RKMBs Forums .::Robegories::. Comic Books Jim Starlin interview

Jim Starlin on Creating Thanos, Killing Robin and His Split with Marvel
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SGzUnhvcROs



I'm sorry he didn't talk about his EPIC ILLUSTRATED and DREADSTAR work. Among my favorites. I wish he went more into the behind the scenes about his interaction with creators at Marvel in the 1970's/1980's, but still informative.

Thanos is a ripoff of Darkseid.
Mongul at DC is a ripoff of Thanos, who is a ripoff of Darkseid. And Starlin created both ripoffs. Regardless, Starlin did them well, and both characters rival the popularity of Darkseid.

Overall, particularly in the first 20 years of his career, Starlin had a remarkably high ratio of quality material.

Has anyone not read Starlin's WARLOCK run? That's Basic Comics Collecting 1101. I always prefered WARLOCK to his CAPTAIN MARVEL run. Although they are intertwined. While I saw these on the stands when they came out, I was a little too young to appreciate them. I didn't buy and read them until I was in high school 3 or 4 years after the fact.

And then a few years later they were released again with far better printing in the WARLOCK: SPECIAL EDITION 6-issue reprint series in 1982-1983, when I bought them again and appreciated them even more.
And reprinted again in another 6 issue series in 1990.

Likewise the CAPTAIN MARVEL series was reprinted as a SPECIAL EDITION series. But didn't include the DEATH OF CAPTAIN MARVEL graphic novel in that printing, that originally came out a few years earlier in late 1981. I think the CAPAIN MARVEL collected trade now does reprint Starlin's complete run, including the graphic novel.

After WARLOCK concluded in 1977, Starlin did a story here and there, but no major runs for awhile.

Then Starlin became very visible again doing "Metamorphosis Odyssey" in 1980-1981 in EPIC ILLUSTRATED 1-9, that I thought was a fantastic story, with very sophisticated painted art.
Starlin continued the series with THE PRICE graphic novel in Oct 1981.
And then the DREADSTAR graphic novel in Oct 1982. All with painted art, and equally good.

Then the DREASTAR comics series in Nov 1982, the first series in the Epic comics line. And while it reverted to pen-and-ink art the first 5 issues were equally fantastic.
Afterward, the art remained consistently good for 32 issues, but the story was slightly diminished after those first few issues. I spoke to Starlin at a convention in 1992, and he let on that the lack of energy at that stage was due to Marvel being slow with paying him, which is why he eventually moved with the series to First Comics. But I still enjoyed the series, it was still consistently good until Starlin left as writer/artist, and farmed it out to others.


So those are Starlin's major works. There's a lot of great series work and single issues Starlin did on other characters, but for me those are the ones that are definitively Starlin. And I think for most readers.

I never got into the INFINITY GAUNTLET and other sequels. Others rave about those, but I just considered them weak retreads of what Starlin did perfectly the first time. Kind of like doing sequels to WATCHMEN, or to Englehart/Rogers' DETECTIVE run. That to me was just diminishing a classic. Why mess with perfection?


Although there are a lot of other great shorter works by Starlin.

I've picked up the different reprints as they've come out. At some point I sold the Masterwork and it will probably cost me a bit to pick it up again. It is good stuff!

Glad we can agree on that. Starlin's WARLOCK has remarkable closure, particularly for a time that was unheard of in a comic series.

"Metamorphosis Odyssey" in EPIC ILLUSTRATED 1-9, THE PRICE graphic novel, and the DREADSTAR graphic novel, are all collected in comic book size in the DREADSTAR: THE BEGINNING hardcover, highly recommended. I bought it a few years ago for about 20 bucks, I haven't priced it recently. But like the WARLOCK masterworks hardcover, it's nice to have that Starlin painted art run of the DREADSTAR series all in one volume.

