RKMBs
Posted By: Son of Mxy The Bundy Farm Thing - 2014-04-14 9:57 PM
I just read about it on Facebook. Google search results are divisive (it's that left or right thing again.) What I read is that the feds are seizing the compound because the Bundys are endangering some species of turtles because their cows eat too much grass? Or that the feds want to seize the land in order to build some sort of solar farm on it.

Anybody got any info on this?
Posted By: thedoctor Re: The Bundy Farm Thing - 2014-04-14 11:06 PM
It's the far right's Occupy movement.
Posted By: Lothar of The Hill People Re: The Bundy Farm Thing - 2014-04-15 2:19 AM
Bundy rented the land from the government.

Bundy said he wasn't going to pay any further rent for the land but keep using the land for free.

Now the government wants him to get off their land.


or maybe something else happened.
Posted By: Lothar of The Hill People Re: The Bundy Farm Thing - 2014-04-15 2:21 AM
old man Bundy had a farm.

ei ei oh

with no kids here.

no wife there

a hooker coming over on Saturday night.

ei ei ei oh
Posted By: Matter-eater Man Re: The Bundy Farm Thing - 2014-04-15 2:58 PM
I don't get why Bundy says it's a state's rights issue. Presumably the state would also wouldn't allow free grazing.
Posted By: thedoctor Re: The Bundy Farm Thing - 2014-04-15 7:33 PM
Bundy paid for grazing rights to the state. He says that the land belongs to the state of NV and not the federal government. The fact is that he's wrong, and two judges have ruled against him. The real shit is the fact that the agents enforcing the laws/rulings have been total dicks too. It's a case two wrongs not making a right... or some such shit.
Posted By: thedoctor Re: The Bundy Farm Thing - 2014-04-15 7:36 PM
Plus, there's also the conspiracy theory that the fed is trying to take his land to build a solar power plant.
Posted By: Son of Mxy Re: The Bundy Farm Thing - 2014-04-15 9:11 PM
and that the solar power plant will power alien battleships.
Posted By: Matter-eater Man Re: The Bundy Farm Thing - 2014-04-16 2:57 PM
 Originally Posted By: thedoctor
Bundy paid for grazing rights to the state. He says that the land belongs to the state of NV and not the federal government. The fact is that he's wrong, and two judges have ruled against him. The real shit is the fact that the agents enforcing the laws/rulings have been total dicks too. It's a case two wrongs not making a right... or some such shit.


After a couple of decades of his mooching isn't it time to be "total dicks"?
Posted By: thedoctor Re: The Bundy Farm Thing - 2014-04-16 4:31 PM
So you're okay with them tossing an old women to the ground as long as she's a right winger.
Posted By: Ultimate Jaburg53 Re: The Bundy Farm Thing - 2014-04-16 5:33 PM
 Originally Posted By: thedoctor
So you're okay with them tossing an old women to the ground as long as she's a right winger.



How long has she been sucking at the government's tit?
Posted By: Ultimate Jaburg53 Re: The Bundy Farm Thing - 2014-04-16 5:34 PM
FYI, it's not political I just dislike old women.
Posted By: thedoctor Re: The Bundy Farm Thing - 2014-04-16 6:27 PM
You'll never get over losing that gang war to the Southside Bea Arthurs, will you?
Posted By: Ultimate Jaburg53 Re: The Bundy Farm Thing - 2014-04-16 8:15 PM
I guess they just wanted it more.
Posted By: thedoctor Re: The Bundy Farm Thing - 2014-04-16 11:08 PM
You should have known better than to try and claim turf with the only Cracker Barrel in town.
Posted By: Matter-eater Man Re: The Bundy Farm Thing - 2014-04-17 2:08 AM
 Originally Posted By: thedoctor
So you're okay with them tossing an old women to the ground as long as she's a right winger.


Morality on this doesn't or shouldn't get into "right" or "left" Doc. They're in the wrong and have been for over 2 decades. At some point it was time to stop being nice.
Posted By: Wonder Boy Re: The Bundy Farm Thing - 2014-04-17 5:29 AM
Or alternately, the Bureau of Land Management (BLM) has been abusing its power for 2 decades, and has been using bullying tactics and trumped-up fines and charges for 2 decades, and should back the fuck off.

$1 million in fines for cattle eating grass doesn't sound excessive?

200 agents pointing M-16 rifles ready to fire at a cattle rancher and his family over grazing rights doesn't sound excessive?
AND to fire at his neighbors (who committed no crime) who are standing with him ?
AND at news reporters?

To protect an endangered species of turtle?
Posted By: Wonder Boy Re: The Bundy Farm Thing - 2014-04-17 5:55 AM



Posted By: Matter-eater Man Re: The Bundy Farm Thing - 2014-04-17 5:58 AM
They don't own the land WB. Not sure about the other accusations you make but it seems to me it was the government that left instead of hurting a bunch of armed people that looked ready to fire on the BLM workers.
Posted By: Pariah Re: The Bundy Farm Thing - 2014-04-17 7:42 AM
Wow. The point went right over your head didn't it?

Considering how often you've gone out of your way to argue that land, capital, and legacies are somehow communally amassed commodities that should logically be taxed and controlled by the state--rather than privately developed properties that should be controlled by the individual proprietors--any claim you make about rightful ownership sounds less than convincing.

Not all of the Founding Fathers agreed with the Boston Tea Party, and even went so far as to condemn Revere and Co. for defying the British authority, but that doesn't make defiance against the taxation and fees of out-of-touch leadership any less of an American tradition. Ranchers are getting FUCKED in more ways than one by regulations that are inherently anti-private property. The worst of the offenses committed against them and their families is the death tax: it hits them far harder than anyone else. The particulars of this incident do not strike me as being a far cry from those cases.

In which case, it's simplistic and plain silly to try and compare this to the Occutards who had nary a fucking clue as to why they even bothered flocking to the streets like a bunch of idiots and destroying small businesses in the process.
Posted By: Wonder Boy Re: The Bundy Farm Thing - 2014-04-17 1:50 PM



From a few days prior, on April 10th, the opening 2 minutes do a good job of answering the "why" of Bureau of Land Management descending on the Bundy ranch suddenly after 20 years.
Basically (according to a real estate broker quoted in the opening 2 minutes) because it's valuable land that the federal government, and wealthy supporters of certain political leaders in Nevada, want to leverage the Bundy family off of, and this is a final push to intimidate them into selling. And that these tactics have worked leveraging out many other family-owned ranches in the area, before this family's tenacity drew a spotlight to the consistent BLM tactics that are used against private citizens.

It also explains the level of support by hundreds of the Bundy family's neighbors.

This Tea Party site shows the same scene unedited, where the BLA officials sic dogs crowd to intimidate them, and throw a 50-year-old woman on the ground. Some of their own words and actions are embarrassing rhetoric, chanting and antagonism, but nothing that justifies what the police did.



This last link gives insight into the written policies of "Environmental Protection", and how it is in truth a mask for locking down control of rural areas, and pushing people into urban areas where people are more easily controlled by an authoritarian state, with less ability to hide, and less able to farm and grow their own food:

"This is why they want Clive Bundy's property"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hfbpNpq0YBI





Posted By: Wonder Boy Re: The Bundy Farm Thing - 2014-04-17 1:59 PM
 Originally Posted By: Matter-eater Man
They don't own the land WB. Not sure about the other accusations you make but it seems to me it was the government that left instead of hurting a bunch of armed people that looked ready to fire on the BLM workers.


Yes, I guess that's predictably how you'd see it.

You completely bypass the trumped-up nature of the charges against Bundy, the way ALL of the Bundy family's 52 neighboring ranchers have been leveraged off their property and forced to give up ranching.
And how excessive it is for 200 agents to come on Bundy's ranch with snipers, allegedly because 150 cows ate some state property (possibly federal property) grass, and because of an endangered desert turtle that's numbers are growing so fast that the same federal agency is euthanizing the same turtles used to rationalize aiming snipers at the Bundy family.

