RKMBs Forums .::Robegories::. Comic Books Grant Morrison: Talking All-Star Superman

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Okay, it’s not quite an “Ultimate” line for DC Comics. Rather, the All-Star in a line of books pairing DC’s A-list creators with the icons of its universe for stories that aren’t so…beholden to continuity.

The long-rumored line kicks off in June with Jim Lee returning to Gotham City to tell a Batman and Robin story (with a writer TBA) in All-Star Batman & Robin, with the Robin in this tale being Dick Grayson; and later in 2005, Grant Morrison and Frank Quitely will re-team for All-Star Superman.

The idea behind the All-Star line isn’t to spin the characters into a new timeline, a new universe, or a new continuity, rather, the creators are telling stories set in a contemporary period that both builds on the histories of the respective characters, while remaining fresh and as timeless as possible. These are books that DC hopes, will pull people in who maybe haven’t read a Batman or Superman story in a while – if ever. These versions and stories, while not “dumbed down” at all, will bring to the page what’s pure about the character – the iconic characteristics.

So – how do you do that with someone like Superman? Well, DC opted to do it by tapping Morrison, whose love of Superman is well known, pairing him with Quitely, and essentially saying, “Have fun.”

But why are we talking, when Morrison is never at a lack for words, especially about Superman.

Newsarama: First off Grant, how did this project come about? Was it offered from the start by DC, or was it something you went back to DC with after Marvel, that is, “If I come over there, I’m going to write Superman one day.”

Grant Morrison: While I was still on New X-Men, [DC VP, Editorial] Dan DiDio called and asked me if I'd like to come back to DC to work on a Superman project with an artist of my choice. I told him I'd be delighted but I was still on contract at the time and I wanted to wrap up my X-Men story before moving on. I'd planned to go back to DC anyway, to do the Seven Soldiers project and the Vertigo books, so it all worked out nicely. To be honest, my career plan in comics was to play smaller gigs again and disappear back into cool obscurity after the hot, bright lights of New X-Men and the mind-numbing scrum of the mainstream superhero frontline. Superman has changed that plan slightly.

NRAMA: Speaking of your time at Marvel, while you were there, you had some pretty sharp criticism for DC in regards to how Superman was being handled. In your view, and given that you’re the point man on a project like this, how does one get DC to the masses, so to speak?

GM: One gets DC to the masses by putting these books in manga format and making them available in every cinema, record store and bookshop. That's not my job, however. All I can do is make the stories as good as I can. All Frank can do is draw as well as he can. If we still can't sell well-written, well-drawn books at a time when everybody in the world is watching superhero movies and eating superhero cereals, it's because the pricing, format, promotion and availability of comic books is preventing us from cracking the glass ceiling. Comics used to be available everywhere.

NRAMA: For you, when it comes to divvying up your creative juices, why spend time with Superman? What is he for you that makes it worth your time to write him, when basically, you have many doors that are open in front of you?

GM: I like to work a lot and try lots of different things. This year I've written a screenplay for a Dreamworks movie, a 300-page novel, a game script for the upcoming Predator: Concrete Jungle release, 40 comic books, several movie pitches and a bunch of other stuff. I've even been asked to script a theme park thrill ride. I write non-stop, so devoting a little of that to writing Superman comics is sheer delight, as far as I'm concerned. I've waited for this chance all my life and I feel I owe Superman as much thought and effort as anything else I'm doing. I'm taking this assignment very seriously. I want to give Superman the power, dignity and relevance he deserves and I see it as a way of paying back the DC universe for all the pleasure it's given me over the years, as a fan and a creator.

NRAMA: That said then, whenever Superman comes up, the question of relevance is always close behind. You’re one of the most vocal and vigorous advocates of superheroes going, so what’s your spin on the relevance of Superman in a world that sees the miraculous every day, and lives in a world with problems and issues so complex that a man in a cape punching a bad person really wouldn’t start to make a dent in fixing things?

