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#1227390 - Tue Oct 16 2018 09:56 PM Trump compares Saudi Crown Prince to Kavanaugh
Matter-eater Man
Online   argumentative Fair Play!

Registered: Sat Jun 07 2003
Posts: 13908
 Quote:
President Trump said Saudi Arabia being blamed for the disappearance of Washington Post columnist Jamal Khashoggi was another case of “guilty until proven innocent” and compared the situation to sexual assault allegations against Supreme Court Justice Brett Kavanaugh in an interview with the Associated Press Tuesday. “I think we have to find out what happened first,” he was quoted as saying. “Here we go again with, you know, you’re guilty until proven innocent. I don’t like that. We just went through that with Justice Kavanaugh and he was innocent all the way as far as I’m concerned,” he said. The president's comments were published shortly after he tweeted that Saudi Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman had “totally denied” knowing anything about what happened to Khashoggi in Istanbul’s Saudi Arabian consulate during a phone conversation. ...

Daily Beast
I think it was already bad when once again Trump goes on defense for somebody that probably had a journalist killed. Drawing a comparison with Kavanaugh though?

Fair play!

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#1227393 - Wed Oct 17 2018 08:06 AM Re: Trump compares Saudi Crown Prince to Kavanaugh [Re: Matter-eater Man]
the G-man
Online   ass-kicky Officially "too old for this shit"

Registered: Fri May 16 2003
Posts: 43438
Loc: the right
Yeah, there's not really a good defense to this comment.
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#1227396 - Wed Oct 17 2018 11:10 AM Re: Trump compares Saudi Crown Prince to Kavanaugh [Re: the G-man]
Wonder Boy
Offline brutally Kamphausened

Registered: Wed Sep 12 2001
Posts: 18400
Loc: A glorious bold new America
Yeah...
1) Keith Ellison is a wife beater whose girlfriend has police reports and medical treatment to document it, even as Democrats simultaneously convict Brett Kavanaugh without evidence, and WON'T EVEN DISCUSS Ellison.
2) Project Veritas has caught multiple heads of staff of at least 2 Democrat candidates saying that they are lying to their constituents to dupe moderates to vote for them.
3) Since the Kavanaugh confirmation, liberal activists have been rioting in the streets in angry mobs, blocking traffic and threatening drivers in Portland Oregon, threatening Republicans, destroying the GOP campaign office New York City, a lawless campaign of intimidation, slander, threats and violence, that NO DEMOCRAT ACKNOWLEDGES OR CRITICIZES, and thus they openly endorse these tactics, and guarantee violence will escalate and more people will be hurt...

But yeah. Trump made an off-the cuff remark, so the liberal media is obsessing on that. Basically, it's not what I would have said if I were Trump, but all he really said is, we'll have to wait for what investigators find, and we can't make judgements until the facts are known.

The Washington Post reporter killed had a rather odd situation, not a U.S. citizen, but had a U.S. passport, somehow entangled with radical muslim players in the Saudi and Turkish government. Initially listed in reports as a U.S. national, his nationality and business in the mid east are much less transparent than that.

While not artfully said by Trump, it's true that it could have been a state-sanctioned killing ordered from the top. Or it could have been low-level Saudi operatives deliberately killing him on their own. Or it could have been intended torture, that accidentally killed the guy. With 15 Saudi agents sent in to Turkey, I think it pretty clearly was a planned killing, it's just a matter of who ordered the hit.

Dismembered in pieces, it's like something out of Goodfellas.


But leave it to the Democrats and the liberal media to change the subject from their own dismemberment of our Constitutional democracy to focus on tea-leaf reading what Trump said. It's meaningless until the facts are known. There are far more important issues to discuss.
This to me is like the liberal media endlessly speculating if some cabinet member called Trump an idiot behind his back (anonymous sources, or no sources) or wildly speculating without evidence what Trump staff member will leave next. No information, just a "palace intrigue" liberal-media narrative intended to hurt Trump politically.


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#1227407 - Wed Oct 17 2018 10:28 PM Re: Trump compares Saudi Crown Prince to Kavanaugh [Re: Wonder Boy]
Matter-eater Man
Online   argumentative Fair Play!

Registered: Sat Jun 07 2003
Posts: 13908
It's been more than one comment WB. There's enough out there that Trump knows very well that the crown prince very likely had a legal US resident murdered. His playing defense for him like a toadie instead of the leader of the most powerful country in the world diminishes all of us. I get that because Saudi Arabia has tons of money and are in a key position in the Middle East it requires tact but Trump acting this way is just wrong.

Fair play!

