Anyway, here's my take on Jack Kirby.

Jack Kirby is to comic book art what Elvis Presley was to rock and roll. He was the guy who pretty much invented it.

There were others before him that did similar things but didn't quite capture the magic. There were others about the same time who might have been more technically proficient. But in each case (Kirby and Elvis) they had some special, indescribable, mixture of talent, style and that "x" factor to be the artist that made everyone take notice and, therefore, pretty much invented "the language" of their genre.

Both Kirby and Elvis might have declined in their later years but that doesn't diminish their influence on everyone else.

No wonder we call both "the King."

G - Man :

Well Put! That is how I feel about Jack Kirby, too!!!

Yeah,Dick Dillin thats the guy!

Gotta disagree about the comparison to Elvis!
Elvis was a great singer up to when he died (ok so live he was mostly in a drugged up stupor) and to my mind actually released some of his best records!

Kirby didnt deteriorate either,his style stayed the same so to me all his work looked nasty!
There were far superior artists from the 30's onwards who dont get half the credit Kirby does!
To my mind the only reason Kirby has been given the stature he has is due to the fact when Marvel launched in the 60's,he pencilled the bulk of the titles giving him an iconic status far beyond his actual talent!

Wow, you guys have been busy since the last time I posted here !





Thanks for your response, Beardguy.

Sorry about the Claremont thing. But take heart, there's as many really kind and supportive creators as there are abrasive egomaniacs in the comics field. Don't let one rude experience discourage you. Lots of others would be glad to look at your stuff and give you feedback.

I've had some similar responses when I've shown my stuff to other creators. Although I mostly submitted stuff to them by mail.
I've gotten nice encouraging letters from Karen Berger, Richard Corben, Sean Deming (a former editor for Eclipse), Will Eisner, and a few others.

Deming sent me a discarded AIRBOY script, with hand written notes on it by Chuck Dixon, warmly welcoming penciller Stan Woch back to the series (AIRBOY # 33). It was the first comic script I'd seen, that by example, showed me how to format a complete script.

I also got responses to submissions with similar guidelines from Randy Stradley (Dark Horse), and Tom DeFalco (Marvel's then-editor-in-chief, in the post-Shooter era).

But I also had an encounter somewhat similar to your experience with Claremont:

Jim Starlin, who I met at a show in Miami in February 1993, similarly wouldn't look at my stuff. He raised his voice a little bit when I pulled out my script for him.
He said that he used to look at scripts, until he published WARLOCK, and some fanboy bitterly accused Starlin of stealing the concepts in that series from a script he'd shown Starlin a year or two prior. So he said since then, he doesn't look at people's work.

Grim business, that.

Conversely, one time, I mailed a script I wrote to Scott Hampton, to see if he'd want to draw it, a Twilight Zone-type story that partly dealt with runaways and child abuse.
He didn't send me a letter back.
Instead he called me at home, and spoke to me for an hour on his tab, offering me suggestions, primarily that I expand it to a graphic novel instead of a 7-page story, and I'd have a better likelihood of selling it. That was about the most encouraging and considerate response I got from a comics creator.
I'd intended to expand my story to a graphic novel as Hampton suggested, but you know... life intervened. And I never got around to it. But I still plan to.

He also suggested that whether you're a writer or an artist, a good way to get your foot in the door is to find a professional who likes your work and can collaborate with you. That way there's a name connected to the project that a publisher already knows, and they're more willing to publish it.
As it turned out, Hampton told me he was working on a similar project at that time, with writer Archie Goodwin, that also dealt with child abuse, so he didn't want to do two similar stories at the same time.
The BATMAN:NIGHT CRIES graphic novel he described was published about 6 months after we spoke.

I've heard Claremont can be rather rude to fans. He has a reputation similar to Harlan Ellison, he can be friendly, or he can be abrasive with fans, depending on his mood.

I met Ellison at the 1987 San Diego Con as well, and was a bit intimidated at first, by stories from friends who'd met him over the years before then.
One told me that when Ellison asked him during a literary discussion if he'd read Gulliver's Travels and responded to Ellison that no, he hadn't, Ellison had waved his hand in the guy's face in a dismissive gesture and said "Illiterate asshole...", and then Ellison ignored him and turned to others present.
So I was eager but hesitant to meet Ellison.

And I was very surprised how gracious and friendly Ellison was. He signed a few of my books.
And that was one of the highlights of the 1987 San Diego Con, when Ellison spoke in a large auditorium room for over an hour.
Ellison's presentation was part commentary on the industry, and part stand-up comedy. He was very funny. One example:
"Spiderman is swinging through the center of Manhattan 70 stories up, and there's not a bathroom in sight... and you thought that was an air conditioner !..."

He ripped on Jim Shooter a bit.
And on DC's censorship plans, to establish ratings, that had caused Alan Moore, Frank Miller, Marv Wolfman and others to resign, and to bash DC in the fan press.
Ellison and Frank Miller are friends, and Ellison sarcastically ripped on Miller's tittilating hint of lesbianism and prostitution surrounding Catwoman in BATMAN:YEAR ONE, that caused Miller to run up on stage and try to take the microphone from Ellison to respond, and Ellison wouldn't let him, and playfully kept the microphone at arm's length while Miller struggled for it.
The audience was doubled over with laughter watching this.

I had an advance registration and wore a nametag, and many of the writers and artists, who I'd never seen, were recognizable to me because of their nametags. And I was similarly recognizable to them.
I initially thought my wearing a nametag was a stupid idea, I mean, who the hell am I?
But it turned out to be a real blessing.

Some others I met at the 1987 San Diego Con were:

Sergio Aragones ( the guy is HUGE ! Well over six feet tall, I told him how much I like his MAD magazine and GROO work. He was very pleasant to speak with) ,
Joe Rubinstein (one of the best inkers of the late 70's/early 80's, not at all how I pictured him, he was a big bodybuilder type, with short dark hair and glasses. Also very friendly, but I would have guessed he was a cop, rather than a comic book artist),
John Muth (he also later appeared a few years later at a booksigning where I met him again, at Tropic Comics in Fort Lauderdale),
Berni Wrightson (who I also saw later, in December 1995 at a Tropic Comics booksigning, where he wasn't nearly as mobbed, and it was much easier to talk to him),
Chris Miller (who drew several portfolios for Pacific/Schanes&Schanes in the early 80's, and also did several backup stories for Eclipse, in SABRE, if I recall. Very friendly guy),
Michael Thibideaux (also very friendly, he'd been an inker on Kirby's CAPTAIN VICTORY and SILVER STAR, and had just begun publishing a VIKING HEROES series, which was somewhat similar to "the Warriors Three" from THOR. Fun stuff, and he was an absolute pleasure to chat with. ),
Peter Sanderson (Who was a jerk to me. He was one of the first pro's I saw at the convention. I saw his nametag, and said "Hey, Peter Sanderson..." and I started walking over to talk to him, having read many of his letters and articles. And real snotty, he snarls at me and mocks me going "Yeahhh, yeahhh, it's Peter Sanderson... " and walked away with whoever was walking beside him. I have absolutely no idea why he'd react as he did. What an asshole ! I've never given a second look to anything he's done since. ),
Kurt Goldzung (Marketing Director for First Comics, who I knew for years as a comic store owner in Hollywood, Florida, from 1979-1985, before he closed his store to work for First Comics. ),
Rick Oliver (Editorial Director for First Comics, who recognized me from my letters. Again, very friendly, and we talked a long time. I loved what First was publishing at that time, and for four years prior, and lavished unbridled praise on him for the work First was producing. He let on some behind the scenes, of the inner workings of First, and upcoming projects at that time.),
Karen Berger (who also recognized me from my letters to WONDER WOMAN, SWAMP THING, and other books she edited.
And in addition to being very personable, holy geez, what a beautiful woman !!
She showed me a bound folder of xeroxes for the BATMAN:SON OF THE DEMON graphic novel that was released soon after.),
Julius Schwartz (Incredibly friendly and approachable, he reminded me of my own grandfather. Despite his being one of the grandmasters of comics, I had absolutely no competition to speak with him),
Peter Gillis (who actually saw my nametag and approached me before I saw him, having recognized my name from my letters to his books, and spoke to me a long time. He gave me a lot of behind the scenes about SHATTER, that he was working on at the time. ),
Mark Evanier (he was inundated with fans, so we spoke very briefly. ),

Robert Silverberg, George Clayton Johnson, Claremont, and Harlan Ellison, who sat at a table discussion about censorship. A provocative discussion.
The playful bickering between Ellison and Silverberg was priceless.
Ellison was very "free enterprise/anything goes" about editorial control, and Silverberg argued for more editorial responsibility and restraint.
Silverberg brought up a series called "Rapeman" that he said is published in Japan, a storyline that focuses around a thug that anyone can hire to rape and humiliate any woman the person who hires him has a grudge with, and Silverberg said that the series has no redeeming cultural value, that it's just cruel and vicariously sadistic trash, saying that now they wanted to publish this series in the United States, and asked Ellison if they should be allowed to do this. Ellison was stuttering and flabergasted, absolutely tongue-tied, which invoked laughter and wild applause from the audience, that a guy as eloquent as Ellison could be so tongue-tied by such an argument.
At one point during the panel discussion, Byron Preiss, who was sitting one row in front of me, stood up to make a comment about editorial responsibility, from his own publishing experience. I had no clue it was Preiss, until he stood up with a question and announced himself.
Preiss' own projects, including THE ILLUSTRATED HARLAN ELLISON, published in 1978, which includes a breathtaking version of Ellison's short story "Repent, Harlequin, said the Ticktockman..." illustrated by Jim Steranko that, along with other material in the anthology book, is a wonderful contribution to the field of comic book art.
As are many other Byron Preiss books from the late 70's, such as Steranko's CHANDLER illustrated book, THE STARS MY DESTINATION adaptation by Howard Chaykin, WEIRD HEROES anthology, and FICTION ILLUSTRATED series.
Preiss was dressed very professionally in a navy blue suit--so unlike the rest of us !--- and was an impressive individual, even among the likes of Ellison and Silverberg.