GM: My big breakthrough on Superman came in 1999 when I was working on my first proposal for the character. It was 2:00 in the morning and then-JLA editor Dan Raspler and I were sitting in that little Doctor Seuss-lookin' park outside the San Diego comic convention center, chewing the fat and trying to find a new angle on the Man of Steel. At that moment, I kid you not, two guys come walking across the rail tracks, and one of them is dressed in the best Superman suit I've seen. This guy looked fantastic as Superman - a cross between Chris Reeve and Billy Zane - so we asked him if he'd answer some questions for us which he did - in the character of Superman!!!

It was like a possession - I'd say to the guy, 'So how do you feel about Batman ?' and he'd come back with 'Well, Batman and I don't really see eye to eye on a lot of things. He's so hung up on the darkness in everyone's soul and I just don't see it that way...' and so on. He spoke to us for about an hour and a half, as Superman, then went back to his lonely Fortress at the YMCA or whatever - I met this guy a few more times but he never acted like Superman again - there's a picture on my website which shows him with me, Mark Waid and a couple of kids dressed as Superboy and Supergirl.

The thing that really hit me though, wasn't so much what he was saying as how he was sitting. The guy was perched on a bollard with one knee drawn up, chin resting on his arms. He looked totally relaxed...and I suddenly realized this was how Superman would sit. He wouldn't puff out his chest or posture heroically, he would be totally chilled. If nothing can hurt you, you can afford to be cool. A man like Superman would never have to tense against the cold; never have to flinch in the face of a blow. He would be completely laid back, un-tense. With this image of Superman relaxing on a cloud looking out for us all in my head, I rushed back to my hotel room and filled dozens of pages of my notebook with notes and drawings.

I don't think we need to 'make' Superman relevant. We just have to tell stories which resonate with human experience. The best Superman stories are fables about love, pride, shame, fear, death, friendship etc. We can all relate to those big issues. Superman stories should represent huge, basic human dramas and human emotions, played out on a larger than life canvas.

My first issue, for instance, has a new power for Superman and I thought I'd come up with something, well...not bad...then I just read - yesterday in fact - the story 'Superman's New Power' which appeared in Superman #125 from November 1958. And guess what Superman's new power was in the 'conservative' ‘50s. That's right - it's a teeny-tiny little Superman who shoots out from the palm of the big Superman's hand and does everything better than Superman himself, leaving the full-size Superman feeling redundant and worthless. Holy analysis, Batman! It's mindbending, brilliant and eerie work. This is what it would be like if ... wrote and directed the Superman movie and it's far from goofy or childish, it's genuinely affecting and slightly disturbing to read Superman saying stuff like 'Everyone's impressed except ME! Don't they understand how I feel -- playing second fiddle to a miniature duplicate of myself...a sort of SUPER-IMP?'

And people think I'M weird ? I %$%$^ wish I was weird like this! I wish pop comics today had the balls to be as poetic and poignant and truly 'all-ages' again, and a little less self-conscious. I feel a little ashamed for not even daring to think of a magnificent tiny Superman who makes the real Superman feel inadequate every time he springs from his hand. Those kinds of stories were like weird fever dreams and they sold millions and millions of copies every month.

So, I'm still not sure about 'realistic' comics. Sales are always crap when comics get 'realistic' and sales are particularly crap right now, considering the wide-ranging public acceptance of superhero stories in other media. So Frank and I are keeping modern sensibilities in mind while trying to make sure that each of our stories addresses some basic human fear or need in a big, colorful, comic book way. We hope to produce a collection of science fiction folk tales with Superman at the heart of them. I like to think of these stories as 'relevant' to the human condition although not necessarily relevant to the current headlines, if you see what I mean. The All Star Superman is intended to appeal to a wide audience of diverse people for a long time, like the Greek myths.

NRAMA: Well, let’s hit that angle – the mythology of Superman. You’ve alluded to it before - is Superman a Christ-like figure for the mythology of the 21st century?

GM: In the sense that he inspires us towards our best, yes.

