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I'm a little surprised no one else has discussed this yet.
I really liked this tale. Snow got emotional slaughtered, didn't he? It had the right elements of betrayed love, selfish lust, and familial duty to the daughter who should have been his.
The racism was interesting too: "We don't want white in our waters" implies that the folk of Opak-Re think that white people cause the same sort of trouble as rapids. Which, given their civilisation is in Africa and mindful of Joseph Conrad's Heart of Darkness, was probably a fair assessment.
I didn't understand how Lord Blackstoke's powers worked, other than he was a century baby like Snow and Jenny sparks. Was he also the guy who died in the battle with Axel Brass against the faux-JLA?
Did anyone catch the Superman references on the last page?
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Didn't notice the Superman reference (I'll have to go back and check that) and I'd forgotten about the guy who died in the battle but I guess it's him.
The thing that I found interesting is that Jakita is a lot older than I expected her to be. We knew she had powers and was extra touhg and so on but we'd not really had any indication of how old she is. I was assuming she was in her thirties, maybe younger, only what with the dates in the latest issue (1936? Don't have the issue to hand) that makes Jakita to be in her late sixties. Which then of course begs the question is the Drummer really as old as he looks as well? f course we don't even really know what he actually is yet so his age might be irrelevant.
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The Drummer looked young in the Planet Fiction story - which was set in 1997. I guess, hesitatingly, that he ages at an ordinary rate.
Having Jakita being a teenager in the 1950s raises all sorts of story opportunities. I hope Ellis has the opportunity to give us a look at a young Jakita.
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I'm assuming Blackstock was the Tarzan analogue on Brass' team in issue one. Not really sure what his powers are/were. Kinda vague.
But Jakita born in 1934? Very surprising. Apparantely the century babies' longevity is passed on genetically.
Interesting to note Blackstock as another century baby. That makes Snow, Sparks, Brass, and Blackstock. I love this idea and want to see more of it.
I've been trying to figure out if the other child the Wagner's had raised has been seen before. I don't think it's John Cumberland, The High, from Stormwatch: Change or Die.
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I could have sworn I started a topic on this.....maybe I'm just crazy.
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quote:
Originally posted by Dave:
Was he also the guy who died in the battle with Axel Brass against the faux-JLA?
This was my initial thought, as well, but as the issue progressed it seemed less and less likely.
I'm a little dissapointed that Ellis decided to make Blackstoke(stock? stone? I can't remember) a century baby. It seems their numbers grow by the month, which makes the concept somewhat convoluted and contrived. Sort of like how Kal El is now the "not so" Last Son of Krypton, since another Kryptonian pops up every other week.
quote:
Originally posted by Grimm:
Interesting to note Blackstock as another century baby. That makes Snow, Sparks, Brass, and Blackstock. I love this idea and want to see more of it.
I'm pretty sure others have been referenced, though I can't remember offhand. I'll have to go back over my books again.
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Oh, I remember now. The old woman from The Monarchy. Her name escapes me, but I remember she was suppose to be a century baby, too.
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The Monarchy woman doesn't count. IIRC, she wasn't even truly born on Jan. 1st, 1900. And four century babies in at least as many years is hardly "more and more every week."
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She was still a century baby(as she was called in the book). Again, I believe there was even another referenced, but I can't remember where.
And, I didn't say "more and more every week", I said it seemed like their numbers grew by the month. What I liked so much about the century babies was that each had a purpose, a reason for their extraordinary powers. They were the Earth's immune system. What's this guy's significance?
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I was paraphrasing you.
I still don't consider her a century baby.
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quote:
Originally posted by Animalman:
Sort of like how Kal El is now the "not so" Last Son of Krypton, since another Kryptonian pops up every other week.
Thankfully that's not the case :)
No matter how hard Berganza, Loeb and others have tried to undo it, Superman is still the last Kryptonian.
The Eradicator doesn't count because of the following:
He's a machine.
He wasn't created on Krypton, he was reprogrammed there by Kem-L.
His organic body was created using mass from Superman's coffin.
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1) MOTA, we've heard this enough. Let it go. Try commenting of Planetary here.
2) Animalman, how could you have allowed him that opening.
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Actually, Blackstock was on Brass' team. For a long time now Ellis has said that we've already seen Jakita's father, and in issue one Brass (I think its him) says, "you came all the way from England for this, your Lordship?" to which he replies, "Africa, actually. Visiting childhood haunts."
Now in issue 17, the character is named as "Kevin Sack, Lord Blackstock". He was raised in the African wild by local fauna, while his real family purchased a title.
So I get the impression that "your Lordship" and Lord Blackstock are the same person.
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I liked the curve-balls Ellis threw in this issue - the racism of the Opak-Re civilisation, which Dave has already mentioned, and the fact that even though Lord Blackstock was raised in the jungle and has lived among the Opak-Re, he still sees them as inferior beings. Bascially he's your typical colonial Englishman of the times.
The artwork's always good in Planetary but I thought that this issue was exceptional.
The biggest surprise though was seeing a new Planetary story on the shelves so soon after the previous one.