But for the grace of God, this is Waco and Randy Weaver all over again. Authoritarian federal agents who harass and intimidate with restraint from rule of law. Only global media exposure is making BLM and their snipers back off.
Posted By: Matter-eater Man Re: The Bundy Farm Thing - 2014-04-17 2:25 PM
I think it's probably past time to start treating Bundy like any other criminal that has broken the law for over 2 decades. It's no small point that he doesn't own nor is he entitled to the land he grazes his cattle on. No amount of talking points gets around that.
Posted By: Wonder Boy Re: The Bundy Farm Thing - 2014-04-17 3:38 PM



What part of "trumped up charges" did you not understand?
Posted By: Wonder Boy Re: The Bundy Farm Thing - 2014-04-17 7:51 PM


WHY THE FEDS CHICKENED OUT ON A NEVADA RANCH

 Quote:
By Kevin McCullough, OneNewsNow.com
April 15, 2014



Let me obliterate a bit of confusion here: the Obama administration attempted to go to war with a rancher in Nevada. Let me amplify a little bit of truth: they tucked tail and have returned home. And let me add a bit of clarity: they had no choice!

As the nation began to become familiar with the plight of the family of Cliven Bundy, many of us harkened back to another standoff – way back in 1993 – in which the federal government attempted to bully its outcome: Waco, Texas and the Branch Davidian massacre.

It is telling that in the Nevada case the feds pulled out so quickly, given all they had indicated they were willing to do to resolve the matter to their satisfaction. They had set up a perimeter around the Bundy's family land, ranch, and home. They had brought in extra artillery, dogs, and snipers. They were beginning the process of stealing more than 300 head of cattle that did not belong to them.

They did so – or so we were told – for the reason of protecting the desert tortoise. But then it was revealed that the Bureau of Land Management had shot far more desert tortoises than the Bundy cattle had even possibly destroyed. We were told they did it because the Bundys had broken federal laws by not paying what amounted to retroactive grazing fees to the federal government. But the governor of the state of Nevada told us that Bundy had paid every ounce of state tax, met the state requirements, and their family had been improving the property more than 100 years previous.

Finally we were allowed to know the connection between a communist Chinese wind/solar power plant and its connection to that senator named Harry Reid. Evidently a plan had been hatched to use the Bundy property for a solar farm and instead of paying the Bundys, someone, somewhere in the administration believed it was easier to just take what they wanted.

That approach is at least consistent with the readily documented abuse of emminent domain where the government for any number of reasons – few of them valid – has taken to taking what doesn't belong to them. Americans then watch as it gets handed over to some multi-national corporation for the "cause" of the "greater good."

There were a few specific reasons why the feds chickened out in the Nevada desert though.

TECHNOLOGY – As the Bundy family members were abused, cameras captured it. Not television network cameras, but dozens of cell phone video devices that gave witness to a Bundy aunt being shoved to the ground, and a Bundy son being tazed. All of this while threatening protestors with dogs, brandished weapons and vehicles was captured, uploaded and made viral to the watching world.

STATES' RIGHTS – As the drama unfolded it became clear that the governor of Nevada, and the sheriff of Clark County knew that Cliven Bundy's family had not only not broken any state law regarding the land, but that they had gone to the nth degree to ensure compliance with Nevada laws on the property. The governor and the sheriff, to their credit, did not favor the feds as a more powerful party in the conflict. Though there must have been pressure from Senator Reid's office, the administration via the Bureau of Land Management, and local officials who were bought and sold like the Clark County commissioner who told those coming to support the Bundys to have "funeral plans in place."

GRASSROOTS RESPONSE – As other incidents have transpired in the past, the amount of time it took honest information to reach the grassroots and thus the response to the action came too slow. In the massacre in Waco, most of the nation had been sold a single narrative from the limited media outlets covering the events. Similarly the events surrounding the abduction of Elian Gonzales from his family in Florida and deportation to Cuba took place in such a response vacuum that by the time Americans knew the real story, the damage was done. With the Bundy ranch, Internet outlets by the dozen had competing information with the limited "official news" being released by the networks, and in most cases the alternative sources had it correct and usually a full day or so ahead of the news cycle. By the time afternoon drive hit, when the network news rooms in New York were preparing their first stories, talk radio audiences had already been dialing their elected officials in Washington demanding action.

The majority of Americans saw through the efforts to spin the story in Nevada. Couple that with the leadership failures that the American people view the administration responsible for, from Benghazi to the Affordable Care Act, all it took was the unedited video of federal agents tazing Bundy's son, followed by his pulling the wires from his chest and continuing to stand his ground for there to be comparisons made to the American revolution.

It's also important to note that merely pulling back from the Bundy property hasn't settled the matter for the American people either.

The feds have stolen 352 head of cattle, and will not confirm or deny if they euthanized some or all of them. Recompense must be made. And to be candid, I wouldn't be a bit surprised to see if a few ambitious law firms don't try to convince the Bundy family of the validity of litigation.

Fortunately for the American people, the feds were not able to ultimately bully a simple rancher, not for a tortoise, a solar power plant, or a dirty senator and his administration.

We owe the Bundy family a great deal of thanks for standing tall.

For if the federal government is allowed to do it with one, then there will be nothing stopping them from doing it again.

Posted By: Son of Mxy Re: The Bundy Farm Thing - 2014-04-18 3:59 AM
what about the cows? don't they have a right to graze in public land? they should at least get that before we turn them into burgers jackets.
Posted By: Matter-eater Man Re: The Bundy Farm Thing - 2014-04-18 3:08 PM
 Quote:
Former sheriff: Women ‘need to be the first ones shot’ by feds in Bundy Ranch standoff
By David Edwards
Tuesday, April 15, 2014 9:51 EDT


A former Arizona sheriff who has taken the side of cattle ranchers in Nevada said this week that he would have allowed his own wife and daughters to be shot as human shields because it would look bad for the federal government on television.

In a statement to Fox News on Monday that was first flagged by Glenn Beck’s The Blaze, former Sheriff Richard Mack talked about his strategy to put women on the front lines if a gunfight broke out between “rogue federal agents” and rancher Cliven Bundy, who reportedly owes the taxpayers more than $1 million for allowing his cattle to graze on government land.

“We were actually strategizing to put all the women up at the front,” he recalled. “If they are going to start shooting, it’s going to be women that are going to be televised all across the world getting shot by these rogue federal officers.”
...

RAW
Posted By: Wonder Boy Re: The Bundy Farm Thing - 2014-04-18 3:49 PM
That is --predictably from you and the Left, M E M-- a partisan liar's attempt to change the subject from the fact that these Arizona ranchers were right, and the state was wrong.

And the key point is: the BLM's federal agents had snipers pointing guns at these ranchers. If the BLM didn't endanger these people in the first place, FOR NO REASON, OVER RIDICULOUS TRUMPED UP MANUFACTURED EXCUSES like turtles (that the BLM are euthanizing themselves because of an overpopulation of turtles) and eating grass, these people would not be at risk.
It is the federal BLM's SNIPERS putting women in danger, >>>>NOT<<<<< the ranchers.

Someone in BLM or higher up should be fired for this over-reach and unnecessary terrorizing of these ranchers.

See my posts above. These tactics have chased away 52 of the ranch-owner neighbors of the Bundy family. They are the only ones who couldn't be intimidated.
Perhaps you'd feel differently if they aimed their guns at YOU.


The media was nowhere to be seen throughout this. Without viral video of these proceedings, these federal agents would have eagerly shot these people and created some story after to cover their crime. As Waco and Ruby Ridge and Elian Gonzales in a pre-internet period make clear.
Posted By: Matter-eater Man Re: The Bundy Farm Thing - 2014-04-19 2:32 AM
The facts are not convenient for you. Bundy doesn't own the federal land he grazes his cattle on. This has been through the courts and Bundy has lost on every occasion.
Posted By: Wonder Boy Re: The Bundy Farm Thing - 2014-04-19 7:12 AM
You are oblivious to the facts, M E M.

Mr. Bundy disputes the trumped-up charges, and has for decades in court, and thinks he has a right to graze on the questionably either state or federal land, which is not used by anyone. His family has been raising cattle and grazing on this land since the late 1800's. The local sheriff even sides with him against the Bureau of Land Management's claims.

