. Kesel COULD have been just as good as Stern and Ordway, but Jurgens and company dragged him down like quicksand on a boulder.

quote:
Originally posted by Archangel Paulus:
I don't think he was writing an X-Book when he did Sovereign 7

Maybe not, but he was definitely writing an X book when he was supposed to be writing Fantastic Four. . .

quote:
Originally posted by Grimm:

quote:
Originally posted by Archangel Paulus:
I don't think he was writing an X-Book when he did Sovereign 7
Maybe not, but he was definitely writing an X book when he was supposed to be writing Fantastic Four. . .

LOL....true that... If it wasn't for the Larocca art it would have been unbearable..of course, I guess it was unbearable...

quote:
Originally posted by Pig Iron:

quote:
Originally posted by Grimm:

quote:
Originally posted by Archangel Paulus:
I don't think he was writing an X-Book when he did Sovereign 7
Maybe not, but he was definitely writing an X book when he was supposed to be writing Fantastic Four. . .
LOL....true that... If it wasn't for the Larocca art it would have been unbearable..of course, I guess it was unbearable...

Yeah, I remember him complaining about not being allowed to have Kitty Pryde show up in Fantastic Four during his run. Talk about recycling your pet characters....

Gotta add the Superman issue where they revealed the true identity of the new General Z. After all that waiting, it was my biggest let down in a while.

quote:
Originally posted by Wednesday:
Gotta add the Superman issue where they revealed the true identity of the new General Z. After all that waiting, it was my biggest let down in a while.

Oh, Lord, don't remind us.... [eh?]

Who is he anyway I forgot to check...shows my interest in the Supes titles..

quote:
Originally posted by Pig Iron:
Who is he anyway I forgot to check...shows my interest in the Supes titles..

Classic General Zod - a Kryptonian tyrant with a mad-on for Jor-El, gets locked up in the Phantom Zone

Current post-Crisis General Zod - some bitchy Russian cosmonaut who had plastic surgery done "at the genetic level" so he'd look like Superman and have his powers, and simply hates Superman because he's a nice guy

Ask yourself this: Which version sounds cooler? I vote for the classic Zod.

Yeah I know classic zod, and I did read OWAW...but a genetically engineered cosmonaut???

quote:
Originally posted by Pig Iron:
Yeah I know classic zod, and I did read OWAW...but a genetically engineered cosmonaut???

Yup. Kilgore's been making jokes at this new Zod's expense like crazy lately.

And with good reason...the new Zod is STUPID! [no no no]

Gimme the crazy Kryotinian dictator any day.

Quote:

AlienRay said:
DKSA, hands down.

But just to be cantankerous, I'm going to give an honorable mention to Watchmen. It wasn't bad, by any means, but from what I had heard of it, I was expecting it to be jaw-dropping, edge-of-my-seat outstanding. It weren't.

I felt the same way about reading Watchmen for the first time. I recently took a comic literature class where Watchmen was discussed, and from the class discussions and checking out web sites about the book, I REALLY appreciated it the second time.

Here's my picks...

Devin Grayson's Teen Titans run
Jay Faerber's Teen Titans run
The Last Laugh
The Millenium Giants arc in the Superman books
Genesis- what in the name of God was Byrne on?
Stan Lee's Just Imagine- I stopped after the third one, Superman, I think. 'Course, I suspected it might be bad after reading the Batman one. I mean, you would've thought Stan Lee would know by now that pro wrestling is fake!

Geoff Johns

Anything that Paul Levitz wrote.

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r3x29yz4a said:
Geoff Johns

Anything in the last 10 years that has Jeph Loeb's name on it. Hush (which started out as a kinda cool idea only to turn into a fanboy wankfest with a deus ex machina ending. Bleh.) and the 25+ issues of Superman/Batman immediately spring to mind.

I generally have lowered expectations to mainstream superheroics, but there are nonetheless a few that stand out in my mind:

1. the guide to Wanted. Millar wrote a great story awhich was more or less What if the Secret Society of Supervillains won in the DCU? But Image Comics being Image Comics, they couldn't help themselves and published a really, really crappy guide to go with it. It sucked and I binned it.

2. the ending to The Losers. One of the appeals of this book was its nod to reality: the opening caper by which the team steal a big helicopter was ruthless in its precision and could have come straight from a KGB manual. It was one fo the best thought-out stories I've ever read. But then the ending... a remarkable geological event creates a new island in the Persian Gulf? An oil rig manages to stay upright on it? And a CIA madman claims it as a sovereign country? The series jumped the shark at that point.

3. the involvement of Tom Strong and other ABC characters in the climax of Promethea. Even Alan Moore succumbs to temptation to create a crossover to lift sales. Pah.

And I generally think its a cop-out to depict the president of the US as not being George Bush. The Losers has some grey-haired portly chap who authorised Max to keep the world safe for democracy: the final issues of Millar's Authority had a balding man who had Seth shacked up in the White house with underaged kids as sex toys. Only Ultimates has Bush as President, and they do it well.

The ending to the Ezekiel story in Amazing Spider-Man.

Quote:

First Amongst Daves said:
And I generally think its a cop-out to depict the president of the US as not being George Bush. The Losers has some grey-haired portly chap who authorised Max to keep the world safe for democracy: the final issues of Millar's Authority had a balding man who had Seth shacked up in the White house with underaged kids as sex toys. Only Ultimates has Bush as President, and they do it well.

I think it was Bush originally. Remember that arc was written pre-9/11 but published immediately afterward and DC heavily edited it and even created a filler-arc to allow the finale issues to be re-done.
I think in general its also avoided because it can date the book and also may seem politically biased if any criticism is shown.