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quote:
Originally posted by Stupid Dogg:
Actually, Blackstock was on Brass' team. For a long time now Ellis has said that we've already seen Jakita's father, and in issue one Brass (I think its him) says, "you came all the way from England for this, your Lordship?" to which he replies, "Africa, actually. Visiting childhood haunts."
Now in issue 17, the character is named as "Kevin Sack, Lord Blackstock". He was raised in the African wild by local fauna, while his real family purchased a title.
So I get the impression that "your Lordship" and Lord Blackstock are the same person.
I do remember that, but there are some inconsistencies in the references. Maybe Ellis is just mixing his mythology intentionally....
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quote:
Originally posted by Animalman:
What I liked so much about the century babies was that each had a purpose, a reason for their extraordinary powers. They were the Earth's immune system. What's this guy's significance?
Elementals? Avatars?
Snow - Ice
Jenny Sparks - Fire
Axel Brass - Metal
Kevin Blackstock - Animal
Don't know anything about The Monarchy, or any other Century Babies.
I am, actually, of the opinion that Blackstock is, in fact, the same Tarzan seen in Axel's group.
But, I'm also of the opinion that Ambrose Chase is the real Fourth Man, and that Drummer is the Fictionaut. These just my own wild and crazy theories, mind you. :)
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quote:
Originally posted by ManofTheAtom:
quote:
Originally posted by Animalman:
Sort of like how Kal El is now the "not so" Last Son of Krypton, since another Kryptonian pops up every other week.
Thankfully that's not the case :)
No matter how hard Berganza, Loeb and others have tried to undo it, Superman is still the last Kryptonian.
The Eradicator doesn't count because of the following:
He's a machine.
He wasn't created on Krypton, he was reprogrammed there by Kem-L.
His organic body was created using mass from Superman's coffin.
The Eradicator wasn't a machine in his original incarnation, where he was Kryptonian. And then there's Zod, Supergirl(though, admittedly, I have no fucking clue where she's from these days, her past is so horrendously confusing), and Krypto(brought back from the trip to the Phantom Zone Krypton).
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quote:
Originally posted by Prometheus:
quote:
Originally posted by Animalman:
What I liked so much about the century babies was that each had a purpose, a reason for their extraordinary powers. They were the Earth's immune system. What's this guy's significance?
Elementals? Avatars?
Snow - Ice
Jenny Sparks - Fire
Axel Brass - Metal
Kevin Blackstock - Animal
Don't know anything about The Monarchy, or any other Century Babies.
I am, actually, of the opinion that Blackstock is, in fact, the same Tarzan seen in Axel's group.
But, I'm also of the opinion that Ambrose Chase is the real Fourth Man, and that Drummer is the Fictionaut. These just my own wild and crazy theories, mind you. :)
Jenny Sparks doesn't have fire related powers, though. And "Animal" doesn't seem like a traditional element. Isn't it fire, water, earth and metal?
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quote:
And "Animal" doesn't seem like a traditional element.
It's like that poor kid who had the power of Heart in the Captain Planet cartoon.
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quote:
Originally posted by backwards7:
quote:
And "Animal" doesn't seem like a traditional element.
It's like that poor kid who had the power of Heart in the Captain Planet cartoon.
lol! yeah, I always did wonder why he was on the damn team. I think it was for his monkey.
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quote:
Originally posted by backwards7:
quote:
And "Animal" doesn't seem like a traditional element.
It's like that poor kid who had the power of Heart in the Captain Planet cartoon.
Exactly what I was thinking. Poor guy. He was useless.
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anyone else here have Captain Planet toys when they were kids? I had Kwame and Wheeler. My stupid brother though Ma-Ti was awesome ( :lol: watta queer).
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quote:
Originally posted by Animalman:
The Eradicator wasn't a machine in his original incarnation, where he was Kryptonian. And then there's Zod, Supergirl(though, admittedly, I have no fucking clue where she's from these days, her past is so horrendously confusing), and Krypto(brought back from the trip to the Phantom Zone Krypton).
Re: Eradicator
Yeah he was :) Then he became humanoid twice.
Zod was Russian.
Supergirl might be a clone.
So far the only real survivor of Krypton remains Superman.
Re: Planetary.
From what I've seen you guy say, the origin sounds very good.
I do agree with Animalman that overdoing it with the century babies is as bad as what happened with Kryptonians in the Pre Crisis.
Besides, shouldn't Snow be dead?
How is possible that Jenny Sparks died to give way to Jenny Quantum but Snow hasn't died?
The only way that works is if we assume that no matter how long it takes for Planetary to wrap all stories take place before December 31st 2000, unless told different.
This is a major plot hole when it comes to the concept of Snow, but not one done on purpose (obviously). This is just a result of missed deadlines.
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I figured that Jenny Sparks died because she was the Spirit of the 20th Century. She died at the end of it and was reincarnated as Jenny Quantum, the Spirit of the 21st Century. Just because she died at the end of the century, doesn't mean all century babies have to die by the end of the century. They all seem to have a specific purpose to fulfill first. Jenny died saving Earth from "God". Blackstock died saving earth from the invaders from another reality. Supposedly, Snow might die fighting the Four. Also, if Jakita is old but looks young, was Hark a century baby? If so, that might be why Anna Hark is so old but looks young.
