I've known for a while that wages are rising rapidly in China, so even before coronavirus, and because of Chinese stealing of trade secrets from companies in China, and now because of the Covid-19 pandemic, jobs and businesses are leaving China and moving to other countries. An interesting look at the nations that are benefitting from the exodus of businesses away from China.
About 30 minutes ago, I saw aerial video footage (from a drone or helicopter) of protests outside the Minneapolis mayor's office, in protest to what they perceive as excessive restrictions with the stay-at-home orders. I don't know exactly where you live, M E M, but that's either your hometown or pretty close to home for you, right? And those protests are occurring all over the country, in Michigan, Ohio, Kentucky, Virginia, Texas...
It doesn't help these protesting people to take restrictive measures seriously when Democrat mayors and governors start playing partisan games, targeting their political opposition shutting down and fining churchgoers, while things like supermarkets or drugstores right across the street that would have roughly the same social distancing (or lack thereof) requirements stay open. And especially restriction of only gun stores and churches, while marijuana shops, liquor stores and abortion clinics remain open. That's pretty selective banning and social distancing of political groups these political leaders don't like.
Or where you can shop at, say a Wal-Mart or a Home Depot, where you're allowed to buy groceries and other items, but not tools or paint or lawn-seed in the same store! Regardless of politics, just arbitrary and confusing with no clear logic, just inconveniencing people. It's a formula for provoking angry mobs of protestors, for a governor or mayor to not even hear their complaints and explain, and outlaw redressing their grievances as a ":non-essential" activity. (That pesky First Amendment, soon to be replaced by the new authoritarian socialist order. If not already, it seems.)
And the Michigan governor Gretchen Whitmer (on the short list to be Joseph Biden's token woman who might check the P.C. boxes to be his promised female Vice Presidential running mate) has really damaged herself politically with her condescending and defiant reaction to protests in Lansing, Michigan. Yesterday, Governor Whitmer defiantly said you can protest all you want, but I'm not lightening restrictions. That she's just ignoring the protests, no explaanation, no compromise. That is a remarkably tone-deaf response! A more responsible leader might agree to a private or televised meeting with some of the more eloquent protest leaders, and either compromise a little, or at least defend logically her restrictions. But what she's doing is pretty conssistent with past Democrats like Barack Obama ("people who cling to their guns and religion and their antipathy to people not like them..."), Hillary Clinton or Stacy Abrams or Andrew Gillum and other Dems, where if you disagree with my policy you're a moron, so just shut up and take it. They could listen and debate, or even compromise just a little.
But no. Let them eat cake.
Frankly I began sheltering at home weeks before there was an official order. But I'm sympathetic to those who either can't, or are offended by the apparent political motivation of the restrictions, or at least object to the inconsistent logic and brutal enforcement and fines. To the point that many Michigan police departments refuse to enforce or fine those not cooperating. No one should be fined $500 per person for having essentialy a drive-in church service in a parking lot, where they all stayed in their cars and listened to their pastor's broadcast on their individual car radios. They were not even given an initial warning, jus immediately given huge fines without the slightest advance notice of the new law, and one guy I cited earlier arrsted in a park right in front of his traumatized 6-year-old daughter.
That said, if I were to protest in the streets, I'd at least wear a protective mask and social distance. If I were leading these protests, I'd advise everyone protesting to not allow Dems and the liberal media to focus on anything other than the issues raised by the protest. But it could be argued that the protestors by not wearing protective masks and social-distancing are making the point that the threat is vastly exaggerated and just a way to control people. With 35,000 dead now (yesterday 2,500 in one day) I'm not willing to go along with that, but I concedethe point that far more people die of heart disease, car accidents, drunk driving deaths, drug overdoses, cancer and many other things, without a complete shutdown of society to prevent more deaths by these things. And at some point if not already, this complete shutdown will create a permanent loss of businesses, jobs, and ruined lives and careers, that will be very hard to replace later. We already have more unemployed now than during the worst years of the Great Depression. And that snowball continues to grow rolling down the mountain. I'm sincerely concerned about a resultant global economic collapse.
I'm convinced that Demcorats want this shutdown to last until it damages Trump badly enough that it prevents his re-election, their greatest motivation. But with Pelosi and Schumer obstructing aid to businesses and workers (two weeks ago, and again right now), that is quickly blowing up in their faces, not Trump's. I think Gov. Whitmer's lack of nuance and acting like an authoritarian defiant queen instead an elected leader has taken her off Biden's short list.
I'd also point out that European nations like Sweden, Denmark, Austria and Germany, many of them hit the same or worse than the United States, are likewise gradually or completely re-opening their businesses and schools.
But somehow it is considered blasphemous and "murdering people" (MSNBC, CNN) to consider the realities of needing to do so at some point in the United States.
At the daily Coronavirus press conference yesterday, Dr. Deborah Birx cited that 33% of counties in the U.S. have not been affected by Covid-19 at all. And another large slice have not had a new Covid-19 case in 7 to 14 days. The federal government at the same press conference offered a 3-step advisory to states of how to gradually re-open their economies, on the precondition of a lack of new cases, and having the medical preparedness to contain new cases and potentially have a new shelter-at-home if a new outbreak were to occur. As cited in the above linked article, even West-coast Democrat governors, and even New York Gov. Andrew Cuomo in the hardest-hit state, are all looking toward re-opening their states' economies.
Dogs might join the good fight to prevent the spread of the coronavirus in humans–especially for those who are symptom free, according to a team of researchers.
Due to the urgent need of coronavirus testing, preparations to intensively train dogs to detect asymptomatic [carriers] of the virus have started and could be ready in six weeks, according to the London School of Hygiene and Tropical Medicine.
“It’s [in the] very early stages,” says James Logan, head of LSHTM’s Department of Disease Control.
“We know diseases have odors — including respiratory diseases such as influenza — and that those odors are in fact quite distinct. There is a very, very good chance that Covid-19 has a specific odor, and if it does I am really confident that the dogs would be able to learn that smell and detect it.”
Dogs have a highly developed sense of smell and are able to sniff out subtle changes in skin temperature –they already are used to diagnosis various medical conditions in humans like malaria, diabetes, Parkinson’s disease and cancer.
The LSHTM has even trained Labradors and cocker spaniels to detect malaria–by sniffing.
“Our previous work demonstrated that dogs can detect odors from humans with a malaria infection with extremely high accuracy — above the World Health Organization standards for a diagnostic,” said Logan in a press release.
If the project is successful, dogs will be able supplement ongoing testing by screening for the virus accurately and could “triage” 250 people per hour– by the summer in England.
This is the second time I've seen this reported in 2 days.
We already have dogs that are trained to find drugs and explosives. Several years ago I saw a story about dogs being able to detect cancer in humans. Amid a lot of bad news, how cool is this?
About 30 minutes ago, I saw aerial video footage (from a drone or helicopter) of protests outside the Minneapolis mayor's office, in protest to what they perceive as excessive restrictions with the stay-at-home orders. I don't know exactly where you live, M E M, but that's either your hometown or pretty close to home for you, right? And those protests are occurring all over the country, in Michigan, Ohio, Kentucky, Virginia, Texas...
It doesn't help these protesting people to take restrictive measures seriously when Democrat mayors and governors start playing partisan games, targeting their political opposition shutting down and fining churchgoers, while things like supermarkets or drugstores right across the street that would have roughly the same social distancing (or lack thereof) requirements stay open. And especially restriction of only gun stores and churches, while marijuana shops, liquor stores and abortion clinics remain open. That's pretty selective banning and social distancing of political groups these political leaders don't like.
Or where you can shop at, say a Wal-Mart or a Home Depot, where you're allowed to buy groceries and other items, but not tools or paint or lawn-seed in the same store! Regardless of politics, just arbitrary and confusing with no clear logic, just inconveniencing people. It's a formula for provoking angry mobs of protestors, for a governor or mayor to not even hear their complaints and explain, and outlaw redressing their grievances as a ":non-essential" activity. (That pesky First Amendment, soon to be replaced by the new authoritarian socialist order. If not already, it seems.)
