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Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 33,919
devil-lovin' Bat-Man 15000+ posts
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devil-lovin' Bat-Man 15000+ posts
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 33,919 |
No, you're not. You see blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah I just proved you wrong.
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Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 33,919
devil-lovin' Bat-Man 15000+ posts
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devil-lovin' Bat-Man 15000+ posts
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 33,919 |
Anyone else going at it tonight? Anyone? Come on, bitches. Come on. Come to daddy.
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 146
I'm Mxy! 100+ posts
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I'm Mxy! 100+ posts
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 146 |
I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! 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I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy!I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! I'm Mxy! 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Im Not Mister Mxyzptlk said:
Ok, you're Mxy.
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Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 24,593
Timelord. Drunkard. 15000+ posts
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Timelord. Drunkard. 15000+ posts
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 24,593 |
Which is what I've been saying all along. You can't squeeze an entire concept into popular culture: it doesn't retain that much. There's one bit of information that everyone will know, and in this case, that information is that the JLA is a group of known superheroes. That's what the passing familiarity you speak of is composed of. Is it? Or do they just know that it's a group of superheroes. Like X-Men you can pretty much pick and choose who you want in the film when it comes to the general public. It's only the 'fans' who are going to bitch when someone is left out. Besides, if the Flash is so pop culture, don't you just need him to be the 'known superhero' to get the public attention to draw them into a movie with Hawkman and Plastic Man? Of course cartoons help characters get into pop culture, but once they're firmly planted there, that's where they'll stay. Look at Popeye: what's that fucker done for the past two decades? Kids today have never seen a Popeye cartoon, yet they're probably aware of the character because he's part of pop culture. You have to still maintain some bit of popularity in order to stay in pop culture. Otherwise, it just becomes an obscure reference. Star Wars is known to the public because it is still shown and watched on TV pretty regularly. Popeye is know to kids today because his cartoons are still being shown. Hell, I was watching Popeye, Tom & Jerry, and other cartoons that hadn't been in new cartoons for a least twenty years. They're known because they're still being shown to a mass audience. It's a fact that most people go into movies knowing nothing or really little about them. Most people don't watch trailers or read reviews. They show up at the theatre, look around, "hey, that looks scary"/"hey, that looks funny"/"hey, that's Alf there", buy pop corn, get in. Word of mouth can get you to go see a specific movie, but in general it consists of nothing but "hey, you know that talking car movie? it's really good." I don't know how they do it in Chile, but that's not how it works here. In a time when it's just as easy to rent or buy DVD's and watch a movie in your home with your own surround sound system, people go to the movies because they're intrigued by the trailers and marketing campaign or what their friends tell them about a movie. Trailers sell movies. Put enough special effects and catchy one-liners in a trailer; and the audience will be talking about it for weeks, building up their own anticipation for the movie. The movie studio defines what the movie is to the public. It's only the people who are really in the know (i.e. the fans) who are turned off when they don't see exactly what they want. Look at The League of Extraordinary Gentlemen. Alan Moore didn't have Tom Sawyer or Dorian Grey in his book. Mina wasn't a vampire. Yet, that's how the movie went down, and the general public loved it. These characters had never been written together by their original authors or in the way they were. The movie studio defined to the public what LXG was, and they can do the same to JLA. If the general public can accept a grown up Tom Sawyer who works for a CIA like agency, or a Captain Nemo who is Indian, they can accept a JLA without Superman and Batman. Anyway, doesn't your own argument that people don't know much about the movies they see mean they'd be more accepting of anything they're shown as long as it looks entertaining? This is really simple. "Hit" is a technical term that indicates how a movie did on its initial theatrical run. In this case, the movie surpassed its budget, but not a by too much. I think a nasty cunt in this forum once told me a movie has to DOUBLE it's budget to be considered a hit, and that seems like an accurate definition. cost about $10 million. US box office alone was over $24 million. By your own definition, it was a hit.
whomod said: I generally don't like it when people decide to play by the rules against people who don't play by the rules. It tends to put you immediately at a disadvantage and IMO is a sign of true weakness. This is true both in politics and on the internet." Our Friendly Neighborhood Ray-man said: "no, the doctor's right. besides, he has seniority."
