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MADRID, Spain — Spain's prime minister ordered Spanish troops pulled out of Iraq as soon as possible Sunday, fulfilling a campaign pledge and trying to calm his uneasy nation after bombings that killed 191 people in Madrid.
Prime Minister Jose Luis Rodriguez Zapatero (search), who swept to victory in elections three days after the bombings, said he acted after deciding the United Nations was unprepared to take over the occupation of Iraq — his condition for keeping Spanish troops in the country.
Militants who claimed responsibility for the March 11 Madrid bombings (search) said they were in retaliation for Spain's role in Iraq.
In the announcement, surprising for its timing, Zapatero said he had ordered his defense minister to "do what is necessary for the Spanish troops stationed in Iraq to return home in the shortest time possible."
Zapatero spoke just hours after the new Socialist (search) government was sworn in. His party won March 14 general elections and had pledged to bring Spain's 1,300 troops home unless the United Nations took political and military control.
"With the information we have, and which we have gathered over the past few weeks, it is not foreseeable that the United Nations will adopt a resolution" that satisfies Spain's terms, Zapatero said.
Public remarks by key officials and contacts that Defense Minister Jose Bono made over the past month show no signs that the political and military situation will change to satisfy Spain's demands by the June 30 deadline, Zapatero said.
He noted that most Spaniards opposed the decision by his predecessor, Jose Maria Aznar, to support the war, and said withdrawing the troops had been a longstanding pledge.
"More than anything, this decision reflects my desire to keep the promise I made to the Spanish people more than a year ago," he said.
"Driven by the deepest democratic convictions, the government does not want to, cannot and will not act against or behind the backs of the will of the Spanish people," he said.
He said the Spanish government would support efforts by the United Nations or European Union to prepare Iraq for elections and the handover of sovereignty, expected June 30.
Foreign Minister Miguel Angel Moratinos said he would meet Wednesday in Washington with Secretary of State Colin Powell and National Security Adviser Condoleezza Rice to offer non-military cooperation in Iraq.
Zapatero won parliamentary backing as prime minister on Friday.
With 164 seats in the 350-seat Congress of Deputies, his Socialist party fell 12 seats short of a majority in the election. But small, mainly regional parties holding a total of 19 seats gave Zapatero the necessary cushion to become prime minister.
Fuck spain.
Fuck anyone that lets terrorists bully them around.
now known as rex
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Now, while I don't agree with Spain pulling out their troops, I feel like I should defend Spain in this particular case.
They've just had a government change. and the new government was always opposed to the war in Iraq, along with the Spanish people.
So while the bombing in Madrid might be some of the reason, it's not the only reason, and certainly not the most important reason.
Anyway, it's still stupid that they are pulling their troops out. They should see it through!
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Socialist party.
And we're surprised by this?
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Quote:
Chant said:
Anyway, it's still stupid that they are pulling their troops out. They should see it through!
Like America did in Somalia, you mean?
Just out of interest, when was France subjected to a terrorist attack over their role in invading Iraq? I must have missed the news that evening.
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very good point D., if America had seen through Somalia 9-11 might not have happened. I believe very strongly it showed that America blinks when it is inflicted with casualties and it gave strength to these terror organizations. I think if we had seen it through we might not be in the position we are today. Thank goodness the current administration has learned from the mistakes of the past and is not going to appease the bad guys.
Last edited by britneyspearsatemyshorts; 2004-04-18 8:46 PM.
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Quote:
D. McDonagh said:
Quote:
Chant said:
Anyway, it's still stupid that they are pulling their troops out. They should see it through!
Like America did in Somalia, you mean?
Just out of interest, when was France subjected to a terrorist attack over their role in invading Iraq? I must have missed the news that evening.
ummm, France wasn't subjected to any attack, Spain was.
Racks be to MisterJLA
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please see the other threads for D.'s comprehension trouble....
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The second comment should have been directed at rexstardust. There's a slight difference between being subjected to a terrorist attack over something and refusing to get involved in the first place.
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now known as rex
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Quote:
D. McDonagh said:
The second comment should have been directed at rexstardust. There's a slight difference between being subjected to a terrorist attack over something and refusing to get involved in the first place.
Sorry, my mistake 
Racks be to MisterJLA
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Quote:
rexstardust said:
You lost. Deal with it.
he's had quite a bad run on these boards today!
