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quote:
Originally posted by Prometheus:
quote:
Originally posted by D. McDonagh:
So we'll see Jordan bending Pieface over an engine housing and sodomising him roughly quite soon then?
Let joy be unconfined.
I think you're mistaking Morrison for Mark Millar...
You knew that'd get a thumbs up from me...
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quote:
Originally posted by D. McDonagh:
So we'll see Jordan bending Pieface over an engine housing and sodomising him roughly quite soon then?
Let joy be unconfined.
I personally think he'll go with Carol Ferris in black vinyl, and the "Star Sapphire" becoming some sort of insertable sex toy.
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I wasn;t much on Morrison until I read his Animal Man run.
If he could still pull that kind of creativity off, I'd read him writing even Elongated Man!
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Damn, I had got Morrison and his mini me sidekick confused. How embarrassing.
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quote:
Originally posted by Prometheus:
quote:
Originally posted by D. McDonagh:
So we'll see Jordan bending Pieface over an engine housing and sodomising him roughly quite soon then?
Let joy be unconfined.
I think you're mistaking Morrison for Mark Millar...
don't be silly. we all know that its Morrison that writes Millars stories.
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quote:
Originally posted by Stupid Dogg:
don't be silly. we all know that its Morrison that writes Millars stories.
Bite your tongue.
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I thought Morrison and Bendis were one and the same????
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quote:
Originally posted by Animalman:
Bite your tongue.
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From Morrison himself in an interview with the Pulse. quote:
Oh and by the way, contrary to rumors, I am NOT writing any form of Green Lantern comic at the moment or in the near future. The internet rumor guys who report this kind of stuff are very enthusiastic, but they have no reliable sources of information so please be wary and take everything you read about me online with a very large grain of salt.
Anyway ... I much prefer my pal, the Kyle Rayner Lantern to the colorless Hal Jordan incarnation, so I wouldn't be the right fit for the nostalgia audience. I dislike the purists' hushed devotion to Hal and Ollie and all those creepy old guys. Remember in the '90s when people tried new things in comics all the time? New Green Arrow, new Flash, new Green Lantern ... what happened? The Kyle Rayner, Green Lantern, under Ron Marz was one of DCs best sellers in the '90s. Were people more open to novelty then?
I think so.
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I guess everyone has their faults.
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That was to be expected. If he had written Hal Jordan, it wouldn't have been the Jordan we all know. Kyle Rayner fits better to Morrison's style.
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A character is only as "colorless" as the writer dictating it. I would have thought Grant, of all people, would realize that, given his contributions to my namesake.
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The guy doesn't like the character, so what? If he gave Hal the Morrison treatment it'd turn into a completely different character, I'm sure.
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I know, I'm just saying. He doesn't have to "like" or "dislike" anybody.
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Grant just doesn't understand the controversey surrounding the Kyle vs. Hal debate. To him, it's Kyle in a landslide. If you look at his JLA run he had a lot of fun writing Kyle. Not unlike how John Byrne ended up using the She-Hulk more than he thought he would when she replaced the Thing after the Secret Wars. It was only supposed to be for 6-8 issues but Byrne ended up liking She-Hulk so much that Marvel ended up giving the Thing his own book for awhile.
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I didn't get the impression that Morrison liked Kyle at all from his JLA run. I think he tried to use him in interesting ways, because he's a great writer, but for the most part, he showed how inexperienced and unequiped Kyle was for the big battles. I think he eloquently demonstrated just how poorly constructed Kyle is as a character.
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The fact that he's inexperienced doesn't mean he's poorly constructed as a character. I think Morrison found him fun to write precisely because of that. He was the only rookie in the team. That also made a great interaction with Flash, since he's the only one there that knows what's it like to be a young rookie.
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Inexperience may not be, but as I said, Kyle was unequipped, physically, mentally and emotionally, to take on the villains the JLA normally deals with.
You can't just hand anybody a power ring and expect them to be able to fight aliens and super powered mutants.
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quote:
Originally posted by Animalman:
Inexperience may not be, but as I said, Kyle was unequipped, physically, mentally and emotionally, to take on the villains the JLA normally deals with.
You can't just hand anybody a power ring and expect them to be able to fight aliens and super powered mutants.
Yeah,like G'Nort or Arisia were really well equipped to be a GL. ![[yuh huh]](images/icons/rolleyes.gif)
Kyle has done just fine as a GL and as a member of the JLA.
One more thing for I disappear....You really should apply the views expressed in your signature to yourself buddy.
Ciao!
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quote:
Originally posted by Gladiator X:
Yeah,like G'Nort or Arisia were really well equipped to be a GL.