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quote:
Originally posted by Animalman:
Jenny Sparks doesn't have fire related powers, though.
Being a bit literal, aren't we? Fire is merely another signature of the same energy that composes electricity.
And "Animal" doesn't seem like a traditional element. Isn't it fire, water, earth and metal?
Perhaps not. But, that's why I also said "avatar".
So, maybe it's:
Snow - Water
Jenny - Fire
Brass - Metal
These are just fun little theories on my part.
And Captain Planet was gay. ![[wink]](images/icons/wink.gif)
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quote:
Being a bit literal, aren't we? Fire is merely another signature of the same energy that composes electricity.
What an odd thing to think. Electricity and fire are very different.
I am intrigued by your thought that the Drummer is the Fictionaut, though.
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but the Drummer was on that mission....
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Yes. Muwahahahaha!
Scary, isn't it?
The reason why this is so appealing is that the idea of the Drummer has been planted in the reality of the story by reason of the rocket's return. Time and continuity have no place in a post-modern story. Maybe Ellis is playing a post-modern mind game with us and the characters.
As a literary fruit I'd be impressed at the avant garde tangent, but I imagine that would annoy the crap out of most readers.
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quote:
Originally posted by ManofTheAtom:
Zod was Russian.
...Russian? Then why does he have the same powers Superman does?
quote:
So far the only real survivor of Krypton remains Superman.
You forgot Krypto!
quote:
Besides, shouldn't Snow be dead?
How is possible that Jenny Sparks died to give way to Jenny Quantum but Snow hasn't died?
I've wondered this often, myself. Brass should be, too, by this logic.
quote:
Originally posted by Prometheus:
Being a bit literal, aren't we? Fire is merely another signature of the same energy that composes electricity.
mmm.....yes, technically you're right, but it is a bit of a stretch. As a pattern it doesn't seem crisp enough to work. Just my opinion, though, obviously.
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quote:
Originally posted by Stupid Dogg:
I figured that Jenny Sparks died because she was the Spirit of the 20th Century. She died at the end of it and was reincarnated as Jenny Quantum, the Spirit of the 21st Century. Just because she died at the end of the century, doesn't mean all century babies have to die by the end of the century. They all seem to have a specific purpose to fulfill first. Jenny died saving Earth from "God". Blackstock died saving earth from the invaders from another reality. Supposedly, Snow might die fighting the Four. Also, if Jakita is old but looks young, was Hark (from Brass' team) a century baby? If so, that might be why Anna Hark is so old but looks young.
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Right, so that's her purpose. And I suppose Snow's purpose is collecting information. It gets a little ambiguous after that, though.
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I have to admit I still haven't read Batman/Planetary, JLA/Planetary, Planetary 16 or 17 yet.....I own them just haven't read thme yet... ![[sad]](images/icons/frown.gif)
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quote:
Originally posted by Stupid Dogg:
quote:
Originally posted by Stupid Dogg:
I figured that Jenny Sparks died because she was the Spirit of the 20th Century. She died at the end of it and was reincarnated as Jenny Quantum, the Spirit of the 21st Century. Just because she died at the end of the century, doesn't mean all century babies have to die by the end of the century. They all seem to have a specific purpose to fulfill first. Jenny died saving Earth from "God". Blackstock died saving earth from the invaders from another reality. Supposedly, Snow might die fighting the Four. Also, if Jakita is old but looks young, was Hark (from Brass' team) a century baby? If so, that might be why Anna Hark is so old but looks young.
Nice theory that each century baby was "created" in order to protect the Earth from some sort of predetermined event.
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quote:
Originally posted by Animalman:
...Russian? Then why does he have the same powers Superman does?
He was born on a Russian space station and when Kal-El's ship entered Earth's atmosphere the radiation gave Zod his powers (not too different from what happened to Kenny Braverman. Does that well look shallow to anyone else or is it just me?)
quote:
You forgot Krypto!
Forgot, blocked... is there a difference? :)
Krypto comes from an alternate reality, a fake Krypton created by Brainiac 13 inside the Phantom Zone
Kal-El is still the only survivor from the Krypton from Man of Steel #1.
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Fucking hell. Do people actually debate this crap?
Arguing over Superman comics is like arguing that the piece of dog shit on my lawn is a better shape, size, smell and texture than the dogshit on your lawn. At the end of the day, its still dogshit.
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Is it pre-crisis dogshit?
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quote:
Originally posted by Animalman:
Is it pre-crisis dogshit?
It's not, but could we pretend it is? lol.
I know that Superman #200 is going to erase a lot of stuff from Superman's continuity (or so Berganza says), so hopefully it'll get rid of the above dog shit... unless it's Kryptonian dog shit, he'll need some Kryptonite for that...
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I wonder how powerful the child would be if Superman fucked Jakita and they had a baby.
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