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Joined: Jun 2002
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Timelord. Drunkard. 15000+ posts
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Timelord. Drunkard. 15000+ posts
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 24,593 |
Believe it or not, childhood cartoons aren't as important to "normal" people as they are to us geeks. Chances are that if you ask someone who watched Superfriends as a kid who Apache Chief is, they'll have no idea. I used to watch the fucking Carebears, I'm told, but I don't remember shit about, except that they're bears and they love me. Everyone knows Scooby Doo, but not just because they watched him as kids. He's another pop culture icon they would know even if they had never seen an episode. Apache Chief, not so much. I know many non-geeks who remember watching Superfriends and Scooby Doo among other cartoons and TV shows. You don't just forget your childhood all together. Yeah, you don't remember all of it, but you don't chunk all of it out of your brain either. What they expect isn't seeing specifically Spider-Man or even Superman, but simply "known superheroes". Make a JLA movie with Birdman, Spawn and Robocop and it'll be okay with most people. Use actual JLA members nobody knows, and they'll feel cheated. I'm still not buying that the JLA is only thought of by the public as known superheroes. They could just as easily think that it's a bunch of superheroes period and only fill in the ones they can think of if asked to name the members.
whomod said: I generally don't like it when people decide to play by the rules against people who don't play by the rules. It tends to put you immediately at a disadvantage and IMO is a sign of true weakness. This is true both in politics and on the internet." Our Friendly Neighborhood Ray-man said: "no, the doctor's right. besides, he has seniority."
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Joined: May 2005
Posts: 12,912
Kneel! 10000+ posts
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Kneel! 10000+ posts
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 12,912 |
I just asked my pops if he would watch a justice league movie that didnt have batman and superman in it. His response: "Hell no."
big_pimp_tim-made it cool to roll in the first damn place! Mon Jun 11 2007 09:27 PM- harley finally rolled with me "I'm working with him...he's young but, there is much potential. He can apprentice with me and then he's yours for final training. He will remember the face of his father... Some day, Knutreturns just may be the greatest of us all...."-THE bastard
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Joined: May 2003
Posts: 43,951 Likes: 6
Officially "too old for this shit" 15000+ posts
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Officially "too old for this shit" 15000+ posts
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 43,951 Likes: 6 |
The bottom line is that the general public thinks of the JLA as the Super Friends: Superman, Batman, Robin, Aquaman,and Wonder Woman, plus maybe Flash and Green Lantern.
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Joined: Dec 2002
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fudge 4000+ posts
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fudge 4000+ posts
Joined: Dec 2002
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Well, I've previously (some years ago) expressed my displeasure with the Justice League live action seres. It wasn't the best, in fact it was the worst thing I've ever had the displeasure of seeing.
But then again, I think it was pretty low budget. Again, a movie with a proper budget, a proper cast (I agree that Bale and Routh wouldn't be the right choice) it could be really great.
Yes, I agree that Bale and Routh wouldn't be the right choices for Batman and Superman. Bale would overshadow all of them with Routh close behind.
Justice League needs Superman and Batman, definitely, but with other actors. It shouldn't really be that hard. I think I saw one of those Fan trailers some time ago where they had a pretty decent Batman and a good Superman.
It could work.
 Racks be to MisterJLA
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Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 33,919
devil-lovin' Bat-Man 15000+ posts
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devil-lovin' Bat-Man 15000+ posts
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 33,919 |
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Joined: May 2003
Posts: 43,951 Likes: 6
Officially "too old for this shit" 15000+ posts
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Officially "too old for this shit" 15000+ posts
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 43,951 Likes: 6 |
To me, a Justice League movie should be done as a sequel/reboot from the last Superman film. You could call it "Superman: the Justice League."
You have Routh's Superman invited to join the JLA to stop some sort of cosmic menace (Darkseid, Doomsday, BRAINIAC) and use that plot to introduce WW, Flash, GL, etc., to movie audiences At the end, Superman says (echoing Superman 2) he's honored to be a reserve member but that they don't need him: they can stand on their own (subtle hint to the audience too that way). Bale's Batman could cameo at the end, maybe an epilogue where they show him getting an invite to join and saying "too busy".