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#1227409 - Thu Oct 18 2018 07:58 PM Re: Trump compares Saudi Crown Prince to Kavanaugh [Re: Wonder Boy]
the G-man
Online   ass-kicky Officially "too old for this shit"

Registered: Fri May 16 2003
Posts: 43438
Loc: the right
 Originally Posted By: Wonder Boy
Yeah...
1) Keith Ellison is a wife beater whose girlfriend has police reports and medical treatment to document it, even as Democrats simultaneously convict Brett Kavanaugh without evidence, and WON'T EVEN DISCUSS Ellison.
2) Project Veritas has caught multiple heads of staff of at least 2 Democrat candidates saying that they are lying to their constituents to dupe moderates to vote for them.
3) Since the Kavanaugh confirmation, liberal activists have been rioting in the streets in angry mobs, blocking traffic and threatening drivers in Portland Oregon, threatening Republicans, destroying the GOP campaign office New York City, a lawless campaign of intimidation, slander, threats and violence, that NO DEMOCRAT ACKNOWLEDGES OR CRITICIZES, and thus they openly endorse these tactics, and guarantee violence will escalate and more people will be hurt...

But yeah. Trump made an off-the cuff remark, so the liberal media is obsessing on that. Basically, it's not what I would have said if I were Trump, but all he really said is, we'll have to wait for what investigators find, and we can't make judgements until the facts are known.

The Washington Post reporter killed had a rather odd situation, not a U.S. citizen, but had a U.S. passport, somehow entangled with radical muslim players in the Saudi and Turkish government. Initially listed in reports as a U.S. national, his nationality and business in the mid east are much less transparent than that.

While not artfully said by Trump, it's true that it could have been a state-sanctioned killing ordered from the top. Or it could have been low-level Saudi operatives deliberately killing him on their own. Or it could have been intended torture, that accidentally killed the guy. With 15 Saudi agents sent in to Turkey, I think it pretty clearly was a planned killing, it's just a matter of who ordered the hit.

Dismembered in pieces, it's like something out of Goodfellas.


But leave it to the Democrats and the liberal media to change the subject from their own dismemberment of our Constitutional democracy to focus on tea-leaf reading what Trump said. It's meaningless until the facts are known. There are far more important issues to discuss.
This to me is like the liberal media endlessly speculating if some cabinet member called Trump an idiot behind his back (anonymous sources, or no sources) or wildly speculating without evidence what Trump staff member will leave next. No information, just a "palace intrigue" liberal-media narrative intended to hurt Trump politically.



Okay, so assuming all that to be true, why should I defend the President's unforced error that plays directly into the hands of that self same unfair media?

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#1227412 - Fri Oct 19 2018 02:17 AM Re: Trump compares Saudi Crown Prince to Kavanaugh [Re: Matter-eater Man]
Wonder Boy
Offline brutally Kamphausened

Registered: Wed Sep 12 2001
Posts: 18400
Loc: A glorious bold new America

 Originally Posted By: Matter-eater Man
It's been more than one comment WB. There's enough out there that Trump knows very well that the crown prince very likely had a legal US resident murdered. His playing defense for him like a toadie instead of the leader of the most powerful country in the world diminishes all of us. I get that because Saudi Arabia has tons of money and are in a key position in the Middle East it requires tact but Trump acting this way is just wrong.


Your Pavlovian reflex attack on Trump.

You seem to have forgotten how weak Obama was for 8 years.

THIS is what a toadie looks like...


Barack Obama, bowing to the Saudi King, 2009


...and...

OBAMA: "I can be more flexible after the election...."
MEDVEDEV: [Eagerly] "I willl transmit this information to Vladimir [Putin]."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=keXx0zxTarE&t=18s

I'm hard pressed to remember one time Obama ever stood up to foreign leaders. He was walked all over by China, Iran, India, Russia, Venezuela, Cuba, ISIS... He even gave away Czech and Poland's missile defense shield without even consulting them in an empty gesture to cozy up to Putin, in exchange for... what?
Obama did not even intervene to secure the freedom of two U.S. marines who were wrongfully imprisoned in Mexico. >>>NEVER ONCE<<< did Obama even speak to the Mexican government to secure their release. NEVER ONCE did Obama even mention them in the media. Both of them almost died in prison because the conditions were so bad. Only after weeks did Obama speak in regret about a soldier being shot by a muslim radical shot him at a military recruiting station, and ONLY after he was shamed into making some minimal obligatory words of pseudo-sympathy.
Remember also how Obama made some half-hearted sympathetic comment to the press after a U.S. journalist was beheaded by Al Qaida, and in less than 60 seconds after, was laughing and cynically joking with rich donors on the golf course. It is not enough for me that Obama is no longer president. It frankly angers me that he is still breathing air, for the damage he did to this country in 8 years, that he is still doing.


Trump is being diplomatic with Saudi Arabia. He will administer appropriate retaliation when the proof is on the table. he is giving the Saudis the chance to come clean, or provide the rope to hang themselves. At which point Trump will take action.