R.A. Jones, AMAZING HEROES columnist and sometimes comics scripter. I loved his later 1989 four-issue SINBAD miniseries, illustrated by M.C. Wyman, and a second 1990 oneshot western called PISTOLERO, also illustrated by Wyman.
I complimented him profusely for his "Royal Review" of Kirby's best stories that he did in AMAZING HEROES 100 --Jones' contribution to a book-length tribute to Jack Kirby-- selecting his perceived best from the span of Kirby's entire career.


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Accompanying R.A. Jones was Tony Isabella. I let on that some of my favorite stories he's written were some issues of WHAT IF?, for Marvel.
They were just two guys I struck up a conversation with, and it was evening, so we weren't wearing nametags, and about 15 minutes into the conversation, I introduced myself and told them my name. And they told me theirs. I said "Holy crap, I know you guys ! I've read your stuff !"

When I first went in the front entrance the first day at the San Diego Con, there was a guy who looked just like Frank Miller, who was wearing an "I'M NOT FRANK MILLER" t-shirt. After seeing Frank Miller later in the show, I think it actually WAS Frank Miller, wearing the t-shirt so he wouldn't get mobbed.

I first saw Harlan Ellison in one of the dealer rooms, looking for back issues. I turned around, and holy shit, there's Harlan Ellison standing right next to me !!
He turned to the dealer I'd just been talking to, and said he was trying to complete his back issue run of CAPTAIN MARVEL JR. issues.
I couldn't believe that this famous author, who for years I'd admired, and for years struggled to collect all his books, who I'd seen interviewed on television like a Hollywood celebrity (which he is) was suddenly so accessible, standing right there next to me.
I also couldn't believe he was a fanboy, just like me, going through bins looking for back issues. I didn't talk to Ellison at that point, I was too awed and speechless. I had another opportunity later.
Many, actually.
I kept unwittingly strolling into places where he was.

I was just amazed thoughout the San Diego Con, that every time I turned around, there was another god of the industry, whose work I've admired for years, that I could just walk up to, and thank for the many hours of great storytelling they provided me, and openly discuss their work, often able to chat at length with them.

Even four days at San Diego Con is not enough. No matter how many creators you talk to, there are dozens of others you wish you had time to talk with.
I've been to many conventions, but I never saw anything like this one. Usually, at most conventions, there are between 5 and 20 creators, but at this show there were hundreds. Virtually everyone in the field.

But there were two main events of the Convention:
First was Harlan Ellison's one-man-show monologue presentation.
And the other was an appreciation of Jack Kirby, with many panels discussing issues related to Jack and his art.

Another panel discussion I sat in on was a Marvel panel sitting in front of a barely-civil audience that cried out for the return of Kirby's artwork to the artist.
This was the 25th anniversary of Marvel (1961-1986), and despite Marvel's hyping the hell out of the event over the past year, Kirby was still not given any credit anywhere for his massive contribution to Marvel's creation.


There were ads that ran during Marvel's 25th anniversary in many Eclipse comics from that year (1986-1987), with a photo of Jack Kirby, and the caption:
"Marvel's 25th Anniversary: WHAT ABOUT JACK ?" Paid for by the friends of Jack Kirby.

And needless to say, during the 1987 San Diego Con panel discussions, the panel of Marvel editors were feeling the heat of barely restrained fanboy rage. You could definitely feel the widespread hostility toward Marvel, for its poor treatment of Marvel's greatest contributor. Second only in contribution to Stan Lee, but even THAT's a point that can be argued, whether Kirby or Lee can be most credited with Marvel's success.

It was a watershed year for giving Kirby his due.




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( This image is TALES TO ASTONISH 23, a pre-Marvel cover by Kirby from September 1961, two months before FANTASTIC FOUR # 1. It demonstrates that many of the conventions of Silver Age Marvel fight scenes by Kirby, terrorizing locals of New York, smashing through buildings, and crowds of people screaming in the streets, were conventions of Kirby's in his pre-Marvel monster stories, from 1958-1963, long before it became the "house style" for Marvel, in the peak Marvel period from 1963-1970 )

Wow! You've met a Lot of Great talent!!

That's great.


I failed to mention that there was a new DC
artist at the same Comic Con I went to in
Spring '83 in Philly that actually asked to
see my sketch book. He was encouraging
and made a few suggestions, too.

I liked him. He was very nice. I forget his
name. I hope he has had a long and
distinguished career as a Comic book
artist.

Monster Magnet was a cool group. I like them.

Thanks for posting those lyrics.

Thanks for posting that, Nowhereman.

It's nice to see Jack Kirby get some mention outside of comics.

I was surprised, when Kirby died, TIME magazine summarized Kirby's work in about 40 words or less on their "Milestones" page.
That seemed a remarkably short tribute to one who is arguably the primary shaper and influence on what is a uniquely American art form.

As G-Man partly said, he is what Elvis and Picasso were to their chosen fields. The undisputed king.

The time is getting close for the 10th anniversary of Kirby's death, so I thought I'd post the obituary I saved, of where I first heard the news:



This article is infuriatingly brief, and at several points, which I partly corrected, innaccurate. Kirby's real name was mis-spelled.
And although I left it in, it's debatable whether Kirby created Spider Man, or just simply did a new cover that was used (the famous one by Kirby from AMAZING FANTASY 15), because Ditko's was rejected.


Kirby claims (in his COMICS JOURNAL interview) that he created Spiderman, and then the concept was developed by Lee and Ditko. But others have disputed this.

This article also comes far short of describing the full breadth of Kirby's influence over more than five decades of comics history, and ongoing.

Beyond Captain America, Kirby (with Simon) also went to DC in 1942-1943 and co-created the Newsboy Legion, Manhunter, Boy Commandos, and a new Sandman series. All popular regular features, in STAR SPANGLED COMICS, ADVENTURE COMICS, and BOY COMMANDOS.

In the late 1940's and early 1950's, Simon and Kirby created the first Western and romance comics.
Simon and Kirby also created their own publishing company, publishing such titles as BOYS RANCH, FIGHTING AMERICAN, STRANGE WORLD OF YOUR DREAMS, JUSTICE TRAPS THE GUILTY, FOXHOLE, BULLSEYE and BLACK MAGIC.

In every genre of comics, Simon and Kirby were leaders, and their style was widely imitated, partly causing Kirby to re-invent his style, after parting with Simon (who left the comic book field to pursue an art career in the advertising field, during a comic industry slump in 1955, largely brought on by creation of the Comics Code, where creative jobs in the comic industry largely evaporated).
And Kirby's late 1950's/1960's style is now likewise widely imitated, as his earlier style was.

In his quest to stay fully employed, Kirby ventured back to DC in 1955, and created CHALLENGERS OF THE UNKNOWN, the first Silver Age superhero group (first appearing in SHOWCASE 6, Feb 1957), and instantly made a huge impact on this new comics era. One can easily see parallels between CHALLENGERS and Lee/Kirby's later 1961 team book, the FF.
Kirby also did a lot of monster and science fiction stories for DC, appearing in HOUSE OF MYSTERY, MY GREATEST ADVENTURE, TALES OF THE UNEXPECTED, and other titles.

Kirby's SKYMASTERS syndicated newspaper strip (similar to CHALLENGERS) was the source of a legal clash with DC editor Jack Schiff, and resulted in a mutually hostile departure by Kirby from DC.

Kirby then took work at Atlas/Marvel from 1958-forward, putting virtually all his creative energy into war, western, romance, and monster stories for Marvel, in titles such as BATTLE, LOVE ROMANCES, TWO GUN KID, RAWHIDE KID, and most importantly STRANGE TALES, JOURNEY INTO MYSTERY, TALES OF SUSPENSE and TALES TO ASTONISH, among others.
From these latter titles would evolve Marvel's superheroes, and the monsters and villians their heroes would fight.

And in between Marvel assignments in the late 1950's, Kirby also managed to squeeze in additional work and leave his impact on other publishers, doing work for Archie, Charleton and Harvey, creating DOUBLE LIFE OF PRIVATE STRONG, ADVENTURES OF THE FLY, RACE FOR THE MOON, BLAST OFF, and other work. But Kirby obviously found his greatest success at Marvel.

Some key milestones from Kirby's most prolific creative period:

FANTASTIC FOUR 1 (November 1961), intro/origin, the FF.
TALES TO ASTONISH 27 (Jan 1962), first Ant-man story (one-shot).
HULK 1 (May 1962), origin/first appearance of Hulk.
AMAZING FANTASY 15 (August 1962), first appearance Spiderman, classic Kirby cover.
JOURNEY INTO MYSTERY 83 (Aug 1962), origin/first appearance Thor.
TALES TO ASTONISH 35 (Sept 1962), Ant-man series begins.
TALES OF SUSPENSE 39 (March 1963), origin/first appearance Iron Man, Kirby/Don Heck art.
SGT FURY AND HIS HOWLING COMMANDOS 1 (May 1963)
AVENGERS 1 (Sept 1963)
X-MEN 1 (Sept 1963)
JOURNEY INTO MYSTERY 97 (Oct 1963), "Tales of Asgard" series begins
AVENGERS 4 (March 1964), golden age Captain America revived.
TALES TO ASTONISH 59 (November 1964), Captain America series begins again.
STRANGE TALES 135 (August 1965) Nick Fury:Agent of SHIELD series begins.
FANTASTIC FOUR 44 (Nov 1965) intro the Inhumans, Sinnott inks begin.
FANTASTIC FOUR 48 (March 1966) intro Silver Surfer and Galactus.
THOR 179 (Aug 1970) last Kirby issue
FANTASTIC FOUR 102 (Sept 1970) last Kirby issue, Kirby leaves Marvel.



Unsatisfied with the way many of the Marvel characters he created were being developed by Lee and others, and feeling a lack of credit for even the stories he was able to create himself, Kirby left Marvel in 1970.
(Stan Lee was taking credit for much of Kirby's story plotting work, and creations. The Silver Surfer, for example, was a character Stan Lee saw for the first time when Kirby handed him the pencils for FANTASTIC FOUR 48, it was not something Lee had scripted, and yet Silver Surfer is widely believed to be a Lee creation, while Lee developed the character with John Buscema in a much different direction than Kirby had envisioned.)