And the Michigan governor Gretchen Whitmer (on the short list to be Joseph Biden's token woman who might check the P.C. boxes to be his promised female Vice Presidential running mate) has really damaged herself politically with her condescending and defiant reaction to protests in Lansing, Michigan. Yesterday, Governor Whitmer defiantly said you can protest all you want, but I'm not lightening restrictions. That she's just ignoring the protests, no explaanation, no compromise. That is a remarkably tone-deaf response! A more responsible leader might agree to a private or televised meeting with some of the more eloquent protest leaders, and either compromise a little, or at least defend logically her restrictions. But what she's doing is pretty conssistent with past Democrats like Barack Obama ("people who cling to their guns and religion and their antipathy to people not like them..."), Hillary Clinton or Stacy Abrams or Andrew Gillum and other Dems, where if you disagree with my policy you're a moron, so just shut up and take it. They could listen and debate, or even compromise just a little.
But no. Let them eat cake.
Frankly I began sheltering at home weeks before there was an official order. But I'm sympathetic to those who either can't, or are offended by the apparent political motivation of the restrictions, or at least object to the inconsistent logic and brutal enforcement and fines. To the point that many Michigan police departments refuse to enforce or fine those not cooperating. No one should be fined $500 per person for having essentialy a drive-in church service in a parking lot, where they all stayed in their cars and listened to their pastor's broadcast on their individual car radios. They were not even given an initial warning, jus immediately given huge fines without the slightest advance notice of the new law, and one guy I cited earlier arrsted in a park right in front of his traumatized 6-year-old daughter.
That said, if I were to protest in the streets, I'd at least wear a protective mask and social distance. If I were leading these protests, I'd advise everyone protesting to not allow Dems and the liberal media to focus on anything other than the issues raised by the protest. But it could be argued that the protestors by not wearing protective masks and social-distancing are making the point that the threat is vastly exaggerated and just a way to control people. With 35,000 dead now (yesterday 2,500 in one day) I'm not willing to go along with that, but I concedethe point that far more people die of heart disease, car accidents, drunk driving deaths, drug overdoses, cancer and many other things, without a complete shutdown of society to prevent more deaths by these things. And at some point if not already, this complete shutdown will create a permanent loss of businesses, jobs, and ruined lives and careers, that will be very hard to replace later. We already have more unemployed now than during the worst years of the Great Depression. And that snowball continues to grow rolling down the mountain. I'm sincerely concerned about a resultant global economic collapse.
I'm convinced that Demcorats want this shutdown to last until it damages Trump badly enough that it prevents his re-election, their greatest motivation. But with Pelosi and Schumer obstructing aid to businesses and workers (two weeks ago, and again right now), that is quickly blowing up in their faces, not Trump's. I think Gov. Whitmer's lack of nuance and acting like an authoritarian defiant queen instead an elected leader has taken her off Biden's short list.
I don’t think you were convinced to be honest. You have been reliable with whatever pro-Trump talking point is being used. The reality is yesterday Trump put out federal guidelines for reopening the economy. Today he tweeted support for those protesting against those very guidelines the governors are using for shelter in place. What exactly does Trump mean by liberate? We’re in the middle of a pandemic and we get that crap? If it were just the adult protesters risking their own health I honestly wouldn’t mind but I saw a lot of kids at that protest today. And health care workers are a chunk of the fatalities so far so it’s really upsetting to see so many stupid people pack in a crowd at the governor’s mansion risking so many others.
I don’t think you were convinced to be honest. You have been reliable with whatever pro-Trump talking point is being used. The reality is yesterday Trump put out federal guidelines for reopening the economy. Today he tweeted support for those protesting against those very guidelines the governors are using for shelter in place. What exactly does Trump mean by liberate?
That's a rather slanted accusation, that doessn't resemble what I actually said. I'm an independent thinker who happens to agree with Trump on a lot of issues, but on several occasions have questioned the logic of particcular Trump decisions, some f them pretty angrily, even earlier in this topic. I haven't been the slightest bit shy about voicing my opinion when I disagree with Trump.
Trump is not ordering the premature opening of the country, he is just laying out a general 3-phase national standard of criteria for 50 individual governors to open their states. And as I said just a post above, the DEMOCRAT governors of Washington, Oregon, and California, and even Gov Andrew Cuomo of the worst hit New York state, HAVE ALL EXPRESSED THE EXACT SAME DESIRE TO SET DOWN A TIMELINE FOR RE-OPENING THEIR STATES!
These Democrat governors you hold to a different standard, and don't don't seethe your irrational hate for these Democrats, despite that they have voiced THE EXACT SAME OPINION AND OBJECTIVES AS TRUMP.
Originally Posted By: M E M
We’re in the middle of a pandemic and we get that crap? If it were just the adult protesters risking their own health I honestly wouldn’t mind but I saw a lot of kids at that protest today. And health care workers are a chunk of the fatalities so far so it’s really upsetting to see so many stupid people pack in a crowd at the governor’s mansion risking so many others.
Again, I've been sheltering at home for 5 weeks, I clearly don't agree with them or advocate the same thing. And as I said above already, even if I did, I'd be out there with a protective face mask and personal-distancing, if only not to give Democrats like yourself a distraction from the real issue to deceitfully focus on. But at the same time, I at least see their point of view. Tucker Carlson on his show last night (Thursday, April 16th) looked at Sweden that has done none of the shelter-at-home measures that we have, and yet only has roughly the same number of cases (I would link to it for you, if the liberal censor Winston Smiths at Youtube hadn't already deleted it.) Carlson also cited in the same piece that Norway did a complete lockdown like we did, and yet Norway and Sweden have virtually the same number of hospitalizations and deaths.
I counter that by saying the purpose was to "flatten the curve", and dissenting from that POV that those vulnerable will die anyway, less infected the first month means less infected the 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th 6th month, who might not get it at all for having avoided that first wave. But even if they get it later, as in the examples of hydroxychloroquine, or remdesevir drugs, if they get it a ew months later, they might have treatments to avoid severe illness, hospitalization or death in just a month or two. If Doctors find ways to vastly reduce or eliminate deaths of Covid-19/Wuhan Flu, that alone does a lot to reduce fear enough that people would no longer be afraid to go to jobs or restaurants, and I think at that point the economy would bounce back quickly.
So... I don't see where that is "reliable with whatever the Trump talking points are". I disagree with these protestors, but I don't see where what I said aligns with either what Trump is saying, or what the protestors are saying. I think it's a fact that if you can shop at a Michigan or Minnesota Walmart and buy groceries, it doesn't make sense that it creates more of a danger if you buy paint or lawn-seed in the same store while there. Or that you're infecting people by being one of 20 separate carss in a parking lot listing to aa pastor's radio broadcast on your car stereo, to the point that it warrants being arrested or getting a $500 fine with no prior warnings of that law.
Or that you can't do either of the 2 aabove things, or go to a retail gun store, but you can go to a marijuaana shop, or a liquor store, or an abortion clinic. How are any of those any less risky? Except that these are conservative actiuvities and businesses, that a Democrat governor shuts down, while leaving the liberal businesses and activities open. And both alcohol and marijuana lower immunity and increase risk of Covid-19 infection.
Amid your irrational hate, strain yourself to come up with a logical and consistent answer.
Hong Kong (CNN Business) — Half of the world's countries have approached the International Monetary Fund for emergency loans to weather the financial crisis sparked by the global coronavirus pandemic. More than 100 countries so far have asked for emergency assistance, Kristalina Georgieva, IMF's managing director, told a meeting of G20 finance ministers and central bank governors on Wednesday.
She said the IMF is ready to use its "full toolbox and $1 trillion firepower" of lending capacity, noting that 10 countries have so far received emergency funding, and half of the remaining countries should receive their requested financial lifelines by the end of April. Georgieva's comments come after the fund issued a stark warning that the global economy is on track for the deepest downturn since the 1930s and governments and health officials must work together to prevent an even worse outcome.
The IMF head said "everything is on the table in terms of measures we can take," and encouraged central banks to "spend as much as you can." "But keep the receipts," she added. "We don't want accountability and transparency to take a back seat in this crisis."
In an interview with CNBC, the IMF chief acknowledged that the fund has a reputation for imposing tough conditions on countries seeking bailouts. But this time, "we are asking for one thing only: Please pay your doctors and nurses, make sure that your health systems are functioning, and that your vulnerable people and first [responders] are protected," Georgieva told the network.