I don't want anyone to think I'm taking this literally - it's not like Jimmy Olsen's one of the disciples or Lois is the Magdalene - and imagine how diffferent Western religion would be would be if God had rocketed Jesus to Earth so that he could escape the destruction of Heaven...brrr... Superman is very different from Christ in that here we have a powerful redeemer who doesn't feel the need to sacrifice himself to get his point across. No-one has to die in Superman's name. Superman is a much more progressive figure than Jesus, and as a science fiction savior rocketed to Earth from a world of wonder, I think the character has the potential to transcend his humble origins and say something quite profound to those of us living in the secular 21st century.

NRAMA: So let’s go with that - how do the people of the DCU see Superman? Is it, you feel an accurate mirror of our own world? When I was talking to Howard Chaykin recently, he pointed out that as a society, we don’t have a good track record in regard lifting up the different and special, and in fact, tend to persecute and fear the different. What makes Superman different in his world in that people love, adore, and look to him as a savior – at least in the literal sense of falling off of a building, or aliens invading?

GM: Howard is dead right. People in the real world hate achievers. They hate the good-looking, the well-off, the happy, the successful, whatever. They hate Howard and they hate me. I know they do - I've read the Newsarama message boards. Fortunately, we comics creators can commute to the DC Universe, where everything is different, including physics, morality and human nature. We can imagine a better world, with better people there, and voila! it appears before our very eyes.

In the DCU people like Superman. Not all people, but more people certainly than would like him if he lived on our own world. He'd be despised here, let’s face it, and everyone would be trying to kill him but the population of the DCU welcomes him and knows only he can deal with all those pesky alien invasions they get over there.

NRAMA: Since we’re hitting the broad issues about Superman, let’s go for the fun one as well - the Jules Feiffer viewpoint, which was recently adopted in Kill Bill v2 – in your view, is Clark the mask Superman wears, or is Superman Clark’s mask, or are both masks for the alien, Kal-el?

GM: I don't know, we could talk about this all day. 'Superman' is an act. 'Clark Kent' in Metropolis is also an act. There are actually two Kents, at least - one is a disguise, a bumbling, awkward mask for Superman. The other is the confident, strong, good-hearted Clark Kent who was raised by his surrogate Ma and Pa in Kansas and knows how to drive a tractor. I think he's the most 'real' of all. 'Kal El' is where he goes when he wants to escape from his human nature and see things from outside.

I don't know if it's a relevant question anyway. The Superman scene in Kill Bill was one of Tarantino's weakest moments in an otherwise brilliant movie and career. In the original version of his story, Superman spent a couple of years on Krypton, arrived on Earth with baby superpowers and was raised by humans. In those circumstances, I think he'd possibly have more of an alien outlook. In the Byrne revision, he grew up completely human then developed superpowers at puberty, thereby becoming an alien at a very difficult time in any young man's life. In that version, I imagine he'd have a more human outlook.

Frank and I have our own way of integrating all the previous takes but we don't dwell on the origin or the early years, so it doesn't really affect what we're doing. Our story catches up with Superman as he is now. Everybody knows the basics anyway, so we'd rather do something new.

Of course, one way of looking at 'Superman' is that Clark wears the costume because it makes him faintly ridiculous and non-threatening. He's colorful like a circus strongman. And that costume is like the flag of a one man country that the whole world can recognize and trust.

NRAMA: Okay – moving to the story a little more, and away from the college classroom. Explain to me the “setting” for lack of a better word of your and Frank’s story, the All-Star conceit – this isn’t set squarely and tightly in DCU continuity, is it? What kind of freedom do you have here? For instance, are Clark and Lois married?

GM: You'll have to wait and see. Dan wanted this to be 'Original' Superman, ‘Classic’ Superman basically - more like a movie or the animated version where the set-ups are the familiar ones most people know - i.e. Lois doesn't realize Clark is Superman, Jimmy Olsen is a cub reporter etc. Back in 1999, however, one of the lynchpins of my Superman 2000 pitch was to make the married Superman scenario work as well as the previous Lois/Clark/Superman triangle had. Mark Waid and I argued over this at length, believe me, with Waid - that arch iconcoclast - coming down, for a change, on the side of tradition. With All Star Superman, I think I've come up with a whole new approach to the Lois, Clark and Superman too relationship, so I'll leave it at that until you see how it plays out in the books.