G'Nort was nothing more than a punchline, and for that he was well qualified. Arisia was just Hal's love interest, and a 2nd tier GL, too.
Kyle is suppose to be one of the galaxies greatest heroes.
quote:
Kyle has done just fine as a GL and as a member of the JLA.
...so? That's like saying Stone Cold Steve Austin was a good wrestler because he was the WWE champion. He's as good as the writers want him to be, regardless of how little sense it makes.
quote:
One more thing for I disappear....You really should apply the views expressed in your signature to yourself buddy.
Heh, coincidentally, Animal Man's secret identity was Buddy Baker. Funny how life works like that.
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quote:
Originally posted by Animalman:
Inexperience may not be, but as I said, Kyle was unequipped, physically, mentally and emotionally, to take on the villains the JLA normally deals with.
That's what makes him different from the other JLA characters and probably why Morrison found him fun to write.
quote:
Originally posted by Animalman:
You can't just hand anybody a power ring and expect them to be able to fight aliens and super powered mutants.
That's the whole point of the character, and why I like him better than Hal.
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Originally in her debut, Arisia was a Kitty Pryde clone. A young teenage character to add some youthful exuberance to the book. But when GL was revamped into the Green Lantern Corps after the Crisis, Steve Englehart had her artificially aged to closer to Hal's age.
Which was too bad, because she would have been a great addition to the Teen Titans. But she was then killed off by Major Force, so the point is moot.
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quote:
Originally posted by I'm Not Mister Mxypltk:
That's the whole point of the character, and why I like him better than Hal.
.....you like him because he's an imbecile, who has no place on the Justice League of America?
He might work as G'Nort/Guy Gardner like character(i.e a joke) on his own book, but he shouldn't be on the JLA. So no, that's not the point of the character, because that's not how he's used.
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quote:
Originally posted by Animalman:
.....you like him because he's an imbecile, who has no place on the Justice League of America?
I like him because he's a human among gods. I don't see him as an imbecile, I see him as a normal dude. But even if he WAS an imbecile: what's more human than stupidity? I agree that he's a bit out of place in the JLA.
quote:
Originally posted by Animalman:
He might work as G'Nort/Guy Gardner like character(i.e a joke) on his own book, but he shouldn't be on the JLA. So no, that's not the point of the character, because that's not how he's used.
Then we're not reading the same comics.
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quote:
Originally posted by I'm Not Mister Mxypltk:
I agree that he's a bit out of place in the JLA.
And that was my point.
quote:
Then we're not reading the same comics.
What comics are you reading?
His book doesn't portray him as someone who genuinely struggles to fight the bad guys. Quite the contrary, they(and, specifically, Judd Winnick's awful run on Green Lantern) portray him as a god! Inexplicably, to say the least.
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quote:
Originally posted by Animalman:
And that was my point.
Having him in the JLA makes little sense. I'm sure someone here can come up with an excuse, but in the end he's out of place. However, I don't mind that lack of logic because it makes a great interaction with the other members.
quote:
Originally posted by Animalman:
What comics are you reading?
His book doesn't portray him as someone who genuinely struggles to fight the bad guys. Quite the contrary, they(and, specifically, Judd Winnick's awful run on Green Lantern) portray him as a god! Inexplicably, to say the least.
All I've read with him as a steady character is Morrison's JLA and Ron Marz' first twenty or so issues in GL. I like the way he's shown in JLA for reasons I just explained, and I think Marz' first issues are awesome. I've read some of the later issues and I don't care much for them. I get the impression Marz could have made Kyle evolve as a character like Messner-Loebs made Wally evolve in his run (that's where the first issues are headed) but for some reason or another he didn't. It's very possible that DC told him to keep him as a permanent rookie because that seemed to sell comics. And now all of the sudden (from what I've read) they wanna show him as more experienced, but I bet that isn't working because, well, at what point did he learn?
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quote:
Originally posted by I'm Not Mister Mxypltk:
And now all of the sudden (from what I've read) they wanna show him as more experienced, but I bet that isn't working because, well, at what point did he learn?
Bingo! Exactly! This is my entire argument!
It baffles me that DC writers can't see this.
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The only comic I've read with the character was JLA: Earth 2. I liked the way he was clearly a rookie, and a bit of a nonce, in that story. "I mean, every superhereo has to make a trip to the anti-matter universe at some stage, right?" I laughed: he seemed very naive. I quite like that, compared to the steady and certain characters we normally get in comics.
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That's because the DC editorial staff are still divided on Hal and Kyle. And worse yet, they kow tow to the demands of creators like Alex Ross and Kevin Smith who demand that they be allowed to use their favorite characters if DC wants their work. If the DC editorialship would all be on the same page on how to use Kyle there would be as much debate on Kyle as there was with Wally vs. Barry. I swear there was less debate on Connor vs. Ollie than there is Hal vs. Kyle.
