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Mythology and folklore has always been a hobby of mine, and I hope to teach about it in college one day (I got the inspiration from a throwaway line in "Indiana Jones & The Last Crusade" - it's what Indy's father does.) I've done some research not only on the mythology itself, but on the history behind it - like historical figures who may have inspired the King Arthur or Robin Hood stories.
Naturally, the history is very different from the legends and the myths. But are myths more important than the true stories? Is it more important for people to hear about the true history of a hero as they really are, or the idealized icons who often serve as role models?
Discuss!
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Both in tandem. The reality is important so people know what happened. The myth is importent because it reflects on the ideologies of the society (what is good/evil, what are the common problems). No more trick questions.
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"I am convinced that this world is of no importance, and that the only people who care about dates are imbeciles and Spanish teachers." -- Jean Arp, 1921
"If Jesus came back and saw what people are doing in his name, he would never never stop throwing up." - Max von Sydow, "Hannah and Her Sisters"
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It's not a trick question.
"Well when I talk to people I don't have to worry about spelling." - wannabuyamonkey
"If Schumacher’s last effort was the final nail in the coffin then Year One would’ve been the crazy guy who stormed the graveyard, dug up the coffin and put a bullet through the franchise’s corpse just to make sure." -- From a review of Darren Aronofsky & Frank Miller's "Batman: Year One" script
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You can learn a lot from a true story! True stories show historical figures for who they really are: Warts and all! Myths show people as they could be without any flaws in their character and although quite motivating can never compare to a true story. What can be more inspiring then hearing about someone in the mass of humanity who conquered everything to come out on top? Kinda gives us all hope!
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Quote:
PrincessElisa said:Myths show people as they could be without any flaws in their character and although quite motivating can never compare to a true story.
Not necessarily. In many myths and legends, a hero often had a tragic flaw that proved to be his undoing, or ended up causing harm to others. For Sir Launcelot, it was his forbidden love for Queen Quenevere, King Arthur's wife. For many Greek heroes, it was stubbornness and pride. For El Cid, it was placing personal honor before all else - even the love of his life. Such character flaws are what make the myths so memorable.
Even in the Bible, the sins of the greatest and most righteous men aren't ignored - David's lust for Batsheba, which leads to him commiting adultery and murder, isn't glossed over at all in the Tanach (and neither is his punishment.)
"Well when I talk to people I don't have to worry about spelling." - wannabuyamonkey
"If Schumacher’s last effort was the final nail in the coffin then Year One would’ve been the crazy guy who stormed the graveyard, dug up the coffin and put a bullet through the franchise’s corpse just to make sure." -- From a review of Darren Aronofsky & Frank Miller's "Batman: Year One" script
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Quote:
Darknight613 said:
It's not a trick question.
Neither are as good alone as they are together. (here's to prove a certain someone right) The Great Dictator (splendid movie, I highly suggest it) is hilarious in and of itself, however the movie is also grim and haunting when you know the historical context of the film (holocaust). If it weren't for being made with the money of the bastardised, Münchhausen would be a fantasmical film. If it weren't based on reality and a giant scar on America's past, Roots would be stupid. That's why they show it in eighth grade AFTER teaching about American Slavery.
Old men, fear me! You will shatter under my ruthless apathetic assault!
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"I am convinced that this world is of no importance, and that the only people who care about dates are imbeciles and Spanish teachers." -- Jean Arp, 1921
"If Jesus came back and saw what people are doing in his name, he would never never stop throwing up." - Max von Sydow, "Hannah and Her Sisters"
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Quote:
Uschi said:
Neither are as good alone as they are together. (here's to prove a certain someone right) The Great Dictator (splendid movie, I highly suggest it) is hilarious in and of itself, however the movie is also grim and haunting when you know the historical context of the film (holocaust). If it weren't for being made with the money of the bastardised, Münchhausen would be a fantasmical film. If it weren't based on reality and a giant scar on America's past, Roots would be stupid. That's why they show it in eighth grade AFTER teaching about American Slavery.
Um...I think we're having two separate conversations here...