NRAMA: But speaking of the setting and loosened restrictions, how are you and Frank taking advantage of that? For example, is this going as far to be something you could call your “dream” Superman story, damn the details?

GM: We're using the leeway the All-Star concept gives us to take the best elements from every era of Superman and use them to build a whole new world and direction for the character. I'm certainly looking at this as my definitive statement. After Superman, I have no mainstream comics work lined up.

NRAMA: Looking at is as your definitive statement, in the case of this story, what has to be there, in your view for it to be a Superman story? What’s unshakeable in your view of the mythos? Conversely, is there anything that can be scuttled without, in your view, any loss to the character and overall myth?

GM: Well, we deal with the entire origin sequence using four panels on page one of our first issue, in a way I think fans will find amusing. My only rule with Superman is that he does not kill. That's the essential core. He always finds a way to solve every single problem without anyone being hurt.

NRAMA: Fair enough. Looking at the artistic side of things, how did you end up with Frank on the project? Was he in on it from the beginning, or did you pick from a handful of artists?

GM: Superman's the best superhero, Frank's the best artist. It had to be him.

He also has a very good head start and he's churning out pages these days now that his sciatica problem's out of the way. He's had no trouble delivering artwork for We3 and he's still faster than some, that's for sure. I can assure fans that there will be no fill-in artists on this book. It's me and Frank for 12 full issues. That's the deal, the whole deal and nothing but.

NRAMA: That said, what do you feel Frank brings to the table that suits both your view of Superman and the story you want to tell?

GM: I could go on all day about how brilliant he is and have on many occasions.

I have a very specific visual style in mind - a kind of Jules Feiffer, Will Eisner, Jack Davis take on our hero and on the action in around the Daily Planet in particular. I'm looking for an exaggerated, emotive approach inspired by the melodramatic gestures of Jewish theater. Vin [Frank] is the only artist who can pull off the kind of subtlety it takes to capture the clumsy, awkward, caffeine-driven buzz of Metropolis, the City of Tomorrow, with its hyperscrapers and cargo blimps and cranky machines, or the balletic movements and interactions of the Planet staff, each with his or her own special body language.

My scripts call for a lot of near-animation of characters in the script because I know Frank can pull it off and make it move. This will be a new but weirdly-appropriate look for Superman and his world, I think. I also think this will be the first time the Clark Kent disguise has made sense visually. Frank draws the transition between Clark and Superman like it's Jekyll and Hyde. Clark doesn't just take off his glasses, his entire posture and attitude changes too. It's going to look great.

NRAMA: As with your collaboration on We3, how much does having Frank on the project affect what and how you will write? For example, does it free you more in a sense, in that you know him so well, you won’t have to worry if the artist “gets it” in regards to your script?

GM: That’s it exactly. I can trust him implicitly to realize my most abstract ideas, simple as that. Some of the 'digital space' and 'pop out' effects we created for We3 might be developed further but this is a very different project and we'll probably approach the storytelling in a fresh way.

NRAMA: Winding things down a bit, let’s revisit the story for a moment. Superman has been around for over 65 years now. It’s wildly hard to find aspects of a story that would be wholly original. Do you even try to find something that no one has ever done with the character, or does madness lie in that direction?

GM: Every time I think I've come up with some brilliant new idea that's never been done before, I find that someone's already done something a little bit like it back in 1957, so I've stopped bothering about anything other than telling my own story in my own way.

NRAMA: Where did your story come from for you? Was it something that you’d been carrying for a while, say, since the aborted installation of you and other creators as the teams on the Superman books that you mentioned earlier, or is this something that has come up since that time?

GM: There are a few little bits and pieces left over from the aborted Superman 2000 pitch which I came up with but this is something new and most of this material was put together over the last two years. My comics tend to be inspired by whatever's going on in my life and in the world at the time and Superman is no exception.