Another favorite of mine from Starlin. The complete Killraven series just came out in a Masterworks hardcover. And while Starlin only ever did this one cover for the series in 1974, it's nice to see his one-time interpretation of the characters. I love the Neal Adams/Chiaramonte work in the first issue of the series (issue 18), the early issues by McGregor where he quickly defined the series despite medicore at best Trimpe art (21-24), McGregor's collaborations with Buckler/Janson (25), and Colan (26), before the series really hit its stride with Craig Russell (in 27-32, 34, 35-37, and 39). With a few fill-in issues by Mantlo and Royer (33), and Mantlo/Giffen ( 38).

That Starlin managed to get a page into one of my favorite series is just the icing on the cake.

I took the liberty of pulling up a chronological list of Starlin's work:

https://www.comics.org/penciller/name/jim%20starlin/sort/chrono/


I'd forgotten about the "Dr Weird" stories Starlin did for several years across several amateur fanzines, before he turned pro in 1972. Without knowing it, I purchased 3 of the 4 issues in October 1972 that published Starlin's first pro work.
An uncredited 2-page story called "The Spell" in HOUSE OF MYSTERY 207.
And a beautiful 6-page story inked by Mike Ploog in JOURNEY INTO MYSTERY 1. And a Starlin-pencilled cover on X-MEN 78.



The first two of which are among my favorites, for the other anthology material in those issues. HOUSE OF MYSTERY 207 has both a beautiful Wrightson cover and an equally beautiful splash page, an innovative and very detailed story by an artist named William Payne who regrettably did very little work in comics (about 30 anthology stories, mostly for DC), the Starlin 2-pager, and "This Evil Demon Loves People" by Sheldon Mayer and Jack Sparling that as a 9 year old kid I found particularly creepy.
JOURNEY INTO MYSTERY 1 starts with a Robert E. Howard adaptation by Thomas/Gil Kane/Palmer, "Dig Me No Grave", and "House" by Englehart/Reese, and concluding with the Skeates/Starlin/Ploog story.
The X-MEN 78 issue I realized after the fact I had picked up back then too. While it wasn't one of my favorites, I still enjoyed it. It was a reprint book with a new Starlin/Tuska/Giacoia cover, back at a time when not many really cared who the X-Men were.



It's amazing to me that Starlin just five months later took over CAPTAIN MARVEL with issue 25 in March 1973, at which point he instantly became one of Marvel's star artists. The first few issues were co-scripted with Mike Friedrich, but it quickly became clear Starlin could sail the ship on his own.

Another Jim Starlin interview, accompanied by Al Milgrom and Al Weiss, mostly covering the 1970's era at Marvel, from COMIC BOOK ARTIST 18.

http://twomorrows.com/comicbookartist/articles/18cosmic.html

I like that it starts out covering their experience as fans in the early/mid 1960's, trying to meet and learn from pro artists like Ditko, early work doing stories in fanzines, in Starlin's case drawing stories and submitting them while serving in Vietnam. Starlin was pretty ballsy, he just looked up artists in the New York phone book, and even persisted after he knew they didn't want to talk!
I'd forgotten that Steve Englehart initially wanted to be an artist and not a writer. I have a story he pencilled, inked by Neal Adams for an early VAMPIRELLA issue.


A part of the interview that stood out for me:




Starlin in another interview said that he was lucky enough to apply at Marvel when they were vastly expanding from like 20 titles to about 40. With some modesty, he said "They were hiring anyone who could pick up a pencil."

I'm glad I read Starlin's WARLOCK run as back issues, because I never would have been able to follow it when it was coming out. First the material that preceded Starlin was very random and all over the place.

The Warlock character debuted as "Him", an experimentally bred human-like creature whose scientist creators didn't give him a name, by Lee and Kirby in FANTASTIC FOUR 66 and 67 (Sept and Oct 1967).
Then a follow-up appearance in THOR 165 and 166 (June and July 1969), also Lee/Kirby.
I think he officially became Warlock in MARVEL PREMIERE 1 and 2, by Thomas and Gil Kane (April and May 1972).
Followed by a WARLOCK series 1-8 in his own title, with a disjointed merry-go-round of different writers including Roy Thomas, Mike Friedrich, and Ron Goulart. And artists Gil Kane, John Buscema, and Bob Brown, and the only consistency across its 8 issues was all were inked by Tom Sutton (bi-monthly, from Aug 1972 till Oct 1973).

