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Its a Schrodingers Cat ending. The fate of the world depends the random fat fingers of a fat kid in a grubby t-shirt. You are not supposed to know what happens. Anything could happen. That's the point (I always read it as an endorsement of the Comedian's philosophy, given the badge on the fat kid's sweater - the vagaries of life are funny, even in their extremes).

bsams - film adaptions of books rarely turn out well, with minor exceptions like Blade Runner (much better than the shitty book). If this is true to the book, a piece of literature with an ending grounded in probabilities, then a sequel fucks that right up.


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Your using you emotion as well, not the fact that there is plenty of room for a sequel.

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Moore talks a lot of shit, and jut cause he said there would not be a sequel, doesnt mean he (or someone else) wouldnt (and still wont) do it.

As has already been said, just look at things like Highlander and Terminator to see that movie studios hold ultimate power as to whether a film with no sequel potential, gets a sequel.
The same can be said of DC Comics, especially as they are owned by Warners!

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 Originally Posted By: First Amongst Daves
Its a Schrodingers Cat ending. The fate of the world depends the random fat fingers of a fat kid in a grubby t-shirt. You are not supposed to know what happens. Anything could happen. That's the point (I always read it as an endorsement of the Comedian's philosophy, given the badge on the fat kid's sweater - the vagaries of life are funny, even in their extremes).


It's also an endorsement of Dr Manhattan's admonition to Veidt that nothing ever ends. The story began with a stained smiley face and Rorschach's journal and now it looks like its going to start again with those same elements.

Similarly, the whole "clock" metaphor ties into the idea that the same time occurs over and over. It's 12:00 twice a day, every day, forever. The clock keeps going around no matter what.

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 Originally Posted By: Nöwheremän
Moore talks a lot of shit, and jut cause he said there would not be a sequel, doesnt mean he (or someone else) wouldnt (and still wont) do it.

As has already been said, just look at things like Highlander and Terminator to see that movie studios hold ultimate power as to whether a film with no sequel potential, gets a sequel.


Yep, stranger things have happened. I was only debating the point that Moore himself thought there could be a sequel, as was said before.


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Watchmen: Tales From The Black Freighter

http://quicksilverscreen.com/watch?video=60490


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Weekend box office:
  • Watchmen (Warner Bros) suffered a second consecutive disastrous 3-day, down another 62% to $6.7M for a 17-day cume of $98M. Zack Snyder’s adaptation of Alan Moore’s classic graphic novel is unlikely to reach much past $110M in the US, and with a soft foreign performance as well, it will struggle to reach any real profitability.

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I watched it on Filmhill. Honestly, I really didn't like it too much. Maybe I'd appreciate it more with better picture and sound quality, but I'd read the trade so many times, and the story itself is so deep, that the movie might have been better off splitting into 2 movies and expanding the story. But I just don't know if I'd go back for a second viewing at a theater. The hardest problem for me was the actor who played Ozymandias, and the voice-work for Dr. Manhattan. Ozy sounded like a Jersey thug, and Manhattan sounded very...ungod-like I guess. I just had very different voices in my head for both characters.

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'Watchmen' Fallout: No more R-rated Tentpole films for Warner Bros.
  • WB is apparently skittish about losing money if a superhero/tentpole film is rated R rather than the more family friendly PG-13.

    The biggest superhero film last year (and of all time) was a WB film, The Dark Knight, which grossed $1,001,842,429 worldwide and it was rated PG-13. Iron Man, another big hit last year, grossed $582,030,528 worldwide and was rated PG-13. Everybody took their families to these movies, kids bought the shirts and the toys and the masks etc. which means more money for the studio.

    On the other hand, Zack Snyder's Watchmen was rated R and I am sure the fact that it was 2 hours and 40 minutes long also had something to do with it, but it bowed at $55 million opening weekend and then sharply dropped off. You can't take your kids to this one, not sure if you'd even be comfortable watching it with your mother. Don't get me wrong, I really liked it and thought it was a fantastic piece of filmmaking, but it's definitely for adults only. And no kids will be asking mommy to buy them shirts or Rorschach masks from this one.

    How much of the movie going market - specifically those that go to see superhero/genre films - is cut out by rating a film R versus a PG-13? Warner Bros. thinks too much and is said to be focusing solely on PG-13 rated superhero/tentpole films only, definitely harder than the "family friendly" superhero films of Fantastic Four but not in the R rated range. Think about it, the movie going audience is "huge", now the genre/superhero movie going audience is a portion of that "huge" and the R rated/genre/superhero movie going audience is an even smaller portion of that "huge." It makes a lot of sense to make the movie for the largest audience possible and still respect the property.

