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Disco Steve posted this on the Identity Crisis thread and, rather than pull that thread even farther away from the original subject, I thought I'd start a new one to discuss his point: Quote:
Disco Steve said:
Personally, I think everyone from the old JSA should be dead by now
Most of the original JSA's began their careers in the late 30s or early 40s. Assuming, for example, that Flash was about 20 when he began his career in 1940 (he was in college at the time), he'd be 84 now. Alan Scott was already a college grad when he became Green Lantern. He'd be closer to 90. Same thing with the Golden Age Starman.
Granted, there have been spells and stays in limbo to keep them a bit younger, but not that many, right?
Furthermore, many of them are being portrayed as having children still in their 20s or 30s. That means they had their kids in their 60s or 70s.
At what point do WWII era superheroes simply become "too old" to still work in a modern setting?
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I'm glad to hear a post of mine has sparked at least an attempt at further conversation.
When WWII occurred 60 years ago is when they've become too old. Most of them were rid of in that Zero Hour crossover.
Or, when most of their original fans are dead.
Captain America had an excuse, at least. Frozen for a few decades. I think someone came up with the idea of super soldier serum and being frozen keeping him from aging (was it Neil Gaiman, perhaps?), so he's perfectly safe.
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Ice 'em. I don't give a shit.
I do wish writers would age characters (albeit slightly) through the years. Dick being Robin for 25 years was fuckin' crazy. I don't even know how old Spidey's supposed to be now... late 20's/early 30's maybe?
He fixes the cable?
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Actually, most of the original JSA are dead. There are only four of the originals still around and these are through plausible (in DC/comicbook terms) means.
Green Lantern. Merged with the Starheart. No longer human.
Flash. Kept younger than he should be by the speed force.
Hawkman. Reincarnates. You kill him, he's just reborn.
Wildcat. Was given "nine lives" by Grant Morrison. I think he's on life seven or eight, now though.
I'm not counting the ridiculously stupid Johnny Thunderbolt creation or the current stories with the original Hourman (because he is dead, and is only around now because of a temporal anomaly).
Ma Hunkel, though, should be daid. She was old when her series debuted. Having her still around is beyond pushing it, even in terms of comic "timelines."
So, in terms of the originals, it's largely a moot argument. As far as their kids go, their ages should be closer to the ages of characters from the Silver Age era, such as Barry Allen, Hal Jordan, etc., rather than modern characters such as Kyle Rayner or Connor Hawke.
I would say, rather, time to do away with this ridiculous "sliding scale" timeline and let some people age, and maybe even die. Dick Grayson gets older but Bruce Wayne doesn't? It's just stupid.
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Bruce Wayne is uber-rich. Facelifts abounds. And don't forget the Botox.
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Aaahh, Botox. Disco you make the pain go away.
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If this was the '60s, it would be clumsily named "Bat-Botox". 
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Quote:
Grimm said:
Aaahh, Botox. Disco you make the pain go away.
In more ways than one... 
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Hm, I might just let thier murder slide, however, I can't help but feel keeping them alive will allow their writers to pull some nice "connection from the past" storylines (like the King of Tears) which might or might not work as well with their children.
Also, so far, every flashback into the 40s and 50s in Starman and JSA (New Frontier, too) has been a real treat, storywise. These times make for so much better settings... So I wanna at least keep Sentinel, old man Flash and Wildcat around for some time.
Think clean thoughts, chum.
-The Batman
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I think it'd be cooler if stuff from the JSA's past came back to bite the new team in the arse and, with all the original members being dead, the kids having no idea what to do. No Jay Garrick to explain things for everyone. Let them figure things out themselves.
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I'm all for letting comic book universe time pass at roughly the same speed as our own. There's no reason, really, to keep these characters going forever.
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Aside from the fact they're proven generators of income, of course.
As opposed to unproven or failed substitutes - say, for example, The Blasters.
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I believe that if companies took the effort to find and enlist a good VARIETY of great writers, instead of three or four "superstars," losing readership and profits wouldn't be a problem. Readers have accepted the loss of heroes when the story was done right, and they've accepted new heroes, even those that took a pre-existing superhero identity, when the story was done right.
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I thought Johns was committed to bring back every single golden age character in the JSA book?
I totally agree that the JSA needs to move on, but there's no way it's gonna happen while Johns is there.
"Power corrupts. Absolute power is kind of neat."
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Quote:
Wednesday said:
I believe that if companies took the effort to find and enlist a good VARIETY of great writers, instead of three or four "superstars," losing readership and profits wouldn't be a problem. Readers have accepted the loss of heroes when the story was done right, and they've accepted new heroes, even those that took a pre-existing superhero identity, when the story was done right.
