RKMBs Forums .::Important::. Politics and Current Events Coronavirus outbreak in China, and global pandemic

ARIZONA GOV. DOUG DUCEY'S TRUMP DILEMMA


I begin to see why Ducey would oppose the drug for political reasons. He's a Republican in the mold of Jeff Flake and Mitt Romney. A self-serving politically motivated RINO who is more motivated by which way the political wind is blowing, than in doing the right thing.

The AAPS also according to the article you linked to believes...

Honestly I wouldn’t want anyone that belonged to that organization treating me. You continue to try to play this as a political thing but ignore what Trump’s own experts say about the drug. Even under pressure to please Trump Doctor Fauci isn’t on board. Or maybe Fauci was hypnotized by Obama?

Trump rips W after call for unity

So W did a basic ex-president type of thing in a moment of a national disaster. A call for unity shouldn’t warrant an attack. Trump’s response is just another example of why he’s unfit for the office he holds and why I have no problem calling him some explicit names. People have become instantly unemployed while a pandemic sweeps through killing more than those lost in the Vietnam War and Trump has made everything about him. I’m not a fan W but what he said was something Trump is just incapable of.

What Dr Fauci says is that he's reluctant to fully recommend hydroxychloroquine or any other medicine before a thorough peer-reviewed study has been done. That's neither a condemnation or an endorsement on Fauci's part. Despite that hundreds of other doctors across 40 nations, and thousands of recovered patients, are testament to its effectiveness.
What this article shows is that a large organization of physicians and surgeons has submitted a peer reviewed study to the governor of Arizona.

The advantage of hydroxychloroquine is that it can treat patients early on, while they are still at home, to not end up crowding hospitals, to allow them to avoid becoming severely ill, to recover at home, without putting others at risk.
But in typical Democrat ass-backward obstruction policy, Gov. Cuomo of New York, and Gov. Whitmer of Michigan, only allow hyrdroxychloroquine to be prescribed in a hospital, preventing its being prescribed until the patient is already severely ill, and also forcing more patients to clog hospitals when with less obstructive laws, they could gain effective treatment much earlier. Likewise the Arizona governor.

More from the article you sourced...


I think WB you leave a lot of important things out. I can agree with you that politics shouldn’t play a part in a drug getting used but that cuts both ways. It obviously shouldn’t be used just because Trump might look bad pushing a drug that causes more harm than good.

If you look at what the AAPS doctors said to the Arizona governor, it was about getting medical care to patients to prevent them from getting very sick an dying, and not obstructing treatment on a technicality.

For doctors in dozens of nations worldwide, it's about saving patients with hydroxychloroquine. Only in the United States is there an obstruction to that, witholding a medication that has been FDA approved since 1955 !

Again check the article you posted. Something being FDA approved doesn’t mean there is nothing to lose. At least one clinical trial was suspended after 11 patients died taking the drug. And the article covers many more issues. And the AAPS seems to have some ideas I consider pretty whacked out. Obama may be charismatic but I don’t think he has the power to hypnotize people. And Medicare being evil? For so many it’s a lifesaver.

In the cases I've seen, these were patients who were already at the edge of death and were too far gone to possibly be saved by hydroxychloroquine. And purposefully administered so late in their deterioration as Covid-19 patients, to purposefully undermine the case for hydroxychloroquine, to select cases to inject the drug past the point they could be saved, by any treatment. There is a weird conspiracy against hydroxychloroquine in the U.S., despite the consensus of the medical community, outside the United States.

It could be a corporate profit motive, pushing away from hydroxychloroquine to therapies more profitable to hospitals and pharmaceutical corporations (due to hyrdrocychloroquine being 75 years old and not patent-owned by pharamceutical corporations) or a political motivation to resist any medication favored by Trump. Or a corrupt nexus of the two.

Again, cure by remdesivir: average 11 days.
Cure by hydroxychloroquine: average 5 to 6 days.
Which makes more sense to use, when 2,000 patients a day are dying, and hydroxychloroquine has an over 91% ratio of success in over 30 nations worldwide?

Apparently people were asked to remove their masks for a meeting with Pence. He of course is now sensitive to doing photo ops where he refuses to wear one. I normally don’t care about someone else’s vanity but it does illustrate their true character to the lengths that they go.

I don't know what the fuck that means, but I'm sure you're implying something negative.

I think Pence has proven himself to be a person of exceptional character, and really, a boy scout among leaders in national politics. We're talking about a guy who won't spend time alone with any woman, out of loyalty and fidelity to his wife. For which he was, of course, widely mocked by the contemptuous Democrat/Left and media, who have no values and no loyalty to anyone.

Whatever the evil minons of the Left detest in Trump, I think their worst nightmare would be Pence beccoming president. Because Trump, like Reagan, is a negotiator (i.e., "I'll give them 25% of what they want, so they'll give me 75% of what I want.") Whereas Pence is a steadfast Christian conservative, and he would push much harder on issues like birth control, abortion, gay nazism, and other extreme pushes of the radical left.

You guys have no idea how lucky you are to be dealing with Trump, someone who is flexible and willing to negotiate. It's ironic that your side treats Trump like a rigid idealogue and demonize him, because if your side would just set aside the hate and demagoguery toward Trump, your side could probably get a lot of what they want. More so than they could with Pence and a lot of other Republican conservatives.

CEOs asked to remove masks before meeting Pence



I see it as Pence being of poor character if he forced people meeting with him to not wear a mask for his photo ops.

I see that as you being a relentless partisan who absolutely refuses to see the admirable qualities in our vice president, no matter what.