NRAMA: Speaking of the last time you worked with the character, during your JLA run – is this a different story now than it would have been had you written it then?

GM: It's very different. Comic books have changed and my ideas are constantly evolving and changing with the times. The best Superman idea I ever had, I gave to Mark Millar for the conclusion of Red Son, so I've been forced to try even harder to do something even better here.

NRAMA: Let’s wind things up with a general tease – the buzzword that always comes up with you is that you’re looking to load every page with mad ideas. So what are some of the ideas you’ve got coming up in this story? Will we see classic villains? New enemies? New worlds? Standbys of the mythology such as the Fortress of Solitude, Kandor, the Phantom Zone, etc, or a branch in a new direction?

GM: The first issue '”Faster…” starts with Superman attempting to rescue the first manned spaced mission to the sun! An overdose of solar radiation triggers a fatal chain reaction in his cell structure, P.R.O.J.E.C.T. specialists race to create a new Superman and...well, you'll have to wait and see.

The Fortress appears in issue #2, stuffed with a ton of new toys and gets haunted by the bandaged ghost of the Unknown Superman of 4500 AD. The Kandorians finally get out of that bottle. Superman gets a new power. Clark Kent winds up sharing a prison cell with Lex Luthor in issue #5. The Bizarro Cube Earth invades our world in an epic 2-part adventure (no 'decompression' here!) and we're recasting the Bizarros as a frightening, unstoppable zombie-plague style menace. Bizarro Jor-El and the Bizarro JLA turn up in the second part of that story too. What else? We meet Earth's replacement Superman and Clark Kent takes on a new superhero identity...Ten of the 12 issues are complete short stories in 22 pages, so lots of stuff happens. And it all links together as a maxi-arc or whatever they call them these days, entitled 'The 12 Labors of Superman'.

Superman's Rogues Gallery is pretty weak, so I've tried to add some characters I think might enhance the mix. Solaris, the Tyrant Sun from the DC 1 Million series gets a makeover and a return visit, and I figured Superman could use a 'Subhuman' counterpart, so I've created Krull, an evolved dinosaur dictator who rules a monstrous civilization at the center of the earth. He's only in the story for a few pages but the concept is strong and feels like one that could be used again. Then there's the Abominable Snowman, a tragic scientist who's a bit like a refrigerated Incredible Hulk and turns up for a couple of pages. Superman needs some good tough monsters to fight, so I've tried to think along those lines. In most cases, the villains only get walk-on roles in this one, however. Overall, the series is more about Superman's relationships with his friends and with the world than anything else.

People know my stuff and I'm sure they can guess what to expect. It's going to be big, bold sci-fi Superman for 12 issues.

NRAMA: At the end of the day, what goals have you set for yourself with this story?

GM: To be worthy of Superman.

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The idea behind the All-Star line isn’t to spin the characters into a new timeline, a new universe, or a new continuity, rather, the creators are telling stories set in a contemporary period that both builds on the histories of the respective characters, while remaining fresh and as timeless as possible.

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Frank and I have our own way of integrating all the previous takes but we don't dwell on the origin or the early years, so it doesn't really affect what we're doing. Our story catches up with Superman as he is now. Everybody knows the basics anyway, so we'd rather do something new.

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I'm Not Mister Mxypltk said:


Fuck, where's MOTA? I wanna shove this in his face... I was whining like a little bitch about how this is the way to go like a year ago...

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thedoctor said:
I think this is DC trying to appease their Silver Age fans without having to create more continuity. I think it'll work (as I've been under the impression for a while that it's something they need to do) and will give Morrie's book a shot. Might pick up Lee's depending on who's writing.

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whomod said:

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thedoctor said:
I think this is DC trying to appease their Silver Age fans without having to create more continuity. I think it'll work (as I've been under the impression for a while that it's something they need to do) and will give Morrie's book a shot. Might pick up Lee's depending on who's writing.

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While I on the other hand think this is DC yet again trying to do everything half-assed.

Why is it that every time they have the opportunity, they punk out on actually starting a fresh new continuity?