Kirby left to work for DC in 1970, where he was not only able to draw, but also to write and edit the work he created. Kirby began with JIMMY OLSEN 133 (in October 1970), soon followed by FOREVER PEOPLE, NEW GODS, and MISTER MIRACLE. An innovative set of new books, the Fourth World series, with an ambitious concept, modern mythology, symbolism, and social commentary, that was intended to be more than an ongoing episodic series, and instead intended to have a limited run that came to a clear and full conclusion.

But others at DC said Kirby's books were not selling, and so FOREVER PEOPLE and NEW GODS were cancelled in 1972, and MISTER MIRACLE was cancelled also in 1974. This was a huge blow for Kirby, his most personal signature work cancelled out from under him.
Based on this, Kirby left DC as soon as his contract ended in late 1975, and returned to Marvel.

But not before producing another massive collection of new characters and series, in THE DEMON, KAMANDI, WEIRD MYSTERY TALES, FORBIDDEN TALES OF DARK MANSION, DAYS OF THE MOB, SPIRIT WORLD, O.M.A.C., SANDMAN, OUR FIGHTING FORCES, JUSTICE INC., FIRST ISSUE SPECIAL, KOBRA, and others.

And then Kirby returned to Marvel from 1976-1978, and created another flood of new characters, in THE ETERNALS, CAPTAIN AMERICA, 2001:A SPACE ODYSSEY, MACHINE MAN, BLACK PANTHER, and DEVIL DINOSAUR. And though not appreciated by Marvel at the time, these stories generated new distinctly Kirby approaches to characters that were loved by many readers, and have since been revived and imitated.

Kirby's final great contribution to the comics field was creation of CAPTAIN VICTORY in late 1981, launching the first creator-owned mainstream comic book, and also launching the first title by a new independent publisher, Pacific Comics, which also for the first time in comic books, gave royalties to the creator of the series, and pressured Marvel and DC to do likewise for their creators, which in a short period of time they did.
DESTROYER DUCK, a benefit book Kirby later also did for Pacific Comics in 1982, to assist writer Steve Gerber in his legal struggle against Marvel for the rights to Howard the Duck, was likewise yet another milestone for the comics field.

The point of saying all this --and even this lengthy summary doesn't fully account for all Kirby's achievement and influence !-- is to give some idea how much more than his obituary indicates, just how much influence Jack Kirby has had, and continues to have, on the comic book field.

In 1986, I read an article (by Doug Moench in AMAZING HEROES 100)that speculated upwards of 80% of comics creators then employed working on characters and visual storytelling techniques that Kirby created.


Looking at just a few examples, the work of George Perez, Jose Ladronn, series like SAVAGE DRAGON, SUPREME, and 1963, continuations of the NEW GODS and other Fourth World series in various forms, Darkseid as a major villain in the DC universe, and the standard characters and props of virtually every Marvel comic produced over the last 43 years...

Kirby's impact on the field endures.

One other interesting anecdote about Kirby's death in 1994.

I didn't read this, but was told it by a comic shop owner, John Chruscinski, of Tropic Comics in Fort Lauderdale.

Kirby's death coincided with a big earthquake in Los Angeles, that preceded Kirby's death by a few days.

When Kirby was having pains in his chest, he went to a hospital to have it checked out, and he seemed to be okay. But the hospital would normally have done more tests, and because they were inundated with patients from the earthquake, they sent him home, for a follow-up in a few days. Kirby apparently collapsed in his yard and died a day or two later.

I don't know how accurate that is. But John has a lot of professional friends in the comic industry, and attends many conventions, so I presume he heard this from someone who knows the Kirby family well.

Dillin also died of a heart attack, and I think he was pretty young. He died rather suddenly and unexpectedly in 1980, I think JLA 183 was his last issue, and George Perez began pencilling the book immediately after, concluding the JLA/New Gods crossover story Dillin had begun.

Dillin, to my knowledge, got his start as part of the new talent Neal Adams helped into the field in 1970-1971. Some of his earliest assignments were a short story in HOUSE OF SECRETS 82 (Nov/1969) and SUPERMAN 249 (the origin of Terra-Man, March 1972), both inked by Neal Adams, which I'm sure helped him get published.

I see Dillin's work as similar to Irv Novick's (although Novick had been in comics for at least two decades prior to Dillin), and I love Novick's BATMAN and DETECTIVE stories, Written mostly by O'Neil and Robbins, and mostly inked by Dick Giordano.

Aside from JLA, I remember Dillin fondly for his work on WORLD's FINEST during the 1970's.




Kirby's cleanest and most realistic art was during the 1964-1970 period. Especially 1965-1966, on JOURNEY/THOR 116-140, and FF 41-60.


But even in the periods before and after, I think Kirby is a masterful storyteller. His visual narrative is very clear, and although less detailed than some artists, he knows how to tell a story with clarity, better than some artists who may be technically better and more detailed.
Kirby's influence stems from many other artists adapting and using the storytelling conventions Kirby created.

I certainly have great respect for many other artists in comics who preceded him or were his contemporaries in the 1940's and 1950's, such as Hal Foster, Alex Raymond, Will Eisner, Bob Kane, Joe Shuster, Jerry Siegel, Lou Fine, Mac Raboy, Jack Cole, Matt Baker, L.B. Cole, Frank Frazetta, Wallace Wood, Al Williamson, Steve Ditko, Joe Kubert and Carmine Infantino.
All giants in the field.

And if I were to pick another grandmaster of the field other than Kirby to devote a topic to, for their influence as well as their work, it could easily be Carmine Infantino, Neal Adams, Will Eisner, or Joe Kubert.

Or from the more current era, Jim Steranko, Michael Kaluta, Barry Windsor-Smith, Berni Wrightson, Richard Corben, Jim Starlin, Paul Gulacy, Arthur Suydam, Charles Vess, Tim Conrad, Scott Hampton, John Muth, Craig Russell, Michael Golden, Marshall Rogers, Paul Smith, John Bolton, Walt Simonson, Mike Grell, Frank Brunner, George Perez, Adam Hughes, Frank Cho, Stuart Immomen, Mike McKone, Carlos Pacheco, Jose Ladronn, Mike Mignola and many others.
Although all the names after Corben I listed are, despite having produced great work, not really influential on other artists like those I listed before Corben.



But regardless, I greatly enjoy their work and their various levels of influence on the field, and it's certainly no slap in their faces that I'm praising Kirby here.

But I do think Kirby deserves credit for his massive contribution, in terms of characters he created, influence of his art style, and just the sheer volume of his output, and tenacity in a field that often screwed him. He worked hard, produced many memorable stories, and certainly earned the love and loyalty of his fans, and fellow professionals.

I'm very grateful for the many hours of great reading his work has given me. And continues to give me.

--------------------


"This Man, This Wonder Boy..."

From 1989, this cover, one of many fun tributes to Kirby, in characters and series by
other creators:
KIRBY, KING OF THE SERIALS !



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I also love "Father Kirby" in the funeral scene of JUSTICE LEAGUE 40 (July 1990),
by J.M. DeMatteis and Kevin Maguire.



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From the opening splash page of LEGION OF SUPERHEROES 294 (December 1982), by Paul Levitz, Keith Giffen and Larry Mahlstedt :

"Dedicated to Jack Kirby, with respect and thanks."



Beyond this statement, the entire story itself is a visible tribute to Jack Kirby, particularly Giffen's art style at the time. (see also his Dr. Fate backup strip in FLASH 306-313, several scattered issues he did of DC COMICS PRESENTS, and in OMEGA MEN 1-5).
This issue (LSH 294) concluded the "Great Darkness Saga" which is a particularly satisfying attempt to bring Kirby's original NEW GODS saga to a close.
And the entire Levitz/Giffen run of this series (LSH 285-306) is one of my all-time favorite comic series. It captures a similar feel to the combined humor, adventure, eye-popping art, and a huge cast of characters previously in Kirby's JIMMY OLSEN run (issues 133-139, 141-148).

Giffen's style changed dramatically after issue 306. But his run continued until issue 313, and then LEGION issues 1-5 of the new series (3rd series, 1984). Although these are a bit darker and more serious, and the art is not as Kirby influenced.

Also good at roughly the same time was the X-MEN/NEW TEEN TITANS one-shot by Chris Claremont, Walt Simonson and Terry Austin. Which also came very close to the characters and visual style of Kirby's original NEW GODS series.
I consider Walt Simonson the closest successor to Kirby's hard-impacting visual style. And yet Simonson is not an imitation of Kirby, as so many other artists are. Simonson captures the flavor of Kirby, while maintaining a style all his own. And is also one of the nicest guys in comics you could hope to meet.

Both the Darkess Saga and the X-MEN/TITANS crossover came out in the late Summer of 1982.

From SWAMP THING 27, by Alan Moore, Steve Bissette and John Tottleben ( August 1984), concluding a three-part story that guest starred The Demon in all three issues:


"This story is dedicated with awe and affection to JACK KIRBY"





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Walt Simonson's appreciation and tribute to Kirby is also clear in much of his work, particularly in Simonson's THOR run ( issues 337-380 ).

As this comparison demonstrates:

THOR 126 (March 1966) art by Kirby/Colletta:


...and THOR 338 (December 1983) by Simonson.


Among many other covers and panels, that are in clear homage to Kirby's run on JOURNEY INTO MYSTERY/THOR.

http://large.126.gif
http://large.338.gif


And the first cover of Simonson's run really got things off to a riproaring start:




http://large.338.gif

John Byrne is largely the one who started the "taking Marvel series back to their roots" movement in the early 1980's.

Byrne began working on FANTASTIC FOUR as penciller in 1979-1980 (issues 209-218, 220-221).
But his real contribution began with issue 232, where he began his run as writer/penciller/inker, and he took the series back to the Lee/Kirby spirit, and the quaint little characterizations of the first 102 issues of the series.

Here's the cover of FF # 1 (November 1961)...