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Quote:
"More than anything, this decision reflects my desire to keep the promise I made to the Spanish people more than a year ago," he said.
"Driven by the deepest democratic convictions, the government does not want to, cannot and will not act against or behind the backs of the will of the Spanish people," he said.
Quote:
"More than anything, this decision reflects my desire to keep the promise I made to the Spanish people more than a year ago," he said.
"Driven by the deepest democratic convictions, the government does not want to, cannot and will not act against or behind the backs of the will of the Spanish people," he said.
Quote:
"More than anything, this decision reflects my desire to keep the promise I made to the Spanish people more than a year ago," he said.
"Driven by the deepest democratic convictions, the government does not want to, cannot and will not act against or behind the backs of the will of the Spanish people," he said.
Quote:
"More than anything, this decision reflects my desire to keep the promise I made to the Spanish people more than a year ago," he said.
"Driven by the deepest democratic convictions, the government does not want to, cannot and will not act against or behind the backs of the will of the Spanish people," he said.
Quote:
"More than anything, this decision reflects my desire to keep the promise I made to the Spanish people more than a year ago," he said.
"Driven by the deepest democratic convictions, the government does not want to, cannot and will not act against or behind the backs of the will of the Spanish people," he said.
Quote:
"More than anything, this decision reflects my desire to keep the promise I made to the Spanish people more than a year ago," he said.
"Driven by the deepest democratic convictions, the government does not want to, cannot and will not act against or behind the backs of the will of the Spanish people," he said.
Quote:
"More than anything, this decision reflects my desire to keep the promise I made to the Spanish people more than a year ago," he said.
"Driven by the deepest democratic convictions, the government does not want to, cannot and will not act against or behind the backs of the will of the Spanish people," he said.
Quote:
"More than anything, this decision reflects my desire to keep the promise I made to the Spanish people more than a year ago," he said.
"Driven by the deepest democratic convictions, the government does not want to, cannot and will not act against or behind the backs of the will of the Spanish people," he said.
Quote:
"More than anything, this decision reflects my desire to keep the promise I made to the Spanish people more than a year ago," he said.
"Driven by the deepest democratic convictions, the government does not want to, cannot and will not act against or behind the backs of the will of the Spanish people," he said.
Quote:
"More than anything, this decision reflects my desire to keep the promise I made to the Spanish people more than a year ago," he said.
"Driven by the deepest democratic convictions, the government does not want to, cannot and will not act against or behind the backs of the will of the Spanish people," he said.
Quote:
"More than anything, this decision reflects my desire to keep the promise I made to the Spanish people more than a year ago," he said.
"Driven by the deepest democratic convictions, the government does not want to, cannot and will not act against or behind the backs of the will of the Spanish people," he said.
Quote:
"More than anything, this decision reflects my desire to keep the promise I made to the Spanish people more than a year ago," he said.
"Driven by the deepest democratic convictions, the government does not want to, cannot and will not act against or behind the backs of the will of the Spanish people," he said.
Quote:
"More than anything, this decision reflects my desire to keep the promise I made to the Spanish people more than a year ago," he said.
"Driven by the deepest democratic convictions, the government does not want to, cannot and will not act against or behind the backs of the will of the Spanish people," he said.
Here, since some of you still have trouble comprehending democracy and people acting apart from the will of George W. Bush.
The fact that 90% of the Spanish people opposed their previous governments involvement in the coalition of the bribed and the fact that the justifications for the war was built on outright lies may have something to do with this descision. Imagine that, not wanting to die for a lie. This is how representative democracy works. Deal with it.
I know I know "nuke em" for being "against us", right?
Last edited by whomod; 2004-04-23 7:25 PM.
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giving in to terrorist is always honorable whomod..... 
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Whomod, had there not been a terrorist attack on Spain, then no one would care that they are pulling out. They're actually pretty smart for not wanting to stay involved at this point. But, because there was a terrorist attack, pulling out shows weakness. Not only that, they did it after the terrorists announced they would not attack anyone who pulled out, or stayed out of their business. Now, what this shows the terrorists is that Europe has no backbone, so when someone else does something to piss them off, they will strike again, murdering more civilians.
