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fantastic review, it is a prety shite comic, art is good, writing is naff, characters are wankers, won't buy it again...
bloody brilliant review that!
God bless 17 year olds with boiled fruit for brains for not pandering to the chattering masses.
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quote:
but its my contention that this is exactly why the field is collapsing.
And that's why there is this big song and dance about what she said. It takes an outsider (pardon the pun) to crystalise what everyone was thinking.
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...I see I've now upset Tom Raney. Too bad - its not the art which is objectionable...
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Heh. Brilliant.
My own review in Rogerburks thread over at the DCMB's pretty much agreed with this girls. waaay too much emphasis on past continuity, on past relationships, on past traumas, on past 3rd tier characters and on past dates by everyone involved. This book was tailor made for those people who prefer continuity over story.
I'm not one of them so I not only decided not to buy issue # 2, I couldn't even get thru to the end of issue #1! I made it as far as that "meta" bar, straight out of the BoP TV show, and couldn't take any more.
I'm over there at Mile High now reading the entire thread. Funny all the venom and insults being hurled at the poor girl for daring to insult the insular innaccesible nature of our little dying medium. it looks as if a lot of people would rather comics cater to them till the bitter end rather than actually approach something even remotely resembling inclusivity.
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Well, I asked Tom who the editor for Outsiders was before the comic came out over at DCMB. He said Eddie Berganza.....I tried it because of his art. But I knew that If I bought more than 1 issue I would probably leave by issue 3 because of 2 reasons...
1) Judd Winnick is not a great writer. He is still living off his fame from Pedro and Me, and his cult following of Barry Ween and exiles readers....But I've still yet to read a story of his I enjoyed..even remotely..
2) Eddie Berganza is the worst editor I have personally ever seen. There is yet to be a book edited by him that I have liked that I can rememeber...I may have liked the issue of action with The Elite in it, but I've never been able to find a copy...
Does he edit..???If he had Jess may not have been able to make fun of the book..It's a first issue for pete's sake...
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Oh yeah, stir up some more shit Dave..it's priceless..
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quote:
it looks as if a lot of people would rather comics cater to them till the bitter end rather than actually approach something even remotely resembling inclusivity.
The entire thing must be amusing the hell out of Warren Ellis, if he's following it: this is precisely what he complains about in Come in Alone.
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quote:
Originally posted by Animalman:
Many of the posters at Newsarama are starting to suspect that Jess is a hoax, as so far editors have referred to her as both "he" and "she", confusing her gender.
Yeah, I noticed that. I hope it's not true. It'll do nothing but backfire if this turns out to be a put-up job.
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So far i've gotten to page three where I found this chesnut of brilliance. The post was mocking by the way. quote:
She shouldn't be allowed to comment on comics if she can't treat this great medium of ours (do you hear me, "Jess"? Ours!)
At this point, I no longer care if the industry comes crashing to the ground. Just so long as it moves these people who actually do think this way back to Star Trek or somewhere where they can obsess to their hearts conent about THEIR characters.
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quote:
Originally posted by Animalman:
Breast, sorry.
please, like you'd know how to identify one.
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quote:
Originally posted by whomod:
So far i've gotten to page three where I found this chesnut of brilliance. The post was mocking by the way.
quote:
She shouldn't be allowed to comment on comics if she can't treat this great medium of ours (do you hear me, "Jess"? Ours!)
At this point, I no longer care if the industry comes crashing to the ground. Just so long as it moves these people who actually do think this way back to Star Trek or somewhere where they can obsess to their hearts conent about THEIR characters.
Yeah I had a good laugh about that one too.
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quote:
Originally posted by Rob Kamphausen:
quote:
Originally posted by Animalman:
Breast, sorry.
please, like you'd know how to identify one.
Annie knows man-breasts like no one else!