If Trump had already taken action against the Saudis, your side would leap on him as being a hothead and not waiting till the evidence was reviewed.
Since he is being diplomatic and patient, your side is bashing Trump for that.
As is always the case with Bolshevik propaagandists in the Democrat leadership, and the character assassins in the liberal media who barely even pretend at this point to be journalists.


  • from Do Racists have lower IQ's...

    Liberals who bemoan discrimination, intolerance, restraint of Constitutional freedoms, and promotion of hatred toward various abberant minorities, have absolutely no problem with discriminating against, being intolerant of, restricting Constitutional freedoms of, and directing hate-filled scapegoat rhetoric against conservatives.

    EXACTLY what they accuse Republicans/conservatives of doing, is EXACTLY what liberals/Democrats do themselves, to those who oppose their beliefs.

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#1227413 - Fri Oct 19 2018 02:48 AM Re: Trump compares Saudi Crown Prince to Kavanaugh [Re: Wonder Boy]
Wonder Boy
Offline brutally Kamphausened

Registered: Wed Sep 12 2001
Posts: 18400
Loc: A glorious bold new America


 Originally Posted By: the G-man
Okay, so assuming all that to be true, why should I defend the President's unforced error that plays directly into the hands of that self same unfair media?


Surely you know, G-man, that if Trump had said everything perfectly regarding the Saudi assassination (and there is absolutely no doubt they are the murderers, it's only a question of how high in the Saudi government the hit was ordered), the media and Democrats would simply manufacture an "unforced error" by Trump, and put the words in his mouth to make him a racist or bigot or buffoon who is out of his depth.
Again, while Trump's were not the most artful words, they still made the point: We'll wait for the investigation before we take action.

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#1227428 - Fri Oct 19 2018 10:58 PM Re: Trump compares Saudi Crown Prince to Kavanaugh [Re: Wonder Boy]
Matter-eater Man
Online   argumentative Fair Play!

Registered: Sat Jun 07 2003
Posts: 13908
Uh Trump isn't being criticized by just Dems WB. I think like when Trump screwed up with Putin, this is drawing criticism from his party because it's that indefensible.

Fair play!

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#1227430 - Sat Oct 20 2018 12:27 PM Re: Trump compares Saudi Crown Prince to Kavanaugh [Re: Matter-eater Man]
Wonder Boy
Offline brutally Kamphausened

Registered: Wed Sep 12 2001
Posts: 18400
Loc: A glorious bold new America

That's just the usual horseshit, M E M. The never-Trumpers inside the GOP will always take the opportunity to bash Trump, regardless.

Again, Trump's comments were a preliminary statement before all the facts are known. Diplomacy. We are still very slowly seeing the fact leak out.
Ultimately, it is not what Trump says that matters, it is what Trump does.

The reality is, Saudy Arabia is a vital player in the mid east, and a bulwark against the ambitions of Iran. There is also a war in Yemen the Saudis have been waging. And a military contrat where we provide them with about $110 billion in planes and other weapons, that provide jobs in the United States.


I was surprised to hear some things from Robert Jordan, the most recent former U.S. ambassador to Saudi Arabia. He said what I've thought for several days, that it's too soon for Trump to take action regarding the Saudi killing, before the facts are known.

He suggested that Trump could state the $110 billion arms shipment is suspended until this is resolved. There is no pending shipment, so that would not delay anything, but would make a political statement that the Saudis have to cooperate and come clean.
I was astonished, he said that Trump should immediately fill the empty U.S. ambassador positions to Saudi Arabia and Turkey, given the turmoil and need to negotiate in those regions. I was astonished that such key positions were open! I don't know whether it is that Trump has not appointed ambassadors, or that their approval is delayed at the House or Senate committee level. As is the case with many Trump appointments.


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#1227431 - Sat Oct 20 2018 12:37 PM Re: Trump compares Saudi Crown Prince to Kavanaugh [Re: Wonder Boy]
Wonder Boy
Offline brutally Kamphausened

Registered: Wed Sep 12 2001
Posts: 18400
Loc: A glorious bold new America



Answering my own question:


TRUMP ADMINISTRATION DOESN'T HAVE AMBASSADORS IN SAUDI ARABIA OR TURKEY


 Quote:
The Trump administration has yet to nominate ambassadors in 20 countries, including Turkey and Saudi Arabia.

[Secretary of State] Pompeo and lawmakers have sparred over who is to blame for the ambassadorial vacancies.

Pompeo places the onus on the Senate, which has yet to confirm more than 50 of Trump's nominees. Lawmakers point out the president still has not nominated ambassadors to key positions across the Middle East and Latin America in particular.

Ronald Neumann, the president of the American Academy of Diplomacy, told The Associated Press that failing to have an ambassador to certain countries can make it appear that the U.S. does not care about that diplomatic relationship as much.
"Countries may get grouchy without an ambassador and that may affect relations,” he told the AP. “Without an ambassador, there is a greater chance of misunderstanding and greater chance you aren’t able to persuade them to do something we want.”


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