This would both set up a JLA franchise to stand on its own without Superman and Batman AND give us a chance to see a Superman movie with a real supervillain.
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Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 33,919
devil-lovin' Bat-Man 15000+ posts
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devil-lovin' Bat-Man 15000+ posts
Joined: Dec 2000
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Yes. Besides, if the Flash is so pop culture, don't you just need him to be the 'known superhero' to get the public attention to draw them into a movie with Hawkman and Plastic Man? I think you need more than just one known superhero. They could get away with five big ones and two obscure choices, I think. You have to still maintain some bit of popularity in order to stay in pop culture. Otherwise, it just becomes an obscure reference. Star Wars is known to the public because it is still shown and watched on TV pretty regularly. Popeye is know to kids today because his cartoons are still being shown. Hell, I was watching Popeye, Tom & Jerry, and other cartoons that hadn't been in new cartoons for a least twenty years. They're known because they're still being shown to a mass audience. I watched Popeye as a kid too, but they haven't shown his cartoons in TV for a long time, or at least they haven't down here. I know this because I'm working at a local TV station and when the dubbing of new Cartoon Network series was delayed, they had to show that awful "The New Adventures of Popeye" cartoon for a month. The guy in charge of kids programation sent everyone a memo complaining about the fact that the station picked such an old cartoon, stating (with figures and all) that the character hasn't been in TV for at least 15 years. I like to bring up the Popeye incident with people to make fun of the limited budget we have at the TV station. I asked my little sister who Popeye was (hoping to get some laughs when she said she didn't know), but she said "it's the sailor who eats spinach". How did she know that? Probably because she heard or saw a reference to the character outside TV. Why would anyone reference a character that hasn't been on TV for such a long time? Because he's part of pop culture. I don't know how they do it in Chile, but that's not how it works here. In a time when it's just as easy to rent or buy DVD's and watch a movie in your home with your own surround sound system, people go to the movies because they're intrigued by the trailers and marketing campaign or what their friends tell them about a movie. Trailers sell movies. Put enough special effects and catchy one-liners in a trailer; and the audience will be talking about it for weeks, building up their own anticipation for the movie. I swear I'm not just talking out of my ass. I had to read studios about all this for class, and guess in which country they were conducted. Most people, when asked, state that they generally know very little about a movie before they go see it. Some simply show up at the theatre for a good night out and see what looks good (it's like going to a restaurant: you don't anticipate the menu for weeks), and others go because of positive word of mouth. "My buddy Joe told me it was good." "Do you like horror movies?" "Oh, it's a horror movie?" Of all types of a trailers, the most effective ones are those stupid 20 second teasers they show on TV in the middle of American Idol and shit, which sell you a simple concept and an atmosphere. Needless to say, if the impression that teaser gave you happens to be incorrect, the public gets mad and the movie bombs. That's what happened with (I think) "Primeval", which looked like a serial killer movie and turned out to be about a crocodrile. The movie studio defines what the movie is to the public. It's only the people who are really in the know (i.e. the fans) who are turned off when they don't see exactly what they want. Look at The League of Extraordinary Gentlemen. Alan Moore didn't have Tom Sawyer or Dorian Grey in his book. Mina wasn't a vampire. Yet, that's how the movie went down, and the general public loved it. These characters had never been written together by their original authors or in the way they were. The movie studio defined to the public what LXG was, and they can do the same to JLA. If the general public can accept a grown up Tom Sawyer who works for a CIA like agency, or a Captain Nemo who is Indian, they can accept a JLA without Superman and Batman. LoEG isn't a known concept, so they can treat it however they like. People would have only been upset if Tom Sawyer was Indian and Dr. Jekyll turned invisible. Anyway, doesn't your own argument that people don't know much about the movies they see mean they'd be more accepting of anything they're shown as long as it looks entertaining? No, because knowing little doesn't translate into expecting little. It means that they're expecting that one bit of information they're aware of to be 100% accurate. If that wasn't the case, you could market a dense psychological drama with pictures of naked girls, use a picture of a pair of breasts in the poster, name it "BRITNEY SPEARS GETS NAKED" and it'd be a hit. It would have a strong opening weekend, but word of mouth would kill it. From Dusk Til Dawn cost about $10 million. US box office alone was over $24 million. By your own definition, it was a hit. Not according to Box Office Mojo: it says the production budget was $19 million.
