RKMBs Forums .::Robegories::. Comic Books God in comics

and his heart

Well, rainbow patterns are OK and fun, even sexy, for women...



...but for myself I prefer to wear a rainbow in my heart.

As for the HULK magazine cover overall, beyond just the colors, I think it's a pretty damn cool page of (rare) Walt Simonson painted art.




Well, again, that requires some interpretation and oversensitivity on the part of gays. AIDS is not necessarily a gay disease, although about 85% of cases are gay men, particularly gay white men.
There are also cases transmitted through IV drug use, through blood products and blood transfusions, through female prostitutes, and even heterosexual transmission. (Although as I've cited before, the "heterosexual cases" are overwhelmingly women who get HIV through men who are secretly bisexual, so those could more accurately be labeled "homosexual contact".)

I was thinking back to a Saturday Night Live Halloween skit with Adam Sandler as a vampire, and he was seductively asking his intended female victim AIDS/HIV screening questions about her former sex partners, possible hemophelia, etc., before drinking her blood! If such a skit is acceptable for SNL, then an AIDS vampire in comics is arguably just as playfully innoccuous.

People who choose to be offended about something intended to be playful and frivolous will always feel a need to be offended, I guess. I haven't read the story, but it sounds like it was done with humor, and not demagoguing gays.

An example of something that SHOULD rouse an offended response is a Syrian children's show, teaching kids to hate Jews, and a little girl answering a costumed host, saying she hopes she has the chance to kill a lot of Jews when she grows up.
Or the muslim brotherhood-connected Egyptian successor to president Mubarek, comparing Jews to "apes and pigs".
Both examples of rhetoric similar to that of Nazi propaganda, intended to stoke and rationalize genocide against Jews.

Acknowledging with humor in a fantasy vampire story that gays are a large (but not exclusive) risk group to AIDS is not in the same category.

There's nothing sexy about a skeleton wearing rainbow print leggings.

there's also the implication that the woman in that pic has never seen a sandwich in her entire life, which means it's very unlikely that she knows how to make me one. Very unsexy. 1/10, would not bang.

Thank you for that.


As I said, I have no problem with stories that offer a dialogue between the two sides on the subject. But when creators of a story live in a country that identifies in annual polls as about 78% Christian, and more broadly over 90% "believe in God" in some form, it is not reasonable to just rabidly/angrily attack Christians in a story. But to instead more respectfully approach the subject. If the creator of a story critical of religion has no interest in civility, they might at least want to tell the story in a way that has a chance of persuading someone, beyond simply insulting the reader's beliefs.

I think that is a problem both religiously and politically in the U.S., is that both sides often go for "red meat" rhetoric that only appeals to their political base who already share their beliefs. But the rhetoric is so poisonous that it could not possibly persuade anyone who doesn't already share their beliefs.
Needless to say, as a conservative, I see the rhetoric of the left as far more often insulting, hate-filled, demagogic and spiteful. But it embarrasses me when people I agree with use the same kind of poisonous/partisan rhetoric.

I dunno. She's got an extremely flat stomach but the thighs and the butt look like she's got enough meat on her bones.

I'd agree she doesn't have much body fat.
But she still looks pretty round and muscular, particularly in the legs. I agree with G-man on that.

I would definitely take what you leave on the plate, SoM!

I left Lothar on the plate!

Getting back to "God in comics", I really like the SECRET ORIGINS 10 issue (January 1987) that gave four alternative origins for the Phantom Stranger, by four different creative teams.
Three of the four were religious/Christian (if not Biblical) in nature.



I like the Barr and Aparo one the best, centered on a priest of lagging faith, who Phantom Stranger tells his origin to. Where Phantom Stranger was living in the time Jesus was crucified, and for his participation in the crucifixion is condemned to wander the earth for eternity, deprived forever of the family and friendships that others have. This one is the most reverent of the 4 stories.

The second by Paul Levitz and Jose Luis Garcia-Lopez, also set in Biblical times, while spiritual, is less overtly Christian.

the third story, by Dan Mishkin and Ernie Colon/Pablo Marcos, is a more futuristic/alien origin, where his origin and powers are the byproduct of a scientific experiment. Somewhat reminiscent of a Green Lantern/guardians type story. The art is a bit Gil Kane-esque.

The last origin (probably the highlight for most), by Alan Moore and Joe Orlando, centers on when Satan (Lucifer) and the other angels plan a rebellion against God. Phantom Stranger is an angel, and is invited to take part in the rebellion, but stays in the sidelines to not alienate himself from either side. Aspects of the story take on a "better to rule in Hell than serve in Heaven" aspect. Although for the stranger, it isn't better.