    Not that it's a superhero film, but it is a genre tentpole, Terminator Salvation, PG-13 or R? WB wants PG-13, director McG wants R just like the originals. McG was outspoken about the ratings debacle at WonderCon 2009 who said he wants the Moon Bloodgood in the rain topless scene kept in the film. WB wants it nixed to comply with the PG-13 guidelines. This was before the R-rated Watchmen premiered but the studio apparently already had the feeling that PG-13 was the way to go to make the big box office bucks with the genre.

    So you can bet your ass Green Lantern and Wonder Woman will be PG-13. However, I've been told Jonah Hex, set for August 2010, is still a go for an R rating however WB doesn't consider it a "superhero" movie per se but a rather a comic book adaptation and not one of their tentpole films.

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Jesus, they have to realise its not about whether its a superhero movie or not that gets it a rating, its about what the subject matter is.

Whats next, a Freddy Kruger film with a PG13 rating?
A Saw film with a PG13 rating?

When you look it certain superhero/comic book adaptations, some should certainly be PG13 (GL and Wonder Woman etc) and other should be more adult (Punisher, Wolverine & Ghost Rider etc), purely based on what the character is like originally!

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It sounds like they are still going to have R-rated movies, such as Jonah Hex, just not ones they think will sell to young teenagers (superhero flicks, Terminator).

Given that they said Jonah Hex will be R I doubt they're going to make all their horror movies PG13.

More to the point about WB having their head up their ass:

 Originally Posted By: the G-man of Zur-En-Arrh

Not that it's a superhero film, but it is a genre tentpole, Terminator Salvation, PG-13 or R? WB wants PG-13, director McG wants R just like the originals. McG was outspoken about the ratings debacle at WonderCon 2009 who said he wants the Moon Bloodgood in the rain topless scene kept in the film. WB wants it nixed to comply with the PG-13 guidelines.


In other words, WB thinks showing this woman topless


...would HURT ticket sales?

Ooookay....

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I finally got to see this last night and I loved it.I picked out most of the stuff I coulda nit-picked but decided to just enjoy the film for what it was.Really,really cool.Can't wait for the DVD release and all the bonus stuff that'll be on it.


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Man, 24, shoots and kills self in movie theater during 'Watchmen'

 Quote:

Man, 24, shoots and kills self in movie theater during 'Watchmen'

Police responded to the Regal Cinemas at Valley River Center just after midnight Monday. A man shot and killed himself during a showing of "The Watchmen."

EUGENE, Ore. -- A 24-year-old man shot and killed himself inside a movie theater at a shopping mall during a screening of the movie "The Watchmen" just past midnight Monday.

The report of a gun fired at the Regal Cinemas in Valley River Center mall came in at 12:15 a.m. Monday.

There were about 10 other people in the theater at the time, according to police. The victim, whose name is being withheld pending notification of next of kin, was seated in the back corner of the theater.

The closest person to the gunman was two rows away. No one else was injured.

Movie goers reported hearing a popping sound during the late-night showing. The manager contacted police.

Officers were on scene for about three hours.


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That's the nice theater in town! He could have at least had the dignity to kill himself in the ghetto one!


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I didn't know PCG was visiting Eugene...

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Does that still count as a ticket sale?


People are already looking at the time of death and trying to figure out what scene made him kill himself.


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 Originally Posted By: Lucius Prometheus Vorenus
I didn't know PCG was visiting Eugene...


It was a real suicide, not a fake one. Besides, we all know how bad PCgay is with guns. He would have completely missed.


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 Quote:
The legal fallout from 'Watchmen' continues next month as attorneys for Warner Bros. and producer Larry Gordon have agreed on a date to begin mediation over the question of legal responsibility for the famous dust-up with 20th Century Fox over the rights to the film.

Regular readers will recall that Fox laid claim to the film late last year and triggered a legal battle that eventually lead to them receiving a payout from Warner Bros in order to clear the release of the film.

According to The Hollywood Repoter, on May 13, representatives for Warner Bros and Gordon will meet for nonbinding mediation with Daniel Weinstein to determine if Gordon should pay a portion of the Fox settlement and, if so, how much.

In a December 2008 ruling on the matter, federal judge Gary Feess admonished Gordon's lack of cooperation in the hearings and suggested that the producer's vague testimony hampered Warners' case.

Warners is said to be seeking full reimbursment from Gordon, arguing that he failed to secure the rights properly before taking the project to them. Gordon's side is said to be arguing that Warner was fully informed of the relationship with Fox and entered into the production with eyes wide open.