...paired with Byrne's tribute to it.
I loved what, to my knowledge, Byrne began: tribute covers.
Like this one, from FF 264 (in 1984), paying homage to the earliest Lee/Kirby and Lee/Ditko runs of Marvel titles, taking them back to their roots, and fully appreciating those roots.

http://fullsize.1.GIF
http://fullsize.264.GIF


And again, this cover Byrne did for a special issue of WHAT IF, where the FF are still heroes, even without their powers. A story that melded concepts of the FF with the story concepts of their predecessor, CHALLENGERS OF THE UNKNOWN ( which Kirby created in 1957-1958):


http://fullsize.36.GIF

and this last image, from FF 271, a tribute to the Lee/Kirby pre-Marvel monster stories in JOURNEY INTO MYSTERY, STRANGE TALES, TALES OF SUSPENSE, TALES TO ASTONISH, STRANGE WORLDS, WORLD OF FANTASY and other titles featuring the pre-Marvel 1958-1963 science fiction/monster stories.
And the early years of FANTASTIC FOUR, HULK, SPIDERMAN, THOR, Ant-man, Dr Strange and others largely began as similar monster stories, and evolved from those roots.



http://fullsize.271.GIF

I loved this story, that continued for two additional issues, in FF 271-273. A great time travel story to an alternate future on a parallel earth, in search of Reed Richards' long-lost father.

Around the same time, Roger Stern began working his magic in AMAZING SPIDERMAN (issues 224-250), and PETER PARKER (issues 49-58) where Stern taps into Spiderman's Lee/Ditko roots, with many panels mimmicking a Ditko look.
Stern also worked a similar Lee/Ditko retro-look on DOCTOR STRANGE (issues 46, 48-73).
And Byrne did some really nice Ditko-esque wraparound covers on a three-issue Lee/Ditko reprint, in DOCTOR STRANGE CLASSICS, in 1983. (These reprint issues also have some nice pin-up pages, including the first Marvel work by then-unknown Arthur Adams).

And finally, toward the end of Byrne's FF run, here's Byrne's FF 291 cover:



Which bears more than a passing resemblance to the cover of ACTION COMICS # 1.
A clear precursor to the work he would do immediately after leaving the FF series.

http://fullsize.291.GIF
http://fullsize.1.GIF


Byrne's run ended with issue 293, from which he left to do MAN OF STEEL, SUPERMAN, ACTION COMICS, and other Superman work for DC, from 1985-1988.

( There's a partial checklist of Byrne's work, in another topic I started:

• "John Byrne: The good years, the bad years, and what the heck went wrong?"
  HERE )

But I think for most of us who were reading at the time, Byrne's run remains arguably the best run on FF in its 40 years, outside of the initial Lee/Kirby run.

His appreciation for Kirby's work is obvious, in these images, as well as his other work on the FF, and other Marvel and DC characters.

--------------------


"This Man, This Wonder Boy..."

Dave -

I'm glad this topic is not dead. I kept in my list
of Favorite Topics here, hoping it would come
back to life eventually.

Jack Kirby is my favorite comic book artist.
After him comes Curt Swan, John Buscema,
John Romita. I am an artist myself and my favorite art
comes from the impressionists and the realists,
such as David, Monet, Van Gogh, Latrec, Titian
Caravagio, Rembrandt, DaVinci, Ruebens, and others.

Jack - In my mind..Is in the after life right now,
discussing Art with these greats..learning from and teaching, too.

He gave us many good years of excellent art, and
wonderful memories of enjoying that art.

That is the hallmark of any great artist.

Didja see what Mark Waid did in FF today?

No..what DID Mark Waid do
in the Fantastic Four today???

I don't know the issue won't be out for a while.

It came out today. Don't say anything without a "SPOILER" note as I haven't read it yet...

Just read FF #511.

Wow. Just...wow.

Upon reading parts 1 & 2 of the storyline, I was thinking "There's no way Waid can do anything with this other than make it imaginary or a dream or the psyche of some villain. I'm gonna walk away from this storyline having enjoyed it, but not nearly as much as I could. The ending can't help but be at least a little disappointing..."

There are moments that I do truly enjoy being wrong. Sentimental? Yup. Sappy? I'd say so.

But a perfect ending? Oh yeah. I'm gonna hafta admit it: I walked away from the book very pleased. No disappointment here. 'Matter of fact, it pushed me to pick up either the Essential or Masterwork editions of FF.

Good stuff...

Okay, I won't spoil it, but if you are a Jack Kirby fan, you'll appreciate the homage that Mark Waid pays Jack in here. He treats Jack like a GOD in this issue. It's a must read.

( From DAREDEVIL 233, August 1986, by Frank Miller and David Mazzuchelli, accompanying the story credits on page 1: )



"This issue respectfully dedicated to Jack Kirby"





The issue guest-stars Captain America, and the character is drawn in a very Kirby-esque 1964-1965-era Captain America style.

~

In listing all these dedications to Kirby, you can quickly see that they're dedicated by pretty much ALL of the major talents working in the comics field in the 1980's. All making clear their tribute, and love, for Kirby's work.

And no doubt, there are many other similar dedications I've missed.

Although as I've said, a vast percentage of ongoing Marvel and DC characters and series over the last 60 years are in themselves a tribute to Kirby's work.

~

Beardguy57, I like your vision of Kirby in the afterlife interacting with French impressionists and Rennaissance artists.
I don't know how much Kirby was into high art, but it's clear that he loved to draw, first in animation for Max Fleischer in the 1930's, and some newspaper strip work, before moving into a long career in comics. And Kirby considered himself very fortunate to spend a lifetime doing what he loved.
And who can ask for more than that?

~

Here's a link to some humorous anecdotes of Kirby, by some creators who knew Jack Kirby well, including Jim Steranko, and Scott Shaw.

http://www.twomorrows.com/kirby/articles/10storys.html

I especially enjoyed this recollection:





--------------------


"This Man, This Wonder Boy..."

Here's another great tribute to Kirby's early Marvel / pre-Marvel monster stories and FF run.



http://fullsize.347.GIF
http://fullsize.348.GIF
http://fullsize.349.GIF



FF 347-349.

Story by Walt Simonson, art by Arthur Adams and Gracine Tanaka, and inks by Art Thibert

These three issues are tremendous fun, with a holy host of monsters who hadn't seen the light of day in about 30 years, until their cameo appearances in this three-part story.

The story centers on the Mole Man and his Monster Island, with the creature from FF # 1(Nov 1961), along with cameo appearances of other monsters from these pre-Marvel stories:

• "Van Doom, The Man Who Created a Creature" in TALES TO ASTONISH 17(March 1961),
• "What was X, the Thing That Lived?" from TALES TO ASTONISH 20 (June 1961),
  and
• "Titan" from TALES OF SUSPENSE 28 (April 1962),

as well as several others I can't name offhand.

Also great was inclusion of the Skrulls, who took on the role of pre-Marvel brand bug-eyed alien invaders.
In a funny scene, instead of the bug-eyed Skrulls terrifying local Earth people, the Skrulls themselves have the crap scared out of them by the monsters on Monster Island. Some of the facial expressions of the Skrulls are priceless.

Simonson's inclusion of a recently-gray-again Hulk worked well in the early-Marvel/pre-Marvel feel of the story too, since Hulk was gray in his earliest 1962 appearances. Although Simonson isn't the one who made the change back to gray (it was Peter David and Todd McFarlane who turned Hulk gray again in INCREDIBLE HULK issues 330-344, if I recall, and Simonson just continued the gray Hulk for his appearances in FF)

Around the same time, Marvel released a collected trade titled MONSTER MASTERWORKS, that reprinted 18 of the pre-Marvel monster stories from the 1958-1963 pre-Marvel era. "Van Doom", "X, the Thing That Lived" and "Titan" are all reprinted in this volume, which came out within a few months of the Simonson/Adams/Thibert FF story, in 1990.

FF 347-349 were collected with nicer printing in THE NEW FANTASTIC FOUR: MONSTERS UNLEASHED trade paperback, in 1992.

And reprinted again in the recent X-MEN LEGENDS, VOL. 3: ARTHUR ADAMS trade paperback, collecting these FF issues along with all the X-Men annuals Arthur Adams did.

Highly recommended.

Simonson also did a number of FF issues where he did both story and pencils ( FF issues 337-341, 343-346, 350), that I think rank with Byrne's FF run, as the best FF since the Lee/Kirby run. These and Art Adams's story in 347-349 were collected again in the FANTASTIC FOUR VISIONARIES: SIMONSON trade collection.

Which complements Simonson's other outstanding tribute to Kirby's run in THOR (in issues 337-380).

--------------------


"This Man, This Wonder Boy..."

Excellent job with the Kirby info, Dave. Y'know, as a kid back in the 70's I really didn't appreciate his work (I was more of an Adams/Dillin/Swan/Aparo guy), but going into my teens I started to warm up to the King.

One thing about Dillin, though... he actually had a long and sizable career before his JLA days, illustrating the adventures of the Blackhawks from their Quality days up into their DC run. According to Amazing World of DC Comics #11, he actually got his start in Wing Comics for Williams in 1951.

Thanks for the praise Casselmm.

And for the correction about Dick Dillin as well. I'd initially thought Irv Novick entered comics in the late 60's as well, and later learned he's been doing comics since the 1940's.
Live and learn.

I'll look up that article you list, from AMAZING WORLD OF DC COMICS #11.

~


Another Kirby collaborator I've wanted to mention (whose reputation is as god-like in the comics industry as Kirby's own) is Steve Ditko.

I love the work they collaborated on together, in the 1958-1963 issues of JOURNEY INTO MYSTERY, STRANGE TALES, TALES TO ASTONISH, TALES OF SUSPENSE, and scattered other covers and stories, including FF # 13 (introducing the Watcher and the Blue Area of the moon, that Byrne later re-drew from the Kirby/Ditko FF issue, in X-MEN 137)

Here's the main page for an outstanding Ditko website, the best I've seen for any comic book artist:

http://www.ditko.comics.org/

From the above site, here's an extremely rare photo of Steve Ditko.
I'd never seen a photo of Ditko, until the internet made one available. Ditko is extremely reclusive, and doesn't make himself available for fan press interviews.




And here's the section I appreciate the most:
An extraordinarily detailed checklist of Ditko's work.

You can look up stuff 3 different ways in this checklist:
1) alphabetically,
2) chronologically,
or
3) by specific publisher.

An amazing amount of work and user-friendliness went into this checklist. (A list like this should exist for Kirby ! )

http://www.ditko.comics.org/ditko/check/ditkoch.html





And finally, here's one of my favorite Kirby pencils /Ditko inks collaborations, the cover to STRANGE TALES # 80 (January 1961):





http://fullsize.80.JPG



And of course, the most famous Kirby/Ditko cover collaboration:


( fullsize image at: )
http://fullsize.15.GIF



---------------------


"This Man, This Wonder Boy..."