The IMF said on Tuesday that it expects global GDP will contract by 3% in 2020, a far worse recession than the one that followed the global financial crisis of 2008, and a 180-degree reversal of its previous forecast in January when it was expecting growth of 3.3% this year. The fund said there is a risk of the recession extending into 2021 if policymakers fail to coordinate a global response to the virus.
The entire world is at the brink of economic collapse. The nation to blame for that is China.
I wonder how M E M will twist this to make it somehow all Trump's fault.
In all seriousness, when will the Democrats finally set aside their Bolshevik propaganda and "never let a crisis go to waste" insurrectionist games, and begin to seriously address what's happening, in the U.S. and in the world?
While Youtube leaves it up, Ingraham explores some of the paradoxes of what is officially reported in the first 25 minutes of the show.
A month ago: don't wear masks. Now: it's absolutely necessary to wear a mask when you're in public. (The public was lied to, so that masks would be available for hospital medical workers treating Covid-19 patients. )
We were sheltered-at-home to flatten the curve. Now that the curve iss flattened to way less cases than was initially projected (from 1 to 2.5 million, down to 100,000-250,000, down now to a maximum 60,000 projected. ) But now many governors, mostly Democrat governors, want to shut down the country indefinitely. Tucker Carlson in his Thursday and Friday programs makes the point that it is logical to let those least at risk go back to work, and only shelter those most at risk, the elderly and immune-compromised. There are currently more unemployed now than in the worst years of the Great Depression (although as a percentage of population, it is currently lower, but unemployment and business closures are rising fast.)
I frankly think the strategy by Democrats is to stall the economy and hurt Trump politically for as long as possible. Likewise in the section 20 minutes in, with the Republican Texas governor, where Democrats are doing nothing (for the second time in two weeks!) stalling legislation that would give aid to about 23 million families who have been completely deprived of income and grocery money. Democrats are deliberately creating chaos, because they think it benefits them politically.
As detailed on Tucker Carlson Thursday night, he cited that in Sweden where they are not sheltering and closing businesses, they have proportionately the same ratio of hospitalizations as the U.S. And likewise, the same as Norway right next door, that is sheltering and closing businesses. And that Austria, Denmark and Germany are planning to re-open schools and other businesses. So while Dems resist any move in that direction, it has to be done (carefully, of course) at some point. Before the entire economic system, and interconnected global economic system, collapses.
As I cited above, half the nations on earth are begging for loans from the IMF, before their nations collapse. The U.S. likewise has the same vulnerability, and thus has to balance economic survival with virus containment. South Korea has shown the way, never having shut down their economy, instead focusing vigorously on testing and locking down new reported cases and their contacts only, not their entire society.
To me the game-changer is when they discover effective treatment that stops the deaths, so the virus becomes inconvenient but not life-threatening. They are having effective results with new treatments such as 1) Hydroxychloroquine, 2) Remdesivir, and 3) blood plasm from revovered patients, to inject blood plasm with antibodies into the sick, to teach their own blood how to make and mass-produce antibodies.
So hopefully in the next 4 weeks or less, the tide will turn, and a majority of those hospitalized will recover instead of dying, with therapies that didn't exist a month ago.
Tucker Carlson last night (Friday, April 17th) detailed the origins of the outbreak in China and cover-up, their propaganda campaign to attack Trump through their agents and friendly Democrat officials in the U.S., and inteviewing Dr. Marc Siegel, talks about some of the emerging effective therapies for treating Covid-19, including Remdesivir, blood plasma with antibodies from recovered patients, and Hydroxychloroquine. And "non-essential surgeries" being cancelled such as hip replacement, knee replacement, cancer removal surgery, and dental work. Which left untreated, could become life-threatening. These are "non-essential". But abortions in states like Michigan are given priority and still being done, as "essential", by Governor Whitmer. Who by the way, also was blocking the use of Hydroxychloroquine to save the lives of Covid-19 patients in Michigan until recently.
Over the last two years, my mother had 3 hospital visits and surgeries, a hip replacement and a knee replacement. Speaking to her on the phone last night, I discussed with her how lucky she is that she got all that out of the way, about 6 months before all this Covid-19 outbreak and "non-essential surgeries" cancellations began.
I don’t think you were convinced to be honest. You have been reliable with whatever pro-Trump talking point is being used. The reality is yesterday Trump put out federal guidelines for reopening the economy. Today he tweeted support for those protesting against those very guidelines the governors are using for shelter in place. What exactly does Trump mean by liberate?
That's a rather slanted accusation, that doessn't resemble what I actually said. I'm an independent thinker who happens to agree with Trump on a lot of issues, but on several occasions have questioned the logic of particcular Trump decisions, some f them pretty angrily, even earlier in this topic. I haven't been the slightest bit shy about voicing my opinion when I disagree with Trump.
Trump is not ordering the premature opening of the country, he is just laying out a general 3-phase national standard of criteria for 50 individual governors to open their states. And as I said just a post above, the DEMOCRAT governors of Washington, Oregon, and California, and even Gov Andrew Cuomo of the worst hit New York state, HAVE ALL EXPRESSED THE EXACT SAME DESIRE TO SET DOWN A TIMELINE FOR RE-OPENING THEIR STATES!
These Democrat governors you hold to a different standard, and don't don't seethe your irrational hate for these Democrats, despite that they have voiced THE EXACT SAME OPINION AND OBJECTIVES AS TRUMP.
Originally Posted By: M E M
We’re in the middle of a pandemic and we get that crap? If it were just the adult protesters risking their own health I honestly wouldn’t mind but I saw a lot of kids at that protest today. And health care workers are a chunk of the fatalities so far so it’s really upsetting to see so many stupid people pack in a crowd at the governor’s mansion risking so many others.
Again, I've been sheltering at home for 5 weeks, I clearly don't agree with them or advocate the same thing. And as I said above already, even if I did, I'd be out there with a protective face mask and personal-distancing, if only not to give Democrats like yourself a distraction from the real issue to deceitfully focus on. But at the same time, I at least see their point of view. Tucker Carlson on his show last night (Thursday, April 16th) looked at Sweden that has done none of the shelter-at-home measures that we have, and yet only has roughly the same number of cases (I would link to it for you, if the liberal censor Winston Smiths at Youtube hadn't already deleted it.) Carlson also cited in the same piece that Norway did a complete lockdown like we did, and yet Norway and Sweden have virtually the same number of hospitalizations and deaths.
I counter that by saying the purpose was to "flatten the curve", and dissenting from that POV that those vulnerable will die anyway, less infected the first month means less infected the 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th 6th month, who might not get it at all for having avoided that first wave. But even if they get it later, as in the examples of hydroxychloroquine, or remdesevir drugs, if they get it a ew months later, they might have treatments to avoid severe illness, hospitalization or death in just a month or two. If Doctors find ways to vastly reduce or eliminate deaths of Covid-19/Wuhan Flu, that alone does a lot to reduce fear enough that people would no longer be afraid to go to jobs or restaurants, and I think at that point the economy would bounce back quickly.
So... I don't see where that is "reliable with whatever the Trump talking points are". I disagree with these protestors, but I don't see where what I said aligns with either what Trump is saying, or what the protestors are saying. I think it's a fact that if you can shop at a Michigan or Minnesota Walmart and buy groceries, it doesn't make sense that it creates more of a danger if you buy paint or lawn-seed in the same store while there. Or that you're infecting people by being one of 20 separate carss in a parking lot listing to aa pastor's radio broadcast on your car stereo, to the point that it warrants being arrested or getting a $500 fine with no prior warnings of that law.
Or that you can't do either of the 2 aabove things, or go to a retail gun store, but you can go to a marijuaana shop, or a liquor store, or an abortion clinic. How are any of those any less risky? Except that these are conservative actiuvities and businesses, that a Democrat governor shuts down, while leaving the liberal businesses and activities open. And both alcohol and marijuana lower immunity and increase risk of Covid-19 infection.
Amid your irrational hate, strain yourself to come up with a logical and consistent answer.
To be clear the Governors are following the federal guidelines that Trump is basically playing both ways. The last couple of days conservative groups have organized protests against the governors for following those federal guidelines. Yesterday I watched such a packed crowd around my governor’s mansion while shitbag tweeted about liberating MN. In a middle of a highly contagious pandemic that’s the leadership Trump offers. That crosses over into just being evil. These governors have had to do a lot of heavy lifting and making quick decisions during this pandemic. I know my governor unlike Trump does take responsibility for his decisions. The deaths weigh on him as do the economic costs. And yes some decisions on what was closed can be debated and changed. Governor Walz initially didn’t allow lawn care as being essential. At the time we still had snow for most of the state so it really was a non factor but he’s changed that so it’s essential now. I think what you’ll see is a shift to opening things up via curbside service for stores that had to shut down previously and other ways to open things up without risking spreading coronavirus.
