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#1225956 - Mon Jun 04 2018 11:26 AM Supreme Court Sides With Baker Who Turned Away Gay Couple
the G-man
Offline Officially "too old for this shit"

Registered: Fri May 16 2003
Posts: 43422
Loc: the right
Supreme Court Sides With Baker Who Turned Away Gay Couple

  • Justice Anthony M. Kennedy, writing for the majority in the 7-2 decision, relied on narrow grounds, saying a state commission had violated the Constitution’s protection of religious freedom in ruling against the baker, Jack Phillips, who had refused to create a custom wedding cake for a gay couple.

    “The neutral and respectful consideration to which Phillips was entitled was compromised here,” Justice Kennedy wrote. “The Civil Rights Commission’s treatment of his case has some elements of a clear and impermissible hostility toward the sincere religious beliefs that motivated his objection.”

    The decision, which turned on the commission’s asserted hostility to religion, left open the possibility that other cases raising similar issues could be decided differently.


Everyone but Ginsberg and Sotomayer were in the majority. Even Kagan.

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#1225957 - Mon Jun 04 2018 11:47 AM Re: Supreme Court Sides With Baker Who Turned Away Gay Couple [Re: the G-man]
Matter-eater Man
Online   argumentative Fair Play!

Registered: Sat Jun 07 2003
Posts: 13858
I don't think it's a black and white issue where everything lines up on partisan lines. I value both sides of the argument but probably would have gone with the 2 because the argument that a sale is somehow sacred is false to me.

Fair play!

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#1225962 - Mon Jun 04 2018 11:34 PM Re: Supreme Court Sides With Baker Who Turned Away Gay Couple [Re: Matter-eater Man]
Captain Sammitch
Offline terrible podcaster

Registered: Fri Sep 20 2002
Posts: 17771
Loc: painesville, oh
My read was that it had way more to do with the (lack of) objectivity displayed by the commission in their proceedings than with the legitimacy of the baker's original grievance. You can't be an asshole to assholes, or else you give them a shot at martyrdom in the public eye. Just stick to the book and let the process do its job. FWIW, I do think proprietors of private establishments should be free to refuse service in the event they feel their religious convictions would be violated by offering it. I also think that while the baker's decision might be applauded by quite a few Christian denominations, their actions don't seem terribly consistent with the actual teachings of Jesus - but then that's kind of the new normal in America, isn't it?

go.

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#1225965 - Tue Jun 05 2018 04:07 PM Re: Supreme Court Sides With Baker Who Turned Away Gay Couple [Re: Captain Sammitch]
Wonder Boy
Online   content brutally Kamphausened

Registered: Wed Sep 12 2001
Posts: 18207
Loc: A glorious bold new America
Y'know, in any other business, the business owner has the ultimate right to refuse business for any reason. If a guy is a Christian baker, he has the right to not bake a "Hail Satan" cake, or a "Communist Party U.S.A." cake, or a gay wedding cake. I saw this baker interviewed last night and again this morning, and he seems like a very sincere guy. He would make a gay couple a birthday cake or make them one for any other holiday. But he or any person should not be forced against their will to participate in any event they don't believe in. He took a 40% cut in his business, because in order to not bake a gay wedding cake, by legal threat he had to not bake ANY wedding cakes, and that was a huge slice of his business he was on principle willing to deprive himself of. And was forced to let go half his employees, due to the reduced business. Just because 2 gay men maliciously sued him instead of going to another baker.

So... I think the Court made the right decision. Quite to my astonishment, they did what was right instead of caving in to social pressure and political correctness.

The alternative is to force Jews to eat pork, force Catholic institutions to provide condoms or sponsor abortions, or perhaps force gays, blacks and Jews to cater the next KKK/Neo-Nazi/white supremacist social outing. We have free speech and freedom to assemble, it doesn't make sense to force people against their will to do things that they ideologically oppose, or even despise.

And that freedom should cut both ways.