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Ok, heres another example using a recent "fanboy" movie!
I know a lot of people who went to see The Transformers movie who:
Never owned a Transformers toy
Never watched Transformers cartoons
Never read Transformers comics
Didnt know Optimus Prime from Bumblebee
Why did they go and watch it?
Cause of the advertising and marketing!
Thats exactly why a JLA movie does not need a single recognisable character for Joe Public.
Comic geeks want the big guys, but know the smaller guys, and if that turns them off of the movie, then sorry, they are cunts.
Why are they cunts?
Well, the movie could be the greatest superhero movie since X2, without a single "big" name in it, just as a movie featuring the big seven, with Bale & Routh, might very well be the biggest turkey since Roger Cormans FF!
Who gives a shit which members are in it as long as its a kick arse movie!
The team is called the Justice League, not the Justice Seven!
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Ok, heres another example using a recent "fanboy" movie!
I know a lot of people who went to see The Transformers movie who:
Never owned a Transformers toy
Never watched Transformers cartoons
Never read Transformers comics
Didnt know Optimus Prime from Bumblebee
Why did they go and watch it?
Cause of the advertising and marketing!
Thats exactly why a JLA movie does not need a single recognisable character for Joe Public.
Comic geeks want the big guys, but know the smaller guys, and if that turns them off of the movie, then sorry, they are cunts.
Why are they cunts?
Well, the movie could be the greatest superhero movie since X2, without a single "big" name in it, just as a movie featuring the big seven, with Bale & Routh, might very well be the biggest turkey since Roger Cormans FF!
Who gives a shit which members are in it as long as its a kick arse movie!
The team is called the Justice League, not the Justice Seven!
pretty much.
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I know many non-geeks who remember watching Superfriends and Scooby Doo among other cartoons and TV shows. You don't just forget your childhood all together. Yeah, you don't remember all of it, but you don't chunk all of it out of your brain either. Yeah, but they probably also remember watching Tom & Jerry and Danger Mouse and He-Man and The Banana Splits and Atom And so on and so on. Kids watch an awful lot of cartoons, most in passing. Unless they became fans of one of those shows, they couldn't possibly remember the details of each of them. They'll still be aware of Superman and Tom & Jerry and He-Man, because they're part of guess what culture. Again: Apache Chief... not so much. I'm still not buying that the JLA is only thought of by the public as known superheroes. They could just as easily think that it's a bunch of superheroes period and only fill in the ones they can think of if asked to name the members. The use of the term I've come across the most, is people referencing the JLA almost as a technical definition for when known superheroes get together. A group of superheroes is a superhero group, a group of known superheroes is a Justice League.
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Anyone else going at it tonight? Anyone? Come on, bitches. Come on. Come to daddy. so you can continue disproving your own arguments.
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Ok, heres another example using a recent "fanboy" movie!
I know a lot of people who went to see The Transformers movie who:
Never owned a Transformers toy
Never watched Transformers cartoons
Never read Transformers comics
Didnt know Optimus Prime from Bumblebee And yet they were aware of the Transformers, weren't they? Why did they go and watch it?
Cause of the advertising and marketing! Statistically, that wouldn't be the case with most people. Word of mouth is stronger than any ad campaign. Proof of that are the many blockbusters that flop. Thats exactly why a JLA movie does not need a single recognisable character for Joe Public.
Comic geeks want the big guys, but know the smaller guys, and if that turns them off of the movie, then sorry, they are cunts. I don't think it'd turn off comic geeks; in fact, seeing someone as obscure as Black Lightning on screen might make them feel validated. However, comic geeks are a very, very, veeeeery limited audience. Movies made specifically for comic geeks go straight to DVD. Well, the movie could be the greatest superhero movie since X2, without a single "big" name in it, just as a movie featuring the big seven, with Bale & Routh, might very well be the biggest turkey since Roger Cormans FF! I don't see the logic in that statement. Who gives a shit which members are in it as long as its a kick arse movie! The general audience. How many "kick arse movies" do you know that aren't properly recognized, as they should? The team is called the Justice League, not the Justice Seven!