Like Wally West!
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Now I seem to remember a story (I think it was in All Star Squadron) where the golden age heroes fought some uber powerful guy who exploded showering them with temporal energy or something like that,and that was the reason they age slower than normal people.
Ma Hunkel to my knowledge would have been in her 40s when she debuted,so she'd be over a hundred by now I reckon!
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The shadow energy of Ian Karkull is what Nowhereman refers to...
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I like the JSA, and I'd actually love to see a JSA book featuring ALL the originals again. Preferably taking place in the 1940s.
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I point you to JSA: Strange Adventures out now.
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Quote:
Nowhereman said:
Now I seem to remember a story (I think it was in All Star Squadron) where the golden age heroes fought some uber powerful guy who exploded showering them with temporal energy or something like that,and that was the reason they age slower than normal people.
Ma Hunkel to my knowledge would have been in her 40s when she debuted,so she'd be over a hundred by now I reckon!
All Star Squadron Annual 3, IIRC. Only Wildcat wasn't there: the rest of them were immersed in the energies. Roy Thomas' slightly lame effort to explain why they all were kicking arse even though they were 70.
While I'd like to see a new All Star Squadron book, I much prefer the JSA: Liberty Files.
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I know the JSA was in limbo fighting some demon for like 25yrs (comics time) and that while there, time was suspended. But what about their kids? Shouldn't Jade and the rest be at least close to their 50's?
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I think you'd better check your sources a bit more closely. The JSA went into the fake Asgardian dimension in 1986 (LAST DAYS OF THE JSA special), which took place immediately after the CRISIS in the current timeline, and were released in 1991 or 1992 (ARMAGEDDON: INFERNO miniseries), which takes place about a year before ZERO HOUR in the current timeline. Any which way you cut it, that ain't twenty-five years. Or maybe I just missed the last retcon memo or something, and my info is all out of date. I dunno.
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I said 25yrs in their time, not ours.
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But that's his point. It's not 25 years, either way. Their time or ours.
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Quote:
Grimm said:
But that's his point. It's not 25 years, either way. Their time or ours.
How long was it? I thought it was after they were forced to retire?
Last edited by Doc.Mid-Nite; 2004-08-19 8:10 AM.
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I think that story was set in the 50's. They may be old guffers but it just wouldn't be the JSA for me without the original Lantern & Flash. My grandmother was welding battleships in WW2 & is still capable of cleaning a house. So having Ma Hunkle in the JSA headquarters doesn't bother me one bit.
Fair play!
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No, that story happened directly after Crisis. '86 our time. The timeline here places their time in limbo to be about three years (remember the compressed timeline the DCU operates under. Real life, it was about five or six years.
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Yes it happened after Crisis.
Wildcat was crippled during the Crisis but was amazed to find he could walk again in limbo (or whatever it was).
I think Doc is getting confused with the Seven soldiers of victory who did enter some kind of limbo in the 40's only to return in the 70s still youthful,hence Star Spangled Kid/Skyman still being young as a member of Infinity Inc.
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Well, yeah. Wasn't Infinity Inc formed after most of the younger guys were rejected membership in the JSA? Didn't the Seven Soldiers go to Earth X or whatever?
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The Freedom Fighters went to Earth-X. The Seven Soldiers of Victory were scattered throughout various eras of time.
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Quote:
Doc.Mid-Nite said:
Wasn't Infinity Inc formed after most of the younger guys were rejected membership in the JSA?
I thought they were mostly the children/grandchildren of the heroes and villains from that era...
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They were mostly the children of the JSA, yes.
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Yeah, SSK, Brainwave, Doctor Mid-Nite II (Beth Chapel), and Norda weren't related by blood to anyone. Brainwave's father, Brainwave I, was a GA villain though.
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They were turned down by the JSA!
Nuklon & Silver Scarab et al,were all turned down by the JSA (specifically Hawkman) saying they were just kids & Star Spangled Kid took offense & fucked off to form Infinity Inc.
Both Huntress & Powergirl went with him initially!
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I also don't mind seeing Ma Hunkel around. I mean, she's dusting statues and making soup, not fighting the Injustice Society.
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Hawkman drinks Ma Hunkel's soup....
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Quote:
King Snarf said:
I also don't mind seeing Ma Hunkel around. I mean, she's dusting statues and making soup, not fighting the Injustice Society.
You think drinking the soup of a woman over 100 years old is good?
You sick freak!
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