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Quote:
Disco Steve said:
Quote:
the G-man said:
I thought the Ralph-Sue incident being the reason for the Hawkman-GA feud was a little off. Based on my knowledge of silver age JLA timelines, Ollie and Hawkman were fueding long before Z joined the league. I guess that is a retcon, however and I'll have to live with.
I don't think it was the reason for the feud, was it? I think the feud would have driven the two to take opposite sides, not to mention driving Green Arrow to take a swing at Hawkman.
It was not the reason for the feud, it was just more "fuel on the fire" so to speak.
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I think I can narrow the field of suspects: Its someone with no powers. Flamethrower, then a rope.
If the killer was, say, Amazo, he'd just fry them with heat vision.
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It's the Shade. He could teleport in. Ralph and Sue were in Opal. Jack knight retired-so he's bored. He obviously had his brains scrambled, and he obviously got them back during The Starman book. He could use his shadow power to port in. plus I'm sure he feels he could stump the best detectives in a murder mystery by giving them red herrings.
The end.....
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Is there an Atom connection or would Shade use that to throw everyone off?
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He was a member of the injustice society and fought The Flash repeatedly. So he definitely has a JLA connection-and a JSA connection. Not many villains get to say that.
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It would be funny if it was a woman committing the murders. Perhaps an ex-lover of one of the heroes getting back at the other heroes' lovers.
I'll have to check the books and see if the gender is left ambiguous or not.
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Quote:
Dave said:
JSA is shit-awful fanfiction.
In a nutshell.
Hear, hear!
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Nice ideas, all of these. Honestly, I don't know who it is. Speculated a bit, but one thing to remember is the constant ability of writers to throw little things in the stories that totally alter it. Could be a hero. You know, the butler did it. Like, first thing is, no sign of forced entry. Maybe a friend came by or something.
But in the theory it is a villain, Shade sounds good, but I don't think they would have given the name right away. Story seems to be one where there is more that has yet to be uncovered. Each step, something new. First issue mentioned Dr. Light at the End. Second Issue discussed magic lobotomies. Third discussed a lot of lobotomies and had another dead chick. Soo... I am thinking, Identity Crisis might actually be something like a hero who used to be a bad guy. Or something like that.
Amazo kind of gets ruled out. On account of not having a real mind of his own. Still. Interesting observations.
Still think it's Snapper.
Words not violence, break the silence. Maybe.
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Looking at those earlier posts... Jack Drake looks like a strong possibility for one to go. Featured twice in the series. Same number of times as Atom's wife. And Batman's series has that thing coming along where Tim is going to eventually take back the mantle. This would be a place to do it. You know how it starts.
Never about story, always about commercialism and sales. Leading into other things. "Man, now I have to read Batman and see what happens to Tim."
Would be nice if they killed off Jimmy Olsen. Man, he is the weakest link. Sides, they are re-releasing Superman's Pal on TPB again.
Words not violence, break the silence. Maybe.
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Well, my thing is...if they kill of Jack Drake, then, the "Public I.D." modus operandi of the killer goes right out the window. Tim's identity is not public. Therefore, how would the killer know to target Jack Drake?
Still, then it would only cement the 'One-of-Us' theory of a hero gone bad....
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Quote:
Dave said:
http://whenwillthehurtingstop.blogspot.com/
Awesome.
Did anyone read this?
Its hilarious!
November 6th, 2012: Americas new Independence Day.
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Yeah, it was funny. Just, why was it just the first three or four pages, reprinted like seven or eight times down the page?
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I thought it was quite funny, but in all honesty, I was hoping the guy would do the whole book and not just the first few pages. Still... very humorous!
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Quote:
rex said:
Quote:
Dave said:
http://whenwillthehurtingstop.blogspot.com/
Awesome.
Did anyone read this?
Its hilarious!
Best review of the series to date. It makes you realise just how distasteful the subject matter of the series is. Women in fishnets getting beaten up, women getting strangled, the "Rape Comics" comment.
The repeated pages is a glitch. Sometimes its there, sometimes not.
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Oh, people realize it. It is either loved or hated. there is no in between.