Kirby is solely responsible for making me love comics.
I was about 6 at the time I read Marvel Treasury #11..the Fantastic Four. "This Man, This Monster" made me realize the power comics had....even at that young age. I didn't fully understand the story, but I did get the redemption and sacrifice angles, and that a hero comes from the unlikeliest of places.

Nowhereman, check out Kirby's 1970's Black Panther run. If you don't like that you may never like Kirby.

I enjoyed those issues too, Pig Iron. My favorite Jack Kirby Black Panther stories, though, are his first two appearances in FANTASTIC FOUR 52 and 53, back in 1966.


( larger images of these two covers)
http://fullsize.52.GIF
http://fullsize.53.GIF

And if you like those late 1970's BLACK PANTHER issues, you'd definitely enjoy what Jose Ladronn did in CABLE 48-67, that have a very strong 70's Kirby flavor to the art.
I especially enjoyed issue 54, which features the Black Panther.


( larger full-size image of this cover: )
http://fullsize.54.GIF



~


One of my favorite Kirby collaborations occurred in JIMMY OLSEN, the first series Kirby did for DC ( issues 133-139, 141-148) from 1970-1972, immediately after leaving Marvel.

[image]http://www.milehighcomics.com/cgi-bin/backissue.cgi?action=fullsize&issue=45526284144%20138[/image]




The covers on Jimmy Olsen offer a rare one-time collaboration between Jack Kirby and Neal Adams !



(link to clearer full-size image:
http://fullsize.138.GIF )

Kirby pencils, and Neal Adams inks, on this (issue 138)
and these other covers:





(links to larger/clearer images of these covers: )
http://fullsize.137.GIF
http://fullsize.141.GIF
http://fullsize.142.GIF
http://fullsize.144.GIF




These other covers are Neal Adams pencils and inks, without Kirby:




(larger/clearer images of these covers: )
http://fullsize.134.GIF
http://fullsize.135.GIF
http://fullsize.136.GIF
http://fullsize.148.GIF



These others are Kirby pencils with Mike Royer inks:




( larger/clearer images of these covers: )

http://fullsize.143.GIF
http://fullsize.146.GIF


And Kirby pencils, Murphy Anderson inks:




( larger/clearer image of cover: )
http://fullsize.145.GIF




And Kirby pencils/Vince Colletta inks, with Al Plastino inks on the heads of Jimmy Olsen and Superman:


( larger/clearer image of this cover:
http://fullsize.133.GIF )





And Kirby Pencils/ Vince Colletta inks, with Murphy Anderson heads of Jimmy Olsen and Superman
(which was also the interior art formula for most of Kirby's run on the series)...



( larger/clearer image of cover:
http://fullsize.139.GIF )





And finally, Neal Adams cover pencils/Murphy Anderson inks:



( larger/clearer image of this cover:
http://fullsize.147.GIF )



On the interior stories, Murphy Anderson( issues 135-139, 141-145, and 148 ) and Al Plastino (issues 133-134) were recruited to ink the heads of Superman and Jimmy Olsen, to "correct" Kirby's rendition of Superman characters to conform with the Swan/Anderson Superman style in the other Superman titles of the period. Kirby found this annoying and insulting to him as an artist, but I actually like it. Because of it, you get to see a lot of variety on Kirby's pencils on this series. I own a page of original art from issue 148 (page 11).

These covers are an artistic feast by themselves. But I love the interior stories even more. This run, for me, captures everything I enjoy about comics, and Kirby's work in particular: A great mix of adventure, humor, a huge cast of heroes, and Kirby keeps the reader floored with an endless stream of new worlds and visual wonders.

[ **the medium size images were slowing down the server, and didn't show you the detail of these covers anyway, so I deleted the medium-size images and replaced them mostly with thumbnails, with links below to full-size cover images, that you can click on to see the detail, for those who want to view them. ]

For those who share my love for Kirby's JIMMY OLSEN run, I highly recommend a few more recent books, that almost read like "lost episodes" of Kirby's run.

First, LEGENDS OF THE DC UNIVERSE 14 (March 1999), by Mark Evanier and Steve Rude:


(larger/clearer cover image: )
http://fullsize.14.GIF

Evanier and Rude also did a MR MIRACLE SPECIAL back around 1989-1990. Both these stories are very true to the 70's Kirby style.


And LEGENDS OF THE DC UNIVERSE 22 and 23 (Nov and Dec 1999), by Lofficier and Ladronn:



http://fullsize.22.GIF
http://fullsize.23.GIF

Which teams up Superman with scientist Dabney Donovan (mentioned but not seen in JIMMY OLSEN 142-143), and the two journey together to the planet Transilvane. Again, visuals that mesh very well with Kirby's art on the JIMMY OLSEN series.



---------------------


"This Man, This Wonder Boy..."

Jack Kirby is sad because no one is singing his praises
anymore.....

Never cared much for him.

Well, it's a good thing you're here, then, Beardguy, to pick up the slack !


Another series that wonderfully picks up and expands on Kirby's Fourth World series is FOREVER PEOPLE 1-6 (1988) written by J.M. DeMatteis, and illustrated by Paris Cullens and Karl Kesel.




( larger cover images HERE )


I'd especially recommend issue 5, and if you like that, then pick up the rest of the series.

Extremely well written, it captures well the themes of a shadow war being conducted on Earth between good and evil, for the possession of humanity.
The one side (Apokalips) limiting mankind's human potential, whispering notions of fear, anger and petty jealousy to humans, spreading doubts that drive individuals from reaching for greatness, and drive people apart with fear, resentment and fanaticism.
The other side (New Genesis) whispering inspiration, encouragement and love to humans, that presses individuals toward achieving their own potential and happiness, and sharing their happiness with others.

Like Kirby's original series, FOREVER PEOPLE 1-6 captures well a parallel pseudo-Biblical clash between good and evil, of spiritual warfare between two opposing sides, for the spiritual possession of mankind.

There are some minor elements I don't like about the series.
Contrary to developments in the 1988 miniseries, I like the idea of the Forever People as immortal gods, who are eternal symbols of each new generation, full of new ideas and hope for the future.
And I didn't like the way DeMatteis in this new series locks the Forever People into the 60's generation, and ages them, which in my eyes makes them largely cease to be an eternal image of each new generation.
Although the one generation, as DeMatties develops it, can still be a metaphor for each new generation, even though specifically representing only one generation (the 60's generation).

On the plus-side, DeMatteis' linking the Forever People to one generation allows exploration of the Forever People's (and by metaphor, the 60's generation's) descent (during the period from the end of the first series in 1972 till the beginning of this series in 1988) into middle-aged cynicism, disillusionment and complacency, and sends the Forever People on a rejuvinating rediscovery of the optimism of their youth, and a greater appreciation for the blessings in their lives.

Paris Cullins, without swiping from Kirby, does a wonderful job in his art of capturing the visual style of Kirby, with many Kirby-style three-panel and four-panel pages and splash pages, squared fingertips and faces, crackling energy and other Kirby-esque visual elements.

As I said in a letter to Marc DeMatteis at the time, it is an extremely provocative and well-thought-out expansion of Kirby's Fourth World series.

Kirby's Fourth World is rich in symbolic and literary elements, that lay the groundwork for vast expansion. Which FOREVER PEOPLE 1-6 beautifully explores.

I now have ALL six Marvel Masterworks Fantastic Four books. It's really facinating to see how the stories and artwork progress from issue one to issue sixty....wow!

The characters grow as individuals, too.

And Kirby's art goes from very good to Amazing!!

I feel Jack did his BEST work on the FF from about
issue 42 to issue 100...his work matured into the style
he's best loved for.....those amazing two page negative
zone spreads.... fantastic fight scenes.. and the tender
moments between Reed and Sue....

First Inhumans storyline..Galactus... The Negative
Zone....all in the space of about Ten issues!!!

That is simply awesome!!!

Dave The Wonder Boy:

I want to thank you for all the time and effort you've put
into this topic. All the links you posted, the comic book covers, etc, are just fantastic. ( Pun Intended. )

I just read where John Buscema died a couple years ago. I didn't know that. Just look him up on the Net.
He was a great artist! He was reluctant to do comics but as he said in an interview, it paid the bills...and he was right up there with Jack Kirby and Curt Swan, being my number three favorite comic book artist.

He died of stomach cancer at age 74.

The link below tells you more :

http://home.ca.inter.net/owenandsusan/bio.htm

He took over the artistic reigns after Jack left the FF with
his final issue being # 102. He had a great sense of humor, and was good at making deadlines. He was a dependable, great artist and a pretty cool guy, too.

He drew them, and the Avengers and many other comic
titles. He is suurvived by his wife, three children and several grandchildren.

I hope he, Jack Kirby and Curt Swan are together and talking about the good old days at Marvel in the afterlife, and are enjoying themselves. They sure earned with all
the work they did and how they gave us all something to cherish.

Goodbye, John. You will be missed.

Many thanks, Beardguy.

Sometimes it takes a LOT of edits to get those images right !

You share my love for the 60's and 70's material.



I agree on John Buscema (and Swan, Kane and many others). I was aware of Buscema's death because a tribute was posted on the old DC boards when he died. I posted a link to the tribute in my "What's the attraction of Silver Age books?" topic. ( Long gone now. )

Gil Kane, Dan DeCarlo, Kurt Schaffenberger, and Chuck Jones all died around the same time, and had similar tributes on the DC boards.




My favorite Buscema work, though, is his 20-year run on CONAN THE BARBARIAN, and even more so his work in SAVAGE SWORD OF CONAN. The Robert E. Howard adaptations especially, in issues 1-35.
I think the series had a dry period in issues 40-60, and then the magic was back from 60-100, plus a lot of great work by other artists in addition to Buscema.
The series changed gears around 150, and I mostly lost interest after that.

But Buscema was a huge deal in the late 60's/early 70's, on the first SILVER SURFER series(1968-1970), and AVENGERS(1969-1971).
And after Kirby left Marvel in 1970, Buscema took over THOR and FF for a few years.