Sweden has not shut down their country but they have some cultural differences and a lot stronger welfare system that we do not. Prior to this pandemic, if I was sick I still went to work as most people do in this country. In Sweden that doesn’t happen apparently. People stay home if their sick there. Also it appears that not wearing masks in public during a pandemic is really socially frowned upon. It will be interesting to see what the end result is for them but it could be a case of that many of the things you oppose ideologically are helping that country during a pandemic. Other countries that seem to be faring better also have strong welfare states and did shut things down quickly.
When you use that kind of rhetoric, M E M, YOU are the "shitbag". I've detailed at length all the things that Trump has done to protect the country that no other president would have done. If Obama or Hillary or Biden were president now, tha casualties would be in the millions, as originally estimated.
Your side that exonerates the TRUE architects of this genocide, the Chinese are the ones who are demonstrably evil. They side with murderous communist propagandists against our own country. And in the examples of Joseph Biden and son Hunter Biden and the Clintons, are paid off well in the tens of millions for betraying us.
If your party had the presidency, we would be doomed. With your party having the slightest shred of power, they are doing their best to undermine and destroy us anyway, through their obstruction, inaction, and pro-China propaganda.
I didn't see specifics listed for the "welfare states" that are allegedly saving the day in European populations. Italy, Germany, Spain, and France suffered terribly and had huge losses. "Herd immunity" was attempted in Britain, and then aborted because of massing losses. The "welfare state" approach was just to let the virus run wild and run its course through the population. Early on, Merkel in Germany estimated that at least 80% fo the population would get the virus. The only saving grace in Germany is that they early on ordered tens of thousands of ventilator machines for those anticipated to be hospitalized, and even so, were nearly overwhelmed. Alone among European nations, Germany had high hospitalizations but few deaths. In Spain, a princess of the royal family was among those who died. None of that sounds like salvation by the welfare state to me.
Originally Posted By: M E M
To be clear the Governors are following the federal guidelines that Trump is basically playing both ways.
That's a flatout lie. Trump didn't order any state to arrest a man for playing ball in a park with his 6 year old daughter, or to fine Christians $500 each for congregating in a parking lot in separate cars to listen to their pastor's radio broadcast. Or to release prisoners to rob, while closing gun shops so residents can't exercise their 2nd Amendment right to defend themselves. Or to selectively close those conservative businesses, while leaving open liquor stores, Marijuana shops, and abortion clinics. Trump didn't order Governor Whitmer of Michigan to buy some things in a store, but not allow them to buy lawn-seed or paint. If they were in shelter-at-home, these purchases would allow them to pass the time at home doing repairs and home improvements. It was Democrat governors who arbitrarily decided on these conservative-targeting over-reaches, NOT on Trump's orders, but exerting Democrat over-reaches that stirred rebellion against Trump's guidelines.
Originally Posted By: M E M
The last couple of days conservative groups have organized protests against the governors for following those federal guidelines.
No, that's a lie and a distortion. The protests were against arbitrary, excessive and partisan over-reaches, NOT against the federal guidelines themselves. As I've made clear in detail where the two separate.
No I’m calling Trump a shitbag for specific shitbaggy things he does He’s lied often during this pandemic, takes no responsibility and is now inciting his supporters to break the social distancing that his administration has for guidelines. I see his poll numbers back down while many governors numbers going up. And I think it was always foolish to trust China to be transparent. It was stupid of Trump to gush so much about China’s help early on while at the same time attacking the media for overhyping the threat of coronavirus.
And Trump tweeted “liberate MN” and I don’t see Gov Walz being that draconian in his shelter in place. That was just disgusting of Trump to do. I would also point out Michigan is one of the hardest hit states with coronavirus. That governor like the others are trying to reduce deaths with these temporary shelter in place measures. Not all of these quickly enacted measures make sense but those that refuse to practice social distancing measures while protesting are making things worse. Operation Gridlock actually ended up blocking access to hospital. Trump needs to stfu but instead he’s inciting this crap.
I would also point out that the governor in Mississippi explicitly spoke out against local overreaction like with the 500 fines for churchgoers in a parking lot. Governor denounces crackdown on churches
Quote:
“Don’t trample the Constitution,” he said.
But the governor also had some advice for congregations across the Magnolia State — be prudent.
“I’ve asked all pastors not to hold these services, but we ordered churches safe from these outrageous actions,” he said. “Please use sense, everybody.”
Looks to me like blaming the Governor is misplaced here.
No I’m calling Trump a shitbag for specific shitbaggy things he does He’s lied often during this pandemic, takes no responsibility and is now inciting his supporters to break the social distancing that his administration has for guidelines. I see his poll numbers back down while many governors numbers going up. And I think it was always foolish to trust China to be transparent. It was stupid of Trump to gush so much about China’s help early on while at the same time attacking the media for overhyping the threat of coronavirus.
You're calling Trump a shitbag because YOU are a shitbag.
I've disagreed and showed open hostility toward the Obamas and the Clintons for years, but I've specified the policy and marxist/anti-American ideology I disagreed with. The closest I've come to the vulgar insults you unleash on Trump is nicknames that were specific to their poisonous barely-hidden Marxist ideology, such as Comerade Obama.
Whereas you wildly speculate that Trump did things wrong, way before there is any proof that Trump did anything wrong. What you and your fellow Bolshevik propagandists engage in is a slander campaign, aimed aat undermining and smearing the president, in the complete absence of any supporting facts.
Never during any crisis during Obama or Bill Clinton's presidencies did reporters snottily ask "Are you personally responsible?" Despite many occurences where Obama **WAS** personally responsible: Benghazi and the surrounding Obama lies and false narratives, Lois Lerner/IRS weaponized against conservatives, H1N1/Swine Flu, the "Fast and Furious" ATF selling guns to Mexican cartels who killed dozens including a U.S. Border agent, Obama policy that never exceeded 2% at most annual growth any of his 8 years. Obama endorsing Black Lives Matter and other radicals, who he even invited to the White House (which would be akin to Trump inviting the KKK leadership to the White House, that never happened, but the media attacks Trump as if he did, while ignoring the endorsement of violent racists by Obama and the Democrats!)
And that's just for openers.
The Bolshevik propagandists on your side constantly spin Trump statements as "lies" just to hurt him. The lack of availability of tests is a CDC failure, not a Trump failure. And it woudl exist if Obama or Hillary or Biden were president instead of Trump. The lack of alarm over the Covid-19 epidemic in China was aa failure of CDC officiaals like Fauci (NIH) and Redfield (CDC) who were far too trusing of China and the WHO. Fauci as recently as March 9th was still on television telling Americans not be concerned that the Cina outbreak would affect us, that Americans could still go on a cruise ship! Thaat didn't end well. Trump is the one who took over a CDC depleted under Obama of PPE and not replenished for the next pandemic. Trump is the one who initiated travel bans (AGAINST the advice of Fauci and Redfield) and Trump secured the border as no one else would, despite Democrat obstruction and slander at every turn. Trump engaged in hardball negotiations and a trade war with China in the year leading up to the Wuhan outbreak, that vastly diminishyed our dependence on China as a supplier. The Boshevik liars you side with and worship will NEVER NEVER NEVER acknowledge these achievements by Trump, that NO ONE on your side woudl have done, and likely no other Republicans would have done. Trump deserves enormous credit, and instead you slander him without evidence, or very slanted and distorted evidence at best.
Liberals who bemoan discrimination, intolerance, restraint of Constitutional freedoms, and promotion of hatred toward various abberant minorities, have absolutely no problem with discriminating against, being intolerant of, restricting Constitutional freedoms of, and directing hate-filled scapegoat rhetoric against conservatives.
EXACTLY what they accuse Republicans/conservatives of doing, is EXACTLY what liberals/Democrats do themselves, to those who oppose their beliefs.