Unfortunately, as I've explained repeatedly, "Justice League" isn't merely a team name, it's also a popular concept. If the movie was called "Justice Seven" you could have whoever you want in it.
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so you can continue disproving your own arguments. :00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 No hard feelings, Grimmers. 
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Ok, heres another example using a recent "fanboy" movie!
I know a lot of people who went to see The Transformers movie who:
Never owned a Transformers toy
Never watched Transformers cartoons
Never read Transformers comics
Didnt know Optimus Prime from Bumblebee And yet they were aware of the Transformers, weren't they? Why did they go and watch it?
Cause of the advertising and marketing! Statistically, that wouldn't be the case with most people. Word of mouth is stronger than any ad campaign. Proof of that are the many blockbusters that flop. Thats exactly why a JLA movie does not need a single recognisable character for Joe Public.
Comic geeks want the big guys, but know the smaller guys, and if that turns them off of the movie, then sorry, they are cunts. I don't think it'd turn off comic geeks; in fact, seeing someone as obscure as Black Lightning on screen might make them feel validated. However, comic geeks are a very, very, veeeeery limited audience. Movies made specifically for comic geeks go straight to DVD. Well, the movie could be the greatest superhero movie since X2, without a single "big" name in it, just as a movie featuring the big seven, with Bale & Routh, might very well be the biggest turkey since Roger Cormans FF! I don't see the logic in that statement. Who gives a shit which members are in it as long as its a kick arse movie! The general audience. How many "kick arse movies" do you know that aren't properly recognized, as they should? The team is called the Justice League, not the Justice Seven!
Unfortunately, as I've explained repeatedly, "Justice League" isn't merely a team name, it's also a popular concept. If the movie was called "Justice Seven" you could have whoever you want in it. And as I said they had heard of Transformers but knew nothing about the characters, but they went and saw it. They might very well have heard of JLA, but know nothing of the characters......betting is they would see that too! As for why you cant understand that a fanboy is losing out on a great film purely based on the characters, yet is willing to see a shit film just cause Batman & Superman is in it, is just you arguing for arguments sake! And no, word of mouth is nowhere near as big a seller as a good ad campaign! The people I know who went and saw it, went because they saw ad for it every half an hour on tv and thought a movie featuring big effects and bigger robots looked cool! The rest of the stuff you said didnt actually make any sense, so I cant comment on those snippets, plus as Grimm said, much of what you say is contradictory!
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I'm not sure the Transformers movie is a good example in any event . Every ad I saw made sure to mention it was "From Executive Producer Stephen Spielberg."
I think his name was as much a draw as the cartoons, toys, etc.
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And as I said they had heard of Transformers but knew nothing about the characters, but they went and saw it.
They might very well have heard of JLA, but know nothing of the characters......betting is they would see that too! Right, they didn't know Optimus Prime and the others, but I'm sure they knew the basic concept of the Transformers: cars that transform into robots. It's not like they were aware of nothing but the word "Transformers", were they? In that case, that was the basic concept the filmmakers needed to be faithful to, and they were. In the case of the JLA, the basic concept is the one I've repeated 20 times. Not following that concept would be like making a Transformers movie about rockets that transform into ninjas. Even your friends who have never seen or read any Transformers products would find that strange. As for why you cant understand that a fanboy is losing out on a great film purely based on the characters, yet is willing to see a shit film just cause Batman & Superman is in it, is just you arguing for arguments sake! Whu? I just clarified in my last post that I don't think fanboys would dislike a movie with minor characters... everyone else would. Also, I've never said a movie with Superman and The Bat-Man would be a "shit film"... I think it has as many chances of being a great film as a movie without the Big 7. The difference is that one has the chance to be a hit, the other one doesn't. And no, word of mouth is nowhere near as big a seller as a good ad campaign!