Then what few people probably even know about, Warlock orphaned from his own title made a guest appearance across INCREDIBLE HULK 176-178 (June, July, August 1974) in a 3-part story by Thomas/Conway, with art by Trimpe/Abel.

Then Starlin got a shot at the character, revived in STRANGE TALES 178-181 (Feb 1975-Aug 1975). Which apparently was popular enough to revive the WARLOCK title in WARLOCK 9-15 (Oct 1975-Nov 1976) before apparently being unpopular enough to be cancelled again!

And while the series didn't miss a beat in its bimonthly schedule from STRANGE TALES 181 to WARLOCK 9, it wasn't at all clear in 181 that it would be continuing in WARLOCK 9. I could picture a lot of readers picking up STRANGE TALES 182 with Millie the Model (I'm joking, it was a Lee/Ditko Doctor Strange reprint), thinking the series ended there. Starlin probably lost a big chunk of readers who thought the series was cancelled mid-story, unless they were lucky enough to see WARLOCK 9.

And in any case the series was cancelled anyway with WARLOCK 15 (Nov 1976).

With a random Warlock appearance by Mantlo and Byrne in MARVEL TEAM-UP 55 (March 1977).

And then again, only by being very lucky or through psychic osmosis would you know that the WARLOCK series was concluded by Starlin in a 2-part story across AVENGERS ANNUAL 7 and MARVEL 2-IN-ONE ANNUAL 2 sometime in the summer/fall of 1977.

So... it was far easier to buy and read the complete series as back issues and collected form much later, than it was when it came out.

I saw the WARLOCK issues on the stands but as a 12-year-old it didn't interest me and I didn't buy them, probably partly because I would have been walking in mid story, with no easy access to back issues then.
I first read the Starlin WARLOCK stories as backups in FANTASY MASTERPIECES (backup to Lee/Buscema SILVER SURFER reprints), which again got cancelled before the reprint was concluded! So I sought out the back issues at that point in 1980-1981. A comic shop owner guided me to AVENGERS ANNUAL 7, that I thought was the conclusion.
A year or so later a Marvel zombie friend let me know about MARVEL TWO IN ONE ANNUAL 2.

And not even a year later, Marvel released WARLOCK SPECIAL EDITION 1-6 reprinting the entire series in a much nicer format.

And then 10 years later (1990) Marvel reprinted it again in a second 6-issue reprint series. I don't know exactly when someone had the brilliant idea to reprint the whole series in collected book form (although for some reason, they deleted the Byrne story from the trade, possibly from the Masterworks hardcover too.)

So you young pups have no idea how much easier it is to read this stuff now! I had to walk 20 miles each way in the snow to buy these issues! And even then, it took me years to complete the run. Although quite honestly, the chase of seeking out and finally getting these issues and other 60's/70's material was actually kind of fun, even if a prolonged adventure.

A long article on Starlin's almost 50-year on-again/off-again relationship with Marvel.

https://www.vulture.com/2019/04/jim-starlin-creator-of-infinity-war-thanos-hates-marvel.html

I didn't realize just how rocky that relationship has been all along. I knew about Starlin leaving in 1977 because of a clash with Jim Shooter. And when Starlin took his creator-owned DREADSTAR series to First Comics in 1986 because his paychecks from Marvel coming to him with long delays (Starlin himself told me this at a convention).

But it was a surprise that he quit two previous times as early as 1974 and 1975.

And that Stan Lee had Starlin and Gerber removed from IRON MAN after issue 56 because Lee didn't like how they portrayed the characters. At precisely the time Starlin was creating the Thanos storyline, one of the most acclaimed in Marvel history!

And how Starlin parodied Stan Lee and John Romita in the "1,000 Clowns" STRANGE TALES/Warlock story, with villains who were anagrams of their names, as powerful overlords of generating a steady stream of mediocrity and garbage. Much as I loved that storyline, that went right by me! And apparently right by the Marvel editors as well.


