#37236
2003-11-30 11:11 PM
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My opinion on this trade is mixed because I realize how much the Raptors needed secondary scoring behind Vince Carter but I hate the fact they traded both Antonio Davis and Jerome Williams! We gave up way too much on the boards, and it's a lot harder to score in the NBA when you're not getting a second chance from a rebound. Everybody knows that ball possession is key to winning games and I'm not too keen about not having a rebounding presence around the glass. Now I know being in the East, that most of the teams don't have a big presence around the glass, and that the Raptors new coach Kevin O'Neil had a lot of success with the Knicks and Pistons (two smaller but strong defensive teams that used speed in transition to run a full court pressure offence) but I still think that if they were going to trade AD that they should have kept Jerome Williams.
What's your opinion on this trade?
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#37237
2003-11-30 11:19 PM
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#37238
2003-11-30 11:38 PM
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Well, yes, they did lose Antonio Davis and Jerome Williams, but they also got Donyell Marshall(an excellent rebounder and a very versatile scorer) and Lonny Baxter(big body who will hustle and clog lanes). Baxter isn't really of center height, but in the east that doesn't matter a whole lot. I doubt he'll be given huge minutes, anyway, but as a garbage guy, he can thrive.
I loved the JYD, so I'm sad to see him leave Toronto. Personally, I would have kept him and traded Davis and Jeffries for Rose(if that were possible). However, this does allow Dallas area native Chris Bosh to permanently step into the starting lineup. He won't sacrifice himself as much as Jerome Williams did, but in a few years he could easily be a double-double guy, and one of the more underrated aspects of his game is his ability to use those long arms to block shots(averaging 1.7 a game right now).
Jalen Rose eats up a considerable amount of cap space, but by my calculation, Toronto actually comes up losing salary with this trade, so that eliminates that angle of discontent.
Bottom line: 5 games with 66 or fewer points in the first 16 games of the season isn't going to get it done. Period.
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#37239
2003-11-30 11:39 PM
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i liked tk's answer better.
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#37240
2003-12-01 1:18 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Animalman:
Well, yes, they did lose Antonio Davis and Jerome Williams, but they also got Donyell Marshall(an excellent rebounder and a very versatile scorer) and Lonny Baxter(big body who will hustle and clog lanes). Baxter isn't really of center height, but in the east that doesn't matter a whole lot. I doubt he'll be given huge minutes, anyway, but as a garbage guy, he can thrive.
I loved the JYD, so I'm sad to see him leave Toronto. Personally, I would have kept him and traded Davis and Jeffries for Rose(if that were possible). However, this does allow Dallas area native Chris Bosh to permanently step into the starting lineup. He won't sacrifice himself as much as Jerome Williams did, but in a few years he could easily be a double-double guy, and one of the more underrated aspects of his game is his ability to use those long arms to block shots(averaging 1.7 a game right now).
Jalen Rose eats up a considerable amount of cap space, but by my calculation, Toronto actually comes up losing salary with this trade, so that eliminates that angle of discontent.
Bottom line: 5 games with 66 or fewer points in the first 16 games of the season isn't going to get it done. Period.
I totally agree, especially that last statement, but I guess I'm just sick and tired of the rebuilding projects every three to four years. Especially this time because MLSE (the guys that own the Raptors and Maple Leafs) have lots of money and could pay the penalty for going over the cap. It's just that they spend all their money on the Maple Leafs because we haven't won a Stanley Cup since 1967 (and that's way too long between championships especially for us fans here in Hockey Central)
Anyway, Kevin O'Neil preaches team rebounding and defence first so maybe he'll try and get the Raptors to pick up the slack that way. But they're still trying to trade Mo'Peterson so I guess they'll try and pick up another big body.
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#37241
2003-12-01 4:10 AM
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I was surprised the Raptors gave up both Williams AND Davis. That's two PF's who can easily rank in the top ten in rebounding. Bosh barely weight 210. He can get pushed around by the Karl Malones-Jermaine O'neal's-Chris Webber's of the league. I imagine it's more salary cap reasons than anything else. But considering the problems the Raptors have had scoring they had to do this deal.
I'd love to see either Davis or Williams go to Houston later on. Yao Ming needs a good PF behind him. Mo Taylor ain't it.
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#37242
2003-12-01 3:11 PM
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Kelvin Cato is Ming's power forward. And, in a few years, when he's ready, Malik Badiane will be. Maurice Taylor isn't a banger, but he's a great bench player who can score at will in the post. Before his injury, Taylor was one of the rising stars in the NBA.
Bosh isn't ready to bang around with the big boys quite yet, but he is just a rookie. He could still grab 7 or 8 a game this year and be fine. After all, you can't teach size.
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#37243
2003-12-01 11:40 PM
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Cato is such a dissapointment. He should be a PJ Brown clone but instead he's more like a Scot Pollard clone. He has his moments, but if I was the Rockets I'd want a PF in the mold of Maurice Lucas who wouldn't be afraid to put a center on their ass if they were beating up on Yao. Word is Yao is too respectful of his opponents and the Rockets want him to get a bit of a mean streak in him, but that isn't his nature.
The Sonics were in a bidding war for Taylor when he was a free agent from the Clippers. They backed out at the last minute when Brent Barry reported from friends on the Clippers that Taylor's work habits were questionable at best.
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#37244
2003-12-01 11:59 PM
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Wow, that's pot calling the kettle black.
Kelvin Cato may not have progressed into a dominant power forward, but he wasn't a lottery pick. He's a bruiser, and he has made(and will make) a decent career as just that. In the few minutes he's gotten, he's been productive as a rebounder and shot blocker. The comparison to Maurice Lucas is quite apt, actually, I see Ming/Cato as the next Walton/Lucas tandem(infact Walton has even said that). Under the wing of Jeff Van Gundy and Patrick Ewing, he could be crucial to the Houston Rockets' future success.