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#1225966 - Tue Jun 05 2018 04:26 PM Re: Supreme Court Sides With Baker Who Turned Away Gay Couple [Re: Wonder Boy]
Wonder Boy
Online   content brutally Kamphausened

Registered: Wed Sep 12 2001
Posts: 18207
Loc: A glorious bold new America


Wow, 4 years.
This decision was a long time coming.

Baker won't bake a gay cake topic

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#1225967 - Tue Jun 05 2018 05:15 PM Re: Supreme Court Sides With Baker Who Turned Away Gay Couple [Re: Wonder Boy]
Wonder Boy
Online   content brutally Kamphausened

Registered: Wed Sep 12 2001
Posts: 18207
Loc: A glorious bold new America





The two opposing legal sides.



If THIS cake displayed is the one the two gay men got from another bakery (cake close-up of man's underwear with erect penis bulging out), I think the point is made pretty well in favor of the Christian baker. It wasn't just a gay wedding cake that said "Happy Anniversary".

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#1225968 - Tue Jun 05 2018 06:05 PM Re: Supreme Court Sides With Baker Who Turned Away Gay Couple [Re: Wonder Boy]
Wonder Boy
Online   content brutally Kamphausened

Registered: Wed Sep 12 2001
Posts: 18207
Loc: A glorious bold new America


Interesting to read this online from a similar case in Northern Ireland:

ASHERS BAKERY SAYS GAY MARRIAGE APPEAL HAS WIDE IMPLICATIONS IN THE U.K.


 Quote:

09 May, 2016 15:00


CHRISTIAN bakers found guilty of discrimination for refusing to make a cake with a pro-gay marriage slogan have insisted their appeal has implications for freedom of expression across the UK.

The McArthur family, who run Ashers Baking Company in Belfast, are seeking to overturn a judgment which found they acted unlawfully by declining the order placed by LGBT activist Gareth Lee in 2014.

Arriving at the Court of Appeal in Belfast, Daniel McArthur (26) Ashers' general manager, said he hoped the appeal judges would not require the company to "endorse a view that goes against our conscience".

He noted that the appeal is starting two years to the day from when the order for the cake was placed. Northern Ireland is the only part of the UK and Ireland where same-sex marriage remains outlawed.

"Two years ago today we were asked to help promote a campaign to redefine marriage in Northern Ireland," he said.

"We never imagined that two years later we would find ourselves still living with the consequences of that request."




An earlier appeal had been scheduled for February, but proceedings were postponed after a last-minute intervention from Attorney General John Larkin QC, who advises Stormont politicians on legal matters.

The Northern Ireland Equality Commission, which monitors compliance with the region's anti-discrimination laws, brought the landmark civil action against Ashers on behalf of Mr Lee.

Mr McArthur said: "The Attorney General's involvement confirms there are big issues at stake.

"This was never just a case about one little bakery in Belfast. It's always had implications for freedom of expression throughout the UK."

The case is estimated to have cost in excess of £100,000 to run so far.

Gareth Lee arrived ahead of the hearing with Chief Commissioner of the NI Equality Commission Dr Michael Wardlow.

Mr Wardlow insisted faith was not being put on trial.

"This is case about a man who walked into a shop two years ago and didn't get the service that he would expect.

"And I don't want Northern Ireland to be a lottery where when we go into a shop or ask for a service that we have to second-guess the conscience or value base of the service provider.

"I think it's important also to mention this was not just about sexual orientation, this was about political and religious opinion and it strikes at the heart of what I believe to be the common good.

"We had a very good judgment a year ago in the county court and I hope when we have the appeal this week as well that the judgment is upheld because, if it's not upheld, we are back into a lottery again."



In this case, the cake was requested by a gay activist. Which makes me wonder if in both the Belfast case and in the Colorado case, it was a setup where they ordered gay cakes in many bakeries, and legally targeted/intimidated the ones who said no.


Apparently in the Belfast case, unlike the Colorado case, they LOST the appeal.

Which translates to a further encroachment on religious freedom in the U.K.

As far back as the Canada Allows Same-sex Marriage topic, it's been clear this is not just occurring in the U.S., but also in Canada, across Europe, in Latin America, and though we don't hear about it, I'm sure in the muslim world and China as well.





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