And Trump tweeted “liberate MN” and I don’t see Gov Walz being that draconian in his shelter in place. That was just disgusting of Trump to do. I would also point out Michigan is one of the hardest hit states with coronavirus. That governor like the others are trying to reduce deaths with these temporary shelter in place measures. Not all of these quickly enacted measures make sense but those that refuse to practice social distancing measures while protesting are making things worse. Operation Gridlock actually ended up blocking access to hospital. Trump needs to stfu but instead he’s inciting this crap.
Again, that explains itself, despite your distortions. Democrat governors took the over-reaches I've detailed REPEATEDLY, that had nothing to do with public safety, arbitrarily closing businesses and limiting churches, gun stores and other businesses, while leaving open liquor stores, marijuana shops, and abortion clinics. As I detailed sourcing Tucker Carlson, people with "elective surgeries" such as hip and knee replacement were denied service, while abortions were permitted. That's not about pandemic containment, that's about Democrat partisan politics and authoritarian over-reach and selected targeting of conservatives. Not Democrat governors "enforcing Trump's orders", but instead Democrat governors who are twisting and distorting those guidelines to the point of turning the public against cooperating with the more pragmatic measures recommended by Trump.
I've detailed the excesses of the Michigan governor Gretchen Whitmer's quarantine policies. And I have family in Lansing, Michigan.
I would also point out that the governor in Mississippi explicitly spoke out against local overreaction like with the 500 [dollar] fines for churchgoers in a parking lot. Governor denounces crackdown on churches
Quote:
“Don’t trample the Constitution,” he said.
But the governor also had some advice for congregations across the Magnolia State — be prudent.
“I’ve asked all pastors not to hold these services, but we ordered churches safe from these outrageous actions,” he said. “Please use sense, everybody.”
Looks to me like blaming the Governor is misplaced here.
That's still a distortion. These were not 50 or 100 people meeting in a church where they could infect each other. It was 20 separate cars meeting in a parking lot and listening to their pastor's broadcast together on their car radios.
It's still a case of excessive crackdown on Christians, while other residents are free to potentially infect others in liquor stores or marijuana shops. I think the governor only distanced himself from the $500 fines because of the public backlash. But at least he did demounce the fines and crackdown on churches.
Again, I choose to stay at home and would not do what these people did, but I still understand and respect protestors' point of view that it is not a uniform enforcement of shelter-at-home and business closings. That seems to be Democrat governors targeting their conservative opposition for selective enforcement, that even a number of Michigan sheriffs said they think is unjust and they will not enforce. I would imagine the same is true of law enforcement in Mississippi.
I would also point out that the governor in Mississippi explicitly spoke out against local overreaction like with the 500 [dollar] fines for churchgoers in a parking lot. Governor denounces crackdown on churches
Quote:
“Don’t trample the Constitution,” he said.
But the governor also had some advice for congregations across the Magnolia State — be prudent.
“I’ve asked all pastors not to hold these services, but we ordered churches safe from these outrageous actions,” he said. “Please use sense, everybody.”
Looks to me like blaming the Governor is misplaced here.
That's still a distortion. These were not 50 or 100 people meeting in a church where they could infect each other. It was 20 separate cars meeting in a parking lot and listening to their pastor's broadcast together on their car radios.
It's still a case of excessive crackdown on Christians, while other residents are free to potentially infect others in liquor stores or marijuana shops. I think the governor only distanced himself from the $500 fines because of the public backlash. But at least he did demounce the fines and crackdown on churches.
Again, I choose to stay at home and would not do what these people did, but I still understand and respect protestors' point of view that it is not a uniform enforcement of shelter-at-home and business closings. That seems to be Democrat governors targeting their conservative opposition for selective enforcement, that even a number of Michigan sheriffs said they think is unjust and they will not enforce. I would imagine the same is true of law enforcement in Mississippi.
The actual distortion would be you blaming governors in this instance where a mayor actually was responsible. I think you want the one thing to be true and so it really doesn’t matter that the governor explicitly condemned that action. As for things not being uniform, these shelter in place orders had to be quickly done.
And Trump tweeted “liberate MN” and I don’t see Gov Walz being that draconian in his shelter in place. That was just disgusting of Trump to do. I would also point out Michigan is one of the hardest hit states with coronavirus. That governor like the others are trying to reduce deaths with these temporary shelter in place measures. Not all of these quickly enacted measures make sense but those that refuse to practice social distancing measures while protesting are making things worse. Operation Gridlock actually ended up blocking access to hospital. Trump needs to stfu but instead he’s inciting this crap.
Again, that explains itself, despite your distortions. Democrat governors took the over-reaches I've detailed REPEATEDLY, that had nothing to do with public safety, arbitrarily closing businesses and limiting churches, gun stores and other businesses, while leaving open liquor stores, marijuana shops, and abortion clinics. As I detailed sourcing Tucker Carlson, people with "elective surgeries" such as hip and knee replacement were denied service, while abortions were permitted. That's not about pandemic containment, that's about Democrat partisan politics and authoritarian over-reach and selected targeting of conservatives. Not Democrat governors "enforcing Trump's orders", but instead Democrat governors who are twisting and distorting those guidelines to the point of turning the public against cooperating with the more pragmatic measures recommended by Trump.
I've detailed the excesses of the Michigan governor Gretchen Whitmer's quarantine policies. And I have family in Lansing, Michigan.
We’re in a middle of a pandemic. Trump tweeting crap like that is inexcusable. He’s encouraging these protesters to break the social distancing he supposedly supports. I watched kids in that mob in MN. A lot of healthcare workers have died taking care of infected people. How many more die because of these protests? I know Trump takes no responsibility for anything but my governor actually does feel personally accountable. The deaths weigh on him as do the lives being upended from the economic shutdown.
The actual distortion would be you blaming governors in this instance where a mayor actually was responsible. I think you want the one thing to be true and so it really doesn’t matter that the governor explicitly condemned that action. As for things not being uniform, these shelter in place orders had to be quickly done.
Total horshit. The Mississippi governor only disowned it when it got bad press. That at best gets a factcheck "half-true".
And certainly in Michigan, Democrat governor Gretchen Whitmer's quarantine policies are completely hers, no one else's. Likewise the Democrat governors in multiple states that have vindictively cracked down on churches and gun shops, while leaving open marijuaana shops and liquor stores right across the street, as well as retail stores, where people could just as easily spread infection as in a church. And these same Democrat governors ban "elective surgeries" that are pretty damn vital, such as hip replacement and knee replacement (where those immobilized without the surgery could develop blood clots resulting in heart attack or stroke from forced inactivity, to say nothing of enduring unnecessary pain over the year or so those surgeries are delayed), but simultaneously Democrat governors arbitrarily label abortion surgery "essential".
Those are clear examples of Democrat authoritarian over-reach trampling on civil rights. Absolutely no mistake.
And not just in Michigan, but in multiple Democrat-controlled states, Colorado, New Jersey, Kentucky, Virginia, on and on. By Democrat authoritarian prick governors.
And Trump tweeted “liberate MN” and I don’t see Gov Walz being that draconian in his shelter in place. That was just disgusting of Trump to do. I would also point out Michigan is one of the hardest hit states with coronavirus. That governor like the others are trying to reduce deaths with these temporary shelter in place measures. Not all of these quickly enacted measures make sense but those that refuse to practice social distancing measures while protesting are making things worse. Operation Gridlock actually ended up blocking access to hospital. Trump needs to stfu but instead he’s inciting this crap.
Again, that explains itself, despite your distortions. Democrat governors took the over-reaches I've detailed REPEATEDLY, that had nothing to do with public safety, arbitrarily closing businesses and limiting churches, gun stores and other businesses, while leaving open liquor stores, marijuana shops, and abortion clinics. As I detailed sourcing Tucker Carlson, people with "elective surgeries" such as hip and knee replacement were denied service, while abortions were permitted. That's not about pandemic containment, that's about Democrat partisan politics and authoritarian over-reach and selected targeting of conservatives. Not Democrat governors "enforcing Trump's orders", but instead Democrat governors who are twisting and distorting those guidelines to the point of turning the public against cooperating with the more pragmatic measures recommended by Trump.
I've detailed the excesses of the Michigan governor Gretchen Whitmer's quarantine policies. And I have family in Lansing, Michigan.