As compared to the loathesome opportunists of the Democrat-Bolshevik party you never hold accountable, who lie relentlessly and sow chaos and destruction for their own political benefit, and even weaponize government in Bolshevik and Maoist style against their Republican opponents, such as Barack Obama, Hillary and Bill Clinton, Bernie Sanders, Chuck Schumer, Nancy Pelosi, Ilhan Omar, Ocasio-Cortez, Harry Reid, Joseph Biden and sons, on down.
These are vicious Democrat opportunists who constantly enrich themselves with insider trading and sell out with lobbyist insider deals (Biden and family a prime example, and the Clintons, and Reid, and Pelosi), and put the American people at risk in the process. These are people who break every law, and then bemoan the alleged immorality of their Republican opponents for saving the country from their bad decisions.

When I'm in a grocery store or even outside in an area where I might have other people come closer to me than I think is safe, I wear a mask.
When I'm outside in the afternoon taking a walk and no one for an hour or more is within 50 or 100 feet of me, I don't.
In the case of Vice President Pence, or President Trump himself, everyone around them is tested, and they themselves are tested at least daily. Anyone who approches them has their temperature taken and is questioned. In those extremely controlled circumstances, I don't have a problem with Pence not wearing a mask, or even those around them.

Personally I wouldn’t ask somebody not to wear a mask because I didn’t want to wear one and also didn’t want to be the only one in a photo op not wearing one. Do you have an argument that Pence is being a good person here?

I already said: Pence is a religious conservative, and he has such integrity that he won't spend time alone with a woman other than his wife. That demonstrates remarkable respect and fidelity to his wife. Which the less moral haters in the liberal media actually mocked him for.

Man, unbeleivable:


Laura Ingraham, May 14 2020, Thursday



The last 2 nights, Ingraham's program has been exceptional. In this one, Ingraham interviews a Texas physician, Dr. Ivette Lozano, who discovered when prescribing hydroxychloroquine to 5 patients that the pharmacy would not fill her prescriptions!
And further threatened to report her and jeopardize her professional status her if she continued to prescribe it!

Concocted by some Obama/Hillary zealots in the Texas pharmacy board, no doubt. The Texas governor needs to put this down fast.
Oddly, they wanted to violate patient privacy and apparently would allow her to prescribe hydroxychloroquine, but only for a condition other than Covid-19. Which is, of course, both insane, and an authoritarian and highly political abuse of power.

In states nationwide, zealots are suppressing the prescription of hydroxychloroquine to patients who without it will die, and are intimidating with potential loss of their medical licenses the doctors and pharmacists who prescribe it. Despite that hydroxychloroquine is proven to be safe and effective against Covid-19, by many doctors in the U.S., and in dozens of nations worldwide.

That hardly gives Pence a pass on risking exposing other people to Coronavirus because he doesn’t want to look like the douche he is for not wanting to wear a mask. To me that really speaks of his character. It’s pretty evil imho to do what he did and it also matters because a lot of people don’t want to wear a mask when a highly contagious virus is making the rounds.

Meanwhile in New York State, Governor Andrew Cuomo, whom some think is the savior of the Democrat party, orders everyone to wear masks while not doing so except for photo ops.

Once again outrage is selective and based on what letter follows a politicians name.

Cuomo isn’t anywhere near anyone G-man when he’s doing that. Pence is asking people not to wear masks that are in close contact with him. That’s a big difference.

The rage directed at Pence over a piddly face mask rings rather hollow.

How about a bit of rage toward Gov. Andrew Cuomo, who literally killed thousands of elderly in his state, by executive-ordering that elderly with Covid-19 be shipped out of hospitals and back into nursing homes, to start wildfires of death in those nursing homes.

Or for the health department director in Pennsylvania, who publicly assured the public that nursing homes in Pennsylvania were safe, while she quietly got her over-90 mother out, just before her own policy resulted in a wildfire of death in those care facilities, that she protected only her pown mother from, in apparent anticipation of the outbreak she assured state residents wouldn't happen.

But no, M E M rages about absence of one piddly mask that didn't affect anyone. How do we know? Because the liberal media would have had a feeding frenzy if one person in Pence's orbit got even a mild case of Covid-19.

Don’t confuse disgust with rage on Pence’s lack of character and let me assure you of my true rage for Trump’s lies and downplaying of the pandemic that continues to this day. While it was spreading here he gushed about China and attacked the media for overhyping the threat. I personally want to see that shitbag “I take no responsibility “ Trump get everything he deserves for his fucked up response that has made us number one in deaths in the world of Coronavirus. A lot of blood is on his hands and also on the hands of those that enable such an unfit person for the office.

As for Cuomo I get the sense that there were no good choices at the time. The hospitals were being overwhelmed so they couldn’t keep them there. If he was negligent he should be held accountable but while NY had the highest nursing home deaths, other states actually had a higher percentage of their deaths come from nursing homes than NY. Politically I get why you want to blame Cuomo though.

You should save your rage for the lying Bolshevik fanatics on your side. They demonstrate their lawlessness and contempt for the rule of law every day. And the lawlessness of the Obama administration continues to be exposed. It terrifies me what the Bolshevik fanatics on your side would do to this country if they ever regain all 3 branches.
It was President Trump who supplied Governor Cuomo with thousands of ventilator machines he didn't prepare himself, far more than Cuomo over-estimated he needed so thaat New Yor was never under-supplied. It was President Trump who set up hospitals and emergency field hospitals that were mostly never used, where a more compentent New York governor would have sent the elderly so they wouldn't haave been sent back to cause mass death in the thousands in New York nursing homes. EVEN GIVEN THE RESOURCES by Trump, Gov. Cuomo still squandered and mismanaged them. Reckless. Blood on his hands. And when questioned about it, Cuomo unapologetically said "old people are going to die of this, that's life". Imaagine the media coverage this would have gotten if Trump said something this callous. But because a Democrat "golden governor" said it, it's invissible to the 80% liberal media.
Even when Trump provided the only things that went right in New York, you jerks can't give Trump credit for saving Cuomo and New York's bacon. How many thousands more would have died in New York if not for Trump?