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November 6th, 2012: Americas new Independence Day.
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November 6th, 2012: Americas new Independence Day.
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Quote:
Pig Iron said:
Oh, people realize it. It is either loved or hated. there is no in between.
I'm a bit of both. I quite like the premise, but really hate the fact that it is using rape to sell comics.
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They're not using rape to sell the books. They're using the fact that murders are going to involve the JLA and it's secrets. No one knew about the rape until they read issue two. That's not really using it to sell a book, now is it?
whomod said: I generally don't like it when people decide to play by the rules against people who don't play by the rules. It tends to put you immediately at a disadvantage and IMO is a sign of true weakness. This is true both in politics and on the internet." Our Friendly Neighborhood Ray-man said: "no, the doctor's right. besides, he has seniority."
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I think it just started as typical misogyny arguement.. the rape was an afterthought really...
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I also think Tim's Father has only an issue or two to live. Lois? Jimmy? No way! These two characters are too well ingrained into the Superman mythos...though I'm sure Perry scared the little shit right down to his his hairy red pubes! Heeheehee! I would almost bet money that the book will end with Jimmy being saved from whoever it is doing all of this. The Shade doesn't ring true to me though. I'm sure we've been given some clues but I'll be arsed if I can go back and look for them! The Firestorm theory seems intriguing. Who's doing the new book? Not the same guy doing ID crisis by any chance?
-----once over and twice twisted---------
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No. Dan Jolley is writing Firestorm, not Brad Meltzer.
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Quote:
thedoctor said:
They're not using rape to sell the books. They're using the fact that murders are going to involve the JLA and it's secrets. No one knew about the rape until they read issue two. That's not really using it to sell a book, now is it?
Yes it is, because people talk. The hype generated by the rape had certainly convinced some people to buy the series, started with issue 2.
I didn't really have a problem with the rape at first - I thought it was just an ugly characterisation of Dr Light. But the more I think about it, the more I object. Comics trade in fantasy. This is a fantasy rape. My own personal view is that rape like that should have no place in this medium.
Like I said, I wouldn't have been as bothered if it was Ralph. There is no fantasy for the straight superhero audience in a superhero getting raped by a man - it would have shown Dr Light's utter deprivity. But instead, a defenceless female character cops it. I don't think that's sending a good message, and is using a rape fantasy to sell a comic.
I'm hardly going to impose my view (even if I could) on someone's writing though: instead, I'll just protest in my own little way and not buy it.
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I thought you weren't buying it anyway, Dave.
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I don't see how your protest is valid since you wouldn't have bought it anyway. It's like me saying I'm going to boycott Rolls-Royce by not buying any of their $300,000+ cars. And, honestly, I find your stance very hypocritical. You yourself have been very vocal about moving comics beyond the cliche superhero standards and growing to feed all types of hungers demanded in the medium. Now, you're claiming that a comic isn't superheroey enough?  How is a fantasy murder or beating anymore acceptable than fantasy rape? And would you be opposed to a rape scene in a movie or a book? If comics are to grow, then you can't box them into a certain set of guidelines. It's been done before. Remember the Comics Code Authority? Quote:
Dave said:
Like I said, I wouldn't have been as bothered if it was Ralph. There is no fantasy for the straight superhero audience in a superhero getting raped by a man - it would have shown Dr Light's utter deprivity. But instead, a defenceless female character cops it. I don't think that's sending a good message, and is using a rape fantasy to sell a comic.
But what about the gay superhero audience? And Dr. Light raping a woman isn't enough deprivity for you? And did you ever think that her defenselessness is part of the overall meaning of the story? Especially when you consider that she was raped on the JLA satellite and killed inside her own apartment with higher security than Fort Knox.
Quote:
Dave said:
Quote:
thedoctor said:
They're not using rape to sell the books. They're using the fact that murders are going to involve the JLA and it's secrets. No one knew about the rape until they read issue two. That's not really using it to sell a book, now is it?
Yes it is, because people talk. The hype generated by the rape had certainly convinced some people to buy the series, started with issue 2.