What this sounds to me sounds suspiciously like 'Legends of the Dark Knight', Elseworlds, or one of the aforementioned Dini/Ross tabloid comics.

Now why would I want to bother with one-off stories that matter not to the character or his *ahem* continuity.

Not that I want it to remain firmly in the present continuty either, mind you. I'd rather they actually do a real Ultimate style reboot and not waste time doing endless one-off stories that aern't grounded in anything but the creators whims.

As i said, half assed.

No..., cowardly half-assed.

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whomod said:

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thedoctor said:
I think this is DC trying to appease their Silver Age fans without having to create more continuity. I think it'll work (as I've been under the impression for a while that it's something they need to do) and will give Morrie's book a shot. Might pick up Lee's depending on who's writing.

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While I on the other hand think this is DC yet again trying to do everything half-assed.

Why is it that every time they have the opportunity, they punk out on actually starting a fresh new continuity?

What this sounds to me sounds suspiciously like 'Legends of the Dark Knight', Elseworlds, or one of the aforementioned Dini/Ross tabloid comics.

Now why would I want to bother with one-off stories that matter not to the character or his *ahem* continuity.

Not that I want it to remain firmly in the present continuty either, mind you. I'd rather they actually do a real Ultimate style reboot and not waste time doing endless one-off stories that aern't grounded in anything but the creators whims.

As i said, half assed.

No..., cowardly half-assed.

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thedoctor said:
Maybe you won't buy one off stories, but there is a shitload of people out there who will. This is DC directly responding to a fanbase (much like Rebirth) and giving them what they want without turning their backs on another fanbase (those who've started reading comics in the past twenty years).

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the G-man said:
whomod, perhaps the "bloody point" is that, in the end, more people LIKE the past 35 years (more like 65, but who's counting) of Superman history than don't.

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the G-man said:
whomod, perhaps the "bloody point" is that, in the end, more people LIKE the past 35 years (more like 65, but who's counting) of Superman history than don't.

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whomod said:
I was referring of course to the Silver Age.

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the G-man said:


Well, it's 2004 now. Soon to be 2005.

Thirty five years ago would be approximately 1970.

I'd say the silver age was pretty much over by then.

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And because of this approximation you are completely unable to understand what I'm saying?

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Joe Mama said:
For the record, I generally could give a shit less about Superman - didn't read the Death Of storyline, didn't read Man Of Steel, and haven't picked up a Superman title with any consistency since "Whatever Happened To The Man Of Tomorrow?". But I have been reading the Azzarello/Lee storyline and I would pick up a Morrison/Quitely story.

Take it how you will, it's my two cenrs...

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I'm Not Mister Mxypltk said:

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Frank and I have our own way of integrating all the previous takes but we don't dwell on the origin or the early years, so it doesn't really affect what we're doing. Our story catches up with Superman as he is now. Everybody knows the basics anyway, so we'd rather do something new.

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Now that's what I'm fucking talking about. Integrate and move on at the same time. The only way to do something worth reading in superhero comics is accepting the genre's past AND moving forward. Examples: Madman, Animalman. And by accept the past I don't mean it in the anal retentive continuity way: I mean accepting what the character has actually been, in real life, as an icon, through the years. A continuity bigger than all continuities, more real, and, for once, actually important to real people.

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King Krypton said:
They tried this with Birthright last year, remember? A combination of DC's ineptitude and anal-retentive continuity puritanism sank the series like a boulder in quicksand.

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Well, color me Catwoman. I thought it was just bad writing .

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Dave said:
Yep.

Keep the continuity books for the continuity sluts. Give innovation a chance in a new line.

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the G-man said:
Well, it's 2004 now. Soon to be 2005.

Thirty five years ago would be approximately 1970.

I'd say the silver age was pretty much over by then.

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whomod said:

And because of this approximation you are completely unable to understand what I'm saying?

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Prometheus said:
All-Star for those who want something different.

Mainstream titles for the continuity-leaning fans.

Everyone gets their choice.

Doesn't sound bad to me...

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