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cobra kai 15000+ posts
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cobra kai 15000+ posts
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Quote:
THE Bastard said:
The question is: Which Bat-Man story do you guys find to THE definitive tale? Is it DKR or is it Year One? Maybe some other one....
For me, I'd have to say DKR. It truly shows the facist, crazed man that is Bruce Wayne. I like all the moments with the supporting cast...especially Alfred. The problem is, it started that whole "Bat-Man can beat anyone with prep time" that continues on to this day. Still, it was really cool seeing Bats hand Supes his ass and then check out.
I'm looking forward to the sequel but, I think it may be a letdown. How can it compare to all the hype surrounding it AND live up to the first story? It's kinda like Jordan coming back (if he ever makes up his mind to do so)...I'll be right there watching his first game but, he'll never be as good as the first time. It'll only serve to diminish his legacy.
Sometimes, you should leave well enough alone.
Quote:
ROY BATTY said:
As for Favourite Bat-story, DKR gets it but Year 1 best encapulates a great Bat-adventure!
i LOVE the dark knight returns. absolutly an incredible book, with a great story. even if it werent batman as the star, it'd be an excellent tale.
its definitly, by far and away, my favorite batman story. is it the definitive story, tho? (and, there is a difference) maybe not.
while i do think that its the most in-continuity-out-of-continuity book out there, its still something that never happened. and referencing this book in any "batman vs ___" debate always brings up the issue that its a mute point -- its a future tale that never happened.
batman couldnt fly, superman didnt have "truth lasers"  and the joker wasnt a girl... conversly, everything in this book held true to the existing characters, so it definitly could happen in any of the current, monthly books (how frickin cool would that be??). however, its still about a 55 year old batman, which i think sorta removes it from possibly being the definitive tale.
year one, on the other hand, did happen in our continuity. and, i think that book tells the definitive tale. as my second all time favorite book, this story illustrates beautifully everything about batman. his relationship with the enemies, the good guys, bruce wayne, the commish, and his own drive/desire.
it showed batman's incredible detective skills, his mastery of fighting ability, his strength, his cool ass gadgets, and also displayed how successful just the simple jump-shirt and undies suit could be. plus, with fantastic art (where is dave mazz now, and why isnt he doing det.comics issues?!?!), everything was all the more iconic.
and, as a sub-plot bonus, we get to see what is, perhaps, the best commish gordon story in existance.
incredible book.
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Joined: Oct 2000
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To me, the definitive Batman Story would have to be Detective #320. The cover says it all...  What brilliance! What Daring-Do! They don't make comics like this anymore...*sigh*
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Joined: Apr 2001
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quote:
Originally posted by Rob Kamphausen:
and, as a sub-plot bonus, we get to see what is, perhaps, the best commish gordon story in existance.
Naw, I think the best commish story would have to be Officer Down. That part where he just laid there in bed doing nothing... priceless.
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Joined: Jan 2001
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Back in my youth, I was a big fan of Untold Legend of the Batman. Aparo art, and Bruce suffering from a mental disturbance (trying to kill himself), which was a bit novel for back then.
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Public Enemy #4 4000+ posts
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Public Enemy #4 4000+ posts
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Yeah, I liked that mini as well...I've been trying to find some mint copies but, I keep forgetting to look for them at recent cons. My originals are pretty dogged.
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1. You do not talk about snarf. 7500+ posts
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1. You do not talk about snarf. 7500+ posts
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I first read Untold Legend of Batman in a paperback sized book!
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Joined: May 2003
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Officially "too old for this shit" 15000+ posts
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The definitive Batman story is "There is No Hope in Crime Alley" by Denny O'Neill
Too bad its been retconned out of existence.
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"The Origin of Batman," by Bob Kane and Bill Finger with Lew Sayre Schwartz, 1947. Everything Batman ever was and ever will be was encapsulated in that story.
Alas, it's been scrapped, right along with every positive character trait Batman ever had....
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You're kind of a downer you know that? 
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Devin Grayson (pre-Nightwing) wrote a lot of really great Batman stories. Her Gotham Knights stories before Bruce Wayne: Murderer were excellent.
Bow ties are coool.
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Quote:
r3x29yz4a said:
Devin Grayson (pre-Nightwing) wrote a lot of really great Batman stories. Her Gotham Knights stories before Bruce Wayne: Murderer were excellent.