And AGAIN: the BLM has used these tactics to drive 52 other neighboring families off their ranches to federally take their land, the Bundy family is the last one left, who won't be intimidated.
Taken for deceitful ulterior reasons made clear in my previous cited articles and Youtube clips.
Posted By: Matter-eater Man Re: The Bundy Farm Thing - 2014-04-19 3:59 PM
Thinking you are entitled to something that isn't yours doesn't make it yours. It's true he's fought this in the courts for decades but he's understandably lost every time.
Posted By: the G-man Re: The Bundy Farm Thing - 2014-04-21 5:47 PM
Posted By: Wonder Boy Re: The Bundy Farm Thing - 2014-04-22 1:02 AM
God does that hammer home the point!


The only people this administration will label terrorists are patriotic Americans who stand for Constitutional rule of law, for border security, and for preservation of U.S. sovereignty.

The only ones Obama is preparing to go to war with.
Posted By: Wonder Boy Re: The Bundy Farm Thing - 2014-04-22 1:14 AM


"There are no rules! Those in power make up the rules. So those out of power are bound to break them."
--Jose Ber Gelbard
Posted By: Matter-eater Man Re: The Bundy Farm Thing - 2014-04-24 12:19 AM
Time to send in the dirty hippies!
 Quote:
Burning Man organizer plans anything-goes ‘Bundyfest’ to mock scofflaw rancher
By Travis Gettys
Tuesday, April 22, 2014 8:29 EDT


Some of the organizers of the annual Burning Man festival are planning an event aimed at mocking the claims of a Nevada rancher who refuses to pay government-mandated fees for using federal lands.

“For years, we paid permitting fees to hold Burning Man on the beautiful Playa in Northern Nevada,” said the event’s organizers on a Facebook page. “But now, Cliven Bundy has shown us a NEW WAY! ABSOLUTE FREEDOM! Bundy has declared the entire area surrounding Bundy Ranch as a TOTALLY RULES-FREE ZONE! ANYTHING GOES! WOO-HOO!!!”

Progressive activist Sean Shealy said Bundyfest, which will be held across the road from Bundy’s ranch in Bunkerville, Nevada, for one month starting on Sept. 5.

That’s just after the conclusion of the Burning Man festival, and Shealy hopes attendees will travel south to see 240 bands perform 24 hours a day near the rancher’s home.

“Some people have asked me, where will we camp, where will we park?” Shealy said. “Anywhere, really. It’s f*cking anarchy.”

The Facebook page for the event promises no permits will be required, full nudity will be permitted, and the atmosphere will be gay-friendly.

However, Shealy warned, no bathroom facilities would be provided.

“You’re free to let it all hang out right there, just like Bundy’s cattle, right there in the Virgin River, if you want to,” Shealy said.

Organizers also plan a “penis erection contest,” where participants will be awarded prizes for the largest phallic structure built in the desert.

Shealy said organizers expect about 50,000 people to show up in the desert near Bundy’s home.

RAW

\:lol\:
Posted By: the G-man Re: The Bundy Farm Thing - 2014-04-24 3:59 AM
Will Harry Reid be calling the burning man organizers domestic terrorists as well?
Posted By: Wonder Boy Re: The Bundy Farm Thing - 2014-04-24 4:16 AM


Yes, M E M, because 200 snipers are proportionate to reign in a guy whose 350 cows ate some grass that no one will miss.



Comrade Obama's own little Tianaman square.

AGAIN: the only ones Obama and the Democrats are willing to label as "terrorists" are the PEACEFUL and patriotic demonstrators who object to Obama's destruction of our Constitutional rights and freedoms.
Would that he were as zealous in capturing ACTUAL Islamic terrorists, that he won't even identify as terrorists, let alone try to capture.
Would that Obama and the Democrats would label Occupy Wall Street people as terrorists, who engage in riots, vandalism, plan bombings, and try to blow up bridges.
Would that Obama and the Democrats had any will to capture and deport the 12 to 20 million estimated illegals in our country. In the last month it was revealed that Obama won't even deport the CRIMINAL aliens! And sued the state of Arizona to prevent them from defending their own borders.

Basically, would that Obama and the Democrats had a drop of patriotism in their treasonous bodies. The same liberal cocksmokers who have mocked the movie Red Dawn as Right-wing fantasy for 30 years are making it for the first time conceivable that it could happen: castrating our military, emboldening our enemies overseas, weakening and laying open our borders, and attempting to disarm our citizens. While these same liberals demonize those who actually try to prevent liberal/"progressive" destruction of our country from within.
Posted By: Wonder Boy Re: The Bundy Farm Thing - 2014-04-24 4:21 AM
(Photo: )
http://static4.businessinsider.com/image/534db531eab8eacf1caab272-1200-924/bundy-ranch.jpg


Oh yes! Precisely the amount of firepower needed to handle a guy who is just grazing some cows.
Posted By: Matter-eater Man Re: The Bundy Farm Thing - 2014-04-24 4:27 AM
 Originally Posted By: Wonder Boy


Yes, M E M, because 200 snipers are proportionate to reign in a guy whose 350 cows ate some grass that no one will miss.

....


Where did you get the 200 snipers number? Are you counting the snipers Bundy had?


 Quote:
Flat on his belly in a sniper position, wearing a baseball cap and a flak jacket, a protester aimed his semi-automatic rifle from the edge of an overpass and waited as a crowd below stood its ground against U.S. federal agents in the Nevada desert. [Reuters, 4/17/14]


So I wonder if Fox/Koch brothers will be calling all the dirty hippies patriots for using federal land without permits? Than again I haven't seen any talk about using women and children as human shields so that might disqualify them.
Posted By: Wonder Boy Re: The Bundy Farm Thing - 2014-04-24 4:31 AM







AGAIN: 200 federal agents, snipers, and attack dogs, tasering unarmed men and grandmothers... for what?


The government can make up any fine it wants and charge people thousands of dollars a day. But saying the guy owed money to the government is absurd, if the fines are completely unjust and fabricated.
And even assuming the fines are legitimate, does ANYTHING justify the kind of firepower aimed at the Bundy family and the friends who stood with them?

Let me answer that for you, M E M.
No.
No, it doesn't. Not even close.
Posted By: Wonder Boy Re: The Bundy Farm Thing - 2014-04-24 4:42 AM

 Originally Posted By: MEM

So I wonder if Fox/Koch brothers will be calling all the dirty
hippies patriots for using federal land without permits? Than again
I haven't seen any talk about using women and children as human
shields so that might disqualify them.



That's a lying dick-in-the-mouth answer, M E M.

What do Fox or the Koch brothers have to do with any of this?
Fox is just reporting what all the other stations are selectively ignoring.
And the Koch brothers have absolutely no role.

Your slanders bypass the issue: The Bundy family have legitimate
complaints, and right to protest.

The 200 federal agents, with snipers, attack dogs, and tasers are
abusing their authority and endangering decent people who are
perfectly within their rights.

You keep pulling this shit about the protestors "using human
shields", but the women and others supporting the Bundy family were
NOT held against their will, they were willing to get shot if the Federal BLM opened fire on their friends.
Far from the cowardice you paint it as, it is, in truth , COURAGE.

As Waco,Texas, and Ruby Ridge both make clear.
Without cel-phone cameras and Youtube (filling the void of a
mainstream 80% liberal media that selectively ignores this story)
the BLM snipers would have opened fire on the Bundy's and their
friends, and manufactured and official explanation for the slaughter later.
Posted By: Matter-eater Man Re: The Bundy Farm Thing - 2014-04-24 4:44 AM
I understand why the federal agents were armed. They had at least one sniper training his gun on the agents. The pic your using is actually one of bundy's militia friends, not a fed agent.
Posted By: Matter-eater Man Re: The Bundy Farm Thing - 2014-04-24 4:55 AM
Btw you just previously posted about the feds having 200 snipers and than posted a pic of one of bundy's guys who actually looks like a sniper in position to fire upon federal agents.


 Originally Posted By: Wonder Boy

...
That's a lying dick-in-the-mouth answer...