What the new government should have done, if they still were going to pull out, is announce that would be sending more troops to Afganistan to assist in the hunt for Bin Laden and all of his cock suckers. That would have sent a very different message to the terrorists. Instead of acknowldeging that they are a bunch of pussies, Spain would have been telling them: "You dumb fucks! We were going to pull out of Iraq anyway. We still are, but now we are going to hunt your asses down and fry them for murdering innocent civilians in our own fucking country!" But that's not what Spain is doing, is it?
<sub>Will Eisner's last work - The Plot: The Secret Story of the Protocols of the Elders of ZionRDCW Profile"Well, as it happens, I wrote the damned SOP," Illescue half snarled, "and as of now, you can bar those jackals from any part of this facility until Hell's a hockey rink! Is that perfectly clear?!" - Dr. Franz Illescue - Honor Harrington: At All Costs"I don't know what I'm do, or how I do, I just do." - Alexander Ovechkin</sub>
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If the people of Spain were(in a majority) opposed to the war, then it's hard to fault the government for pulling toops out.
Spain isn't the new France, though, their movies aren't as good.
MisterJLA is RACKing awesome.
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Quote:
britneyspearsatemyshorts said:
giving in to terrorist is always honorable whomod.....
Bush and his imperialist neocon henchmen are the real terrorists! www.impeachbush.com told me so!
-whomod.
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Quote:
PenWing said:
Whomod, had there not been a terrorist attack on Spain, then no one would care that they are pulling out. They're actually pretty smart for not wanting to stay involved at this point. But, because there was a terrorist attack, pulling out shows weakness. Not only that, they did it after the terrorists announced they would not attack anyone who pulled out, or stayed out of their business. Now, what this shows the terrorists is that Europe has no backbone, so when someone else does something to piss them off, they will strike again, murdering more civilians.
What the new government should have done, if they still were going to pull out, is announce that would be sending more troops to Afganistan to assist in the hunt for Bin Laden and all of his cock suckers. That would have sent a very different message to the terrorists. Instead of acknowldeging that they are a bunch of pussies, Spain would have been telling them: "You dumb fucks! We were going to pull out of Iraq anyway. We still are, but now we are going to hunt your asses down and fry them for murdering innocent civilians in our own fucking country!" But that's not what Spain is doing, is it?
SPAIN IS NOT EUROPE!!!
Europe is a group of individual countries and Spain is just a part of them, please don't think that just because one country says something it represents the whole of Europe!'
It doesn't!!!
Please don't make that mistake again
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Okay.
But Spain is wussing out on the whole thing.
"You kind of get tired giving the other team credit. At some point you've got to look in the mirror and say 'I sucked.'"
Alex Rodriguez, after the NY Yankees were eliminated from the 2006 ALDS by the Detroit Tigers.
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Well, that's like, your opinion man!
The fact remains that the new government was always opposed to the war along with 90% of the spanish population. They're pulling out their troops because of that, and not because of the terror bombing. Why do I know that you ask?
well, because had there been no bombing the new government would have pulled their troops out anyway.
I still agree that it's stupid of them and that they should let their troops stay in Iraq.
At least Norway are using the troops they are pulling out of Iraq to reinforce Nato in Afghanistan.
But please don't make the mistake that one nations actions are representative of the political opinion of the entire Europe.
That would be like saying that the state of Utah's actions represent the entire United States, which I'm sure they don't
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Well, that's like, your opinion man!
The fact remains that the new government was always opposed to the war along with 90% of the spanish population. They're pulling out their troops because of that, and not because of the terror bombing. Why do I know that you ask?
well, because had there been no bombing the new government would have pulled their troops out anyway.
I still agree that it's stupid of them and that they should let their troops stay in Iraq.
At least Norway are using the troops they are pulling out of Iraq to reinforce Nato in Afghanistan.
But please don't make the mistake that one nations actions are representative of the political opinion of the entire Europe.
That would be like saying that the state of Utah's actions represent the entire United States, which I'm sure they don't
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Quote:
PenWing said:
Whomod, had there not been a terrorist attack on Spain, then no one would care that they are pulling out. They're actually pretty smart for not wanting to stay involved at this point. But, because there was a terrorist attack, pulling out shows weakness. Not only that, they did it after the terrorists announced they would not attack anyone who pulled out, or stayed out of their business. Now, what this shows the terrorists is that Europe has no backbone, so when someone else does something to piss them off, they will strike again, murdering more civilians.
.