Must...control...urge....to....vomit.
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have you actually read them. Her Gotham Knights stories were really good. She wrote good character-based stories. Its only a shame her Nightwing work has been such a letdown.
Bow ties are coool.
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She's terrible.
Her idea of characterization is to have other characters/narrators TELL us what Batman's characterization is supposed to be and, to make matters worse, quite often they are wrong.
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She showed Batman as a conflicted man who, while he has trouble relating on a personal level, does make the effort to be human. She had a lot of stories that greatly analyzed Batman and made him more 3-dimensional than any other writer I've read. Instead of focusing on Batman's training and gadgets she focused on his "family" and they view him.
Bow ties are coool.
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but then again, I'd expect a conservative to hate a lesbian writer.
Zing!
Bow ties are coool.
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Actually, she's bisexual.
And, your other comments are a big part of why I don't like her writing. She never "showed" Batman "as a conflicted man who, while he has trouble relating on a personal level."
Instead, she'd write a story that showed, for example, Huntress watching Batman in action and TELLING us, though her narration, "Batman is a conflicted man who, while he has trouble relating on a personal level." A good writer shows that, she doesn't tell it.
Compare Greyson with, for example, classic Bat writer Denny O'Neil, circa 1970.
We all knew O'Neill's Batman was a "conflicted man who has trouble on a personal level." But it was in the action and the dialogue. And while, admittedly, O'Neill still suffered from the some of the flaws of the era, his writing was still better at conveying Batman's personality (in fact, more or less CREATING the personality that Greyson wrote her theses masquerading as stories about) approx 30 years before the allegedly more sophisticated Greyson came on the scene.
Nope, sorry, Greyson is a hack, Was a hack and will be a hack.
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1. You do not talk about snarf. 7500+ posts
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Quote:
r3x29yz4a said:
but then again, I'd expect a conservative to hate a lesbian writer.
Zing!
I've just been converted to a Devin Fan - even after that attrocious Ghost Rider mini!
Me No Rikey Rob, he's a banana queer!
I shit on Hogan!
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Joined: Oct 2000
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1. You do not talk about snarf. 7500+ posts
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Quote:
the G-man said:
Actually, she's bisexual.
Even better!
Me No Rikey Rob, he's a banana queer!
I shit on Hogan!
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Yeah, but last I knew she was dating...Mark Waid. 
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We already are 15000+ posts
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We already are 15000+ posts
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I'd like to see him get laid.......that would be definitive.
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Quote:
the G-man said:
Yeah, but last I knew she was dating...Mark Waid.
Leave it to a conservative to bring up oral sex on the job...and make it look like a bad thing.
Bow ties are coool.
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Quote:
the G-man said:
Yeah, but last I knew she was dating...Mark Waid.
Quote:
r3x29yz4a said:
Leave it to a conservative to bring up oral sex on the job...and make it look like a bad thing.
No, oral sex with MARK WAID is a bad thing. I think both political philosophies can agree to that.
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Finally a bipartisan agreement.
Bow ties are coool.
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Quote:
Steve T said:
You're kind of a downer you know that?
Hey, the last Batman story I liked was Child of Dreams by Kia Asamiya and Max Allan Collins. That story captured the heart and soul of the Batman that I grew up enjoying (the Batman of 1940-1956 and 1964-1986), and a lot of the old Batman zing that Bob and Bill created in the Golden Age. (I loved Trinity, but that was much more of a Superman story.)
Last edited by King Krypton; 2005-01-20 1:25 AM.
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I also liked "Child of Dreams" It wasn't perfect but it had a lot of the classic Batman feel.
I wouldn't call it the last Batman story I liked, however.
For about ten years, Ty Templeton was writing a great, Paul Diniesque Batman in the "adventures" series. In fact, I'd go out on a limb and say that, had DC been smart enough to put Ty on "regular" Bat book and pair him with a mainstream artist, we'd be talking about Ty the way we talk about Finger, O'Neill. Englehart and (most of us) Miller.
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Award-Winning Author 10000+ posts
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I agree. I truly feel Ty is probably one of the most underrated talents in comics.
Knutreturns said: Spoken like the true Greatest RDCW Champ!
All hail King Snarf!
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