The people I know who went and saw it, went because they saw ad for it every half an hour on tv and thought a movie featuring big effects and bigger robots looked cool! Again, that may be true in the case of 100 people you know, but statistically speaking speaking things work differently. The rest of the stuff you said didnt actually make any sense, so I cant comment on those snippets, plus as Grimm said, much of what you say is contradictory! Please point out the bits that don't make sense and I'll do my best to explain them again. Seriously.
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The bottom line is that the general public thinks of the JLA as the Super Friends: Superman, Batman, Robin, Aquaman,and Wonder Woman, plus maybe Flash and Green Lantern. Jesus Christmas, YES!!! You are exactly right. And, you don't know how badly it hurts me to type that. Or maybe you do. Either way, you've hit the nail on the head. This mysteriously vague "general public" that is continually mentioned in this thread, the ones that have never heard of the Justice League or the Big Seven or whatever (as if a large grouping of people like that truly exist these days in a world of constant information), will naturally draw from the only true exposure they've had to the concept. And, it's either going to be the fucking Super Friends (the Big Seven plus some) or the recent Cartoon Network Justice League/Unlimited series (the Big Seven plus some). In the end, the math is still the same: The Justice League = The Big Seven (plus some)...
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so you can continue disproving your own arguments. :00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 No hard feelings, Grimmers. none at all. you're a smart kid, and a damn good writer, and I enjoy talking to you online. but your arguments are very poor and self-deflating here.
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And as I said they had heard of Transformers but knew nothing about the characters, but they went and saw it.
They might very well have heard of JLA, but know nothing of the characters......betting is they would see that too! Right, they didn't know Optimus Prime and the others, but I'm sure they knew the basic concept of the Transformers: cars that transform into robots. It's not like they were aware of nothing but the word "Transformers", were they? In that case, that was the basic concept the filmmakers needed to be faithful to, and they were. In the case of the JLA, the basic concept is the one I've repeated 20 times. Not following that concept would be like making a Transformers movie about rockets that transform into ninjas. Even your friends who have never seen or read any Transformers products would find that strange. As for why you cant understand that a fanboy is losing out on a great film purely based on the characters, yet is willing to see a shit film just cause Batman & Superman is in it, is just you arguing for arguments sake! Whu? I just clarified in my last post that I don't think fanboys would dislike a movie with minor characters... everyone else would. Also, I've never said a movie with Superman and The Bat-Man would be a "shit film"... I think it has as many chances of being a great film as a movie without the Big 7. The difference is that one has the chance to be a hit, the other one doesn't. And no, word of mouth is nowhere near as big a seller as a good ad campaign!
The people I know who went and saw it, went because they saw ad for it every half an hour on tv and thought a movie featuring big effects and bigger robots looked cool! Again, that may be true in the case of 100 people you know, but statistically speaking speaking things work differently. The rest of the stuff you said didnt actually make any sense, so I cant comment on those snippets, plus as Grimm said, much of what you say is contradictory! Have you actually read the rest of this thread? Ya know, the thread where the fan boys are saying its gonna be a shit film without them? By that assumption, they think its naturally gonna be a great movie with them. This is where your arguments end up contradictory. The argument me and Grimm have had with Pro, is that it does not have to have Batman etc, and we are saying thats just fan boy wank material, and he says it will be shit without them and wont be JLA. You then say Grimm is talking shit because he thinks a film will survive without them, then say fanboys will be happy to see the lesser characters..........err, thats what me and Grimm have been saying! As for your thing about word of mouth.......you show me those statistics. Cause Hollywood sure hasnt seen those statistics, cause if they had, they would not spend so much on their advertising budgets! Word of mouth might work in Chile, but the rest of the world is sold on a good advertising campaign. Pretty much everyone watches tv, or reads newspapers & magazines or goes to the cinema! Please point out the bits that don't make sense and I'll do my best to explain them again. Seriously.
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I asked my cousin if she would watch a justice league movie withouth batman and superman in it. Her response was also a "hell no"
big_pimp_tim-made it cool to roll in the first damn place! Mon Jun 11 2007 09:27 PM- harley finally rolled with me "I'm working with him...he's young but, there is much potential. He can apprentice with me and then he's yours for final training. He will remember the face of his father... Some day, Knutreturns just may be the greatest of us all...."-THE bastard
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You shouldna asked her when you was having sex with her!