Does that mean when everyone was talking about how the tires on Ford Explorers would wear out and explode on the road, causing wrecks, that Ford was using the faulty tires to sell more Explorers?
I've seen more people say they've dropped the book because of that scene than, "Hey! Sue got raped?! Man, I need to get me that!" As far as I know, DC never said anything about this scene before the book. I haven't seen anything about it from then since this issue hit the stands. Fans talk. They're no more using this scene to sell the series than they are letting unhappy fan buzz kill it. They just put it out there and let it go.
And just to kill any attempt at a flame war, I understand that it's your opinion. I just think some really good questions have been raised in your arguement, and I want to raise the temperature of the debate a bit so that we can roast smores later on. Also, I understand your well documented bias against superhero books in this forum and was weireded out by a slight about-face concerning this series. Besides, you'd do better off using your biases like I do and reserving them for minorities and women. 
whomod said: I generally don't like it when people decide to play by the rules against people who don't play by the rules. It tends to put you immediately at a disadvantage and IMO is a sign of true weakness. This is true both in politics and on the internet." Our Friendly Neighborhood Ray-man said: "no, the doctor's right. besides, he has seniority."
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Also keep in mind, Dave, which comics contain implied or explicit rape scenes:
Watchmen
Killing Joke (according to some people)
Authority
They weren't significant parts of the story and, granted, they were aimed at a mature audience, but they WERE mainstream superhero comics and available to most comic buyers like Identity Crisis. This is nothing new.
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Llance: I doubt Tim's dad will be a victim. He has no connection to the group of Leaguers involved and also since Tim is Robin this is pre War Games therefore Jack must survive it.
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ROBIN #132
Written by Bill Willingham
Art and cover by Damion Scott
Part 1 of the 4-part ROBIN/BATGIRL crossover “Fresh Blood,” featuring the return of artist Damion Scott! Robin is coping with crippling personal losses, and how he deals with these heartaches will send him in an unexpected direction…and into the path of the stone-fisted Batgirl!
On sale Nov 17 32 pages $2.25 US
BATGIRL #58
Written by Andersen Gabrych
Art and cover by Alé Garza & Jesse Delperdang
A new creative team debuts in Part 2 of the 4-part ROBIN/BATGIRL crossover “Fresh Blood!” In the aftermath of “War Games,” Cassandra teams up with Robin to pick up the pieces. Following the events of ROBIN #132, can these crimefighting teens stop the lethal blades of Nightwing’s archnemesis, Shrike?
On sale Nov 24 32 pages $2.50 US
IDENTITY CRISIS #6 (of 7)
Written by Brad Meltzer
Art by Rags Morales & Michael Bair
Cover by Michael Turner
The thrill-packed 7-issue miniseries by best-selling author Brad Meltzer and artists extraordinaire Rags Morales & Michael Bair builds to December’s unbelievable finale!
From the very start, he's been on the case and sifting through clues. No one knows better what it’s like to lose someone you love. He's the World’s Greatest Detective. Now it’s time for Batman to prove it.
On sale Nov 10 40 pages $3.95 US
I'd say it is possible, though I think Spoiler bites it in War Games and that may be the "loss" they are talking about.
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Quote:
Dave said:Like I said, I wouldn't have been as bothered if it was Ralph.
And that was the whole point, nobody would have cared if it was Ralph. I believe Meltzer chose Sue because he needed a very, very minor character related to the JLA to be the first victim (and, by extension, the one revealed to have been raped), which made Sue the perfect choice.
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Quote:
thedoctor said:
I don't see how your protest is valid since you wouldn't have bought it anyway. It's like me saying I'm going to boycott Rolls-Royce by not buying any of their $300,000+ cars.
And, honestly, I find your stance very hypocritical. You yourself have been very vocal about moving comics beyond the cliche superhero standards and growing to feed all types of hungers demanded in the medium. Now, you're claiming that a comic isn't superheroey enough? How is a fantasy murder or beating anymore acceptable than fantasy rape? And would you be opposed to a rape scene in a movie or a book? If comics are to grow, then you can't box them into a certain set of guidelines. It's been done before. Remember the Comics Code Authority?