What the new government should have done, if they still were going to pull out, is announce that [they] would be sending more troops to Afganistan to assist in the hunt for Bin Laden and all of his cock suckers. That would have sent a very different message to the terrorists. Instead of acknowledging that they are a bunch of pussies, Spain would have been telling them: "You dumb fucks! We were going to pull out of Iraq anyway. We still are, but now we are going to hunt your asses down and fry them for murdering innocent civilians in our own fucking country!" But that's not what Spain is doing, is it?
Wow. Extremely well said, Penwing.
By allowing terrorism to decide Spain's policy, Spain has guaranteed that the same pre-election terrorism formula will be used on other nations. Including Spain again, at the point any terror group (not just al Qaida) feels the urge to intimidate Spain again.
And I fully expect a terror bombing in the U.S. in late October, precisely because of Spain's actions.
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"This Man, This Wonder Boy..."
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But terrorism didn't decide Spain's policy. The previous Govt.'s lies about who was responsible for it after the fact sealed their fate. They reaped the whirlwind for their outright duplicity just a few days before the election.
Now contrary to some opinion that has Spain running away with their tails between their legs, fear didn't cause this policy shift, it was anger. Anger at the duplicity regarding "basque sepratists" but also the aforementioned 90% opposition to the Iraq war in the 1st place. Just because you see Iraq as somehow being against the fight on terror doesn't mean everyone shares that opinion. Terrorists targeting countries for their participation in Iraq is just a justification IMO. the correct response is not to stay in a war your people don't beleive in but to fight the terrorists!
Now I agree, the timing sucked. I also agree that a good response shold be that after leaving Iraq, send a large contingent over to the wastelands of Afghanistan, to Pakistan, to Yemen and wherever else these terrorists are ALLOWED to hide. But then I think that should also be our policy as well.
Last edited by whomod; 2004-04-24 9:54 PM.
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Quote:
whomod said:
But terrorism didn't decide Spain's policy. The previous Govt.'s lies about who was responsible for it after the fact sealed their fate. They reaped the whirlwind for their outright duplicity just a few days before the election.
Now contrary to some opinion that has Spain running away with their tails between their legs, fear didn't cause this policy shift, it was anger. Anger at the duplicity regarding "basque sepratists" but also the aforementioned 90% opposition to the Iraq war in the 1st place. Just because you see Iraq as somehow being against the fight on terror doesn't mean everyone shares that opinion. Terrorists targeting countries for their participation in Iraq is just a justification IMO. the correct response is not to stay in a war your people don't beleive in but to fight the terrorists!
Now I agree, the timing sucked. I also agree that a good response shold be that after leaving Iraq, send a large contingent over to the wastelands of Afghanistan, to Pakistan, to Yemen and wherever else these terrorists are ALLOWED to hide. But then I think that should also be our policy as well.
But my point is not that Spain is pulling out, my point is that they are pulling out and doing exactly what the terrorists want: leaving them alone.
If there would not have been an attack on Spain, and Spain pulled out, fine. Like I said, it's not smart to stay in. The U.S. should have gotten the hell out of there as soon as they found Saddam. By capturing Saddam, the U.S. difused a would be problem in Libia, and I'm sure several other nations. But they stayed too long. Now the question is whether the U.S. can pull out without showing weakness? I have no answer for this.
Chant, the leading voices in Europe have shown a lack of backbone, and Spain has proven this to be the case. I know there are other nations in Europe, but what will happen when they are targetted? Will they have the guts to take on the responisbility of seeking justice for their dead, or will they run with their tails between their legs? The thing with terrorists is that if it works once, they think it will work again. Hell, if it doesn't work the first time, they'll try it again anyway.
<sub>Will Eisner's last work - The Plot: The Secret Story of the Protocols of the Elders of ZionRDCW Profile"Well, as it happens, I wrote the damned SOP," Illescue half snarled, "and as of now, you can bar those jackals from any part of this facility until Hell's a hockey rink! Is that perfectly clear?!" - Dr. Franz Illescue - Honor Harrington: At All Costs"I don't know what I'm do, or how I do, I just do." - Alexander Ovechkin</sub>
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i think whomod could understand this if his view wasnt so jaded, the former goverment was allined with Bush and in his eyes any decisions they made are tainted.....
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I think that there is a growing tendecy, a very disturbing tendency, in America to think that everybody else are either cowards of stupid.