You guys demonize Gov. Ron Desantis of FL, who kept the body count low in his state, and struck the right balance between targeted protection of the elderly and of those most at risk, with keeping the economy open as much as possible.
As contrasted with Gov. Andrew Cuomo of NY, who negligently didn't prepare despite a 2015 report by his own health department sounding the alarm, that he ignored and actually after became even lessprepared. And then issues an incompetent executive order to send the Covid-19 infected back into nursing homes to turn them to Covid-death breeding grounds by the thousands with no precautions, for which the liberal media gives him a complete free pass. And even praise him as "presidential"! As "the golden governor"!
And the media heaped similar praise on the incompetent Demogovernors who mismanaged similar surges of nursing home deaths in Pennsyvania, New Jersey, Connecticut, Rhode Island, Massachussetts and Michigan.

Even as they demonized the Republican governors of Texas, Florida and Georgia as "reckless" and "wanting people to die", and "having blood on their hands".
WHICH STATES DID ALL THESE PEOPLE UNNECESSARILY DIE IN ?!!?

Score another celebration of incompetence for the Democrats, and for their propaganda arm in the 80% liberal Newspeak media.

I think a key difference between us WB is I don’t see your side wanting people to die where you are at least willing to accuse that in general onto democrats. I think your governor has been lucky so far imho. You had packed beaches when he knew there was a highly contagious virus.

How is everyone doing these days? I’m still doing the shorter day but I do see things getting busier. More coworkers are showing up for at least partial days I think more or less because they want to get of the house. I throw on a mask if in anyone’s around. Things are slowly coming back but our ICU’s are filling up so I’m wary like most people I know. Very grateful that so far everyone I know hasn’t gotten sick or lost their jobs so far.

My office is still working remotely but we’re going to start bringing people back in a few weeks. A lot depends on how much the courts do or do not open up for in person appearances.

Honestly, parts of the remote work are better. A lot of what I do is transactional at this point and can be done electronically. And court conferences if they are attorneys and judge only are actually more efficient via Skype. It’s easier to get everybody together at a particular time.

You could allege that of any region with low cases. But the fact is, Florida governor Ron Desantis did targeted protection of the elderly and nursing homes, and targeted shut-downs of areas with the most Covid-19 cases. Which unfortunately included Palm Beach County where I live.
Contrast that with the lack of concern for the elderly in Democrat-governed NY, NJ, PA, MI, CT, MA, RI and CA. Interesting how 70% of those who have died of Covid-19 have been in Blue states. Perhaps you should give some credit to Republican governors.

Despite the low infection rates and casualties, Desantis gets very negative coverage from the local propaganda newspapers the Fort Lauderdale Sun-Sentinel, Palm Beach Post, and Miami Herald. As if he did nothing right! I don't know of any other state that had a similar targeted approach of shutting dowwn only the most impacted areas. And again, virtually all the cases in Florida originated from an exodus of infected people spreading it from the New York area.

Regarding the allegation that I see the Democrat side "wanting people to die ", that's a lie, I never said that.
However, I do see your side wanting to exploit the crisis to damage the economy in an effort to prevent Trump from getting re-elected in Nov 2020.
Why do I see it that way? Because your side has plainly stated that as a desire of theirs, to hurt Trump economically, even before the Covid-19 crisis began. PERIOD. From Bill Maher and Paul Krugman and Michael Moore and Robby Mook on down. That's just an absolute fact.

Why am I further suspicious of your party's malicious wishes to wreck the economy? Because I've seen the increasingly vicious Bolshevik abuse of power.

It began with George Soros taking control of the Democrat party in 2004 (read the book The Shadow Party (2006) by David Horowwitz and Richard Poe). The Democrat Party/news media collaboration to destroy the Republicans at that time, a prime example being the Dan Rather fraudulent story about a faked letter from George W. Bush's commanding oficer in the Texas National Guard, that cost Dan Rather his job when conservative bloggers (NOT ANYONE IN THE MAINSTREAM LIBERAL MEDIA) exposed the truth, that the letter was faked. And Rather was fired.

In 2006, the Democrat Party and liberal media unleashed an October surprise on the Republicans with the Rep. Mark Foley story, that much later was revealed the reporters sat on for at least a year, to unleash on Republicans right before the election, allowing no GOP recovery time. That's how Dems won the House and Senate. The "culture of corruption"was a narrative Dems aimed at Republicans, but it is Democrats who were that year and every year the TRUE culture of corruption.

In 2008 the Democrats and news media again worked in unison against the Republicans to elect Obama, blaming the economic collapse on Republicans, despite that, though both had a hand in the collapse, as liberal journalist Naomi Wolfe said on C-SPAN, "both had a hand in it, but if one were intellectually honest, the Democrats had primary blame for the collapse". But they sold a narrative that crippled Republicans in the 2008 election.

In between, Democrats, including Barack Obama, did everything they could to badmouth the U.S. military and undermine the possibility of victory in Iraq. Even Pelosi trying to de-fund our troops on the battlefield in Iraq.
Conversely, W. Bush and McCain were commited to Iraq victory regardless of the cost to their own popularity, and they pushed a troop surge in Iraq that turned the tide, right around the time Obama was inaugurated.
Then incredibly, Obama, who vociferously tried to obstruct every move to bring about that surge and victory, boasted of it as his victory in Iraq when he became president! A victory IN SPITE of his presidency, not because of it!