We’re in a middle of a pandemic. Trump tweeting crap like that is inexcusable. He’s encouraging these protesters to break the social distancing he supposedly supports. I watched kids in that mob in MN. A lot of healthcare workers have died taking care of infected people. How many more die because of these protests? I know Trump takes no responsibility for anything but my governor actually does feel personally accountable. The deaths weigh on him as do the lives being upended from the economic shutdown.
Ahh, blame it on Trump.... again. Your kneejerk partisan tendency.
People would be far more willing to comply with shelter-at-home orders, if Demcorat governors were not aabusing their power and selectively targeting conservatives so blatantly, in the many examples I've already given. If there were consistency and logic that Democrat governors like Gretchen Whitmer and Walz were willing to explain to their citizen protestors, and that their own law enforcement are saying they will not enforce because of its clear over-reach and inconsistent logic, maybe citizens would be more willing to comply.
Perhaps if you weren't relying exclusively on liberal media to reinforce your beliefs, you'd see there were two random Covi-119 testings done in Santa Clara county (San Francisco bay area) , and in Los Angeles county, both showing that Covid-19 antibodies show between 50 to 80 times more people were infected with Covid-19 than previously believed, and that over 50% of those cases showed no symptoms. So that means the ratio of severe illness or death is far lower than initially believed.
Further, the whole idea of the quarantine and "flattening the curve" was to prevent our medical hospitals from being overwhelmed by more patients than could possibly be cared for, as ocurred in China, Italy, and Spain. Where there were so many patient that in cases where lives could have been saved, there was a lack of staff and ventilators, and hospital staff had to basically do "triage" like a battlefield, and choose who they would save, who was most likely to warrant the effort and resources expend on saving. But...
In the last 2 months under Donald Trump's leadership, he first set up travel bans to delay the spread in the U.S. And then he has stockpiled ventilatorss and other PPE (personal protection equipment), and set up emergency hospitals in every affected area that has put in place medial capability far beyond the high point of the pandemic patients, and still stands ready to care for those infected. Further, the lowered number of patients has allowed development of new drugs and better understanding of how to treat the virus, such as 1) blood serum antibodies taken from recovered Covid-19 patients, to inject into seriously ill patients that has allowed many to recover, 2) hydroxychloroquine and 3) remdesivir, among other therapies. So homefully in a month or two, even the most life-threatening cases can be cured. So, with all that in place, time bought with the preparation, why shut down all of the United States?
In my own Palm Beach County FL, with a population of 1.5 million, there are currently about 275 hospitalizations, and 92 deaths.
So long as testing is available to isolate persons who are infected, and contact-tracing to locate and quarantine any they infect, we should be like South Korea and re-open out society.
I think the Democrats propagandize for a complete lockdown to continue indefinitely has passed beyond pandemic defense to 1) undermine Trump by shutting down the ecconomy as a plot to prevent Trump politically and try to prevent his re-election, and 2) under a "never let a crisis go to waste" standard Democrat/Leftist strategy, put in place radical reforms (release of prissoners, shutting gun stores, persecuting Christians, arresting all political dissenters) as their kneejerk authoritarian plot to consolidate power. And especially to 3) to enact mail-in ballots that allow Democrats to rig elections, as they did with such ballots in Republican stronghold Orange County, CA, to unfairly win this and future elections. Democrats have no concern for the tens of millions who have been displaced, who suddenly have no income to buy food or pay bills. Even doing all this damage to 22 million now-unemployed Americans , Democrats are contemptibly holding up Republican legislation to help these people, delaying money these families need right now to feed their families, just so Democrats can try to extort unrelated funding for PBS and NPR, for santuary cities, for voter I.D. reqquirements and absentee ballots so Demcorats can rig elections.
It's obscene what your party is doing. It's all about power for Democrats, not about their hypocritical overtures of concern for the people their policies truly hurt. Again proving Democrats have unaapologetically become the Bolshevik party.
Also disgusting how Democrat leaders and liberal media perfectly mirror verbatim the talking points of Chinese state media, propagandizing blame on Trump to hide the Chinese negligence that caused this worldwide outbreak in over 180 nations. Rather than Democrats/liberal media expressing outrage and pointing blame at the true source of this pandemic.
It's more overt in this specific example, but consistently Dems and the media every day echo Chinese communist party talking points. As they clearly side with an enemy who has clear hostile intentions toward the United States. Bottom line: China knew this was a highly contagious virus, to the point that they suspended all interior flights within China to and from Wuhan province. But simultaneously allowed flights out of China to spread the virus to nations worldwide. THIS is who the piece of shit Democrat Bolsheviks are siding with, against Trump, and against the American people.
Joseph Biden for his sellouts already up to this point is often referred to as "quid pro Joe" or "Joe China", and is clearly the moldaable corrupt politician China would prefer to be dealing with after Nov 2020. As they are already with Sen Diane Feinstein, and Rep. Debbie Wasserman-bitch-cunt Schultz. Both of whom emplyed Chinese spies, and helped those exposed operatives escape from any penalty or prosecution. The Democrat party is corrupt, hates America, and is truly evil.
"I think President Xi is working very, very hard. I spoke to him. He's working very hard. I think he's doing a very good job. It's a big problem. But President Xi loves his country. He's working very hard to solve the problem, and he will solve the problem. OK?"
Trump actually spent a lot of time gushing about China’s coronavirus response while it was spreading here in our country. That was foolish of Trump.
The actual distortion would be you blaming governors in this instance where a mayor actually was responsible. I think you want the one thing to be true and so it really doesn’t matter that the governor explicitly condemned that action. As for things not being uniform, these shelter in place orders had to be quickly done.
Total horshit. The Mississippi governor only disowned it when it got bad press. That at best gets a factcheck "half-true".
...
Horseshit is you just making hateful accusations. I cited his reaction to what the mayor did that makes the governor’s feelings pretty clear. And what he says sounds pretty rational and common sensed. You haven’t actually cited anything to support your partisan accusations about the Mississippi governor.
The tendencies to continue exploiting the crisis to advance a Democrat suppression of conservatives, aided by the aligned liberal media, and by authoritarian message control and censorship at Facebook. The reluctance to let go of that authoritarian control by the Democrat/Left, even when the crisis is easing.
From 13:00 to 17:00 in the video, Carlson cites some interesting facts: that political leaders push people to stay in their homes and not go outside, but a JOURNAL OF AMERICAN MEDICINE study reports that most people were infected (80%) by being enclosed in their homes and sharing spece with family. Second highest place of infection was sharing space on public transportation. So the question is: why are leaders telling us to stay in our homes, and arresting people for being in parks, on beaches surfing alone (Malibu, CA), and otherwise being outside?
And that multiple random testings of populations in Santa Clara, CA, and Los Angeles, CA, and in the New York area, show that while Covid-19 infections are as much as 50 to 80 times higher than initially thought in the population, over 50% of those cases have no symptoms, the Covid-19 mortality rate relative to that could be as low as 0.02%.
From what I can see, deaths peaked around April 12, and are gradually declining now. The part about oil trading at below zero dollars a barrel, literally giving oil away to move it, is alarming. As are the evaporated jobs for over 22 million Americans, while Democrats in Congress not only want them to stay [unemployed indefinitely, but continue to just let them twist in the wind, to extort favors from House/Senate Republicans regarding their unrelated Leftist agenda, at the expense of millions of families who literally can't buy groceries. As Nancy Pelosi boasts to a fawning CNN reporter about her vast freezerful of expensive frozen designer chocolates. "Let them eat cake!"
The tendencies to continue exploiting the crisis to advance a Democrat suppression of conservatives, aided by the aligned liberal media and authoritarian message control and censorship at Facebook. The reluctance to let go of that authoritarian control by the Democrat/Left, even when the crisis is easing.
From 13:00 to 17:00 in the video, Carlson cites some interesting facts: that political leaders push people to stay in their homes and not go outside, but a JOURNAL OF AMERICAN MEDICINE study reports that most people were infected (80%) by being enclosed in their homes and sharing spece with family. Second highest place of infection was sharing space on public transportation. So the question is: why are leaders telling us to stay in our homes, and arresting people for being in parks, on beaches surfing alone (Malibu, CA), and otherwise being outside?
And that multiple random testings of populations in Santa Clara, CA, and Los Angeles, CA, and in the New York area, show that while Covid-19 infections are as much as 50 to 80 times higher than initially thought in the population, over 50% of those cases have no symptoms, the Covid-19 mortality rate relative to that could be as low as 0.02%.