The Barr/Aparo and Moore/Orlando stories are both provocative spiritual explorations. I tried to explain the nature of them, without giving you spoilers, if you haven't read them. But regardless, some religion-in-comics stories, or just plain good stories to add to your collection. I think it fills the bill in both categories.

Heh. I have no idea what Short Round is saying.


anyhoo




God was a big deal in this series. It's a good story and I recommend it to everyone.

Kamphausened!

I didn't know you had posted that because I have you blocked.

You dont want to accept my point because you hate gays (self loathing maybe).
The point that AIDs is not exclusive has nothing to do with my point, which is that if you have a gay character, why do you specifically have an AIDs related villain unless you are trying to say its a "gay disease"? Why not have an AIDs vampire attack Batman? Oh I know why, he isnt gay. Thats the logic they were using. Its cliched hack writing, and homophobic.
You then compare to an Adam Sandler sketch which is the complete opposite. He is a vampire who did not want to catch AIDs, and was asking heterosexual women if they had it. How is that the same as a vampire with AIDs specifically created because a character was gay?

He isn't?

Tell that to Dr. Wertham!

But seriously...





I don't "hate" gays. I have a number of friends, classmates and business associates over at least 30 years I've never hesitated to associate with, despite that I disagree with them politically, and believe that homosexuality is (as it was diagnosed until the 1970's) an obsessive disorder and not an "alternative lifestyle".
As a minority of the psych professional community still treats as the obsessive disorder that it is.

They are otherwise often good people, but in some ways flawed. Like the rest of us. But emboldened in their delusion by an agenda by the radical Left to use them as pawns in pursuit of a radical agenda.




A) I've never read the frigging story, so I don't know beyond your sayso what it is, or implies.

B) As I've said elsewhere, I often like stories, and even rank them among my favorites, even though they are by liberal writers with a liberal perspective. I can think of many stories by guys like Dennis O'Neil, Gerry Conway, Mike Friedrich and the like, as well as stories like "Santa Claus vs. S.P.I.D.E.R." and "Hitler Painted Roses" by Harlan Ellison, that playfully mock specific conservatives like Reagan and Nixon, and more broadly Judao-Christian conservative beliefs. But while diametrically opposed to my beliefs, I still enjoy them as well told stories.

So conversely, even if I agreed with the sentiments of the AIDS vampire story you cite (I don't know, I've never read it), that doesn't guarantee that I would endorse the story, just because it allegedly might share my opinion of gays. It might still be crap (close to 100% of comics I've read in the last 10 years are) so even if I agreed with its politics, it could still be a poorly told story.
I recall a gay vampire story back in the late 1980's in CLIVE BARKER: TAPPING THE VEIN, that I found cheap and annoying. (I think illustrated by Craig Russell. It was 30 years ago.)

Conversely, a story among my favorites that had gay characters in SABRE issue 3 (1982), by Don McGregor, Billy Graham and George Freeman. They were characters in a neighboring jail cell, with a universal message about freedom, persecution and friendship, that I felt portrayed the characters with nobility, but without beating the reader over the head with the fact the characters were gay.

Heavy-handedness having replaced any subtlety whatsoever is my biggest complaint with comics of the last 25 years or so.
I'm very old-school.

cod piece? Tights? A boy ward in green hotpants and pixy boots? Its a wonder Bryan Singer didnt reboot the Batman franchise!

And, of course

Y'know, even in a more innocent era, how did they not see the possible interpretation of this stuff?
And it passed the Comics Code inspectors too!

Shouldn't Christian WB be the one starting a thread about God and out and proud MEM be the one turning it gay?

I don't know what your talking about G-man?

That was a good issue. Never had much interest in the Phantom Stranger before than but presented with these different origins the character became interesting to me. The science one was the least interesting for me but just for the fact it was different than the other 3 gave it some merit. It's been a long time since I've read those stories but wasn't the Moore story less about ruling in hell since PG was basically shunned by both sides for not choosing a side? As a kid it just blew my mind that PG had essentially went to hell after being rejected by those in heaven.

I think the point in Alan Moore's story is that Phantom Stranger was not willing to commit to either the angels of Heaven, or the rebel angels of Hell, and as a result was not accepted in either realm, and was thus destined to wander the Earth alone, accepted nowhere else.

Uniquely, this SECRET ORIGINS 10 issue presented 4 different mutually exclusive origins, and perhaps only 4 possible origins, maybe none the Phantom Stranger's actual origin. But 4 good, interesting, and thought-provoking stories.