Then the weaponization of the IRS through Koskinin and Lois Lerner in the 2010-2012 period.

Also Fast and Furious, where ATF under Obama deliberately sold guns to Mexican drug cartels, that resulted in the murder of a U.AS. Border Patrol agent, and dozens of Mexican citizens. The Obama administration had intended "Fast and Furious" as a ruse to blame American gun retailers as a rationalization to shut down 2nd Amendment rights, but it blew up in Obama's face.

Journo-List, another collaboration between the liberal media and the Democrat party.

The personal attacks on Sarah Palin and her family, particularly vicious the Democrats' and the liberal media's attacks on her teenage daughters.

The vicious tactics by Dems and the liberal media in the 2012 election, portraying Romney as a racist white supremacist, attacking his religion, his whiteness and his wealth. The liberal media bias particularly on display with presidential debate moderators Candy Crowly and Martha Raddatz, who acted more as co-debators siding with Obama and Biden than as moderators, and Crowly who propagandized false facts that CNN only corrected quietly days after the debate later when no one was watching. Most of the public never saw the true, corrected facts, just what was propagandized in the prime-time debate.

It was after the 2008 and 2012 presidential elections that I came to the conclusion that there is absolutely no compromising with the Democrats, no possibility of bipartisan compromise with the Democrats. In McCain and Romney, Republicans offered the two most moderate, bipartisan and milquetoast Republicans they could possibly offer, and yet both were demonized as right wing, nazi, racist, white supremacist, crazy.
That was the proof that no matter who Republicans offer in any future election, they will be unfairly demonized. Likewise, George W. Bush in 2000 was a very bipartisan Texas governor, who as president gave the Democrats a ton of legislation they wanted in big government spending in a gesture of bipartisanship, and even he was viciously slandered and demonized by Democrats as nazi, racist, etc.

And then ultimately, 2016, where the Obama administration weaponized the FBI, DOJ, and virtually every federal agency against Trump's election, and then against Trump's inaugurated administration. This is by far the worst political scandal and threat to our constitutional republic in American history.
As one example, there were 39 separate Obama officials From Dec 2016-Jan 2017 who requested unmasking of Michael Flynn in FISA surveillance transcripts: Susan Rice, James Comey, Sally Yates. 6 requests by Jack Lew in the treasury Department! Susan Power, the U.N. ambassador! Joseph Biden!
The Democrat party wanted to usurp an elected president and throw innocent men in jail, just to remove Trump. There are already extensive documents that show Obama himself was orchestrating this effort, with plenty more documents and transcripts pending release. And in a just world where this is prosecuted, Obama and those around him should go to jail for their crimes. Crimes!
Biden as well was in that Jan 5 2017 meeting, physically if not mentally, and Biden himself was one of those 39 requesting Flynn's FISA surveillance unmasking.

So... you ask if I suspect the Democrat party of using any ruthless means to remove Trump to win an election.
Yes.
FUCK YES!
There is absolute proof and at least a 20-year history of Democrats using these kind of increasingly ruthless tactics, whatever will give them power.

And likewise, every conservative critic in the Clinton years was annually audited by a Clinton-weaponized IRS.
Likeise under LBJ.
And JFK.
Likewise under FDR. Read the book on FDR, New Deal or Raw Deal, by Burton Folsom, Jr. FDR pioneered using federal funds to buy political districts. Beyond his other authoritarian abuses of power. He also tried using his presidential power to frame, imprison, and completely destroy the lives of his political opponents and critics.
And going back to Woodrow Wilson, Wilson also used government powers to silence critics, make arrests of opponents, and to harass and shut down newspapers critical of him.

So yes. I believe that, based on the absolute facts. Your party is evil to the core.

I'm actually in a fortunate position where I can wait things out indefinitely, and can remain at home. I've actually lost about 20 pounds, have been exercising more, and spending more time outdoors than I have since college. I wear a mask when I go to any public places, but outdoors, I quickly saw that it's rare I get within 50 or 100 feet of another person, so I forego the mask when I'm walking or running.

I don't want to get complacent, but out of 1.5 million people in Palm Beach County, there are currently 5,429 reported cases, 1,064 hospitalizations, and 315 deaths. And I don't know anyone who has been infected. Of those total cases, an undisclosed number have already recovered.
And in fact... I had a mild fever and flu symptoms beginning on March 11th, that lasted about 5 weeks. When asked by others, I was dismissive that it could be Covid-19. But 5 weeks was a long time to have fever (below 100 degrees mostly), chills, body aches, sore throat, and especially for me, burning in my eyes and sinuses. And it's very unusual for me to be sick for that length of time, usually only 7 to 10 days at most.
But as more information came out about less severe Covid-19 cases, and the timing, I'm less dismissive, it possibly could have been Covid-19. I didn't leave the house for 7 weeks, and luckily I had a good stock of groceries, so I didn't have to. It could also have been the annual flu strain, which is said to be unusually brutal this year. I initially wanted to get a test in retrospect to find out for sure, but they weren't easily available for a long time. I might just purchase a home test, to find out.


One other time in 2011 I had a bad flu with severe body aches that lasted about 4 weeks, that in retrospect I think could have been Swine Flu. I had really sharp pains in my muscles and bones, particularly my cheek bones, like no other illness I've had. At the time, I was unaware there was even a Swine Flu outbreak. In restrospect I found out, that would explain the severe symptoms.