Fingers are also pointed at Gordon's former attourneys at Jake Bloom's law firm, who were involved with the 1991 agreement with Fox that became the lynchpin to thier case.

The bittersweet good news for either Warner and/or Gordon and/or Bloom, is that the film's underachievment at the box office means the payout to Fox is smaller than expected


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Watchmen director’s cut in theaters this July
  • A rep for Warner Bros. dropped us some information on the Watchmen film, which will return to theaters in July — only this time, it will be the director’s cut — “Zack Snyder’s full interpretation,” which will include deleted scenes. It is about 24 minutes longer, clocking in at a little more than three hours.

    Also, Watchmen is set to come out on DVD and Blu-Ray July 21.

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you would think some Moron at WB would have at least read the original source material of watchmen before expecting it to be huge like DK?


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 Originally Posted By: Ultimate Jaburg53
 Originally Posted By: Nöwheremän


Annoyingly, its not the directors cut, so I am pretty pissed off.
Will probably put this up for sale and import a copy.

Warners are wankers!


I was disappointed with the directors cut. Alot of what they cut out is crap. Some shit was added in that had to do with Curse of the Black Freighter but COTBF isn't edited into the film.

The murder of Hollis Mason was fucking awesome though.


As discussed when the film first came out, if anything, the theatrical version should've been shorter.

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OK.

The directors cut still would have been unfulfilling.

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I still want to see it with the pirate story in where it should be.

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What was your point anyway?

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 Originally Posted By: the G-man of Zur-En-Arrh
 Originally Posted By: Ultimate Jaburg53
 Originally Posted By: Nöwheremän


Annoyingly, its not the directors cut, so I am pretty pissed off.
Will probably put this up for sale and import a copy.

Warners are wankers!


I was disappointed with the directors cut. Alot of what they cut out is crap. Some shit was added in that had to do with Curse of the Black Freighter but COTBF isn't edited into the film.

The murder of Hollis Mason was fucking awesome though.


As discussed when the film first came out, if anything, the theatrical version should've been shorter.

Nope!

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 Originally Posted By: Ultimate Jaburg53
I still want to see it with the pirate story in where it should be.

There is rumours (and strictly that) that there will be an ultimate edition at some point, that reintergrates Black freighter into the movie.

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The theatrical version should have been the entire fucking story.

Unfortunately any movie made in Hollywood these days is geared for ticket sales rather than story and the art of film making.

I watched The Right Stuff last night. It is a long movie, but I love it.

It's a Mad,Mad,Mad,Mad,Mad World was over three hours and that was brilliant.

Amadeus had to have an intermission.

Today half of those movies would have only been seen that way on DVD, because the theater version is cut for the shit head who has trouble remembering what was happening to them 90 minutes ago.

Were being cheated at the cinema. Less movie, more money.

Don't you want to see the entire movie on the big screen, not just at home.

If not why not skip going all together?

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 Originally Posted By: Nöwheremän
 Originally Posted By: Ultimate Jaburg53
I still want to see it with the pirate story in where it should be.

There is rumours (and strictly that) that there will be an ultimate edition at some point, that reintergrates Black freighter into the movie.


They're rumors, true, but they're rumors to which Snyder gave credence. I'm holding off until the end of the year for the at-this-point-theoretical uber edition. If it doesn't come out, at least I know I can grab the Director's Cut.


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Joe Mama #1074357 2009-07-25 9:09 PM
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My downloaded copy looks fine on my tv.

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I'll only drop the cash on the version I want.

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 Originally Posted By: Ultimate Jaburg53
The theatrical version should have been the entire fucking story.

Unfortunately any movie made in Hollywood these days is geared for ticket sales rather than story and the art of film making.

I watched The Right Stuff last night. It is a long movie, but I love it.

It's a Mad,Mad,Mad,Mad,Mad World was over three hours and that was brilliant.

Amadeus had to have an intermission.

Today half of those movies would have only been seen that way on DVD, because the theater version is cut for the shit head who has trouble remembering what was happening to them 90 minutes ago.

Were being cheated at the cinema. Less movie, more money.

Don't you want to see the entire movie on the big screen, not just at home.

If not why not skip going all together?

This is why I say it shouldnt have been shorter.
When I saw it at the cinema, while I did enjoy it, I was left with a feeling that key points from the original story were missing (like the death of Hollis).

If they cant do it as a proper movie, they should have done it in episodic form.

The fact that they tried to make it as faithful as possible, is appreciated, but by doing that, they only left the fans of the source material, wanting more.