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I won't defend Judd Winick (because I hate his writing) or DC, but I will defend comics. Now that review was funny, but really it wasn't fair for the PULSE to have her review Outsiders #1. The reason I say this is because Outsiders #1 is a spin-off book based on the Titans and Outsiders mythos, and is targeted at that existing fanbase, not new readers. Not every mass produced product is meant to gain new customers! And because I'm a business major I'll explain further: 1) Products aimed at the "core" market. This would be the people who don't come and go, but are loyal comics readers. The "Fan-boys" 2) Products aimed at the "growth" sector. This would be products aimed to grow the numbers of people who buy comics. So all I am saying is Outsiders #1 wasn't aimed at her it's aimed at the "core" market. Now if you liked Titans but hated this book, to me that's a fair opinion! But they should have had her review a book that was aimed towards the "growth sector" ![[cool]](images/icons/cool.gif)
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quote:
Originally posted by Doc.Mid-Nite:
I won't defend Judd Winick (because I hate his writing) or DC, but I will defend comics. Now that review was funny, but really it wasn't fair for the PULSE to have her review Outsiders #1. The reason I say this is because Outsiders #1 is a spin-off book based on the Titans and Outsiders mythos, and is targeted at that existing fanbase, not new readers. Not every mass produced product is meant to gain new customers! And because I'm a business major I'll explain further:
1) Products aimed at the "core" market. This would be the people who don't come and go, but are loyal comics readers. The "Fan-boys"
2) Products aimed at the "growth" sector. This would be products aimed to grow the numbers of people who buy comics.
So all I am saying is Outsiders #1 wasn't aimed at her it's aimed at the "core" market. Now if you liked Titans but hated this book, to me that's a fair opinion! But they should have had her review a book that was aimed towards the "growth sector"
Unfortunately, the products aimed at the core market are also easily purchased to the growth market: the two types of products are on the face of it indistinguishable. The result of this is that the growth market will be deterred by the products aimed at the core market. In fact, this is what is happening: there is negative growth, caused by, amongst other things, the growth market's exposure to core market products.
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quote:
Originally posted by Dave:
quote:
Originally posted by Doc.Mid-Nite:
I won't defend Judd Winick (because I hate his writing) or DC, but I will defend comics. Now that review was funny, but really it wasn't fair for the PULSE to have her review Outsiders #1. The reason I say this is because Outsiders #1 is a spin-off book based on the Titans and Outsiders mythos, and is targeted at that existing fanbase, not new readers. Not every mass produced product is meant to gain new customers! And because I'm a business major I'll explain further:
1) Products aimed at the "core" market. This would be the people who don't come and go, but are loyal comics readers. The "Fan-boys"
2) Products aimed at the "growth" sector. This would be products aimed to grow the numbers of people who buy comics.
So all I am saying is Outsiders #1 wasn't aimed at her it's aimed at the "core" market. Now if you liked Titans but hated this book, to me that's a fair opinion! But they should have had her review a book that was aimed towards the "growth sector"
Unfortunately, the products aimed at the core market are also easily purchased to the growth market: the two types of products are on the face of it indistinguishable. The result of this is that the growth market will be deterred by the products aimed at the core market. In fact, this is what is happening: there is negative growth, caused by, amongst other things, the growth market's exposure to core market products.
Now Dave that I agree with! But I still believe this review wasn't fair because the PULSE knew that this book was targeted at an already existing fanbase!
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But that's the point: too many people not in the existing fan base are going to pick it up, form the rapid conclusion that its shite, and put it back on the shelf.
Worse, those same people are going to view Outsiders #1 as representative of comics. Why would a new reader be attracted to a medium based on their assessment of a book which to them just simply makes no sense?
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quote:
Worse, those same people are going to view Outsiders #1 as representative of comics. Why would a new reader be attracted to a medium based on their assessment of a book which to them just simply makes no sense?
Well, that's unfortunately true of many mediums, not just comic books. If someone unfamiliar with the band Metallica was to try out their newest album, St. Anger, they'd probably think it was crap, and then assume all Metallica's albums are crap. People assume. It's what they do.
The best the comic industry can realistically do is just promote books that are new reader friendly more and more. Whether we like to admit it or not, books like Outsiders are crucial to the industry. Old readers eat this shit up, and they have for years. It's a fact. I haven't confirmed it, but several reports indicate that Outsiders #1 sold out this month. So somebody out there liked it.
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They should have done a one page recap of historically significant events..who the originals were, who wing and arsenal are, and the recent events of graduation day.....
I still only thought the book was so/so....in any event..
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quote:
Originally posted by Pig Iron:
They should have done a one page recap of historically significant events..who the originals were, who wing and arsenal are, and the recent events of graduation day.....
I still only thought the book was so/so....in any event..