It might be worth getting the test to see if you did already have had it WB. I don’t think they know much about the antibodies and how much that shields you but as more info comes out it might be handy to know.

I remember seeing a lot of packed open beaches for spring break at a time Desantis certainly knew Coronavirus was highly contagious. I think that makes it clear he chose that over public safety. That doesn’t deserve praise imho.



Sorry I skimmed the thread and you put it more as Dems wishing coronavirus and recession on the country. Not a big difference imho but I do recognize I misstated what you said unintentionally.


Interesting that just today I see Trump going after Twitter because it dared to fact check him while he’s got his toady at the justice department investigating something legal like unmasking. Something like lying to the FBI, a federal crime though isn’t worth pursuing. And that’s just today. I think true greatness is hard to destroy and FDR is certainly that. Social Security to this day allow more seniors to enjoy retirement instead of dying in poverty. That’s just one of the things FDR was able to accomplish that republicans hate him for. Evil is not wanting people to get off a cruise ship because it will make the official number go up. And it’s all on tape WB. After we’re all long dead history will see Trump’s “greatness” for itself.

At the time of spring break in early March, states were not even considering a shutdown. I recall there was increasingly a call for that nationwide in late March, As I recall Desantis finally ordered a stay-at-home lockdown to go into effect April 2nd. That was maybe a week after some other states began to shut down, and many others shut down long after Florida. I felt it was a bit slow and in the absence of available testing, I made clear in my comments then I wanted the lockdown.
But now, as demonstrated in other nations like Sweden, and states in the U.S. that never fully locked down, locking down or not didn't result in any significant difference in numbers.

I don't see that there is a case to make that Desantis was any less concerned about public safety than other governors. In retrospect, he made a good decision to focus early on with protecting the most vulnerable in nursing homes. As compared with NY, NJ, CT, RI, PA, MI and other states who had far higher deaths, particularly among the elderly. I don't understand the reluctance to give Desantis credit, in a state with a larger population than New York state and a far larger over-65 population, where he has managed far lower numbers of cases and deaths.
Whereas PA, NY and NJ in particular, turned elderly nursing homes into incubators of death. And in Cuomo's case, he re-wwrote the law after-the-fact to exonerate himself of liability for the deaths he caused!
And likewise, the PA health dept director assured the public of PA nursing home safety, while quietly moving her own 95 year old mother out to safety, while creating the situation where so many others' elderly parents died due to what she clearly knew was a danger she created, while giving public assurances she knew were false.




I appreciate the retraction. I do think there's a huge difference in believing Democrat leadership wants people sick or dead (that I never said).
And that I see Democrats as clearly exploiting the lockdowns to hurt Trump economically, that some (not all) Democrats have clearly expressed publicly in the media.
I find it highly suspect that Democrat governors in NY, NJ, Maine, MI, CA are tyranically fighting "against the actual science" to keep lockdowns going, when again, comparing infections in European countries and in U.S. states that didn't lock down are virtually the same as those that did, persuasively making the argument that lockdowns aren't having an effect, other than wrecking the economy.
I'm frankly amazed that the stock market (which initially peaked at 29,551 on Feb 12th, before tanking 10,000 points to 19,173 on March 20th) has already climbed back to about 35,550 this week, and only slightly down to about 35,400 right now. Which is about only 4,000 points from its all-time high.

Likewise, in spite of Covid-19, the country is already coming back economically. Despite Dems' attempts to keep it shut down. Without "science" to back it up, I don't understand the logic of a continued shutdown... except y'know... hate Trump!

While I'm certainly not going to restaurants or bars or crowded beaches anytime soon, I understand that those under 45 are at a much lower risk. So many of them have no inhibitions, and have weighed whether the risk is worth the reward.

I saw a doctor on Laura Ingraham's show last night who said that about 10,000 a week will continue to die if infection continues at the current rate for three months, and that would be another 180,000 by September. But lockdown or no, that rate will remain the same. Most people get Covid-19 from being home with someone who is sick, not from going to a crowded beach in 85-degree weather, where (as a CDC official cited) the virus lives about 75 seconds outside a host.
Ingraham argues that it is on a downward trend, though, and she doesn't see it lasting that long, citing the swift departure of SARS and other similar outbreaks of other coronaviruses. Both Ingraham and the Dr. cited the need to rush clinical testing of Hydroxychloroquine and other treatments, to loweer those numbers regardless. I find it infuriating that over 2 months (April-May) where 2000-2700 a day were dying that Hydroxychloroquine wasn't used more. One doctor (Smith, also interviewed by Ingraham this week) said of the hundreds he treated with hydroxychloroquine, over 91% recovered. Imagine the last 3 months where 91% got that treatment and survived. And yet... CDC and NIH officialss didn't even do a clinical study in that 3 months!
There is some weird conspiracy against Hydroxychloroquine, when doctors in 30 other countries recommend it as their drug of choice to save Covid-19 patients. Some countries even give it out for free! But Fauci, Redfield and other officials and political leaders obstruct its use and testing, despite that it has been proven safe and heavily prescribed since 1955 for Lupus, Malaria, Lyme disease and Arthritis.





Barr is far too respected and accomplished a lawyer to dismiss as a "toady". He's made it clear he enforces the rule of law, and whether Dems or the media or Trump himself tries to obstruct the law, he will walk away.
It's quite clear that Obama officials (39 of them unmasking Flynn alone!!) had a very unusually high amount of politically motivated unmaskings. Far higher than in either the W. Bush or Trump administrations. That warrants further investigation. I don't know what you're implying about Trump (implied, not factually cited) but it's clear the corruption all the way up and down the chain in the Obama administration.
And with Sally Yates' Jan 5 2017 memo, it clearly involves Barack Obama himself in orchestrating the set-up of Flynn. Obama, Biden, Comey, Yates, Clapper, Rice, Brennan were all in that conspiratorial meeting.
Likewise the August 2016 texts between Peter Strzok and Lisa Page: "POTUS wants to see everything we are working on."