I'll have to go with AMAZING SPIDERMAN 289, the issue where, after years of dramatic build-up, they finally reveal who the Hobgoblin is, and none of the clues add up to the person they reveal.

Rip off !

Tom Defalco was the writer, and I don't recall the art team, but it was nothing the slightest bit outstanding.

To fully understand the incredible anti-climactic suckery this issue presents, you need to read AMAZING SPIDERMAN 238-250 to see how well the mystery, suspense and clues were developed and how thoroughly readers were cheated when issue 289 came out.

Quote:

Wonder Boy said:
I'll have to go with AMAZING SPIDERMAN 289, the issue where, after years of dramatic build-up, they finally reveal who the Hobgoblin is, and none of the clues add up to the person they reveal.

Rip off !

Tom Defalco was the writer, and I don't recall the art team, but it was nothing the slightest bit outstanding.

To fully understand incredible anti-climactic suckery this issue presents, you need to read AMAZING SPIDERMAN 238-250 to see how well the mystery, suspense and clues were developed and how thoroughly readers were cheated when issue 289 came out.

Didn't they admit they fucked up years later and release either a mini-series or a storyline where they correct the mistake? Only no one bought it...?

(I never read Spider-Man but I remember the "reveal" occuring in Spider-Man vs Wolverine...)

Quote:

First Amongst Daves said:
I generally have lowered expectations to mainstream superheroics, but there are nonetheless a few that stand out in my mind:

1. the guide to Wanted. Millar wrote a great story awhich was more or less What if the Secret Society of Supervillains won in the DCU? But Image Comics being Image Comics, they couldn't help themselves and published a really, really crappy guide to go with it. It sucked and I binned it.

I'm not a Millar fan, but I loved Wanted That said, I didn't even know that they had put out a guide. WTF for? It was a miniseries - seriously, what was the point of a guide? It just sounds stupid.

Quote:

Only Ultimates has Bush as President, and they do it well.

Agreed.

Oh, and don't ask me which issue it was that revealed that Jason Todd was alive (can't remember, exactly which one), but that's pretty much up there too. Oh, and Judd Winick's everything.

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Joe Mama said:
Quote:

Wonder Boy said:
I'll have to go with AMAZING SPIDERMAN 289, the issue where, after years of dramatic build-up, they finally reveal who the Hobgoblin is, and none of the clues add up to the person they reveal.

Rip off !

Tom Defalco was the writer, and I don't recall the art team, but it was nothing the slightest bit outstanding.

To fully understand the incredible anti-climactic suckery this issue presents, you need to read AMAZING SPIDERMAN 238-250 to see how well the mystery, suspense and clues were developed and how thoroughly readers were cheated when issue 289 came out.

Didn't they admit they fucked up years later and release either a mini-series or a storyline where they correct the mistake? Only no one bought it...?

(I never read Spider-Man but I remember the "reveal" occuring in Spider-Man vs Wolverine...)

A few of us discussed this awhile back in the Biggest WTF in Comics topic, pages 3 and 4, and I showed some of the issue covers discussed.

I'd be curious to see the SPIDERMAN VS WOLVERINE issues, if there were Hobgoblin developments there. Especially if they were better handled than the disappointing attempts I've seen !

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r3x29yz4a said:
Quote:

First Amongst Daves said:
And I generally think its a cop-out to depict the president of the US as not being George Bush. The Losers has some grey-haired portly chap who authorised Max to keep the world safe for democracy: the final issues of Millar's Authority had a balding man who had Seth shacked up in the White house with underaged kids as sex toys. Only Ultimates has Bush as President, and they do it well.

I think it was Bush originally. Remember that arc was written pre-9/11 but published immediately afterward and DC heavily edited it and even created a filler-arc to allow the finale issues to be re-done.
I think in general its also avoided because it can date the book and also may seem politically biased if any criticism is shown.

That's true, but if you're going to degrade the office, you may as well have the balls to degrade the office holder.

Quote:

Wonder Boy said:
I'll have to go with AMAZING SPIDERMAN 289, the issue where, after years of dramatic build-up, they finally reveal who the Hobgoblin is, and none of the clues add up to the person they reveal.

Rip off !

Tom Defalco was the writer, and I don't recall the art team, but it was nothing the slightest bit outstanding.

To fully understand incredible anti-climactic suckery this issue presents, you need to read AMAZING SPIDERMAN 238-250 to see how well the mystery, suspense and clues were developed and how thoroughly readers were cheated when issue 289 came out.

Peter David actually wrote it, and was hired at the last minute to do it by Jim Owsley (AKA Christopher Priest.) If I remember right, nobody knew who Roger Stern had planned on The Hobgoblin being, so Tom DeFalco just kinda strung readers along as long as he could. The decision to make Ned Leeds The Hobgoblin came at the last minute and was done only because he had been killed off about three months earlier in the Spider-Man/Wolverine one-shot.

I remember reading this story as a teenager and quitting comic books altogether for about six months out of disgust. Ugh!

The Killing of Ned Leeds in Spide-man Vs Wolverine was related and preplanned. I once translated the German being used by the KGB who were in the room and they were actually asking Peter if he had done it. It was all part of the set up.

Also, when Spider-man jumps the Berlin Wall, the guards are discussing their mothers' cooking.

Quote:

Karl Hungus said:
I think in general its also avoided because it can date the book and also may seem politically biased if any criticism is shown.

Yeah.

And the issue of making the story dated is especially acute in a genre where characters don't age but stories now remain in print as TPBs.

Remember, for example, Bill and Hillary attending Superman's "funeral"?

As a result, technically, you have to assume that Superman "died" at least six years ago. Which right now isn't too big of a deal. However, it will only get worse over time.