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You shouldna asked her when you was having sex with her! no nowie. it was my other cousin. wait... 
big_pimp_tim-made it cool to roll in the first damn place! Mon Jun 11 2007 09:27 PM- harley finally rolled with me "I'm working with him...he's young but, there is much potential. He can apprentice with me and then he's yours for final training. He will remember the face of his father... Some day, Knutreturns just may be the greatest of us all...."-THE bastard
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big_pimp_tim-made it cool to roll in the first damn place! Mon Jun 11 2007 09:27 PM- harley finally rolled with me "I'm working with him...he's young but, there is much potential. He can apprentice with me and then he's yours for final training. He will remember the face of his father... Some day, Knutreturns just may be the greatest of us all...."-THE bastard
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Plastic Man stole his lighter again.
whomod said: I generally don't like it when people decide to play by the rules against people who don't play by the rules. It tends to put you immediately at a disadvantage and IMO is a sign of true weakness. This is true both in politics and on the internet." Our Friendly Neighborhood Ray-man said: "no, the doctor's right. besides, he has seniority."
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And I think he may be rubbing his junk on Hal.
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none at all. you're a smart kid, and a damn good writer, and I enjoy talking to you online. but your arguments are very poor and self-deflating here. Again, could you please point out the contradictory bits? No offense, honestly, but vaguely stating that my arguments are self-deflating, in a general sense, doesn't count as a counter-argument. If you can't counter my points, you guys should start wondering if, maybe, you know, just maybe, there might be a remote posibility that I'm right...
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Have you actually read the rest of this thread?
Ya know, the thread where the fan boys are saying its gonna be a shit film without them? Maybe, but I don't think that's indicative of the general geek-response. Fanboy opinions depend on very subjective stuff. For example, everyone hated the Transformers movie before it came out, because of how the characters looked. After it came out, everyone loved it again. In the case of the JLA, I think all they need to do is give a obscure character a chance to shine onscreen, and every geek out there will get chills down their spine. By that assumption, they think its naturally gonna be a great movie with them.
This is where your arguments end up contradictory. At what point, in which post, or even in which page of this thread, did ever write or even suggest that the movie would be great without minor characters? I'm not talking about the quality of the film here: I think it's silly to judge that based on the roster! I'm talking about the response it's gonna get, which is an entirely different subject. I love many movies everyone hates. Is that the whole contradictory part of my argument? Something I never said? Or is there anything else? The argument me and Grimm have had with Pro, is that it does not have to have Batman etc, and we are saying thats just fan boy wank material, and he says it will be shit without them and wont be JLA. Then I disagree with Pro in that matter. :0 You then say Grimm is talking shit because he thinks a film will survive without them, then say fanboys will be happy to see the lesser characters..........err, thats what me and Grimm have been saying! First of all, I don't think Grimm is talking shit. I don't think you're talking shit either. You're free to think there are huge turds coming out of my mouth, but I respect your opinion. Even if you're wrong. Secondly, for the third time, a mainstream film can't survive only on fanboy response, because that's an incredibly limited part of the audience. Whether the fanboys like it or not is practically irrelevant to what I'm arguing. As for your thing about word of mouth.......you show me those statistics.