FDR prolonged the Great Depression with his New Deal programs. He is given credit for ending the Great Depression, but right up till 1941 it dragged on, only ended by war production for Britain and then Russia. And then U.S. direct involvement in the war. Mark Levin does a good job of citing the abuses of FDR, and the people FDR destroyed for purely political reasons.
As does the NEW DEAL OR RAW DEAL book I cited above. The buying and selling of influence with federal funds is something that began under FDR. Social security has always been a ponzi scheme that would eventually go broke for those further down the pyramid. And it doesn't help that the House and Senate have been diverting funds from Social Security for decades (both Democrats and Republicans).

Pat Buchanan in DEATH OF THE WEST has some good insights into how Social Security destroyed our society and unity, in ways that were later expanded under FDR's Great Society legislation, and 1965 immigration reform. It incentivized breaking up (or not having at all) families and marriages, and contributed to a decline in the birth rate by creating a new system that discouraged the tradition of having children as a safety net in old age. Abortion and the birth control pill finished the destruction of the old social order in the 1958-1973 period.

Trump didn't want the cruise ship to dismebark in San Diego because it would potentially spread and infect even more people. And because even with Trump delaying the removal of cruiseship pasengers a week or so to prepare a safe non-infectious disembarkation, CDC still fucked up the disembarkation with inadequate precautions and safety measures, so it actually did result in passengers spreading the virus to others, exactly as Trump feared, that Trump delayed to prevent, and CDC still didn't adequately prepare for.

You keep trying to demonize Trump for decisions he made that make perfect sense. If Obama or Hillary or Biden were in charge during this pandemic, we'd have over 2 million cases, and you'd be saying "Hey, everything's great, they're doing such a great job."
But it was Trump who initiated a travel ban, despite opposition of the "experts" at the NIH, CDC and WHO who discouraged the travel ban, that prevented 20,000 potential infected-carrier Chinese travelers a day from arriving.
It was Trump who started a trade war that diminished our dependence on Chinese imports over the last year before the pandemic began.
And it was Trump who secured our southern border that no Democrat would have ever done. If Obama, Hillary or Biden were in charge, one or all those preventive measures *NOT* put in place would have caused 2 million deaths.

You should thank God every day Trump is president.

https://www.vox.com/2020/5/16/21259492/covid-antibodies-spain-serology-study-coronavirus-immunity


Despite VOX's spoon-fed liberal-talking-points lying narrative version of the Spain study of Covid-19 infections, the bottom line is that a larger ratio of the population in Spain were infected than initially known, with a far lower fatality rate.
If 5% of Spain was infected and has antibodies (with 27,000 deaths), if the remaining 95% were infected (and they won't, a disease never infects 100%, most infect 30% to 60%), that ratio would result in 513,000 more deaths.

More importantly relative to the U.S., the Spain study shows that even with an even more severe lockdown than the U.S., that a higher ratio of those sheltered at home were infected than among the "essential" workers who were not sheltered.

Again showing that the governors of New York, New Jersey, Michigan and California attempting to abuse their authority to impose extended lockdowns are doing so without a logical reason, as the science does not back the argument for a shut-down. Reinforcing that it it is being done for political reasons. (i.e. HATE TRUMP! And to aid the Democrats in the Nov 2020 election, by 1) hurting Trump's economy, and 2) rationalizing mail-in ballots that Democrats are masters at stealing elections with.)

You leave out that Trump put forward the CDC guidelines to reopening and that every state is opening faster than what those guidelines suggest. Trying to force people to vote in person during a pandemic instead of a mail in vote because Trump is scared he’ll lose is plain evil. Mail in voting exists in states before this and it works fine. You can make all the accusations you want but my folks deserve to be able to vote safely.

First, the re-openings in Democrat states are happening IN SPITE OF Democrat leaders, not because of them. Despite every attempt by Democrat governors to prolong the lockdowns for political/Democrat reasons, the people are angrily marching on their capitals demanding that the states re-open. As has also occurred in Europeean nations.

Second, under reasonable precautions, people are not only going back to work, but also returning to their usual activvities such as visiting beaches and parks, and shopping.
Florida, including my native Boca Raton, re-opened on April 13th, even the local malls and beaches. A majority wearing protective masks and social distancing, but re-opened nonetheless. Even the protest marches and riots in cities nationwide over the death of George Floyd are occurring, a large ratio without even protective masks. If people can go out in crowded protests, they can vote in person and don't require mail-in ballots.

My father, who is 86, and my mother who is 84, both went to their local voting precincts in March at the peak of the Covid-19 lockdown, just before the complete Florida lockdown began on April 4th. As I said, I wasn't' feeling well, and erred on the side of caution and didn't vote.
Now that the numbers are declining, you still allege mail-in ballots are necessary? The election is still 5 months away, and the downtrend in cases should be approaching zero by October/November.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/COVID-19_pandemic_in_the_United_States#Progression_charts
Yours is a political rationalization, not a scientific one.