The article kind of glosses over the details of the Shooter/Starlin clash when Starlin left after AVENGERS ANNUAL 7 and MARVEL TWO IN ONE ANNUAL 2 (concluding the WARLOCK storyline). Shooter himself made reference to their clashes (before reconciling and becoming friends) in his editorial in DREADSTAR 1 in 1982, a few years after the fact. But I don't know the details beyond that.

Similar to Kirby, Starlin has contributed to Marvel greatly, in terms of profits as well as critical acclaim. And they've likewise mistreated Starlin, one of their greatest talents. Not just once, but over and over.
I'm beginning to wonder if there's anyone Marvel hasn't dicked over.

http://marveluniversity.blogspot.com/2016/03/november-1977-part-one-could-jim.html




So WARLOCK was cancelled with issue 15 because of a clash with Gerry Conway as editor in chief (in that position only June and July 1976). And Starlin briefly quit. I never knew there was a WARLOCK 16 with art by Al Weiss! Apparently pulled from publication by Gerry Conway, after their confrontation.

Then Archie Goodwin became editor in chief (July 1976- Jan 1978) and encouraged Starlin to come back and conclude his WARLOCK storyline in AVENGERS ANNUAL 7 and TWO-IN-ONE ANNUAL 2.

I suspect Starlin quit Marvel in Jan 1978 when Jim Shooter became editor in chief (Jan 1978-Feb 1987). During Shooter's reign, Starlin eventually came back to Marvel in early 1980 working on EPIC ILLUSTRATED and DREADSTAR, but only because he was working for the Epic Comics line, and a few graphic novels, working with editor Archie Goodwin.


In that 1978-1980 period, Starlin did the "Darklon the Mystic" story serialized in EERIE 76 (Aug 1976), 79 (Nov 1976), 80 (Jan 1977), 84( Jun 1977), and 100 (Apr 1979).
Later collected in a one-shot DARKLON THE MYSTIC issue for Pacific Comics, and garishly colored, in Nov 1983.

Starlin also did a lot of work for DC in that 1978-1981 period, in DETECTIVE COMICS 481-482, SUPERBOY/LEGION 239 and 250-251, DC COMICS PRESENTS 26-29, and many covers for LEGION, JLA and the DC mystery titles. I think Starlin's DC and Warren work is his most obscure and least known. And maybe his work for STAR-REACH and ECLIPSE magazine.

Hard to believe that Marvel did ten years of movies, up to and including the Infinity Gauntlet and never bothered to properly introduce Warlock.

Among the scattered few Starlin issues for Marvel in that period I never purchased and don't have are DOCTOR STRANGE 23 (June 1977), 24 (Aug 1977), 25 (Oct 1977) and 26 (Dec 1977).
And AMAZING SPIDERMAN 187 (Dec 1978).

And RAMPAGING HULK magazine 4 (Aug 1977), which I do have.
And a few painted covers for MARVEL PREVIEW and other Marvel magazines.

If there are any other Marvel stories by Starlin in that period, I'm not aware of them.

Yeah, it is kind of odd they wouldn't exploit a character so popular into their movies and other licensing. Although Starlin's WARLOCK wasn't a big seller when it came out, it certainly is now. There's a few comic book/graphic novel trades that I consider on a par with Pink Floyd's Dark Side of the Moon album, that consistently ranks among the 100 best selling albums even decades after its 1971 release. And Starlin's WARLOCK is certainly among them, along with Alan Moore's WATCHMEN and V FOR VENDETTA, and Miller's DARK KNIGHT RETURNS and DAREDEVIL:BORN AGAIN.

I wasn't surprised when Thanos showed up in the Marvel movies. Maybe they're just waiting for the right moment to bring in Warlock.

Starlin had an injury back in 2016, To his hand, face and eye.
https://cosmicbook.news/content/thanos-creator-jim-starlin-hurt-sodastream-accident

I'd imagine he has a huge settlement coming from Sodastream.

In one videotaped interview, Starlin says he doesn't draw anymore, only writes, because his hand cramps up too painfully if he tries to draw.