The best interview I saw of Buscema was in the 1979 S.Q productions book, THE ART OF JOHN BUSCEMA. Which also had a beautiful poster-worthy montage of all the characters Buscema has drawn.

Buscema also did a TARZAN series for Marvel that was interesting from 1977-1979, if I recall. Buscema's work is very Hal Foster-influenced, and in that I find him very well suited to any adventure type stories he's done.

Info and photos of John Buscema:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Buscema


I actually read Buscema's FANTASTIC FOUR before I read Kirby's FF. The first Buscema issue I saw was FF 128, very much in the Kirby mode, with very detailed art, even for Buscema.
FF 128 also has a great 4-page insert centerfold of "friends and villains of the FF", printed on glossy stock.




I discovered reprints of the Lee/Kirby FF in MARVEL'S GREATEST COMICS within a month or two of reading FF 128, beginning with MARVEL'S GREATEST COMICS 38 (reprinting "This Man, This Monster", from FF 51. What a great place to start !)

I've put off posting to this topic for a while, Beardguy, I just wanted to have something to say before I posted here again.
I have to thank you for prodding my interest in the Marvel Masterworks FF reprints.

Since I last posted here, I picked up Volume 1 (reprinting FF 1-10, Nov 1961 to Jan 1963) and volume 6 (reprinting FF 51-61, June 1966 to Mar 1967).
The progress in Kirby's art (from FF 10 to FF 51) in less than four years is just amazing. And the collected hardcover glossy offset-printed format arguably allows greater appreciation of them than when they were originally printed.
I'm waiting for the other FF volumes (2, 3, 4, and 5) to arrive in the mail. I highly recommend e-bay. I saved a fortune !

And I've seen ads that volume 7 (reprinting FF 61-70) is due to be released in the next 30 days.
So it's great that Kirby's best-known work (FF) is only three volumes from being completely collected in hardcover.
And most of his other best-known work as well:
BOYS RANCH, FIGHTING AMERICAN, HULK, THOR, AVENGERS, X-MEN, CAPTAIN AMERICA (Golden Age, and TALES OF SUSPENSE).

And in trade form: JIMMY OLSEN, FOREVER PEOPLE, NEW GODS, and MISTER MIRACLE. Would that these were in comparable hardcovers, like the prior ones I listed.
But... it's just a matter of time.

A trade of Kirby's mid-70's CAPTAIN AMERICA "Mad Bomb" stories will be out in the next month or so as well.

Dave The Wonder Boy:

I want to thank you for all the time and effort you've put
into this topic. All the links you posted, the comic book covers, etc, are
just fantastic. ( Pun Intended. )

I just read where John Buscema died a couple years ago. I didn't know that.
Just look him up on the Net.
He was a great artist! He was reluctant to do comics but as he said in an
interview, it paid the bills...and he was right up there with Jack Kirby and
Curt Swan, being my number three favorite comic book artist.

He died of stomach cancer at age 74.

The link below tells you more :

http://home.ca.inter.net/owenandsusan/bio.htm

He took over the artistic reigns after Jack left the FF with
his final issue being # 102. He had a great sense of humor, and was good at
making deadlines. He was a dependable, great artist and a pretty cool guy,
too.

He drew them, and the Avengers and many other comic
titles. He is suurvived by his wife, three children and several
grandchildren.

I hope he, Jack Kirby and Curt Swan are together and talking about the good
old days at Marvel in the afterlife, and are enjoying themselves. They sure
earned with all
the work they did and how they gave us all something to cherish.

Goodbye, John. You will be missed.

My latest find is a Marvel/DC amalgam book, INCREDIBLE HULK VS. SUPERMAN (story by Roger Stern, art by Steve Rude and Al Milgrom, cover-dated July 1999, and 48 beautiful pages)




The story begins with Superman and Lois (now married) in the present, and then goes into a flashback to 1963 or so, to an encounter Superman had with the Hulk, Banner, Rick Jones, General Ross, etc.
The flashback is to a time where Superman and Lois were rivals and not married, which is an interesting contrast between the two (present and early-60's-past) eras.

The art and story are very reminiscent of the earliest Kirby stories in HULK 1-6, and in early issues of AVENGERS.

Stern also does a version of Superman that is more true to the late-1950's Superman TV series than to the Superman comic. And Lois, Perry White, Clark and Superman are very charmingly their TV selves, rather than their comic book selves.
It's a very pleasant twist, that any Silver-Age fan should enjoy.

The story also has some very sexy panels of Betty Ross and Lois Lane.

It's amazing sometimes, how you can go through back-issue bins and run across untapped treasures that you never knew existed when they were originally released !

Dave, that HULK VS SUPERMAN comic looks really interesting!

Oh, it was great, Beardguy, highly recommended.

Another I love is SECRET CITY SAGA # 0, from 1993, story by Roy Thomas, art by Walt Simonson.
( Click on image to enlarge )

One of the nicest covers in comics history.

Simonson is among the most worthy successors to Kirby, I think he does a great job of capturing the power of Kirby's art, in several great tributes (MANHUNTER, THOR, FANTASTIC FOUR, the 1982 Marvel/DC X-MEN/TEEN TITANS special, ORION, etc.)
But Simonson does tribute to Kirby while producing something completely original. As opposed to just swiping from Kirby.

The other related books that stemmed out from SECRET CITY SAGA # 0 (SECRET CITY SAGA 1-4, BOMBAST 1, CAPTAIN GLORY 1, NIGHT GLIDER 1, and SATAN'S SIX 1-4) were a great tribute to Kirby and his previously unused story concepts, in a nice limited series, that is as much a tribute to Kirby as it is to early Marvel in general, with story and art by early-Marvel creators, such as Roy Thomas, Steve Ditko, Dick Ayers, Don Heck, John Severin, Mike Friedrich and Gerry Conway.




It was more or less an early Marvel staff re-union !

Which must have been very fun and nostalgic for the creators who participated in it.

Dave, I like Walt Simonson, too! Roy Thomas has long been one of my favorite writers..Love his 60's work on The Avengers..and his 80's work on All Star Sqaudron.

I enjoy much of Roy Thomas' work too.

But oddly, to my knowledge, Kirby never collaborated with Roy Thomas.

What I love most from Roy Thomas is his CONAN, SAVAGE SWORD OF CONAN, and SAVAGE TALES work.
And also his later CONAN THE ADVENTURER with artist Rafael Kayanan.

And "Bran Mak Morn: Worms of the Earth" adaptation with Tim Conrad, in SAVAGE SWORD 16 and 17. (reprinted a few years ago as a graphic novel)

And "Almuric", in EPIC ILLUSTRATED 2-5, again illustrated by Tim Conrad, in 1980-1981 (also reprinted in a collected volume, by Dark Horse)

I talked a lot about Thomas' contribution, and showed covers for many of these stories in another topic:

• CONAN and other Robert E. Howard material in comics
  http://www.rkmbs.com/ubbthreads.php/ubb/showflat/Number/184435/fpart/1

I also enjoyed ARAK by Roy Thomas in the early 1980's, a deliberately Conan-esque creation by Thomas, when he left Marvel and went to DC in 1981.

And as you say, his ALL-STAR SQUADRON, INFINITY INC., and YOUNG ALL-STARS runs for DC in the 1980's, which resurrected the JSA to its modern prominence.

If I were to recommend just one issue of Thomas' ALL-STAR SQUADRON, it would be ALL STAR SQUADRON ANNUAL # 1 (1982)

Which links the origins of three Golden-Age characters, Wildcat, The Atom, and the Guardian.
It shows Thomas' vast knowledge of the characters he writes, on any series, and the way he can expand on that knowledge to explore ways to bind them together and tweak them for interesting little unexplored twists.



Although Kirby never collaborated with Thomas, to my knowledge, Kirby did produce a rather un-flattering portrayal of Thomas in MISTER MIRACLE # 6 (1972)


Where Kirby created Funky Flashman, a fast-talking con-artist prone to Stan Lee -esque alliteration and backslapping. And Flashman's groveling ass-kissing lapdog assistant HouseRoy, which are widely recognized as Kirby's expressed opinion on the subject of Stan Lee and Roy Thomas.

Hmmm..Jack cared NOT for Stan and Roy!

I looked up that Hulk vs Superman book on Ebay...
only ONE person has it to sell, and his feedback is too poor for me to feel good about buying it from him..so I put it on a Pre Order Request on Amazon.Com.

http://www.pigdogproductions.com/kirby1.jpg



Two images, which I couldn't separate:

On top, pages 2 and 3 of NEW GODS 5 (1972). Showing one of the race of giants trapped for eternity in the ruins of their machines, in their vain attempts to penetrate the mystery of the source.


And below, the wraparound cover for the KIRBY UNLEASHED portfolio, advertised in all the DC books in early/mid 1972.

Some of the most beautiful pages of Kirby's career.


The site this is sourced from:

https://www.pigdogproductions.com/index2.html

JACK KIRBY is da King!! He and CURT SWAN were and still are my favorite two comic artists, with George Perez, Stuart Immomen, John Buscema, John Romita Jr., Jerry Ordway, and a few others whose names elude me all being tied for a close third place!

They both drew in a very realistic style that I loved.
I admit Jack started getting carried away drawing HUGE
biceps on his male characters, but that was part of the magic because we wanted our heroes to be muscular and powerful looking.

I emulated those two men's styles' when I was a kid, drawing superheroes on those big sheets of paper that your parents gave you for coloring. I used to write and draw my own comics from the time I was 10 till in my early thirties, and I plan on getting back into it again.

These two men were the BEST in comics during the '60's, and their work holds up quite well into the 21 st century!

I like Kirby because he had his unique style, very suitable for the fun, action-packed stories he did. Unfourtunately, his art doesn't speak to me in the emotional level Steve Ditko's art does, but I digress.

I have an old translated SC with two early FF comics, Kamandi in B/W and also translated, and the new Black Panther TPB. I plan to collect his 70's Captain America and Jimmy Olsen TPB's, maybe the B/W Fourth World TPB's too.

Dave The Wonder Boy : I FINALLY recall the name of the young up and coming artist I met back in '83 at the same comic con where I met Chris Clairemont. His name was Paris Cullens! I remember he had some samples of his work there..it was GREAT!! He was and still is a great comic artist!