"Well when I talk to people I don't have to worry about spelling." - wannabuyamonkey
"If Schumacher’s last effort was the final nail in the coffin then Year One would’ve been the crazy guy who stormed the graveyard, dug up the coffin and put a bullet through the franchise’s corpse just to make sure." -- From a review of Darren Aronofsky & Frank Miller's "Batman: Year One" script
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Darknight613 said:
Um...I think we're having two separate conversations here...
Nope. Myths of the old days can be compared (in a reasonable way) to modern pop culture (not all of it, but some of it). A myth is just a story if you don't have the facts and the interesting history to make it real. What were knights, really? They were brutes. They were young men from German Tribes used to a society of Feuds utilized to expand land grabs and protect against invaders like the Nordics and the Huns. The myths and chivalrous code was made, in some ways, to give an example to these men on how to behave more civilized. There was nothing to stop these men from taking any woman they wanted, hardly anyone could fight against a man supplied by the King - so the idea of courtly love was introduced. The historical aspects of stories is what makes them important. I just used movie examples because I have a wider knowledge-base for them.
Old men, fear me! You will shatter under my ruthless apathetic assault!
Uschi - 2
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"I am convinced that this world is of no importance, and that the only people who care about dates are imbeciles and Spanish teachers." -- Jean Arp, 1921
"If Jesus came back and saw what people are doing in his name, he would never never stop throwing up." - Max von Sydow, "Hannah and Her Sisters"
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They were from youngest to oldest. One was in her 40s ,20s ,and 18. What they did was set up a place to live and offered travlers to spend the night. Since they looked human of course each one went in a seperate room to screw men usually in threes.
This is where it get weird. The women have a pussy with razor sharp teeth. When they have sex with the men the teeth bit off thier wang. Of course the men bleed to death. I don't remember if they just killed them or ate them.
As word of these women were going on three brothers over heard the story about the women. So they decided to take action. They first made false wangs out of wood. The brothers were at the same age as the women from youngest to oldest.
They traveled to seek these monsters to stop them once and for all. They soon got to the site where they were located at night. The three women of course let them in. As soon as the love making began that night they each took out the false wang and thrust it into thier pussy. Since being made of wood not flesh and blood. The teeth kept clamping down until all the teeth fell out.
In time the pussy was gumless mess with little bleeding. In the morning the women were exhausted and sleeping. The deed was done. Before the brothers left the edlest one put a curse on each of the women.
He plucked threes hairs from his head. He put each hair above the womens pussy then the brothers left. In a while later the women woke up felt itching and started to scratch thier pussy. When they looked down they soon discovered each one had patch of curly black hair the same type as the eldest of the brothers the end.
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In the case of King Arthur I would say the myth is more important. From what I've read there is very little knowledge about the "real" Arthur. So there isn't much of a story really. It's the bits that have been invented that make the legend. Would there have been any movies without the myth?
Fair play!
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I can't think of a single figure, for whom this debate is applicable, who truly matters in a historical sense. Not King Arthur, not Johnny Appleseed, and sure as heck not no dang Robin Hood.
Should we teach the facts behind the legends? Sure, to those who care. But do the facts ever supersede the legend in importance? Nope.
There's a reason the legends have become bigger than the men who inspired them, IMO.
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Quote:
Uschi said:
Quote:
Darknight613 said:
Um...I think we're having two separate conversations here...
Nope. Myths of the old days can be compared (in a reasonable way) to modern pop culture (not all of it, but some of it). A myth is just a story if you don't have the facts and the interesting history to make it real. What were knights, really? They were brutes. They were young men from German Tribes used to a society of Feuds utilized to expand land grabs and protect against invaders like the Nordics and the Huns. The myths and chivalrous code was made, in some ways, to give an example to these men on how to behave more civilized. There was nothing to stop these men from taking any woman they wanted, hardly anyone could fight against a man supplied by the King - so the idea of courtly love was introduced. The historical aspects of stories is what makes them important. I just used movie examples because I have a wider knowledge-base for them.
It wasn't using modern pop culture that I was questioning. Merely the logic you were applying, which took me a few tried to figure out.