IRON MAN 55 and 56, Feb and March 1973, what was just another fill-in assignment evolved into Starlin's big break. And remarkably early into his time at Marvel, as Starlin's first published work for Marvel is cover-dated Oct 1972.
First IRON MAN 55 and 56, then CAPTAIN MARVEL 25-34. And at that point, Starlin had already achieved godhood among comics fans.

And a few issues into his CAPTAIN MARVEL run, two issues of MARVEL FEATURE 11 and 12 (two Thing team-up stories), sometimes left out of reprint collections.

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One of my favorite Starlin covers, for DC COMICS PRESENTS 93, May 1986, one of the last issues of the series.
With Superman tangled in a spaghetti-mess of four elongated characters wrapped around him.
Starlin also did work in DC COMICS PRESENTS 26, 27, 28, 29, and 36, 37.
https://viewcomiconline.com/dc-comics-presents-issue-26/

I think Starlin's most obscure and least-known work is the stuff he did between 1977 and 1981 for DC, during the period he had a conflict with editor in chief Jim Shooter and left Marvel.

Here's an oversized wraparound cover Starlin did for SUPERBOY/LEGION 238,April 1978. A reprint issue, of a 2-issue story by Shooter and Swan/Klein from ADVENTURE COMICS issues 359 and 360, Aug and Sept 1967 :
https://i.pinimg.com/originals/8b/93/6b/8b936b07c844e3104b53227cbc0482f4.jpg
https://viewcomiconline.com/superboy-1949-issue-238/

Starlin also did covers and/or interior art on SUPERBOY/LEGION 239 and 250-251. Oddly credited as "Steve Apollo" in the last two issues.
https://viewcomiconline.com/superboy-1949-issue-239/
https://viewcomiconline.com/superboy-1949-issue-250/

At DC, Starlin mostly did interior art and covers for DC COMICS PRESENTS in 1980-1981. But he also did covers for a huge swath of DC titles from 1977-1981, including BATMAN, DETECTIVE, BATMAN FAMILY, DC SPECIAL SERIES, JLA, KAMANDI, HOUSE OF MYSTERY, HOUSE OF SECRETS, GHOSTS, SECRETS OF HAUNTED HOUSE, WEIRD WAR TALES and others.


DC SPECIAL SERIES 12, June 1979

Why I've always liked DC more than Marvel, it allowed Starlin to do work in a huge range of genres, whereas his Marvel work was mostly limited to superheroes, some having a science fiction edge. But at DC, in addition to seeing Starlin's version of all the DC characters, he worked on science fiction, war, westerns, horror, and humor. So while not well known, Starlin's work at DC in this period gives a large selection of pages that are pretty far outside what he is normally known to work on, and at the peak of his talent.

In this same period, Starlin did some painted magazine covers for MARVEL PREVIEW (issues 13 and 14) , SAVAGE SWORD OF CONAN 26, and other black and white magazines.

Starlin's "Metamorphosis Odyssey" series in EPIC ILLUSTRATED 1-9.
https://viewcomiconline.com/epic-illustrated-issue-1/

THE DEATH OF CAPTAIN MARVEL (Marvel graphic novel 1, Dec 1981),
https://viewcomiconline.com/marvel-graphic-novel-issue-1-the-death-of-captain-marvel/

THE PRICE graphic novel for Eclipse (Oct 1981),
https://viewcomiconline.com/the-price-full/

and DREADSTAR (Marvel graphic novel 3, Oct 1982),
https://viewcomiconline.com/marvel-graphic-novel-issue-03-dreadstar/

after which he worked exclusively for Marvel/Epic a few years, doing the DREADSTAR comic series, issues 1-32.
https://viewcomiconline.com/category/dreadstar/

For my money, Starlin's greatest work. The earlier painted art issues in particular.