He was VERY nice. He was as nice to me as Clairemont had been rude. What a contrast!

Wonder what he's doing now?

I actually looked up Paris Cullins in a keyword search on two different occasions since I saw your post, Beardguy.
And I've been able to find nothing he's done in the last decade or so. He just slipped into oblivion.

I remember Cullins best for the FOREVER PEOPLE six-issue miniseries I posted about above, superbly written by J.M DeMatteis.
Cullins' other work that I'm familiar with is a lengthy NEW GODS run, in collaboration with Mark Evanier.

And prior to FOREVER PEOPLE and NEW GODS, Cullins did a mid 80's run of BLUE BEETLE. Issue two has an artist profile of Cullins, from his formative years, other professional work, breaking into comics, and then becoming regular artist on BLUE BEETLE, his first regular series.




Since I last posted to this topic, there's been a flood of Kirby reprint books. Here are just a few:

• CAPTAIN AMERICA: MADBOMB, reprinting Kirby's work from CAPTAIN AMERICA 193-200
  
  CAPTAIN AMERICA: BICENTENNIAL BATTLES, reprinting the lengthy MARVEL TREASURY story from 1976 that has Captain America traveling through time and fighting in all the historical U.S. wars. Best of all was the first chapter, 10 pages of Jack Kirby pencils inked by Barry Windsor-Smith !
  
  JIMMY OLSEN by Kirby, Vol 1, reprinting issues 133-141, which is actually my favorite of Kirby's Fourth World series, the most fun, with a huge cast of characters, and a WOW-factor, constantly flooring the reader with new visuals and concepts.
  
  JIMMY OLSEN by Kirby, Vol 2, reprinting issues 142-148. I especially liked the "Transilvane" story in issues 142-143. All these covers from both volumes can be viewed at the top of this topic page.
  
  BLACK PANTHER, volume 1, reprinting issues 1-7 of Kirby's run on the series from 1977-1978
  
  KAMANDI 1-10 (DC Archive hardcover, released Oct 2005) Reprinting what is my all-time favorite of Kirby's work. Hopefully its success will result in three more volumes being produced in quick succession, allowing all 40 issues to be available in Hardcover format.
  
  FANTASTIC FOUR. Kirby did issues 1-102, the first 6 annuals, and one last fill-in, issue 108, all of which is available now in one format or another.
• The FF Marvel Masterworks, collecting 10 issues per volume, reprinting up through issue 93, has reprinted almost the entire Kirby run in full color offset printing.
• An FF omnibus special hardcover edition (out just two or three months ago) reprints all the Kirby issues in a bulky two-volume hardcover set.
• And the ESSENTIAL FANTASTIC FOUR volumes offer a format to read these stories cheaply in black&white. I got the first volume, reprinting FF 1-20 and Annual 1, before I just had to have them in color hardcover volumes.
  
  THOR (Marvel Masterworks hardcovers) now reprint from issues 83-130, in four volumes so far. Although I'd rather wait until more are printed, so I can enjoy the complete run, or close to it, in this format. (Kirby did scattered issues from 83-96, and then a complete run from 97-177, and 179. THOR and FF are his longest running series)
  
  Greg Theakston, of Pure Imagination publishing, has been endeavoring to publish ALL of Kirby's work, beginning with Kirby's earliest in 1939, up through the Golden Age, late 40's and 50's era. Reprinting all of Kirby's illustration career, spanning more than 40,000 pages of comic art, spread over more than 50 years, a very ambitious project indeed.
  
  And most recent that I'm aware of, just out two weeks ago, the TALES TO ASTONISH 1-10 hardcover, first of a proposed line of hardcovers reprinting Kirby's pre-Marvel (1958-1963) monster stories, that slowly evolved into the Marvel Universe, weaving through those early years in JOURNEY INTO MYSTERY, STRANGE TALES, TALES OF SUSPENSE, and TALES TO ASTONISH, as well as shorter runs in WORLD OF FANTASY, AMAZING ADVENTURES, AMAZING ADULT FANTASY, and one issue of AMAZING FANTASY.

The one I'm most excited about is the KAMANDI 1-10 hardcover.

Here's a map of Kamandi's world from issue 32, enhanced with some fun internet features:







--------------------

Wikipedia finally added a page for Paris Cullins:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paris_Cullins

Apparently he left comics for work in advertising, animation and video games.

One of the holy grails of my Jack Kirby collection is the KIRBY UNLEASHED book that was released in 1971. When I was finally able to obtain a copy, it cost me $50.00, back in 1996.

Now, Two Morrows just re-released it in a new edition about a year ago, adding to it a fair amount of new material !

• http://twomorrows.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=265
  
  

The Two Morrows publisher-site's description is more specific about the contents, and additional new material.

Even though I already have the original, I'd like the newer version for the additional material, and to have a lower-priced copy, so I don't beat up my original.

I posted the wraparound cover in an earlier post. Which ranks as one of the single best pages of Kirby's career.

I just about ejected in my shorts when I discovered this site:

• ARCHIVE OF ONLINE KIRBY pre-Marvel MONSTER STORIES (expired link)

New links:
https://marswillsendnomore.wordpress.com/2012/12/19/jack-kirbys-monsters-monsteroso/
and
https://marswillsendnomore.wordpress.com/tag/jack-kirby/

Complete scans of every "lost" Kirby monster story --every last page of every unreprinted story online-- from 1959-1963, and you can read each story online !

Most of these stories were reprinted in the 60's an 70's, and this list is all the ones that were never reprinted.

Almost all of these stories were inked by Dick Ayers (who is my favorite Kirby inker from this era. Except for a few stories inked by Chris Rule (mostly from 1959) and by Wood, Kleinman, Reinman and others.




So enjoy.

You'd normally have to pay at least 50 bucks for an archive of stories like this.

That looks like a great website Dave! I'll save some of those comics when I get time!

It's great stuff, guys.

And about 200 pages of it !


My favorite Kirby stuff righht now is the pre-Marvel stuff, from 1958-1963.
Including Kirby's monster stories in the first 35 or so issues of TALES OF SUSPENSE( till Iron Man took over) and TALES TO ASTONISH(till Ant-Man took over) , JOURNEY INTO MYSTERY 51-83 (till Thor took over), and STRANGE TALES roughly 50-100 (before the Human Torch, Doctor Strange and Nick Fury took over).

Plus the more short-lived AMAZING ADVENTURES, AMAZING FANTASY, STRANGE WORLDS and WORLD OF FANTASY.


In addition to the monster stories, Kirby did a wide range of other types of stories: war, western and romance, which I have scattered issues of.
In titles like GUNSMOKE WESTERN, RAWHIDE KID, TWO-GUN KID, KID COLT OUTLAW, LOVE ROMANCES, TEEN-AGE ROMANCE, YOUNG ROMANCE, and BATTLE.


These are wonderful inventive stories, with great little twists of characterization, humor, irony and nobility.

I especially love the RAWHIDE KID stories Kirby did in this era. Like the monster stories, most are 5 pages, 7 pages, or 13 pages. And yet they have more plot than many 22-page stories today. And than any number of current 6-issue "story-arcs" for that matter.

I have a few original RAWHIDE KID issues, but most I have reprinted cheaply in the 70's title MIGHTY MARVEL WESTERN.

Ah, for the days of old, when we expected more and got it...

I hope Marvel will re-print Monster and SF comics by Lee, Kirby and Ditko (in colored trades). If not at least an anthology trade.

Wasn't Jack Kirby the one who created and drew CHALLENGERS OF THE UNKNOWN?

He created it. And he drew some of them. However, other writers and artists took over the series.

Thank you, G Man! Although I have not seen a CHALLENGERS issue since the mid sixties or so, I had a feeling....let's see, thier names were :

Ace

Prof

Red

Rocky

unless I am mistaken...I loved those issues! I forget the name of the artist who took over the artistic reigns, though it may have been Bob Brown..

I'm not a fan of the Challengers, but the Kirby art in the "Greatest Stories of the 50's Ever Told" HC is impressive. Way ahead of its time, even among the selection of stories in that book.

This link is relevant..It has Kirby artwork on a Challengers of the Unknown cover:

http://www.toonopedia.com/chalngrs.htm

There's actually a big event in Kirby's life regarding his departure from CHALLENGERS OF THE UNKNOWN.

The Challengers first appeared in SHOWCASE issues:
6 (Feb 1957)
7 (April 1957)
11 (Dec 1957)
12 (Jan 1958)

After which Kirby drew the first 8 issues of CHALLENGERS OF THE UNKNOWN when they spun off into their own series. (May 1958-June 1959)

The reason Kirby left DC at this point is precisely this:

Kirby had been marketing several newspaper strips, to get out of the then-dying comics industry, and into a more lucrative syndicated newspaper strip. Among them Johnny Reb (a Civil War period series) and SKY MASTERS (about a group of space explorers. )
Of the strips Kirby had going, SKY MASTERS was particularly successful, and was growing in popularity.

But editor Jack Schiff at DC, who helped broker initial sale of the SKY MASTERS strip to a syndicate, had wanted a percentage of Kirby's royalties from the strip. When Schiff wasn't cut in, he pursued a lawsuit against Kirby.

I initially thought the lawsuit asserted that the SKY MASTERS strip was too similar to the DC-owned CHALLENGERS characters (that Kirby created !), i.e., that SKY MASTERS was a copyright infringement on the CHALLENGERS characters.

But it may have just been about Schiff wanting a settlement for the percentage he was shorted of.

Schiff won the lawsuit, after which according to alternate versions, Kirby either refused to work for DC from that point, or Schiff fired Kirby and no longer let Kirby get any work at DC.

In any case, Kirby quit working for DC in 1959, and (post-Comics Code, with limited publishers, many publishers recently driven out of business due to the Code) Kirby began working almost exclusively for Marvel.

Until Infantino welcomed Kirby back to DC in 1970.




Many have noted the similarity of CHALLENGERS to the later FANTASTIC FOUR series.

An interesting tribute to this is John Byrne's WHAT IF story (issue 36): "What if the FF had not gained their powers?"


Which essentially turns the FF into the Challengers of the Unknown.