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quote:
Originally posted by Animalman:
Bingo! Exactly! This is my entire argument!
It baffles me that DC writers can't see this.
That's what's going on NOW. I thought you said you hated the character in general, not just in the recent years.
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quote:
Originally posted by I'm Not Mister Mxypltk:
That's what's going on NOW. I thought you said you hated the character in general, not just in the recent years.
I don't really hate the character itself(I might pretend to sometimes, but honestly, what's the point of hating a fictional creation?), I just hate how he's used. Like I said before, if he was used exclusively as a Guy Gardner/G'Nort type GL, a punchline(the "naive kid" archetype, as Dave touches on), I'd be fine with him. It's when writers like the aforementioned Winnick have him somehow come off as the savior of the universe that I lose my patience. And quickly.
I will, however, admit that I feel Hal has been slightly degraded by being replaced by a character like this. If Kyle had been introduced seperately, it would be different, but Marz made no attempt to hide the fact that Kyle was Hal's heir. To go back to a very good comparison you made, if writers hadn't shown Wally progress and mature as a character, but instead forced him to remain the tail-chasing juvenile that he was at first, I'd probably feel the same way about Wally replacing Barry.
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Very interesting Marz interview about GL: http://www.comicbookresources.com/news/newsitem.cgi?id=3059 "But the multi-faceted writer isn't above admitting his own "failures" and says he does feel he didn't develop Kyle enough in his time on the series. "I truthfully didn't develop Kyle enough during my run. I probably should have gotten him further past 'wide-eyed rookie' than I did. Only a couple years of time passed in the book, but in real time it was seven years. I can understand readers feeling as though they'd had enough of him being a rookie. But sometimes you don't see the forest for the trees." About the new arc: "Most of the story will take place on Earth, rather than in space, and while there will be an appropriate amount of action, and a couple of returning villains, it's a very character-driven arc. Kyle's going to confront why he's Green Lantern, and even if he should be Green Lantern. It's not going to be an overly happy storyline for him. I know how it's going to end, and I'm really anxious to write that scene. More than that, you're just going to have to wait." Hmmm... Sounds like Kyle is stepping down. I hope Marz does well. He's proven that he can do some excellent stuff and I hope he doesn't fail now.
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quote:
Originally posted by jafabian:
Hal never had a solid one and Kyle's is so-so at best. He has no Green Goblin, no Joker, no Lex Luthor, no Reverse Flash. That needs to change because the primary rule in storytelling is that the antagonist makes the protagonist.
Amon Sur is a possible nemesis for Kyle.
I used to collect GL during the Jordan Era. I picked up the current GL arc and its pretty decent in my opinion. You can see that Kyle has evolved as a character.
I agree with Pro and Dave let Hal rest in peace.
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Kind of funny to revisit this thread now that Hal is back and the GL books are among DC's top sellers. Never thought I'd see that happen.
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</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Animalman: <strong>Pro, how could you like Kyle?!?!?</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif">Very easily, actually. Not implying anything towards you in any way, but, I am one of those guys that likes progressive change. I don't live my fantasies out through my favorite comic character. I'm not personally attached to them. Or, even, demand that my favorite childhood characters never change or grow. I enjoy comics for entertainment value and on artistic merit. When Hal went nuts and slaughtered the Corp., I was ecstatic. Not because I hate Jordan, or worship Marz, or anything, but, simply, because it was one of the most shocking, bold moves ever made with a franchise character. Like CRISIS, you didn't know what to expect, and you had no idea who was going to live and die. Did I like the death of Kilowag? Hell no. But, emotional sacrifice has to be made for real change to occur. Did I like the way Kyle was written in his own book? At first, yes. But, then, it became so bogged down and dreary that I abandoned the series itself. Instead, I focused on Kyle in Morrison's JLA, loving every minute of seeing a rookie Corp member. I can like Kyle very easily. But, someone's going to have to work to get me to like a returned-from-the-Spectre-grave Hal. I think Hal, like Barry, deserves his honorable rest. I think it's an insult to the legacy of the character to have him rung through the muck and grinding whim of obsessive fanboy mentality, by having him brought back to life. Just my opinion, mind you.  I totally agree with past-Pro... 
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He knew the future back then too
big_pimp_tim-made it cool to roll in the first damn place! Mon Jun 11 2007 09:27 PM- harley finally rolled with me "I'm working with him...he's young but, there is much potential. He can apprentice with me and then he's yours for final training. He will remember the face of his father... Some day, Knutreturns just may be the greatest of us all...."-THE bastard
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