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BATMAN FAMILY 18 and 20, July and Nov 1978, both with Starlin 2-page wraparound covers.
https://viewcomiconline.com/batman-family-v1-18/
https://viewcomiconline.com/batman-family-v1-20/

Starlin/Russell interior art (a two-part story) in DETECTIVE COMICS 481 and 482, Jan and March 1979, among nice work by O'Neil, Wein, Rogers, Golden, Giordano and others in these issues. Starlin wraparound cover also on 481.
https://viewcomiconline.com/detective-comics-v1-0481/
https://viewcomiconline.com/detective-comics-v1-0482/



Starlin cover for DETECTIVE COMICS 503, June 1981. Interior art by Don Newton.
Starlin cover also on DETECTIVE COMICS 504, July 1981.

Much later, Starlin cover and interior art also in BATMAN 402, Dec 1986
https://viewcomiconline.com/batman-v1-402/
Starlin also scripted stories after in 414-430, drawn by Aparo and other artists, culminating in "A Death In the Family", killing off Robin (Jason Todd) in BATMAN 426-429, Dec 1988-Mar 1989.
https://viewcomiconline.com/batman-v1-426/

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Some of you might not be aware (although Starlin discusses it in just about every interview I linked) that he did fanzine work before he turned pro in 1972, and mostly did several Dr. WEIRD stories across multiple different fanzines, from 1970-1972. He was in the military mailing in his completed stories during about 2 years of that time.

So...
Here's a one-shot special from 1994, that collects a lot of those stories, and has interviews with those involved, that includes not just Jim Starlin, but also science fiction writer George R. R. Martin, and they also talk about their involvement with mycomicshop.com owner and 1970's comics and science fiction writer Buddy Saunders, and others involved in 1960's/early 1970's comic fandom and amateur fanzines and conventions.
Maybe not the best stuff you've ever seen, but still very nice amateur work from Starlin before he broke in doing pro work for Marvel and DC.
And a great little time capsule of hard to find stories

DR WEIRD SPECIAL
https://comiconlinefree.net/dr-weird-special/issue-full/full



Here's an editorial on the early days of DR WEIRD across many fanzines, and covers of many early issues, by one of the collaborators involved, Gary Carlson :
https://bigbangcomics.com/bang-blog/chronological-big-bang-comics-megaton-x-ma/

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I read an article a few days ago, I think in an issue of COMIC BOOK ARTIST, that despite Starlin's clash with briefly editor-in-chief Gerry Conway, the pages for WARLOCK 16 by Starlin/Weiss were lost when Al Weiss accidentally left them in a New York City cab and they were never recovered, so that even when Goodwin became managing editor and the clash with Starlin was resolved, the Weiss story could never be published.

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A Starlin odditty, this story I just discovered from MY LOVE 20, cover-dated Nov 1972 :

https://viewcomiconline.com/my-love-issue-20/

Uncredited in the 7-page lead story, scripted by Gary Friedrich, pencilled by Starlin, inked by Jack Abel.

In the Comics.org listing, it says the story credits were verified by Gary Friedrich. And somehow is credited as Starlin's first published story, even though I already cited his first four published works appeared in Oct 1972, one month earlier.
Maybe this story was Starlin's first work sold, though it appeared in print later.
In any case, how often are you going to see a romance story by Jim Starlin?
Steranko also did a romance story for Marvel, as I recall the last story Steranko did for Marvel, after which Steranko only did covers for Marvel beyond that point.

There are several other early uncredited covers that are both attributed and disputed to be Starlin on Comics.org's list.


An updated link, since the above ComicOnlineFree link seems to be temporarily or permanently down :

DR WEIRD SPECIAL
https://viewcomiconline.com/dr-weird-special-full/

And Starlin's other earliest stories I mentioned above...

https://viewcomiconline.com/journey-into-mystery-1972-issue-1/ "Show Me Your Dream.." 6p, Starlin p / Ploog inks
https://viewcomiconline.com/house-of-mystery-1951-issue-207/ "The Spell" 2 pages
https://viewcomiconline.com/uncanny-x-men-1963-issue-78/ cover only : Tuska, Starlin p / Giacoia inks
https://viewcomiconline.com/amazing-spider-man-v1-113/ 22p story, Romita Sr.and Starlin p / Romiaa Sr. and Morrtellaro inks