Good thing you can type with your mouthful WB.
Posted By: Wonder Boy Re: The Bundy Farm Thing - 2014-04-24 5:08 AM
No, I simply didn't phrase that well initially.
200 agents, of which a number were snipers, and others, with guns, tasers and attack dogs. But still, a threatening army of agents, disproportionate to the minor fines and grazing issues, and/or endangered turtles (which the BLM is killing themselves anyway).
Absolutely >>>>>>NOTHING<<<<<< that justifies that level of Federal/BLM force against the Bundy family, and their neighbors AND SHERIFF standing with them in solidarity.

These ranchers could have been slaughtered by the BLM, and you fault them for taking defensive positions against that kind of firepower?




LAST MAN STANDING.
Rancher: armed feds are surrounding my farm



 Quote:
April 8, 2014 7:34 pm

A two-decades-old battle between a Nevada rancher and the Bureau of Land Management (BLM) has resulted in officials armed with machine guns surrounding the ranch and forcibly removing the owner’s cattle, according to the rancher’s family.

Cliven Bundy, the last rancher in Clark County, Nev., has been fighting a “one-man range war” since 1993, when he decided to take a stand against the agency, refusing to pay fees for the right to graze on a ranch run by his family for centuries.

After years of court battles, the BLM secured a federal court order to have Bundy’s “trespass cattle” forcibly removed with heavy artillery, the family said.

“The battle’s been going on for 20 years,” Bundy told the Washington Free Beacon. “What’s happened the last two weeks, the United States government, the bureaus are getting this army together and they’re going to get their job done and they’re going to prove two things. They’re going to prove they can do it, and they’re gonna prove that they have unlimited power, and that they control the policing power over this public land. That’s what they’re trying to prove.”

Bundy said the government has brought everything but tanks and rocket launchers.




“They’re carrying the same things a soldier would,” he said. “Automatic weapons, sniper rifles, top communication, top surveillance equipment, lots of vehicles. It’s heavy soldier type equipment.”

His wife, Carol Bundy, said that roughly 200 armed agents from the BLM and FBI are stationed around their land, located about 75 miles outside of Las Vegas. Helicopters circle the premises, and the airspace and nearby roads remain blocked....
Posted By: Wonder Boy Re: The Bundy Farm Thing - 2014-04-24 5:12 AM


 Originally Posted By: WB
The government can make up any fine it wants and charge people thousands of dollars a day. But saying the guy owed money to the government is absurd, if the fines are completely unjust and fabricated.
And even assuming the fines are legitimate, does ANYTHING justify the kind of firepower aimed at the Bundy family and the friends who stood with them?
Posted By: Wonder Boy Re: The Bundy Farm Thing - 2014-04-24 5:18 AM
Another point: These federal agents all make around $100,000 a year. How much do you think this standoff for a week or so, deploying about 200 agents and their travel expenses cost?

WAY more than what the Bundy family allegedy owes?

Yeah, nice practical use of BLM and FBI resources, typical of the Obama administration. While they refuse to deport EVEN CRIMINAL illegal aliens, and have already given amnesty to about a million children of illegals, thus creating anchors for their entire extended illegal families, and the lack of border security inviting millions MORE illegals.
Those agents could perhaps be bettered used to defend our borders from illegals, drug traffickers, and terrorists?
Posted By: Matter-eater Man Re: The Bundy Farm Thing - 2014-04-24 5:23 AM
Yes it's clear that the Bundy's were ready to cooperate if only the feds had showed up unarmed.


 Quote:
Flat on his belly in a sniper position, wearing a baseball cap and a flak jacket, a protester aimed his semi-automatic rifle from the edge of an overpass and waited as a crowd below stood its ground against U.S. federal agents in the Nevada desert. [Reuters, 4/17/14]
Posted By: Son of Mxy Re: The Bundy Farm Thing - 2014-04-24 5:43 AM
MEM, he's just using the sniper rifle's scope to get a closer look at things. He left his binoculars at home.
Posted By: MisterJLA Re: The G-man hates his wife thing - 2014-04-24 7:53 AM
 Originally Posted By: Son of Mxy
MEM, he's just using the sniper rifle's scope to get a closer look at things. He left his binoculars at home. Also add a stupid question to change the subject and hijack the thread.


Sincerely,

G-man
Posted By: Wonder Boy Re: The Bundy Farm Thing - 2014-04-24 4:36 PM
 Originally Posted By: Son of Mxy
MEM, he's just using the sniper rifle's scope to get a closer look at things. He left his binoculars at home.



\:lol\:

His rifle clearly doesn't have a scope, but funny nonetheless.

Seriously, the people with guns were taking defensive positions because massive amounts of firepower were pointed AT THEM by BLM and FBI agents. In answer to way-over-the-line intimidation tactics by federal agents, they were intimidating them back, taking defensive positions, assuring that if the BLM and FBI started shooting, that they would be able to put up a fight.

And even so, with 200 federal agents, with helicopters giving them air superiority, the armed protestors supporting the Bundy family were still overwhelmingly outgunned. They just assured it wouldn't be a slaughter like Waco or Ruby Ridge.

And only internet video, exposing the true situation to the world, prevented federal agents from opening fire on the Bundy ranch protestors.
Posted By: Wonder Boy Re: The Bundy Farm Thing - 2014-04-24 6:56 PM

Here's a blog article from April 11th (before the standoff ended and the BLM backed down) that points out how local law enforcement and the Nevada legislature was on the side of Bundy and the protestors.




Sheriff Mack, CSPOA, Oathkeepers, State Legislators & America Stands with Cliven Bundy

 Quote:
I recently received an email from Sheriff Richard Mack updating me on the recent happenings with regard to the Bundy case and Bureau of Land Management (BLM).

The Constitutional Sheriffs and Peace Officers Association (CSPOA) have traveled to Nevada to stand with the Bundy family. Additionally, the Oathkeepers have done the same. An estimated 5,000 militia types from Western states have also made their way to the Bundy property as well.

Sheriff Mack and CSPOA are responding to the storm brewing between Nevada rancher Cliven Bundy and the BLM. They have responded by stating that the all-too-frequent bullying of individual citizens by various militarized Federal agencies have usurped the Constitution and they have vowed that the forces of tyranny can be stopped. In fact, as CSPOA claims, it’s an epidemic that “must be stopped”.

I have learned that Sheriff Mack is leaving early Saturday morning for an emergency trip to Bunkerville, Nevada, along with other members of the CSPOA posse to stand with the Bundy’s and find a peaceful resolution to this conflict (i.e., the feds going home). The name is “Bunkerville”, is both ironic and appropriately named, don’t you think?


STUNNING DEVELOPMENT

bundy ranchThe case involving Cliven Bundy is yet another case of David vs. Goliath in what has become an all-to-familiar scene in which some agency of the Federal government swoops in, flashes their badges and guns and seize control of the private property of an American taxpayer without so much as offering the pretense of the due process of law.

As this case was unfolding, I mentioned that this was a classic Agenda 21 case (e.g. land confiscation, fracking, etc.). However, this case has now taken on a life of its own and has become more important than a beleaguered rancher facing off against the forces of tyranny.

This is now a case of America vs. the tyranny of the federal government and who is going to blink first?

I do not think any of us could have predicted that this case would generate the attention among awakened Americans that it has. Yet, interestingly, the MSM is strangely quiet on this issue involving the Bundy family vs. the BLM.



THE ARIZONA LEGISLATURE STANDS WITH BUNDY

In a case of “I would never have believed this in a million years”, the Arizona State Senate President Andy Biggs and the Arizona House of Representatives Speaker Dave Livingston are both in agreement that Arizona should be involved in supporting CSPOA and Oath Keepers in going to Bunkerville, Nevada. These two leaders of the Arizona Legislature have vowed to support the Cliven Bundy family. This stunning development cannot be overstated, and yet, there is more. Additionally, State Senators Al Melvin, Chester Crandall, and Kelly Ward along with State Representatives Brenda Barton, Bob Thorpe, Kelly Townsend and Warren Peterson are all planning to be at the Bundy ranch by Sunday morning. All of these local government officials are planning to attend the Press Conference Monday afternoon with the CSPOA and Oath Keepers along with the Bundy’s and other sheriffs and public officials from across the country.