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I would have preferred a full-length episodic story. However, once they made the decision to make a movie there was no way to include everything from the book.

So we were left with some stuff, most notably the Rorshach origin, which didn't advance the story in the film and could've been cut to make a tighter film.

Similarly, I hate to say it but they could have cut the Hollis backstory all together and not hurt the film one bit.

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 Originally Posted By: the G-man of Zur-En-Arrh
I would have preferred a full-length episodic story. However, once they made the decision to make a movie there was no way to include everything from the book.

So we were left with some stuff, most notably the Rorshach origin, which didn't advance the story in the film and could've been cut to make a tighter film.

Similarly, I hate to say it but they could have cut the Hollis backstory all together and not hurt the film one bit.


You're the evil.

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 Originally Posted By: Ultimate Jaburg53
 Originally Posted By: the G-man of Zur-En-Arrh
I would have preferred a full-length episodic story. However, once they made the decision to make a movie there was no way to include everything from the book.

So we were left with some stuff, most notably the Rorshach origin, which didn't advance the story in the film and could've been cut to make a tighter film.

Similarly, I hate to say it but they could have cut the Hollis backstory all together and not hurt the film one bit.


You're the evil.

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If DC/TIME-Warner were smart, it would wait a few years, and then do an HBO mini-series. This time, do it exactly like the original story. Animate it, if you want. But, overall, it would be a way for them to re-market the Watchmen franchise, knowing they're going to try and find a way to recoup their losses for the film...

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What losses?
Budget was $100,000,000, and it made $107,503,316 in the USA alone.
Factor in the rest of the worlds take, and DVD sales, and thats all profit!

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 Originally Posted By: Nöwheremän
What losses?
Budget was $100,000,000, and it made $107,503,316 in the USA alone.
Factor in the rest of the worlds take, and DVD sales, and thats all profit!




Here we go again. Every time Nowie likes a movie, it made a "profit" or was a "hit" once we factor in DVD sales.

No movie he likes ever loses money in his world. Yet, according to at least one business magazine:
  • Watchmen's budget is estimated to be $100 million-$125 million. The quick way to estimate the point at which a movie will break even, if you don't know its marketing budget or how much money various back-end deals will take away from the studio, is usually just to double its production budget [and] a movie has to make two and a half times its production budget in order to be considered financially successful.

    Erring on the conservative side of Watchmen's production budget, that means it has to make $200 million to $250 million domestically for Warner Bros. and Legendary to make a profit. Considering that Fox may get 8.5% of box-office revenues, this number may be higher.

    (Paramount's handling the overseas distribution, so Warner Bros. doesn't get any of the foreign box-office revenues.)





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that has been debunked in several times even in court. That's the formula studios use to claim profit when issuing points(percentage takes) to artists. Eddie Murphy won some serious $$$ disproving that fallacy.

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 Originally Posted By: the G-man of Zur-En-Arrh
 Originally Posted By: Nöwheremän
What losses?
Budget was $100,000,000, and it made $107,503,316 in the USA alone.
Factor in the rest of the worlds take, and DVD sales, and thats all profit!




Here we go again. Every time Nowie likes a movie, it made a "profit" or was a "hit" once we factor in DVD sales.

No movie he likes ever loses money in his world. Yet, according to at least one business magazine:
  • Watchmen's budget is estimated to be $100 million-$125 million. The quick way to estimate the point at which a movie will break even, if you don't know its marketing budget or how much money various back-end deals will take away from the studio, is usually just to double its production budget [and] a movie has to make two and a half times its production budget in order to be considered financially successful.

    Erring on the conservative side of Watchmen's production budget, that means it has to make $200 million to $250 million domestically for Warner Bros. and Legendary to make a profit. Considering that Fox may get 8.5% of box-office revenues, this number may be higher.

    (Paramount's handling the overseas distribution, so Warner Bros. doesn't get any of the foreign box-office revenues.)





No its not about me defending a movie I like, its about figures.
You can quote all the bullshit figures you like, but the budget was $1mil (maybe $1.25 mil) and its already made that back.
Maybe that doesnt make it a "sucess" but it doesnt make it a loss!

Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 47,810
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Hip To Be Square
15000+ posts
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Hip To Be Square
15000+ posts
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 47,810
Likes: 2
 Originally Posted By: BASAMS The Plumber
that has been debunked in several times even in court. That's the formula studios use to claim profit when issuing points(percentage takes) to artists. Eddie Murphy won some serious $$$ disproving that fallacy.

You cant expect Gay man to accept things like that.
He says "I have to defend a movie I like", while we all know its more about proving him right for not liking a movie!

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