And that's a very fair opinion Pig Iron because they tried to target this book at you, but the industry can't recap previous events for every book that has some history to it! When I started reading Batman again, I picked it up near the end of No Man's Land. Should they have put a one page recap in every issue of that story arc just in case I was a new reader who didn't know what back issues were?
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quote:
Originally posted by Doc.Mid-Nite:
Should they have put a one page recap in every issue of that story arc just in case I was a new reader who didn't know what back issues were?
actually... its not a horrible idea.
i mean, they typically include a one paragraph blurb about what to expect in the next issue, it couldn't hurt to depict what happened in the previous one.
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quote:
Originally posted by Rob Kamphausen:
quote:
Originally posted by Doc.Mid-Nite:
Should they have put a one page recap in every issue of that story arc just in case I was a new reader who didn't know what back issues were?
actually... its not a horrible idea.
i mean, they typically include a one paragraph blurb about what to expect in the next issue, it couldn't hurt to depict what happened in the previous one.
Maybe, but as a fan I'd prefer they use that page on the existing story, not what's been going on for the last ten or so issues.
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eh, it doesnt have to be a whole page ... just slap it on the inside of the cover. or in a lil box next to where they list the author and penciller.
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quote:
Originally posted by Doc.Mid-Nite:
When I started reading Batman again, I picked it up near the end of No Man's Land. Should they have put a one page recap in every issue of that story arc just in case I was a new reader who didn't know what back issues were?
Yet, you picked up a series in the middle of a huge story arc. Outsiders is a #1 issue. There should at least be some introduction of the characters and where they've been or what their history together is.
Besides, Marvel has started a good practice with many of their books (Captain Marvel being one of them) of having the first page as a recap of what's been going on before the actual comic. It works quite well for people just coming into a series or who may have missed an issue or two.
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quote:
Originally posted by thedoctor:
Yet, you picked up a series in the middle of a huge story arc. Outsiders is a #1 issue. There should at least be some introduction of the characters and where they've been or what their history together is.
Besides, Marvel has started a good practice with many of their books (Captain Marvel being one of them) of having the first page as a recap of what's been going on before the actual comic. It works quite well for people just coming into a series or who may have missed an issue or two.
true.
and also, you are gay.
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quote:
Originally posted by Rob Kamphausen:
and also, you are gay.
You're just saying that because I broke up with you.
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quote:
Originally posted by Rob Kamphausen:
in uraguay, no less!
Hahaha he said "Uraguay"! :lol:
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quote:
Originally posted by Doc.Mid-Nite:
quote:
Originally posted by Pig Iron:
They should have done a one page recap of historically significant events..who the originals were, who wing and arsenal are, and the recent events of graduation day.....
I still only thought the book was so/so....in any event..
And that's a very fair opinion Pig Iron because they tried to target this book at you, but the industry can't recap previous events for every book that has some history to it! When I started reading Batman again, I picked it up near the end of No Man's Land. Should they have put a one page recap in every issue of that story arc just in case I was a new reader who didn't know what back issues were?
Yeah, they should One of the best recaps I've seen was in the front page of Danger Girl.
The Phantom had an origin recap every month.
I've been told that one of the X-men titles do, too.
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quote:
Originally posted by Dave:
quote:
Originally posted by Doc.Mid-Nite:
quote:
Originally posted by Pig Iron:
They should have done a one page recap of historically significant events..who the originals were, who wing and arsenal are, and the recent events of graduation day.....
I still only thought the book was so/so....in any event..
And that's a very fair opinion Pig Iron because they tried to target this book at you, but the industry can't recap previous events for every book that has some history to it! When I started reading Batman again, I picked it up near the end of No Man's Land. Should they have put a one page recap in every issue of that story arc just in case I was a new reader who didn't know what back issues were?
Yeah, they should One of the best recaps I've seen was in the front page of Danger Girl.
The Phantom had an origin recap every month.
I've been told that one of the X-men titles do, too.
Yeah, I can see how it has its merits, as long as they don't cut anything out of the issue.
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My point was, I should have expressed it I forgot, that if they did the one page recap and intro then they could have taken all the pages Winick wasted explaining it himself and added actual content and made a more engaging story.
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But Pig Iron, that would mean good writing.
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quote:
Originally posted by Dave:
But Pig Iron, that would mean good writing.
Good writing?! From Winick?! I don't know if that's possible!
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