THE OATHKEEPERS DECLARE THEIR POSITION

It is my distinct privilege to announce that the Oathkeepers have pledged their full support for Cliven Bundy and are helping to lead the charge in challenging the tyrannical actions of the federal government. The following press release is from the Oathkeepers.


  • “A Delegation of state legislators, led by Washington State Representative Matt Shea, along with a delegation of current serving Sheriffs, led by Sheriff Richard Mack of the Constitutional Sheriffs and Peace Officers Association, and military and police members of Oath Keepers, are converging on the site of a stand-off between federal law enforcement and Nevada Rancher Cliven Bundy, to prevent bloodshed and to stand in defense of hardworking rural Americans who are under assault by a runaway federal government.”
    --LAS VEGAS, NV, April 10, 2014



The expressed support state legislators is monumental and could prove historically significant because what happens over the next 72 hours at this ranch could potentially change the course of American History.




POSSIBLE OUTCOMES

There are several possible outcomes regarding the brewing confrontation which could come to a head this weekend. Here are just a few possible scenarios which could play out in the next few days.



THE BLM BACKS DOWN AND WITHDRAWS ITS OCCUPATION FORCES


This would be the prudent move. The BLM, in order to prevent too many in the public from finding out about their escalating level of tyranny, shy away from the confrontation and quietly withdraw the scene while vowing to return. I do not see this happening.



IT IS RANDY WEAVER AND RUBY RIDGE ALL OVER AGAIN?

The readers may recall that Mrs. Weaver, at Ruby Ridge, was brutally murdered by the FBI for pointing a loaded baby at the FBI for which she was promptly shot in the head while standing in her kitchen. Nobody from the FBI was ever brought to justice for this heinous act. The point being here, is that if some trigger-happy BLM agent opens fire on a Bundy family member. If this happens, what will the local militia do? If they fire back, then all hell could break lose.

In this scenario, there is no doubt that DHS would get to roll out some of their newly acquired 2.2 billion rounds of ammunition to go with their 2700 armored personnel carriers. If further bloodshed were to occur, the fallen civilian victims would become martyrs. We would very likely see riots breaking out all over the country in which buildings would be burned and authorities would be defied. Personally, I do not believe that this incident can go so far as to prompt a revolution on its own. However, this issue carries the distinct possibility of defining the sides for a possible civil war in this country in the future. Again, the fact that prominent state legislators are so clearly opposed to the federal government on this issue will ultimately serve as a dividing point between the two sides if blood is spilled.



WHAT DIRECTION WILL THIS TAKE?

The Bundy fate is spelled out in this map.


In this case, the Obama administration holds all the cards. Many of us in the media feel that Obama would like nothing better than to draw a group of dissidents out in the open and crush them as a sign of absolute subjugation of the American people. Some feel that the globalist forces will avoid confrontation and continue on their steady path of conquering America one Agenda 21 policy at a time.

If I were Obama, I would choose the latter path, because it is the path of least resistance. However, we have learned that Obama is impulsive and therefore, all bets are off.

There is one thing that we can all be sure of, we are indeed watching history in the making as this has become a case of Constitutional supporting Americans vs. the Brown Shirts of the Obama administration.




And does a good job of laying out what the issues were at the Bundy/BLM standoff, and how it could have gone down.

Ultimately, this was a battle won by Bundy and the locals, but the war (Agenda 21) goes on.

Some of the 88 (right now) comments at the end are spot-on. That the government, and its SS paramilitary wing the DHS, now has over 2 billion rounds of ammunition to wage war on the American people, and they are constantly testing what the people are willing to tolerate. And will just wait for a day when the people are not willing to take a stand to unleash their full tyranny.


 Quote:
Cliven Bundy's 'better off as slaves' remark about blacks draws fire


Cliven Bundy

Nevada rancher Cliven Bundy, who has won support in his standoff with the federal government over grazing rights, is drawing fire for comments about African Americans and slavery. (John Locher / Associated Press / February 5, 2013)

Battle lines hardening in Nevada cattle rancher standoff with feds Battle lines hardening in Nevada cattle rancher standoff with feds
Authorities on defensive over Nevada cattle roundup on federal land Authorities on defensive over Nevada cattle roundup on federal land
BLM halts seizure of Nevada rancher's cattle, citing safety concerns BLM halts seizure of Nevada rancher's cattle, citing safety concerns
The U.S. can't let Cliven Bundy win his range war Opinion: The U.S. can't let Cliven Bundy win his range war

By John M. Glionna

April 24, 2014, 10:29 a.m.

LAS VEGAS -- Nevada rancher Cliven Bundy’s battle against the federal government over land rights took an unexpected detour after a newspaper quoted the 67-year-old grandfather suggesting African Americans were "better off as slaves" because slavery taught work skills and enhanced family life.

Bundy, who has waged a standoff with the Bureau of Land Management, insisting he has a right to graze hundreds of head of cattle on public lands without paying fees, has been surrounded by citizen militias that have converged on his ranch in rural Bunkerville after armed federal officials moved in to remove Bundy’s cattle.

The BLM called off the roundup and released the cattle, but says the matter is not over. Bundy and his supporters are awaiting the government's next move.

Over the weekend, Bundy spoke to supporters about general issues involved in the standoff. Suddenly, he took a turn and began discoursing on African Americans and public welfare.

“I want to tell you one more thing I know about the Negro,” he said in comments quoted by the New York Times. He recalled driving past a public-housing project in North Las Vegas, “and in front of that government house the door was usually open and the older people and the kids — and there is always at least a half a dozen people sitting on the porch — they didn’t have nothing to do. They didn’t have nothing for their kids to do. They didn’t have nothing for their young girls to do.”

He added: “And because they were basically on government subsidy, so now what do they do?” he asked. “They abort their young children, they put their young men in jail, because they never learned how to pick cotton. And I’ve often wondered, are they better off as slaves, picking cotton and having a family life and doing things, or are they better off under government subsidy? They didn’t get no more freedom. They got less freedom.”

Conservative lawmakers in Washington, who have so far supported Bundy, have blasted his remarks, including Sen. Dean Heller (R-Nev.), who had previously referred to the gray-haired rancher as a patriot.

Heller “completely disagrees with Bundy’s appalling and racist statements and condemns them in the most strenuous way,” his office said.

But some Bundy supporters remained undeterred.

“His statements were not a criticism of blacks. They criticized the federal government,” said Brandon Rapolla, a concrete mixer from Oregon who spent eight days at the ranch. “I’ve met the Bundys, and that’s not who they are.”

Rapolla said he has posted Bundy’s remarks on social media. If people read them, he said, they will understand his point.

“It’s not racism,” he said. “People are trying to divide us on this issue. This is about the federal government, not anything else.”

Nevada's other senator, Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid, who has called Bundy's supporters "domestic terrorists," denounced Bundy's remarks.

"I used to live in North Las Vegas and it is home to some of the hardest-working people I have ever met -- men and women who embody the American dream by working hard every day to build a better life for themselves and their families," Reid, a Democrat, said in a statement.

"By contrast, Cliven Bundy has spent decades profiting off government land while refusing to pay the same fair use fees as his fellow ranchers. Today, Bundy revealed himself to be a hateful racist. But by denigrating people who work hard and play by the rules while he mooches off public land he also revealed himself to be a hypocrite."


http://www.latimes.com/nation/nationnow/...y#ixzz2zrSJpN82

\:lol\:


I KNEW you would leap on that "negro" remark, M E M.


And Cliven Bundy's saying what he did marks the exact point where myself and others step off the train.

That doesn't invalidate his earlier points about property rights and federal intrusion on Constitutional freedom.
But certainly, Bundy's opinions on racial issues are embarrassingly stereotypical and off-the-mark. And really, who in 2014 still says "negro"?
Interesting also that the media who wanted to pretend Bundy and the 5,000 or so others who came out to support him didn't exist, and selectively ignored coverage of him, now suddenly are giving Bundy massive coverage because he has said something that discredits himself and their cause, and can be exploited to slime other conservatives.