From what I can see, deaths peaked around April 12, and are gradually declining now. The part about oil trading at below zero dollars a barrel, literally giving oil away to move it, is alarming. As are the evaporated jobs for over 22 million Americans, while Democrats in Congress not only want them to stay employed indefinitely, but continue to just let them twist in the wind, to extort favors from House/Senate Republicans regarding their unrelated Leftist agenda, at the expense of millions of families who literally can't buy groceries. As Nancy Pelosi boasts to a fawning CNN reporter about her vast freezerful of expensive frozen designer chocolates. "Let them eat cake!"
I think it’s pretty nutty and really partisan wishful thinking that democrats want high unemployment. Basically what you’re attributing to democrat politicians actually originates from the WH’s own experts that Trump has used. They are not saying it’s safe to reopen things up. Likewise I suspect you are still sheltering in place because you don’t feel it’s safe. “Let them eat cake” indeed, can’t imagine that cake you’re having tasting anything but bitter. Let me know when you’re done sheltering in place WB. Till than I know you don’t even believe what your saying.
The criticism of Trump for getting ahead of studies on this appear to be a valid one. I think it’s good to talk about promising new drug treatments but over selling something is another thing.
I think it’s pretty nutty and really partisan wishful thinking that democrats want high unemployment.
Pelosi and the Dems have made clear for four years now that they'll do anything, any lying propaganda, any slander, to undermine Trump, and many have made clear they welcome a downturn in the economy they can blame on Trump (rather than China, who is truly responsible).
Pelosi has literally delayed legislation for 3 weeks that would bail out tens of millions of owners and employees, who again, can't even afford food right now. Every day she delays assures that more of them will go out of business, she's toying with millions of lives to extort irrelevant partisan concessions for illegal immigrants, sanctuary cities, green new deal funding, and funding for NPR and PBS. None of which have a thing to do with helping these millions of people.
Originally Posted By: M E M
Basically what you’re attributing to democrat politicians actually originates from the WH’s own experts that Trump has used.
That doesn't even make a coherent point.
Originally Posted By: M E M
They are not saying it’s safe to reopen things up. Likewise I suspect you are still sheltering in place because you don’t feel it’s safe. “Let them eat cake” indeed, can’t imagine that cake you’re having tasting anything but bitter. Let me know when you’re done sheltering in place WB. Till than I know you don’t even believe what your saying.
Pelosi is eating bitter cake, not me. And demonstrating she is an elitist completely out of touch from the people she pretends to care about and represent.
If the experts don't agree, why are Fauci and Birx and Redfield on stage every day at press conferences saying they will closely monitor county by county, and will close regions only if there is a surge in new cases. The reason for the shutdown was to prepare and stockpile medical staff and ventilator machines. That is now ready in abundant excess. So ready that many hospitals are sending home staff because they are so over-prepared for a huge wave that didn't come. Thank God. But if there is a surge or a new wave later, hospitals are now ready for it. The original goal has been reached. But Democrats are using lockdown as aa political weapon to target their political opposition, and their supporters, with selective enforcement that makes no logical sense.
I live in an area with a high ratio of cases, that's why I'm sheltering. I'm not in Wyoming, or Montana or South Dakota. I'm sheltering at home to obey the shelter-at-home order. Two weeks ago in my zipcode, there were 57 cases. Currently in my zipcode there are 0 cases. In 5 of the 8 zipcodes for my city there are 0 cases. Zero reported cases, to be clear. In the other 3 there are about 25 cases. I've thought of going to the store, and will have to for groceries at some point, but am doing my best to comply. And when I shop, I'll wear a protective mask.
But as I said, 3 new studies show that the ratio of unsymptomatic cases nationwide and worldwide, is far greater than thought even 2 weeks ago, as low as 0.02% mortality rate, or 1 in 5,000. So that reduces the fear factor. I'm also not over 65, or to my knowledge immune-compromised in any way. Specifically for Palm Beach County, out of a population of 1.5 million people, to date there are 2,320 reported cases, of those 380 have been hospitalized, and 131 deaths. Out of 1.5 million people. I was anxious 2 weeks ago about how high the cases would go, but the crisis largely seems to have passed at this point.
Further, as I said before, about one third of counties in tha U.S. don't have any reported cases at this time. So why should these people be in lockdown? This is a disease that spreads in densely populated urban areas, and especially at crowd events such as Mardi Gras in New Orleans, crowded spring break bars and beaches in Florida, Soccer games in Italy, Chinese festivals in New York City and San Francisco, and moon festivals with 5 million people in Wuhan, China. With awareness and preparation, washing hands frequently, smaller groups of people, social distancing and protective masks, it's at least worth trying to see if that's enough to prevent spread, especially in regions of the country that are not even affected.
The criticism of Trump for getting ahead of studies on this appear to be a valid one. I think it’s good to talk about promising new drug treatments but over selling something is another thing.
By Valerie Richardson - The Washington Times - Thursday, April 2, 2020
An international poll of more than 6,000 doctors released Thursday found that the antimalarial drug hydroxychloroquine was the most highly rated treatment for the novel coronavirus.
The survey conducted by Sermo, a global health care polling company, of 6,227 physicians in 30 countries found that 37% of those treating COVID-19 patients rated hydroxychloroquine as the “most effective therapy” from a list of 15 options.
Of the physicians surveyed, 3,308 said they had either ordered a COVID-19 test or been involved in caring for a coronavirus patient, and 2,171 of those responded to the question asking which medications were most effective.
The U.S. Food and Drug Administration gave chloroquine and its next-generation derivative, hydroxychloroquine, emergency-use authorization Monday for treating the novel coronavirus, although the drug was already being used off-label by some doctors and hospitals for COVID-19 patients.
The survey also found that the most commonly prescribed treatments are analgesics (56%), azithromycin (41%) and hydroxychloroquine (33%).
Azithromycin, known by the brand name Zithromax or Z-Pak, was rated the second-most effective therapy at 32%, followed by “nothing,” analgesics (including acetaminophen), anti-HIV drugs and cough medicine.
Hydroxychloroquine, which is sold under the brand name Plaquenil, was prescribed mainly in the United States for the most severe cases, but not so in other countries.
“Outside the U.S., hydroxychloroquine was equally used for diagnosed patients with mild to severe symptoms whereas in the U.S. it was most commonly used for high risk diagnosed patients,” the survey found.
The 30 nations surveyed included those in Europe, Asia, North America and South America, as well as Australia. No incentives were provided to participate in the poll, conducted March 25-27, according to Sermo.
ANNOUNCEMENT: To create a centralized & dynamic knowledge base we published results of our COVID-19 study, which over 6.2K physicians in 30 countries participated in: https://t.co/ppewwdo8wl pic.twitter.com/Fg5B6FMUCQ
Hydroxychloroquine usage was most widespread in Spain, where 72% of physicians surveyed said they had prescribed it, followed by Italy at 49%, and least popular in Japan, where 7% had used it to treat COVID-19.
The poll found 23% of U.S. medical professionals had prescribed the drug, which has been FDA-approved for malaria, lupus and rheumatoid arthritis.
Debate about hydroxychloroquine has raged in the United States since President Trump touted it two weeks ago as a potential “game-changer” in the fight against the deadly pandemic, prompting critics to accuse him of peddling unproven remedies, or “snake oil,” as USA Today put it.
Trump-touted malaria drug takes center stage in coronavirus treatment fracas - https://t.co/LnIKLHZYXI - @washtimes #hydroxychloroquine #chloroquine #COVID19 — Valerie Richardson (@ValRichardson17) April 2, 2020 Sermo CEO Peter Kirk called the polling results a “treasure trove of global insights for policy makers.”
“Physicians should have more of a voice in how we deal with this pandemic and be able to quickly share information with one another and the world,” he said. “With censorship of the media and the medical community in some countries, along with biased and poorly designed studies, solutions to the pandemic are being delayed.”
The survey also found that 63% of U.S. physicians believe restrictions should be lifted in six weeks or more, and that the epidemic’s peak is at least 3-4 weeks away.
The survey also found that 83% of global physicians anticipate a second global outbreak, including 90% of U.S. doctors but only 50% of physicians in China.