According to a report on One America News a few days ago, despite that Hillary Clinton allegedly won the popular vote by 2.8 million, there were 6 million mail-in ballots nationwide that oddly went missing and were never counted, no explanation ever found or given for the missing ballots. In the last 4 elections, a total of 30 million mail-in ballots have disappeared. Any honest assessment is that mail-in ballots are easier to manipulate and falsify, and there have been way too many close elections where a Republican appears to have won, and then a box of Democrat ballots pop out of a magic hat out of nowhere to give the victory to a Democrat.
One example, I give you the victory for now-disgraced Senator Al Franken.

It was mail-in ballots, after a change in election laws in California that allowed ballot-harvesting, that mysteriously caused a long-Republican stronghold House district to go Democrat by a narrow margin.
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/ballot-...nia-republicans
But Republicans were ambushed by the ballot-harvest law change in 2018. And while they think it should be illegal, they are prepared to match the Democrats in the 2020 campaign for that district, and take it back. While ballot-harvesting remains legal in California, Repupbicans are now prepared to fight fire with fire.

BROWARD COUNTY 911 CALL DISPATCHERS LEFT AT THE MERCY OF COVID-19 AS MANAGEMENT'S SAFETY RESPONSE FALTERED


I worked in a similar cubicle environment on phones from 1997-2001 for two different companies. To some degree, I think management should not be overly blamed, because it was early on in the outbreak, and until the first week of April, even the CDC experts were not advising the public to wear protective masks.
But 911 call center management were definitely to blame for not even giving employees alcohol and sanitary wipes to clean their cubicle workspaces. Particularly when other workers on different shifts use the exact same desks. When you have over 10% of your workers getting Covid-19, there is clearly a serious worker-safety issue not addressed.

But for the grace of God... how many of us work in similar cubicle environments?

You totally side step the whole fact that the CDC/Trump administration has issued the guidelines that the governors are using. I believe all states are actually opening things up faster than what those Trump administration guidelines are. I do understand that Trump after putting out those guidelines sidelined the CDC and is pushing for a faster reopening if I understand his tweets and insults. That isn’t really good leadership especially during a pandemic. So governors not only have to deal with a pandemic but also political attacks from the very person who originally supported those guidelines. And my folks should not have to risk their lives to vote. I’m so tired of the crazy partisan accusations that lack any values other than trying to protect your political party from being voted out in disgust by the people they were supposed to serve.

The crazy partisan actions and flatout lying propaganda is overwhelmingly coming from the Democrat side.

I wish I'd quoted the Australian president a week or two ago when that nation opened their economy (once again, only reported and quoted on One America News, not on CNN, MSNBC or even FOX). The Austalian president said quite honestly to his people: there will be setbacks, there will be further outbreaks, further clusters, further un-anticpated complications, but overall this is the right thing to do for the nation. I wonder if any other nation has an opposition party or news media that are so unrelentingly hostile to their president, no matter what he does right.
During the Dec 2019/January 2020 impeachment hearings, Newt Gingrich pointed out (as has Media Research Center) that the news media that had already reached 93% negative coverage (CNN and NBC) early in Trump's presidency reached 100% negative coverage of Trump during the Jan impeachment hearings. Gingrich commented that it is remarkable that Trump could have 100% negative coverage and yet remain at or near 50% in the polls. On most given days with popularity at or higher than Obama had at the same point in his presidency. Even with the adoring liberal media being the wind at Obama's back and flying cover for him, and that same media conversely being 100% hostile to Trump, trying to tear him down at every turn.

Again: I live in one of the hardest hit regions of Florida, one of only 3 counties still locked down. In a county of 1.5 million people, there are approximately 6,000 reported cases, approximately 1,100 hospitalizations, and approximately 319 deaths. And that is the total cumulative reported, with no specifics disclosed of how many have recovered. If it's the same as the rest of the nation, about 30% have fully recovered at this point, and the curve is overall steadily trending down. So I think it's ridiculous to want to completely shut down everything for such a small number at risk. As Governor Desantis of Florida has done, he has targeted protection of the elderly and immune-compromised, and as a result, despite Florida having a far larger overall population and a far higher elerly population than New York, Florida has far less cases and deaths than New York. And a far lower ratio than NJ, and than PA, MA, RI, and MI.

It is clear that these states, governed by Democrats, want to weaponize lockdowns to tank the economies of their states as a way to bring down Trump's popularity right before an election. But they are only hurting themselves in the process, because even Democrats in those states see what is being attempted, at their expense. And they are angrily protesting in the streets for their Democrat governors to let them work again. Even Democrats are turning on the Democrat governors.

And as shown yesterday, where the Dow has already returned from is recent low of 19,173 (March 20th), down over 10,000 points from its all-time high of 29,551 (Feb 12th), it has already at this intermediate stage of recovery rocketed to 27,100 yesterday, gaining 826 points from the previous day, and less than 2,400 points from its all-time high!
And that's with partisan lockdowns vindictively prolonged by Dem governors for purely political reasons in NY, NJ, MI, CT, RI, MA and CA, some of the economic giant states! I don't see Democrats being able to keep this deceptive partisan lockdown stunt going much longer. The science doesn't back it up.

Again see the CDC’s/Trump administration’s guidelines on reopening. You want to pretend they don’t exist? The governors don’t exist in a vacuum where only Trump gets blamed for the high unemployment so I don’t even understand how you can even think this is political maneuvering on their part. I know my governor is trying to open things as quickly as he can as safely as he can. Trump has made that harder by now ignoring what he and his own administration put out as guidelines. Yesterday I saw an article that he had the reporters chairs put closer together in the press pool than what the CDC recommends because it looked better. It’s hard to understand anyone who thinks their on the side of good being okay with Trump.