Of course, when liberals make similar ignorant and racist remarks, the media can be counted on not to report it.
There are similar remarks by Harry Reid, Bill Clinton, and Joseph Biden, to name only three, that no one in the mainstream liberal media will EVER report.
I hardly leaped on it WB. Also Bundy never had a valid point about property rights. He's using land that wasn't his and refused to pay for that use. When the feds came to collect after 20 years they were not allowed to. His sense of being entitled to what isn't his and the armed resistance and threats isn't patriotic nor did it deserve any sympathy.
Just a thought, but isn't it possible that both Bundy and the government are wrong here?

Bundy for thinking he has a legal right to at leased property that he does not in fact have a right to and the government for having a legal right to the property but attempting to enforce that right with an overly heavy hand?
Honestly looking at what the feds were facing, do you honestly think they would have been allowed to collect the cattle with anything less? Again this had been going on for 20 years and even with what they had they had to retreat.
The BLM didn't even seize the cattle for sale. They did it for pure intimidation, and just to deprive him of property and capital.

As proven by the corpses of dead cattle the Bundy family found buried after the BLM agents stood down and left.


There is no principle or law on the part of the BLM and FBI, this is just about intimidation and authoritarian control.
Specifically, Agenda 21.

Long before any trumped up law was passed to force the Bundy family to pay grazing fees, this land was theirs, since the 1870's. Suddenly, a new law was passed saying Bundy had to pay fees for the same land his family has been using for 140 years.

The question you NEVER answer, M E M, is why it was okay to push 52 other cattle-rancher families off their land. They were intimidated, where the Bundy family will not be. If they were DNC party donors or committed progressive leftists, no doubt you would suddenly acknowledge that these are human beings with rights that have been violated.
This is not about Bundy allegedly trying to be a mooch getting something for free. He is not paying out of principle. I've seen multiple stories where the fees he owes are at most $300,000 and yet BLM manipulation has pushed them up over $1 million!
For grazing cows?
Does that make ANY sense?

It is clear, M E M, that you are sucking on the propaganda tit of Media Matters and the far-left propaganda machine, and you are eager to suck down any tainted milk they feed you. You refuse to acknowledge the obvious federal over-reach, even when they are pointing guns in these families' faces, over minor fees for grass grazing and endangered turtles.
You demonize these people because you see them as a conservative/Tea Party symbolic victory over the liberal fascists you support. And if they shot these people or dragged them off to a death camp, you would STILL support it, and not raise the slightest criticism.

It frankly pisses me off that you can't acknowledge the basic rights of people you disagree with politically. And you endorse such a gun-toting/attack-dog/tasering jackbooted over-reach of the BLM and FBI.
It was very lucky that no one got shot because of that federal over-reach, and yet you endorse these bully tactics, even when they literally put lives at risk, for no justifiable reason.
 Originally Posted By: Matter-eater Man
Honestly looking at what the feds were facing, do you honestly think they would have been allowed to collect the cattle with anything less? Again this had been going on for 20 years and even with what they had they had to retreat.


They didn't collect them anyway. Due to CONSERVATIVE and alternative-media exposure (certainly not the Reich-serving liberal media) this over-reach was exposed and they were forced to back down and return the cattle. The ones the BLM didn't already slaughter, anyway.



http://freebeacon.com/issues/last-man-standing/

 Quote:
As of Monday, officials have seized 234 of Bundy’s 908 cattle. Impounding the cattle alone could cost the government as much as $3 million.

“They just brought a load down today,” she said. “They kind of harass us as well. When we leave they follow us.”

This afternoon eight helicopters surrounded the family after they began taking pictures, according to Bundy’s daughter, Bailey. Their son, Dave Bundy, was arrested for taking pictures on state road 170, which has been closed, and is being held by BLM.


The standoff is over now, but at the height of it, what purpose did it serve for the BLM to come in with their guns, attack dogs and tasers?
To seize cattle to recoup the cost of fines?
As said here, impounding the cattle alone would cost up to $3 million.
TRIPLE what even the trumped-up padded federal grazing fees add up to. And that's not even including the cost of staking out the ranch for a week or so with highly paid federal agents, high-tech surveillance, and helicopters flying constantly over the ranch for that week.

Yeah, that was really worth brandishing guns, attack dogs and tasers in protestors' faces.
The problem with trying the whole "it isn't worth the cost" argument is that unlike Bundy there are many other ranchers who do pay for their cattle to graze. If Bundy doesn't have to pay than why should they? The government will never let Bundy freeload because there's more at stake than just him. If it becomes okay to take without worrying about the federal government will do it won't even just be about ranchers but also other things.
Actually, that's precisely the point. That no one should have to pay it.

That Eminent Domain and Agenda 21 are intrusive on individual Constitutional freedoms, and should be abolished.

The same way gays object to existing laws that sodomy between 2 consenting adult men (or a heterosexual couple). That telling people what they can do in the privacy of their own bedroom is intrusive on individual rights.

Environmental laws are a sham that are ALL about controlling people, not about grazing fees or saving turtles.
 Originally Posted By: Wonder Boy
Actually, that's precisely the point. That no one should have to pay it.

That Eminent Domain and Agenda 21 are intrusive on individual Constitutional freedoms, and should be abolished.


I admit that I haven't followed this very closely but isn't this property that Bundy doesn't, in fact, own and never did?

If so:
  • 1. Why shouldn't he have to pay rent?
    2. What does eminent domain, which involves the taking of private property by the government and not taking public property by the individual, have to do with it?
While Bundy has a ranch of considerable acreage, since it's desert shrub (vs., say, grassland) in Nevada, it requires much more land to graze his 900 or so cows. And so, like other ranchers, he partly grazes his cattle on adjacent government land. In reports I've seen, there is dispute (and therefore uncertainty) about whether this land is either state or federal land.
The adjacent "government" land is not used for anything, and therefore it deprives no one for Bundy to graze his cattle there.

Beyond that:
1. The rent was not always charged. And the Bundy family has challenged the legitimacy of these fines in court for 20 years and ongoing. Although so far the courts have sided against their assertion that they shouldn't have to pay the fees.

2. In addition Bundy previously had 52 other cattle-ranching neighbors who have been driven off their land and forced to sell by these federal agencies. So while it's not officially called eminent domain, that's ultimately what it's about: driving these ranchers off their land so that the federal government (or federal defense contractors) can seize their land and use it for their own purposes. As this real estate broker attests to.

And ultimately, it's about Agenda 21, locking down authoritarian control on the country, and eliminating the potential for people to live independently in rural areas where they can provide their own food and protect themselves with guns, outside of urban areas, without dependency on government and mainstream food supplies.
Using hundreds of acres of government land to feed your livestock for free isn't actually being independent WB. Nor is there any actual uncertainty about the ownership, Bundy just refuses to accept that the feds do own that land that he's been using.
 Quote:
The adjacent "government" land is not used for anything, and therefore it deprives no one for Bundy to graze his cattle there.


How is the fact that the legitimate property owner may or may not use the land relevant to whether somebody else has a right to use it rent-free?

If, for example, I own a vacant lot and don't choose to do anything with it, can my neighbor go in and put a house on it or farm it? I don't think so.
Okay.....so you're cool with that kind of coercion from a centralized power (that doesn't even technically qualify as the state).

By chance, were you also cool with states socially engineering the populace by raising taxes on particular commercial products to phase out certain cultural trends?
Owning land is coercion?
Define "government property."
Property owned by the government.
Uh huh. Now what makes up the government?
The people. However unlike Bundy, most of us buy, pay taxes on, and/or rent the land we need for our personal use.
Posted By: the G-man Re: The Bundy farm thing - 2014-04-28 6:59 AM
 Originally Posted By: Pariah
Uh huh. Now what makes up the government?


So all the damn dirty hippies who protest on government owned military bases can't be arrested for trespassing?


That depends: do you honestly believe an armed militia would start digging trenches for long-hairs?

 Originally Posted By: Matter-eater Man
The people. However unlike Bundy, most of us buy, pay taxes on, and/or rent the land we need for our personal use.