Somehow you are incapable of even considering that Spain is not withdrawing its troops because of terrorism, but because its people and government is against the war!
why is it so difficult to comprehend?
Norway is repostioning its troops to Afghanistan, Greatbritain and Denmark are certainly not going to withdraw their troops, regardless of terror threats.
The governmet in Spain would have withdrawn its troops anyway, regardless of terrorism, it was most likely a bad coincidence.
Sure, I still think that they should let their troops stay in Iraq, but it's their choice and their choice alone.
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in a round about way it's cowardice, those countries that are pulling out will continue to buy and use oil that flows from Iraq, that the US and the rest of the coalition is trying to stabilize. Expecting someone else to do their dirty work is wrong no matter how you look at it.
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Fuck Spain and Fuck France........and Fuck D.Mcdon'tknowshit.
By the way how about that shoddy French workmaniship on their new Airport Terminal........Fucking Losers.
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PJP- You're a fucking idiot. You're poking fun of, what, 4 innocent people being killed.
I'd rather be French or Spanish than a greco-retard.
FREE SCOTT PETERSON!
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Can I just add that Spain says it would stay if the UN was administering the place, not the US.
I think that's fair enough. I don't think anyone should be pulling troops out of Iraq. But I do think that contributors should be able to do so within the UN umbrella. This is France's, Germany's, Turkey's, Egypt's, India's, and Russia's complaint, too. None of these countries want to serve in an American command.
Before anyone starts harping on about how useless the UN is, I suggest you do some research on their peacekeeping abilities. Its checkered, but on the whole its been effectual, multilateral, and inclusive.
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Quote:
JQ said:
PJP- You're a fucking idiot. You're poking fun of, what, 4 innocent people being killed.
I'd rather be French or Spanish than a greco-retard.
I'm not shedding any tears for dead Frenchmen......sorry.
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.....oh and for the record I think it was 5 not 4 French Frogs that died.
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We already are 15000+ posts
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 32,001 Likes: 1 |
5 less people to surrender to al-qaeda.
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Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 17,801
terrible podcaster 15000+ posts
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terrible podcaster 15000+ posts
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 17,801 |
That's a bit overboard, man.
They didn't deserve what happened to them regardless of what country they're from. I dislike what the French are doing too, but I don't want them dead for it.
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Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 15,230 Likes: 1
Banned from the DCMBs since 2002. 15000+ posts
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Banned from the DCMBs since 2002. 15000+ posts
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 15,230 Likes: 1 |
I like the French for what they're doing. They not obeying American foreign policy as if its an imperial directive. They say more countries should be involved in Iraq's rehabilitation through the UN.
France shares concepts of liberty, democracy and fair play like the US. You should have remorse for the French victims of terrorist attacks in the same way that the French had genuine sympathy with the US after 9/11.
Everyone in the US seems to have forgotten this: When 9/11 happened, the French and Germans activated their treaty obligations under NATO.
This obligation means that the attack on the United States was regarded by France and Germany, and the rest of NATO, as an attack on themselves.
Think about that. These people were willing to go to war in retaliation for 9/11. If that attack had come from, say, Russia, they would have been lining up tanks on Russia's border.
How can you say that you regard them with such bitterness because they just disagreed with the nature of the war with Iraq? It makes no sense to me.
The 9/11 terrorists came from Saudi Arabia. It was their society which bred these people. If you want to be angry at anyone, be angry at the Saudis.
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Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 4,205
fudge 4000+ posts
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fudge 4000+ posts
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 4,205 |
Racks be to MisterJLA
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Joined: May 2003
Posts: 5,958
some RKMB'ers are Obsessed with Black People Hmmm? 5000+ posts
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some RKMB'ers are Obsessed with Black People Hmmm? 5000+ posts
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 5,958 |
Defending the French here on these boards is as futile as arguing that not only "liberals" think Iraq policy was handled disastrously.
Bottom line is that they dared question the Administration and therefore they reap the vitrol that inevatibly comes with doing that.
The debate here is not unlike the daily rants you hear on Sean Hannity's radio show. Nothing but rants about the 'liberals" and the "frogs" and cowardice and so on and so forth. No semblance of logic or diplomacy or compromise here. It's all about absolutes. Bush is 100% right and everyone else is absolutely wrong. And to think otherwise is traitorous, cowardly and "against us".
Therfore the French are the enemy. So sayeth the idealouge zealots.
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