I watched a news report last night on OAN, that scientists researching a Covid-19 vaccine say the cases are declining worldwide, regardless of shutdowns. And as has widely been reported elsewhere, that the nations that did complete shutdowns really didn't fare any significant advantage over the nations that didn't do a shutdown.
So your latest talking points are just another lying narrative calculated to hurt Trump and the Republicans. Trump's reason for ending the shutdown is not carelessness, it's not "greed", it's not a focus on the economy at the expense of human lives, or any of the other lying narratives the Democrat leadership and their P R wing in the liberal media are selling.
The reason the lockdowns are largely endding, not just in the U.S., but in nations worldwide, is because they are not making much if any difference.

And in the U.S. in particular, they are being abused by blue-state governors, enforced arbitrarily to target conservative businesses such as churches and gun stores and small business owners, and for no logical reason, simultaneously allowing liberal enterprises like marijuana shops and abortion clinics and large corporate chains like Walmart to remain open. The true goal of shutdowns in the U.S. at this point is to hurt Trump's chances of re-election, to prevent a strong ecomonic recovery before the November election. And polls show the majoity of the American public knows it.

Further, the Covid-19 outbreak is slowing so much worldwide that research companies are concerned they will not be able to find a cure before the outbreak disappears, or even that the number of cases will be so low that they can't find enough infected people to thoroughly test a ready vaccine!

Another astonishing manifestation that the smart people see the crisis is passing (despite collaborative Democrat/liberal media lying narrative, hyperbolically trying to create and prolong nationwide panic) the stock market is up again today another 461 points, closing at 27,572, less than 2,000 points from the market's all-time high!
( 29,551, on Feb 12th, just before the pandemic tanked the market down 10,000 points.)

Now... why would that be happening? These are the wealthiest, smarkest investors on the planet.

Because even without a cure in sight, a vaccine at least 5-8 months away, if ever, they see that the crisis is passing. Estimates I'm seeing now are that even if the outbreak continues, most cases are minimal or symptomless, and results in death at a ratio between 0.02% of all cases, or possibly as low 0.001% of all cases. Which is either equivalent to or lower than the fatality of a typical annual flu virus.

Granted, we didn't know that 3 months ago, when the shutdown began, but we sure as hell know it now. In spite of Democrat/liberal media collaborative attempts to manipulate and politicize the facts for their own purpose. But unless you're relying on CNN or MSNBC or the N Y Times or Washington Post, you know that the science just doesn't back up that lying Democrat narrative.

What does the CDC say WB? OAN is not really anything I would trust to even attempt to do balanced reporting. I know New Zealand now says it’s at zero cases. Florida now seems to have a lot of nursing home deaths. (Not crowing about that btw).

The CDC that told us till March 11th that Covid-19 was not a threat to the United States?
The CDC that same day who told a guy calling in a question to Dr. Fauci on CNN, hesitant to go on a cruise, that it was safe and to go ahead on his trip. It turned out for many a week or two later that being on a Covid-19-infected cruise ship was the absolute worst place on earth to be.
The CDC that told us for months not to wear a mask, then in early April suddenly went polar opposite and said it was mandatory that everyone has to wear a protective mask. Never a clear expanation for the polar reversal, no apology. Oops!

The CDC that has declared a partisan holy war on the use of hydroxychloroquine, despite its proven effectiveness by the French eqquivalent of the CDC, and is the Covid-19 treatment medication of choice of a majority of doctors polled in at least 30 nations. Several nations actually hand out hydroxychloroquine for free, as a preventive medication, and to treat in its early stages so as not to later result in hospitalization and/or death.
(OAN, by the way, more than any other network has championed getting the true facts out to the public, with almost daily reports on the medication, and several 30-minute and one-hour specials.)

The CDC, who fucked up preparing a Covid-19 test early on, so that it took two months to finally get a reliable test to the public. It was only the intervention of Trump circumnavigating CDC's bureaucracy to find out they has accidentally infected their own CDC lab and rendered it unusable for at least a month, that experts from outside the CDC were finally able, in site of the CDC, to develop a reliable test and mass-produce it! To the point that in late April nationwide testing went from 1.5 million tested to 4 million, and up to now 20 million.
The CDC (Drs Fauci and Redfield) in late January also urged Trump not to initiate a ban on travel from China. A month later, Fauci on CNN acknowledged that Trump's travel ban was the single greatest strategic move, that bought the nation time to prepare and bend the curve.
Again, in spite of CDC, not because of.

Fauci is a bureaucrat who has been in his position for 40 years, and I think is influenced much more by political considerations than doing the right thing. As soon as this crisis passes, Fauci should be fired and replaced.
Despite several similar deceptions by China, Fauci took the Chinese at their word, and if not for Trump, would have made no preparations. Fauci was oblivious till mid March.
Fauci and the NIH also gave the Chinese bioresearch institute 3.7 million in U.S. funds to do the very bat-virus research that caused the outbreak! Despite that they knew for at least 2 or 3 years the unsafe conditions of the lab. CDC funded the virus that was unleashed on us!! Despite years of advaance warnings!!

So, yeah. To Hell with the CDC under its present leadership. They let us down almost as much as China and the World Health Organization.

God help us if Trump were not in charge, we would have had open borders with Mexico, open borders with China with 20,000 travelers a day with potential Coronavirus. Without Trump and aa year of trade war preceding the pandemic, we would have been far more reliant on non-existent with-held imports from China when the crisis hit. And the death-toll would far more likely have been in the initially-predicted 1 to 2 million range.
And we would have been, as China threatened, "drowning in a mighty sea of coronavirus".

Fuck the CDC.
And I trust OAN more than I trust a liberal media that daily repeats Chinese talking points, and sides against the United States.