I'm sure contemporary intellectuals made similar arguments about the War of Regulations, Shay's rebellion, the Whiskey rebellion, and--of course--the Civil War. People that compose the states (and original colonies) of our union, however, still fought those conflicts. I reiterate: those PEOPLE.

The ultimate question here is not whether or not other people tolerated exorbitant fees and/or taxes that were designed to gouge the ranchers, but rather whether or not they should have.
Posted By: the G-man The Bundy farm thing - 2014-04-28 2:16 PM
 Quote:
That depends: do you honestly believe an armed militia would start digging trenches for long-hairs?


I'm not at all sure what you're trying to get at, but in any event don't see the relevance.

US military bases are owned by the federal government. The federal government is comprised of "the people."

If you are going to justify individual citizens entering upon federal property without permission simply because they are "the people," then how do you not allow such people-including hippies or anyone else-to enter upon any federal property, including military bases?

Even if you want to argue military bases are unique under "national security," not every piece of federal property has a national security component. Monuments, Parks, museums, federal office buildings and the courts: all of them would be wide open and a target for the type of people who join the Occutard movement.

Do you really want to defend, for example, a bunch of protesters trying to justify a sit in at some Congressional Republican's office on the theory that his or her office is federal property and therefore can't be closed to "the people?"
Posted By: Pariah Re: The Bundy farm thing - 2014-04-29 1:40 AM
 Originally Posted By: the G-man
US military bases are owned by the federal government. The federal government is comprised of "the people."


You've missed the satire of my point to MEM: If the argument is that it's out of touch, then the ultimate claim is that it's no longer comprised of the people. It dictates to them. As such, the only real representatives of the people you have become the ones' who actually turn out to leverage the authorities of the centralized power.

Obviously, I don't think that every instance of sit-it protests are logically justified. Frankly, I hardly see sit-ins on military bases as relevant in this instance since the military isn't being used to coerce these ranchers.

 Quote:
If you are going to justify individual citizens entering upon federal property without permission simply because they are "the people," then how do you not allow such people-including hippies or anyone else-to enter upon any federal property, including military bases?


You're missing my point entirely. The people, in this instance, mobilized as a reactive force against coercive management of state lands by the federal government. The argument against the government, thus far, is that their fines and regulations are not proportionate, or even just, relative to the crime.

I'm a Laissez-Faire proponent through and through. But ever since I got a job in the public sector, I've had to acknowledge that the rules change when you're fucking around with other people's money and assets (e.g. lands). If the land were owned by a private citizen, I wouldn't have said anything (and neither would that armed militia). But the land is public property, and the public is demonstrating verbal and physical disagreement with how it's being managed. In my opinion, their case is sound. And I haven't even mentioned the fucking cows the BLM stole, and then subsequently slaughtered, for no good fucking reason.
Posted By: the G-man Re: The Bundy farm thing - 2014-04-29 5:07 AM
Understand, I've already posited that, even if Bundy is legally wrong (and I tend to think he is for the reasons cited above), that doesn't mean the government didn't overreact. The thing with the cows is one example of that.
Posted By: Son of Mxy Re: The Bundy farm thing - 2014-04-29 5:44 AM
where are the cows now? Did we at least get some kickass burgers out of them?
Posted By: Matter-eater Man Re: The Bundy farm thing - 2014-04-29 3:14 PM
 Quote:

Sheriff urged to clamp down on armed militiamen around Bundy ranch
Image

STEVE MARCUS

Reid Hendricks of Camden, Tenn., and Jim (no last name provided) of Las Vegas take up a position on a hill by Cliven Bundy’s ranch near Bunkerville on Tuesday, April 15, 2014. Hendricks is a former Marine (honorably discharged) and has worked as a police officer and a high school history teacher, he said.

By Kyle Roerink (contact)

Monday, April 28, 2014 | 4:16 p.m.
BLM-Bundy Standoff: April 12, 2014


A growing number of Bunkerville residents want to see the armed militiamen guarding rancher Cliven Bundy leave Nevada, according to a letter from Rep. Steven Horsford, D-Nev., to Clark County Sheriff Doug Gillespie.

Horsford, whose congressional district includes Bunkerville, wrote that his constituents are concerned about Bundy supporters carrying weapons near local churches, schools and elsewhere.

Militia members flocked to Nevada to support Bundy in his fight with the government over his refusal to pay fees for his cattle to graze on federal land.

“I urge you to investigate these reports and to work with local leaders to ensure that their concerns are addressed in a manner that allows the community to move forward without incident,” Horsford wrote to Gillespie.

The letter also says militiamen have a presence on state and local roads as well as federal highways. In some areas, according to the letter, militiamen have set up checkpoints where drivers are stopped and asked to provide a proof of residency.

They’ve been seen carrying high-caliber weapons and keep a round-the-clock security detail on Bundy.

Many of the militiamen, attracted by Bundy’s views on state’s rights and public lands, traveled from across the country to support him in his stand against the Bureau of Land Management.

Bundy owes the BLM $1 million in grazing fees. Earlier this month, the agency called off a roundup of Bundy’s cattle after escalating tensions between federal agents and militia members.


lasvegassun.com

I think this could make some good election year commercials.
Posted By: Wonder Boy Re: The Bundy farm thing - 2014-04-29 4:06 PM
I wonder how many hundreds of locals the MediaMatters types interviewed until they found ONE resident who was more concerned about the armed militia men than the widely held rage the locals felt about the BLM and FBI pointing guns, attack dogs and tasers at them.
Posted By: Wonder Boy Re: The Bundy farm thing - 2014-05-04 9:13 AM




'Bigger than Bundy': Land agency's battles go beyond rancher dispute

 Quote:
It's the most powerful agency you've never heard of -- at least, until recently.

The Bureau of Land Management, the nation's biggest landlord, found itself in the spotlight after a high-profile brawl with Nevada rancher Cliven Bundy and another dispute with state officials over the Texas-Oklahoma borderlands.


But the seemingly obscure agency, which is in charge of millions of acres of public land, is no stranger to controversy. History shows the power struggle over property rights and land use is one that's been fought -- fiercely -- ever since the bureau was created.

In the nearly seven decades of its existence, the BLM has struggled to find its footing and exert its power, pitted against a vocal states' rights movement.

"The federal government already owns too much land," Texas Gov. Rick Perry, one of the champions of that modern-day movement, recently told Fox News. He called for the federal government, and by extension the BLM, to "divest itself of a huge amount of this landholdings that it has across the country."


The Bureau of Land Management was formed in 1946, consolidating two now-extinct agencies into one for the purpose of overseeing public land. In the beginning, the BLM mostly focused on livestock and mines. Its mission shifted, though, in the 1970s when it took on the role of mediator between commerce and conservation, and faced a second identity crisis in the 1980s. That's when the so-called Sagebrush Rebellion gained new momentum in its push to return control of federal lands to individual states.

That "rebellion" may be underway once again, as states renew concerns about the amount of land controlled by the BLM. Congress also recently weighed in, with House lawmakers passing a bill in February that would prevent the BLM from buying new land.

Currently, the agency, which falls under the purview of the U.S. Department of Interior, oversees 247.3 million acres -- or about one-eighth of the land in the country.

It also owns 700 million acres of on-shore federal mineral estates.

The BLM is responsible for managing a large spectrum of natural resources. The federal agency regulates logging, mining and fracking practices across the country. It also administers close to 18,000 permits and leases a year held by ranchers who graze their livestock on land managed by the federal government. The permits and leases they issue usually last a decade and can be renewed.

In 2009, regulation of public lands in Western states generated $6.2 billion.

By acreage, the agency's largest stake is in Alaska where it owns 72.4 million acres. Nevada ranks second, with 48 million acres under the BLM, and then Utah, with 22.9 million acres.

In Nevada, rancher Cliven Bundy's recent refusal to hand over his family's cattle to the feds re-ignited the national debate over the BLM's power.



On the heels of that controversy, more than 50 lawmakers from nine Western states came together to protest federal land expansion. The state leaders discussed ways to combine their joint goals of taking control of oil-, timber- and mineral-rich lands away from the federal government.