Quote:
Dave said:
Like I said, I wouldn't have been as bothered if it was Ralph. There is no fantasy for the straight superhero audience in a superhero getting raped by a man - it would have shown Dr Light's utter deprivity. But instead, a defenceless female character cops it. I don't think that's sending a good message, and is using a rape fantasy to sell a comic.
But what about the gay superhero audience? And Dr. Light raping a woman isn't enough deprivity for you? And did you ever think that her defenselessness is part of the overall meaning of the story? Especially when you consider that she was raped on the JLA satellite and killed inside her own apartment with higher security than Fort Knox.
Quote:
Dave said:
Quote:
thedoctor said:
They're not using rape to sell the books. They're using the fact that murders are going to involve the JLA and it's secrets. No one knew about the rape until they read issue two. That's not really using it to sell a book, now is it?
Yes it is, because people talk. The hype generated by the rape had certainly convinced some people to buy the series, started with issue 2.
Does that mean when everyone was talking about how the tires on Ford Explorers would wear out and explode on the road, causing wrecks, that Ford was using the faulty tires to sell more Explorers?
I've seen more people say they've dropped the book because of that scene than, "Hey! Sue got raped?! Man, I need to get me that!" As far as I know, DC never said anything about this scene before the book. I haven't seen anything about it from then since this issue hit the stands. Fans talk. They're no more using this scene to sell the series than they are letting unhappy fan buzz kill it. They just put it out there and let it go.
And just to kill any attempt at a flame war, I understand that it's your opinion. I just think some really good questions have been raised in your arguement, and I want to raise the temperature of the debate a bit so that we can roast smores later on. Also, I understand your well documented bias against superhero books in this forum and was weireded out by a slight about-face concerning this series. Besides, you'd do better off using your biases like I do and reserving them for minorities and women.
1. I don't generally flame war, unless I'm in the mood to look silly.
2. I had intended to buy the tpb, scheduled for release in November.
3. I don't think superheroes should be more adult orientated. I think comics should be more adult orientated. I do however enjoy reading (some) adult orientated superhero books.
4. The only gay rape scene I've ever seen in comics was in the Auithority (back to that later). The point of this is that comics are a medium for fantasy. You read them and live a vicarious life of smacking up villains, having the strength to lift a car and fly, interacting with women in tight clothing with exaggerated sexuality, and dress up in tight spandex (well, maybe the last one is just mine). The audience is mostly (but not typically) straight and male. So the text provides fantasy escapism for straight males. And voila, we have a graphic rape scene.
5. DC couldn't in good taste promote this as "the book where Sue Dibny gets raped". They knwo their audience is on the internet and talks. I wouldn't have looked twice at this book if not for the internet hype. Overt promotion of the issue has nothing to do with the content.
The Women in Refridgerators crowd have a point. Its not always, but usually the female characters who get stuck with this in this medium. "Female characters in our fantasy realm are expendable" seems to be the editorial mandate. "Kill 'em graphically, to generate more readership interest amongst fanboys."
Really, I shouldn't be complaining: I am usually opposed ot censorship in any form, and thing people should be able to write and publish what they like. But this.... this seems to me to be using a graphic rape to sell a fantasy-orientated medium.
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Quote:
Snapman said:
Also keep in mind, Dave, which comics contain implied or explicit rape scenes:
Watchmen
Killing Joke (according to some people)
Authority
They weren't significant parts of the story and, granted, they were aimed at a mature audience, but they WERE mainstream superhero comics and available to most comic buyers like Identity Crisis. This is nothing new.
1. Killing Joke wasn't obvious, if indeed it occurred.
2. Authority was censored: the scenes with the Commander undoing his fly and then doing up his fly were removed.
3. And then there is Watchmen. There are a variety of excuses, I suppose: Watchmen did not have a graphic, prolonged rape scene in the same way as Dr Light's rape of Sue Dibney was prolonged; Watchmen was not really mainstream because it did not have DC's main characters in it - the main hook for teenaged readers; Watchmen has so many other redeeming features anyone is inclined to forgive Alan Moore for it. But yes, I concede, there was Watchmen.
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