Kirby did not work again for DC until the moment Jack Schiff retired from DC. At which point, in 1970, Kirby met with publisher Infantino and signed a contract with DC, and soon after was publishing his Fourth World series ( FOREVER PEOPLE, NEW GODS, MISTER MIRACLE and JIMMY OLSEN).

I read that FF What If issue when it first came out, and I noted the similarity to the Challengers back then.. also, the FF's original purple outfits, which they wore the very first issue - were the same purple outfits the Challengers started off with.

I first saw the Challengers by Kirby in this SUPER DC GIANT # 25, reprinting CHALLENGERS issues 4, 6, and 8, with a new Kirby cover (circa 1971) and a text article on Kirby.


I find it interesting to see how Kirby drew CHALLENGERS 1-8 in 1958-1959, vs. how he drew them on this new cover.

That cover appears to have been inked by Vince Colletta,
who also inked Kirby's work on Thor and The Fantastic Four, back around 1965 - 66.

Yeah Beardguy, that cover is inked by Colletta.

As you say, Colletta inked almost the entire THOR run by Kirby, From about issue 110-177, and 179. Except for a few fill-in inks by Bill Everett and a few others. And it was on THOR that I grew to appreciate Colletta, especially on Kirby.



Colletta also inked almost all of Kirby's earliest 70's DC work, including Kirby's JIMMY OLSEN run (issues 133-139, 141-145, and 148, to be precise). I own a page of original art from issue 148.
In addition, Colletta also inked FOREVER PEOPLE 1-5, NEW GODS 1-4, and MISTER MIRACLE 1-4, before Mike Royer was hired to replace him as Kirby's DC inker.
And SPIRIT WORLD # 1.
And DAYS OF THE MOB # 1.




The machinery border between the images on this SUPER DC GIANT CHALLENGERS cover is similar to the panel layout in the opening pages of MISTER MIRACLE # 2 (introducing Overlord as a character).

And also similar to a giant TV screen shown in FANTASTIC FOUR 62, a double-page spread on pages 2 and 3. This is one I enlarged and had framed, as part of the home-comic-art-museum that is my home.




Colletta inked only a few issues of FANTASTIC FOUR, but they were lavishly detailed, in issues 40-43, and FF ANNUAL 3 (the wedding of Reed and Sue Richards). At his peak, Colletta is one of the best.




Although at some point in the mid-60's Colletta began cutting corners, erasing backgrounds and filling over large areas of detail with black.
Colletta was perhaps the only inker Kirby requested not ink his work because of this. At least temporarily.
But I guess Colletta shaped up, because he not only began inking Kirby at Marvel again after Kirby had him removed, but he even followed as Kirby's inker in 1970-1971 when Kirby moved to DC.



Sinnott began his inking run on Kirby's FF with issue 44, and stayed as the regular FF inker until the end of Kirby's run with issue 102, and one last issue I don't have, issue 108.

Sinnott remained inker on FANTASTIC FOUR long after Kirby left the series in 1970, staying through John Buscema, Rich Buckler, George Perez, Keith Pollard, an early run by John Byrne, and Bill Sienkiewicz, finally departing as FF inker in 1981, when Byrne fully took over FF as writer/penciller/inker with issue 232. One of the longest runs of any inker on a series. He waxed nostalgic to his death about how much he loved inking Kirby's run, and what a thrill it was to open his mailed pages and see Kirby's new pencils each month, and adding his own contribution to Kirby's.

Maybe its me, but the more I read about Kirby it seems the more he comes off as a "perpetual victim," claiming that everyone ripped him off: Jack Schiff, Stan Lee, Carmine Infantino, etc. Every five or so years he'd decide whichever company he worked for was ripping him off, so he'd quit in a huff and go over to the other company.

I used to let it bother me that my "heroes" were less than perfect, G Man...I would not listen to this musician because he had had a drug problem, and would not read that writer because he was highly conservative... but, over the years, I have learned to seperate the person and his life from their body of work. Otherwise, you run the risk of not liking anyone creative or famous because they are flawed.

Joe Sinnott is my favorite inker on Jack's work, with Colletta a close second..now, does anyone here know how to pronounce "Sinnott"?

Is it Sin - not? Sin - no?

Thank you, Wonder Boy, for making this thread fun again!

Well hey, it always was fun, it was just on hiatus for a long while !


I can't say for certain, but I've never heard anyone pronounce Sinnott's name in a way other than < sin- ott >

One of the toughest names in comics is that of Bill Sienkiewicz, which is pronounced <sin- kev- itch >

One I learned recently from an interview of the artist, Mike Mignola revealed the correct pronounciation of his name is < min- yo- la >.
But before and since I read the COMIC BOOK ARTIST interview, everyone I know pronounces it < mig- no- la >.



But back on the subject of Joe Sinnott, he is arguably the best inker ever on Kirby, and that is certainly the opinion of many.

Sinnott started out pretty inauspiciously, inking one lone issue of FF # 5, the story that first introduced Dr Doom, with time travel and pirates. But even after reading this story, I didn't know until later it was Sinnott, and it was pretty indistinguishable from the other early FF issues. It would be four years before Sinnot and Kirby would collaborate again, with much more satisfying results.

After 4 nice issues inked by Colletta (issues 40-43), Sinnott took over permanently as inker of FF.
And Sinnott, beginning with issue 44, and staying as the regular inker through Kirby's last issue (# 102), couldn't have started at a better time. Sinnott made a name for himself overnight when he took over inking FF, bringing Kirby's pencils to a new level of refinement.

And just in time, to be a part of what is arguably the greatest creative expansion of FF.
On Sinnott's watch, we saw introduction of Gorgon, Karnak, Medusa, Black Bolt, the Inhumans,, the hidden Inhumans city of Attilan in the Himalayas, the Silver Surfer, Galactus, "This Man, This Monster", the Black Panther and his jungle nation of Wakanda, a downright apocalyptic re-match with Dr Doom, the Negative Zone, Blastaar, Him (later called Warlock), the Microverse, and a re-match with Galactus every bit as mind-blowing as the first, the Kree, and their Sentry, awakened at his hidden island outpost on Earth. A re-match with Dr Doom in Latveria, witches, the Skrulls and a wild UFO ride, imprisonment by the skrulls in outer space, a clash with the Creature From The Black Lagoon, and several more down-to-earth single issue human dramas.

It was about 60 issues that, with Sinnott's inks, were truly "The World's Greatest Comics Magazine" as the cover proclaimed in the years they were published.

Sinnott stayed on FF as inker through Romita, Buscema, Buckler, Perez, Pollard, Byrne and Sienkiewicz, up until Byrne took over as writer-penciller-inker on FF in 1981 with issue 232.

So Sinnott certainly left his mark on FF, even long after Kirby left.

But for me, and I think most FF readers, Sinnott's inks over Kirby remain his best remembered.



--------------------


"This Man, This Wonder Boy..."

I both agree and disagree with this notion.

I think Kirby did see himself as a victim to some extent.

I don't recall the precise details, but apparently Joe Simon may have been taking more than his financial share of the Simon & Kirby art-team revenues, and at least the perception of that resulted in the quiet dissolution of their partnership in 1955.

Kirby saw himself as a victim in the Jack Schiff thing, and what was no doubt a mutually hostile departure from DC in 1959.

Kirby saw himself as a victim in his 60's period at Marvel, where Stan Lee became rich on Kirby's contribution to developing Marvel's "Universe" of characters, while Kirby not only didn't share in that financial success, but also had characters he created taken away from him and developed in ways he didn't like.
I think this loss of creative control, more than money, was the reason he left and went to DC in 1970. Because at DC, Kirby wrote and edited in addition to pencilling what he created, and thus got full full creative control and credit for the characters he created.

But again, at DC, despite arguably good sales, for reasons that were never logically explained to Kirby, his most treasured series, NEW GODS and FOREVER PEOPLE, were cancelled out from under him.
And the remaining title, MISTER MIRACLE, was forced to change direction away from concluding the Fourth World storyline as well.

So again, Kirby saw himself as a victim, who was jerked around, and he probably would have left DC immediately if he could have in late 1972.
But because he had a contract with DC, he stayed until late 1975, and gave us KAMANDI, THE DEMON, OMAC, SANDMAN, and several other new series.



And at Marvel from 1975-1978, Kirby again felt mistreated and jerked around by his editors.

But to Kirby's credit, I think there is considerable evidence to support Kirby's perception of mistreatment at various publishers.
Many back Kirby's account that in the 60's he was plotting as well as drawing Marvel's titles, and that Lee was taking the credit for what Kirby created.
Steve Ditko left Marvel for virtually the same reasons: a lack of creative control, and a lack of credit for his plotting contribution.




Years after their cancellation in 1972, many have looked at the DC sales figures for FOREVER PEOPLE, NEW GODS and MISTER MIRACLE and said they were good.
I offered my own conspiracy theory in the WTF topic, that the books were cancelled to prevent Kirby from killing off marketable characters that DC owned.





And there are many accounts to back up what Kirby said about his mistreatment at Marvel from 1975-1978.
One particularly scathing was Jim Starlin's account, in a COMIC BOOK ARTIST interview, of how editors would paste up Kirby's art pages on the wall with derisive remarks like: "the dumbest story ever told" and so forth.




And Kirby, when he didn't like the way he was treated, did leave and go somewhere else.

But I think the frustration for him through the 50's, 60's, and 70's was: Where else can you go ?!?
Once you've been fucked over by both Marvel and DC, and the other smaller publishers pay a fraction of what Marvel and DC do, where else can you go, except to leave the industry that you love?
Which is what Kirby finally did in 1978, when he left Marvel to do animation for cartoons.



In some of the cases, I think Kirby had legitimate complaints and limited options.

In other cases, it could have been oversensitivity and getting overly angry about the realities of working in the creative field, and a bit of "he said/she said" rather than actual mistreatment.

And in the cases of leaving Marvel and DC in the 1940's to pursue more lucrative work, and in the case of Jack Schiff who arguably just wanted compensation for brokering sale of the SKY MASTERS series, it could be argued that Kirby fucked over other people !



To some extent, it's in the eye of the beholder.

And like yourself, G-man, whatever happened behind the scenes, it doesn't interfere with my enjoyment of Kirby's work at Marvel, DC or any other publisher.