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#37245
2003-12-02 11:18 PM
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As I expected, Donyell Marshall made an instant impact with the Raptors. 27 points, 9 boards, 4 blocks. Though Rose wasn't as effective(3-10 from the field with 6 points), the new additions took considerable pressure off Vince Carter, who had 12 assists, a career high. Best of all, the Raptors won, beating a good Philadelphia team, 95-88. It's only the fourth time all year Toronto has reached 90 points, and it came on a night where Bosh and Rose were shooting poorly.
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#37246
2003-12-02 11:33 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Animalman:
As I expected, Donyell Marshall made an instant impact with the Raptors. 27 points, 9 boards, 4 blocks. Though Rose wasn't as effective(3-10 from the field with 6 points), the new additions took considerable pressure off Vince Carter, who had 12 assists, a career high. Best of all, the Raptors won, beating a good Philadelphia team, 95-88. It's only the fourth time all year Toronto has reached 90 points, and it came on a night where Bosh and Rose were shooting poorly.
Oh yeah, you called it. All three new comers contributed strong games. Not only that, but working them into the line-up has opened up other spots on the floor for VC, Alvin Williams, and Mo'Pete. Chris Bosh got into foul trouble early though (because of his lack of weight the thicker players were pushing him off his position) but every game this kid impresses me with his "no nonsense" attitude, extreme focus and poise, and his willingness to be coached. This kid really wants to improve and make a name for himself in this league. This guy ain't no Marcus Camby.
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#37247
2003-12-03 1:05 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Animalman:
Wow, that's pot calling the kettle black.
Kelvin Cato may not have progressed into a dominant power forward, but he wasn't a lottery pick. He's a bruiser, and he has made(and will make) a decent career as just that. In the few minutes he's gotten, he's been productive as a rebounder and shot blocker. The comparison to Maurice Lucas is quite apt, actually, I see Ming/Cato as the next Walton/Lucas tandem(infact Walton has even said that). Under the wing of Jeff Van Gundy and Patrick Ewing, he could be crucial to the Houston Rockets' future success.
I think that's a HUGE stretch comparing Cato to Maurice Lucas. Cato averaged 4.5 points and 5.9 rebounds in 17.1 minutes a game. His career averages are 5.5 and 5.4.
In a 14 year career Mo Luke averaged 14.4 points and 8.8 rebounds. At age 29, the same age Cato is now, he averaged 16.5 points and 10.4 rebounds for Phoenix.
Cato's found his niche right now without the spotlight on him, but my point is a "thug" PF would benefit Yao Ming right now, IMO.
Be right back. Alvin Williams is still out on the waiver of my fantasy league. Gonna dump Howard Eisley for him now that AW has guys to pass to!!!
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#37248
2003-12-03 3:26 AM
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I wouldn't compare the two yet. I said I thought they could be the next Lucas/Walton, not that they are now. Obviously, Maurice Lucas was a great player, and had a long and fruitful career. Cato, though off to a slow start, still has a good deal left in his tank, in my opinion. I think Kelvin Cato is a "thug"(on the court, at least, he might be a nice guy off it), and compliments Yao very well. Keep in mind, this is the first time in his career that he's averaged more than 25 minutes a game.
His point production will probably never be what Lucas's was. However, he can rebound, he can block shots, and he's not afraid to step up and make anybody who comes in his lane pay the price. He'll keep Yao out of foul trouble, just like Lucas did for Walton.
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#37249
2003-12-04 5:11 AM
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Sure, but you can't deny someone like Antonio Davis would be a step up. I think Cato is better off the bench. Davis has been voted to the All Star Game before as well. But if Houston acquired Davis they'd probably have to give up Cato or Taylor.
Actually, they might not mind giving up Taylor for budgetary reasons.
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#37250
2003-12-06 1:24 AM
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Toronto won their 3rd straight tonight, beating Atlanta. Another 95+ night. That's practically unheard of in the East...
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#37251
2003-12-06 3:27 AM
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The Falcons, the Hawks. Sucks being in Atlanta right now. And Maddux might be leaving the Braves.
At least Vick's back now. But for what? I bet Fratello or Rivers replaces Stotts by next year.
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#37252
2003-12-06 3:12 PM
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I wouldn't be surprised if Maddox went back to Chicago, where he began his career. I'm not really worried about the Braves though, they have one of the best scouting programs in baseball, and, as usual, their farm system is stocked. That all being said, it has to be somewhat disconcerting that they've lost Millwood, Glavine and perhaps Maddox, all in 2 years.
Falcons need to can Dan Reeves(who I've never been a fan of). Vick or no Vick, that team still had enough talent to compete for the playoffs. If the Eagles could survive McNabb's absence last year, the Falcons should have been able to survive Vick's.
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#37253
2003-12-06 3:19 PM
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Speaking of the Hawks, I heard Terry is being wooed by Knicks management...
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#37254
2003-12-07 4:01 AM
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Who are the Knicks going to trade for him?
I'd stay in Atlanta if I was Terry. Boris Diaw is the perfect compliment for him, a big point guard that allows Terry to start at the 2 and shoot.
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#37255
2003-12-07 7:47 PM
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4 in a row! Rose 18pts 10assts, Vince 30pts. Marshall's averaging 19ppg since the trade and the Raptors improve to 12-8. Life is now officially good. ![[biiiig grin]](images/icons/grin.gif)
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#37256
2003-12-08 3:38 AM
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They don't have to rely on just their backcourt now. If they brought in these players when Wilkens was coach, he'd still be there.
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