"It's so much bigger than Bundy. There are issues ... all across the West where the federal government is exerting control over things it was never supposed to control," Utah state Rep. Ken Ivory told Fox News. "The federal government was supposed to be a trustee. They do own the land. They do hold title to the land in trust ... but they have a duty to dispose of the land with all states east of Colorado."

Ivory says he wants the federal government to keep a promise it made in the 1894 Enabling Act that made Utah a state. He argues that public lands, except for congressionally designated national parks and wilderness areas, should be transferred back to the states.

So far, state lawmakers in Idaho, New Mexico, Arizona, Nevada, Wyoming, Oregon and Washington are looking for ways to transfer land management back to the states.

Utah, though, has been the most successful. Lawmakers there passed a measure demanding the federal government extinguish title to federal lands, aside from national parks. Ivory was also the primary backer of the 2012 Transfer of Public Lands Act which established a model for the transfer of certain federal lands to the state in the coming years.

The Bundy case has been largely viewed as the first leadership test for new BLM Director Neil Kornze, who was confirmed by the U.S. Senate and sworn into office in April. The local land-use dust-up fed into a growing apprehension over just how much authority the BLM has and how far it is willing to go to maintain control.

In Texas, Attorney General Greg Abbott sent a letter to Kornze looking into allegations the BLM was eyeing a massive land grab in northern Texas. "Decisions of this magnitude must not be made inside a bureaucratic black box," wrote Abbott, a GOP gubernatorial candidate.


The agency indicated that the land in question was determined to be public property. "The BLM is categorically not expanding Federal holdings along the Red River," a BLM spokeswoman said in a written statement.

Attention on the Bundy-BLM battle has lately turned to racially insensitive remarks that Bundy made in several media interviews and appearances.

Conservative and libertarian lawmakers like Kentucky Sen. Rand Paul and Texas Sen. Ted Cruz, initially came to Bundy's defense, calling his situation the latest example of big government overreach. Both, though, have since scaled back their comments in light of Bundy's remarks.

"Senator Paul spoke out against federal over-regulation and BLM handling of a situation," Paul spokesman Doug Stafford said in a written statement. "He has never spoken to or met Mr. Bundy and is not responsible for the vile comments that come out of his mouth."

Others say Bundy was at fault, failing to pay $1.1 million in fees for letting his cattle graze on government grass for more than two decades.

"I wish Mr. Bundy would mind his law requirements and not try to play to the television cameras about confronting the evil federal government," former BLM director Patrick Shea told KSL TV. Shea has been on both sides of the land-use debate. He represented activist Tim DeChristopher who took on the BLM over the 2008 sale of controversial oil and gas leases in Utah.

The BLM has run into trouble elsewhere.

In March, BLM officials rounded up a horse herd in Wyoming after area ranchers and farmers complained that the herd grazed down pastures and damaged cattle rangeland. The horses were turned over to Wyoming officials. The state then quickly sold all 41 horses to a Canadian slaughterhouse. Animal rights groups protested the sale and slaughter.


A year earlier, BLM agents in Nevada announced they would be removing 50 wild horses from a herd that had grown too large to be sustained.

But the complaints go beyond horses. In 2011, several Utah counties filed a lawsuit against the agency over exceeding its authority by establishing wilderness protections without the consent of Congress.

Back in the nation's capital, House lawmakers passed a package in February that includes a collection of public land access and restoration provisions. They also adopted two amendments that extend the length of grazing permits on federal lands to 20 years from 10 years and also allow expired or transferred permits to remain effective until new ones can be issued.

Calls to the BLM for comment were not returned.
Posted By: Matter-eater Man Re: The Bundy farm thing - 2014-05-04 4:35 PM


How do you feel about a reporter being told that they don't deserve rights by armed militia?
Posted By: Wonder Boy Re: The Bundy farm thing - 2014-05-04 5:54 PM


OFF CAMERA, TO REPORTER: "You're a reporter. Are you working for the American people or some other entity?"
REPORTER: "I'm a Mexican American."

The reporter is pretty up front that he's working as a foreign national (a Mexican, with a non-objective anti-American agenda) against the interest of simply reporting the news.
Even so, they respectfully had a dialogue with him, and dealt with the Mexican-American reporter in a non-threatening manner, and after gave the opinion BASED ON THE REPORTER'S OWN STATED BIAS, that he does not deserve the Constitutional rights he has, based on his un-American first loyalty.
And basically, they just stated that they personally wouldn't cooperate with him in his biased spin of the news, but otherwise did not obstruct or threaten him in any way.

It looked to me like they had a very Constitution-conscious dialogue with him, and with remarkable politeness, pointed out that he was acting as a foreign national, against the Constitutional/national interest.
Posted By: Wonder Boy Re: The Bundy farm thing - 2014-05-21 1:16 PM


Black guy on Cliven Bundy's security detail defends Bundy:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4PdBBdCRWq8



He makes an interesting point that Bundy is in his 70's and had lived though several generations of politically correct terminology for blacks (negro, colored, black, African-American...)

But still, it's pretty damn funny to see a guy go on national TV with a reporter saying "Let me tell you a little something about the negro.."
Posted By: Wonder Boy Re: The Bundy farm thing - 2014-05-25 7:58 PM


M E M's Youtube clip of the self-identified Mexican reporter expired. Here a link to another posting of the same clip:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eP1xNiuoSio
Posted By: Lothar of The Hill People Re: The Bundy Farm Thing - 2014-06-07 5:12 AM
 Originally Posted By: Wonder Boy










That video would be better if she would take her dress off.
Posted By: Wonder Boy Re: The Bundy Farm Thing - 2014-06-08 12:41 AM


She is beautiful, yes.

Beyond her insightful reporting, she's very easy on the eyes. She's also very fun and personality plus, despite that she doesn't pull any punches in her interviews.

Another I like a lot on Fox is Andrea Tantaros.
And more personality than commentary Joann Nosuchinsky on Redeye. Although I rarely watch her, the show's on so late.
Posted By: Wonder Boy Re: The Bundy Farm Thing - 2018-10-22 7:41 AM



Anyone ever what happened to this Bundy guy and his family?


I was watching this video...


Agenda 21, The Plan To Kill You - David Icke
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bMeXSlGJZYc


...and it reminded me of this topic.
Posted By: Wonder Boy Re: The Bundy Farm Thing - 2018-12-23 4:35 AM



I don't think I've ever seen Cliven Bundy's comments in their full context:



There's a lot of racialgroups he said, "Let me tell you about..."
His opinion on Mexicans, blacks, and more broadly hispanic people. In some ways he praised hispanics as culturally better than white Americans. With each, he discussed their particular cultural perspective and past experience, in a remarkably less racist way than he is portrayed in soundbytes.

Another user-comment on Youtube by a black user, regarding Bundy's his ethnic terms, points out this is a guy in his 70's saying "the negro", and this is a guy who lived through many decades where the polite term of attempted racial sensitivity changed from "colored" to "negro" to "black" to "Afro-American" to "African American". So in saying "the negro" Bundy is probably using what was the most racially benign term of his formative early adult years. And he does speak compassionately about each group in a way that at least tries to see things through their perspective.

Bundy in this full-context clip comes across as much less racist than as soundbyted on the major network news reports. But regardless, then Bundy said "Let me tell you something I know about the negro....", that is absolutely the point where he lost all public support.

And combining that with the "Alt Right" joining in the protests in Charlottsville in Sept 2017, when someone is overtly racist, or at least is portrayed as racist, that becomes the point where no one even on the conservative side, or even in conservative news reporting, will make any attempt to defendthem, or offer facts that will vindicate them.

I saw that with Fox News in Charlottsville, that they wouldn't defend and clarify that a large slice of the protestors were only protesting to preserve Confederate historical monuments, and had actually told the white supremacists to take their Aryan white-power stuff and leave. Fox News didn't want to do anything that would even potentially allow them to be portrayed as the network that stood up for white supremacists. And to avoid that, they avoided reporting some of the facts.

It looks like this is another example.
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