Cause Hollywood sure hasnt seen those statistics, cause if they had, they would not spend so much on their advertising budgets! The whole film industry is based on word of mouth. A movie that gets a good response from the audience, no matter how great the ad campaign may be, will never be a hit. On the other hand, a movie with a limited release (like Borat, for example) or a poor ad campaign, can become a hit if the audience response is positive. Why does this happen? How does the guy who liked the movie get other people to watch it? Does he put a billboard on top of his house saying "I LIKED THE MOVIE"? Does he rent ad space in a newspaper? Critics do something similar, but then again there are hundreds of cases of movies the critics loved and the audience hated. How does it happen, then? Does the guy telepathically inform everyone around him that the movie is good? No, he says "Hey, that's a good movie". You know, we're all used to bullshitting each other when we debate here (after all, this is a message board), but I'm not making any of this up on the spot. I don't know this shit because I'm smarter than anyone, I know it because I had to take a fucking test about it. But hey, what the hell, I'll Google "word of mouth stats" if that's what you want me to do. Here's a random link from the first page: Top 11 Stats on Word of Mouth1) 67% of all consumer decisions are primarily influenced by word of mouth 2) 1 out of every 7 social conversations are word of mouth based 3) Only 3.4% of face to face word of mouth conversations are stimulated by a marketing organization's promotional efforts 4) 90% of customers identify word of mouth as the best, most reliable and trustworthy source about ideas and information on products and services 5) 44% of consumers claim to avoid buying products that overwhelm them with advertising 6) Where does word of mouth happen? Answer: Everywhere. 7) On product recommendations, 90% trust their spouse and 65% trust their friends, however only 27% trust manufacturers, 14% trust advertisers and 8% trust celebrities And so on and so on. I could continue Googling for more stats, or I could track down the papers I had to read for class... but, eh, I get the feeling none of that would change your opinion.
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You do realise that those stats are not movie specific, and only account for a small percent of a particular population, not the whole world?
The reason you have seemed contradictory is that you have basically jumped on what Grimm and myself are saying, and saying we are wrong, despite the fact that your points tend to agree with us.
You seem to be under the misaprehension that we said what Pro said.
The whole reason this argument started is because typical knee jerk fanboy reaction is that a JLA movie is not a JLA movie without Bats/Supes, and will be shit!
You yourself are basically pointing out, that Joe Public has a perception, and its not necessarily the right perception (the Spiderman analogy), so they wont actually be that bothered if Bats/Supes aint in it if its a good movie...........basically the same thing Grimm & myself have been saying.
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Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 33,919
devil-lovin' Bat-Man 15000+ posts
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devil-lovin' Bat-Man 15000+ posts
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 33,919 |
I agree with you that a movie with minor characters can be awesome. I don't agree with you in that a movie like that can be succesfull. As simple as that. Why is that contradictory? Great movies bomb all the time.
I'm saying the public won't be bothered if Superman and The Bat-Man aren't in the film, but that doesn't mean you can put whoever you want in it. They have to be major superheroes. Considering that, I personally think they might as well put Supes and Bats.
The stats I posted are not movie specific, but I'm fairly sure that going to the movies counts as "consumer decisions". And of course they don't account for the whole world... this may come as a shock to you, but stats never do. Yes. Yes, it's true. The people who make stats only interview a bunch of thousands people and use them as a sample to create larger conclusions. That's what stats are, conclusions based on samples. You asked me for stats, you got stats. Anything else?
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Joined: May 2005
Posts: 12,912
Kneel! 10000+ posts
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Kneel! 10000+ posts
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 12,912 |
i asked one of my friends if she would go see a justice league movie without batman and superman in it. she said no...
big_pimp_tim-made it cool to roll in the first damn place! Mon Jun 11 2007 09:27 PM- harley finally rolled with me "I'm working with him...he's young but, there is much potential. He can apprentice with me and then he's yours for final training. He will remember the face of his father... Some day, Knutreturns just may be the greatest of us all...."-THE bastard
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Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 47,810 Likes: 2
Hip To Be Square 15000+ posts
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Hip To Be Square 15000+ posts
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 47,810 Likes: 2 |
Now you are pushing it.
We accept you have a father.
We accept you have a cousin.
But a friend..........c'mon, who you trying to fool?
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Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 47,810 Likes: 2
Hip To Be Square 15000+ posts
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Hip To Be Square 15000+ posts
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 47,810 Likes: 2 |
I agree with you that a movie with minor characters can be awesome. I don't agree with you in that a movie like that can be succesfull. As simple as that. Why is that contradictory? Great movies bomb all the time.
Mxy, there are loads of movies out there with characters nobody has heard of before they go to watch it, and they are still huge sucesses. Nobody, or at least barely anybody had heard of Indiana Jones, Star Wars, Robocop or 1000s of other characters in movies, but they still went to see them because of good promotion of those films, and by your reckoning, word of mouth! Lets face it, who the fuck knew Blade was even a Marvel comics character, but that didnt stop that film being a sucess!
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