On average, U.S. coronavirus testing takes 4-5 days, while 10% of cases take longer than seven days. In China, 73% of doctors reported getting results back in 24 hours.
In cases of ventilator shortages, all countries but China said the top criteria should be patients with the best chance of recovery (47%), followed by patients with the highest risk of death (21%), and then first responders (15%).
In China, the survey said doctors prioritized patients at greatest risk of death.
I'm open to whoever provides the facts. But outside the U.S., a majority of doctors up to now have used Hydroxychloroquine as their Covid-19 treatment of choice, and doctors in Europe are scratching their heads wondering why U.S. doctors are so resistant to it.
One epidemiologist, Dr Lipkin if I recall correctly, said he used Hydroxychloroquine on 125 patients, and all but 2 recovered, and within an incredible 5 or 6 days each, as opposed to the usual 3 or 4 weeks most Covid-19 patients take to leave hospital care.
THe above study you linked is the only one I've seen critical of Hydroxychloroquine. But it seemss to work for many patients, and I've posted several stories where individuals were at death's door, and within hours of being put on the Hydroxychloroquine have made an immediate recovery. Including a Michigan state Democrat congresswoman, who says without Trump's mentioning Hydroxychloroquine at a daily press conference, she never would have known of it to request it, and she would not be alive now.
It seems to be a case of Trump just suggested it as "a promising drug", and therefore those hostile to Trump, even within the medical community in the U.S., are kneejerk against it.
There are other therapies, the other two most promising being 1)Remdesevir, and 2) creating blood serum from recovered Covid-19 patients, to inject into infected patients, to teach their blood how to make antibodies. The last seems to be the most side-effect free, and the most universally recognized as successful.
That's a pretty balanced look at both sides. But the hyped "shortage" cause by Hydroxychloroquine being used for treating Covid-19 for Lupus patients has not come to pass. First off, the most prominent Lupus doctor in the U.S. said that in 42 years of prescribing it to patients, he has never seen negative side effects in all tht time. No hospitalizations, no blindness, no heart arithmia. The worst he's seen in 42 years was a skin rash.
And that he has Lupus patients who he has prescribed Hydroxychloroquine for years. So it there were visible negative side effects it would be far more likely in that long-term usage, rather than Covid-19 patients, who are prescribed it for only 5 days.
Further, the alleged shortage caused by prescribing it to treat Covid-19 has not happened. The federal government currently has a reserve of 30 million prescribed doses, and has distributed 1 million of them to hospitals. No shortage.
Some doctors have been vocal in advocating the drug. Dr Vladimir Zelenko, a general practitioner in upstate New York, has claimed that a three-drug cocktail of hydroxychloroquine, azithromycin and zinc sulfate has helped mitigate the infection in nearly 200 hundred of his patients before they became sick enough to require hospitalization.
and
Quote:
Early, but mixed, data has emerged from COVID-19 trials of the malaria drugs in China. A research team in Marseilles, France, has published data showing that out of 80 mild COVID-19 patients treated with hydroxychloroquine and azithromycin, 93 percent had no detectable levels of the virus after eight days.
The criticism of Trump for getting ahead of studies on this appear to be a valid one. I think it’s good to talk about promising new drug treatments but over selling something is another thing.
Laura Ingraham was all over this in the first 22 minutes of her show, with several doctors and researchers well versed in prescribing hydroxychloroquine. They rip apart the above study as specious and not peer-reviewed, and prescribing a dosage so low as to guarantee it would not be effective.
But because is a study of hydroxychloroquine that bashes a drug that Trump discussed as "a promising new drug" the liberal media jumped on it and hyped this negative review of the drug without any responsible scrutiny of the study. It fit their partisan agenda.
"I believe this transfer was in response to my insistence that the government invest the billions of dollars allocated by Congress to address the Covid-19 pandemic into safe and scientifically vetted solutions, and not in drugs, vaccines and other technologies that lack scientific merit," Bright said in a lengthy statement issued Wednesday. "I am speaking out because to combat this deadly virus, science -- not politics or cronyism -- has to lead the way." He cited "clashes with political leadership" as a reason for his sidelining, as well as his resistance to "efforts to fund potentially dangerous drugs promoted by those with political connections."
Trump is a shit bag. Lying is not a virtue. Governors in general have seen their popularity grow in this crisis because they had to bust ass and their people see it. Trump taking no responsibility and his continual lies isn’t leadership.
Cuomo, a high-profile Democrat, said it was "vicious" and "ugly" for the Republican leader's office to officially put out a press release saying, "Stopping Blue State Bailouts."
"What he's saying is when you look at the states that have coronavirus problems, they tend to be Democratic states," Cuomo said. "How ugly a thought -- I mean just think of what he's saying. People died. 15,000 people died in New York, but they were not predominantly Democrats, so why should we help them?"
"How irresponsible and how reckless," Cuomo added.
He pointed out that New York State contributes $116 billion more in revenues to the federal government than it gets from Washington, whereas Kentucky, McConnell's home state, takes much more from the federal government than it contributes.
"Senator McConnell, who's getting bailed out here?" Cuomo said. "It's your state that's living on the money that we generate. Your state is getting bailed out. Not my state." ...
I would love McConnel to lose his election this year. His state takes federal money while NY pays and he has the nerve to say this crap.
"I believe this transfer was in response to my insistence that the government invest the billions of dollars allocated by Congress to address the Covid-19 pandemic into safe and scientifically vetted solutions, and not in drugs, vaccines and other technologies that lack scientific merit," Bright said in a lengthy statement issued Wednesday. "I am speaking out because to combat this deadly virus, science -- not politics or cronyism -- has to lead the way." He cited "clashes with political leadership" as a reason for his sidelining, as well as his resistance to "efforts to fund potentially dangerous drugs promoted by those with political connections."
Laura probably didn’t cover this
CDC official Rick Bright, by the wildest of coincidences, has the same lawyer as Christine Blasey-Ford. Gee, I wonder what the chances are this guy is part of the Democrat slander/attack machine.
Cuomo, a high-profile Democrat, said it was "vicious" and "ugly" for the Republican leader's office to officially put out a press release saying, "Stopping Blue State Bailouts."
"What he's saying is when you look at the states that have coronavirus problems, they tend to be Democratic states," Cuomo said. "How ugly a thought -- I mean just think of what he's saying. People died. 15,000 people died in New York, but they were not predominantly Democrats, so why should we help them?"
"How irresponsible and how reckless," Cuomo added.
He pointed out that New York State contributes $116 billion more in revenues to the federal government than it gets from Washington, whereas Kentucky, McConnell's home state, takes much more from the federal government than it contributes.
"Senator McConnell, who's getting bailed out here?" Cuomo said. "It's your state that's living on the money that we generate. Your state is getting bailed out. Not my state." ...
I would love McConnel to lose his election this year. His state takes federal money while NY pays and he has the nerve to say this crap.
That is clearly a Democrat/Left lying narrative that tries to mask the video and political attack ads of Nancy Pelosi, blind to the tens of millions of families without jobs or food, because she personally stalled legislation to extort partisan add-ons to legislatioon for completely unrelated funding for sanctuary cities, for illegal immigrants, for green new deal spending, for PBS and NPR, and for museums. And then she then showed off her 24,000-dollar freezer full of expensive designer ice cream and cholcolate. So glad she doesn't have to stress and has plenty to eat, while she literally starved over 22 million families because she has stalled legislation for weeks. Republicans have compared her to Marie Antoinette saying "Let them eat cake", and the show perfectly fits. As your side strains with damage control propaganda to create fake outrage misdirected at Sen. Mitch McConnell.
There's nothing to distort or exaggerate. Pelosi's callous indifference to those suffering as a dircet result of her actions. All she had to do was sign a legislation bill, 3 weeks ago.
Trump is a shit bag. Lying is not a virtue. Governors in general have seen their popularity grow in this crisis because they had to bust ass and their people see it. Trump taking no responsibility and his continual lies isn’t leadership.
Yes, because Trump is a doctor and career CDC official, who personally created and messed up the testing kits.
For the billionth time, the test kit was created by others, and Dr Fauci has repeatedly said there was an error within the CDC in selecting an overly complicated test kit that turned out not to work, that it was an error within the CDC, not Trump's error. If Obama, Hillary, Biden or whoever were president, the same error would have occurred. How you mindlessly and irrationally blame Trump for that I can't imagine.