"Well when I talk to people I don't have to worry about spelling." - wannabuyamonkey
"If Schumacher’s last effort was the final nail in the coffin then Year One would’ve been the crazy guy who stormed the graveyard, dug up the coffin and put a bullet through the franchise’s corpse just to make sure." -- From a review of Darren Aronofsky & Frank Miller's "Batman: Year One" script
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Quote:
Pariah said:
Go troll someone else's thread.
"Well when I talk to people I don't have to worry about spelling." - wannabuyamonkey
"If Schumacher’s last effort was the final nail in the coffin then Year One would’ve been the crazy guy who stormed the graveyard, dug up the coffin and put a bullet through the franchise’s corpse just to make sure." -- From a review of Darren Aronofsky & Frank Miller's "Batman: Year One" script
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The title of this thread is "Myths". So I posted one.
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Quote:
Pariah said:
The title of this thread is "Myths". So I posted one.
It kinda reminded me of a bit in H.P.Lovecraft: the comic.
Old men, fear me! You will shatter under my ruthless apathetic assault!
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"I am convinced that this world is of no importance, and that the only people who care about dates are imbeciles and Spanish teachers." -- Jean Arp, 1921
"If Jesus came back and saw what people are doing in his name, he would never never stop throwing up." - Max von Sydow, "Hannah and Her Sisters"
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AGW said:
I can't think of a single figure, for whom this debate is applicable, who truly matters in a historical sense. Not King Arthur, not Johnny Appleseed, and sure as heck not no dang Robin Hood.
Should we teach the facts behind the legends? Sure, to those who care. But do the facts ever supersede the legend in importance? Nope.
There's a reason the legends have become bigger than the men who inspired them, IMO.
Sure the legends supersede the facts, thats sort of the point. The legends are less about the heroic figure and more a representation of the fears and desires of the culture at the time. It is the historical context of the legends and myths that, in my opinion, make the myths and legends great. Otherwise they're just outdated stories that I find it hard to identify with.
Old men, fear me! You will shatter under my ruthless apathetic assault!
Uschi - 2
Old Men - 0
"I am convinced that this world is of no importance, and that the only people who care about dates are imbeciles and Spanish teachers." -- Jean Arp, 1921
"If Jesus came back and saw what people are doing in his name, he would never never stop throwing up." - Max von Sydow, "Hannah and Her Sisters"
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Oedipus. Tyler Durden.
Both legends.
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1st off, i want to say that you take a good tack in equally studying both sides of the issue you present here.
Myths are obviously more inspiring. The problem of course is they're for the most part, fantasy.
I tend to side with reality. I don't want to sidetrack into politics as I'm sure you'll absolutely hate that, but this topic piqued my interest as I often wonder just how much of things we consider "history" may in fact be mythmaking (or propaganda) for the sake of inspiration and morale.
And as a story gets told and re-told it can in fact turn to reality (in the short term). I'm sure snopes.com is chock full of things people take as real actually being urban legends or just flat out myths.
So nah, if it came to a choice between being soberly told a fact or being told an inspiring story based on a bit of truth , then i'd rather be informed than inspired.
Plus I think some extraordinary people can inspire without embellishment. It's the mediocre ones who are unable.
Everything is funny as long as it is happening to somebody else. --Will Rogers
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I don't think anybody could have predicted that these people would .. try to use an airplane as a missile, a hijacked airplane as a missile. - Condoleeza Rice
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Ah yes, like Johannas Kepler or Chaplin, two personal favorites of mine.
I just thought of this as a good example of what point I tried to make: Batman. He's a representation of most of what we want in people/men: stregnth, honor, justice, morality, etc. Following the myth norms, he has some weaknesses (emotion, friends/family). The problems he faces and the people he fights represent the problems we deal with in real life.
Old men, fear me! You will shatter under my ruthless apathetic assault!
Uschi - 2
Old Men - 0
"I am convinced that this world is of no importance, and that the only people who care about dates are imbeciles and Spanish teachers." -- Jean Arp, 1921
"If Jesus came back and saw what people are doing in his name, he would never never stop throwing up." - Max von Sydow, "Hannah and Her Sisters"
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