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#1227651 2018-11-11 2:54 PM
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I think Trump has already done more for vets then past presidents have.

What I do know for sure is Trump has better hair to protect from the rain than Obama has.

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He's good at stealing credit so it's no surprise you might think so...

'The Greatest Idea I Think I’ve Ever Had.' Trump Repeatedly Boasts About a Vets Healthcare Law at Rallies. Obama Passed It in 2014


Trump is also very good at making a profit off charitable events. But some people enjoy being screwed. I would have at least made him buy me a couple of drinks first though Lothar.


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1) Trump has given raises to Vets that Obama didn't.

2) Trump has given our forces the ability to act militarily, and win, without constrictive ridiculous rules of engagement that Obama imposed, that got a lot of soldiers killed. Fuck Obama, that is blood directly on his hands.

3) Trump has cleaned up the V.A. hospital fiasco that Obama had let fester his entire 8 years, that killed vets by denying treatment. Trump has also allowed vets to use other non-VA hospitals for treatment if they cannot get the treatment they need or desire within the VA system.


and
4) if Obama were a foreign sleeper agent sent to destroy America, he could not have done (or be doing, post-Presidency) more damage to this country. He stokes racial and class division, he undermines the current president (a far better and more pro-American president, who is quantifiably in every realm achieving a lot more than Obama did in his 8 years).

But then, Obama's goal was always destroying America, not building it.

Dinesh D'Souza: Why Obama Wants To Destroy America
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LAjGxvCc3qE&t=2147s


What we regard as Obama's failures are in truth successes for Obama's core ideology of Cultural Marxism, Anti-Colonialism, and Liberation Theology: destroying U.S./European global and economic power, collapsing U.S. influence over the Middle East region, and transferring wealth and economic resources to third-world nations.


A few other manifestations of Obama's contempt and endangerment of our military:

1) Two marines in separate incidents were wrongfully imprisoned in Mexico. Obama never once said a word or did ANYTHING to secure their release. One almost died of dysentery.

2) A military recruiter was shot and killed, Obama didn't say a word in sympathy or regret for his death, until 2 weeks later when he was shamed into making an obligatory public statement.

3) When muslim Nidal Hasan shot up a Texas military base, Obama denied soldiers who were involved medals for bravery and purple hearts, dubbing it "workplace violence". And by doing so, also denied them military-benefits medical treatment for their injuries.

4) the Bo Bergdahl amnesty and ridiculous deal, to secure a traitor's release at an enormous cost. No sympathy expressed for the 4 soldiers who were killed looking for Bergdahl when he deserted.

5) the release of Al Qaida's "board of directors", 5 high profile Al Qaida leaders, who were supposed to be kept under guard in Saudi Arabia, and just yesterday were confirmed to ALL be back on the battlefield plotting military campaigns against U.S. soldiers.

Oh yeah. Obama cares so much about our military.








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Before Obama even took office it was known, in May 2008:

Obama's goal? 'Jeopardize U.S. battlefield superiority'
https://www.wnd.com/2008/05/65771/


and


Obama 'declares war' on U.S. military
https://www.wnd.com/2013/03/obama-declares-war-on-u-s-military/


TEAM OBAMA "HOLLOWING OUT" U.S FORCES
https://www.wnd.com/2010/05/152381/

The Obama administration came up with the idea of sequestrations, where automatic massive cuts would be made to the U.S. military if budget reductions were not made. The Obama adminsitration suckered Republicans into accepting these sequestration conditional cuts, and then lied to the public and tried to allege that the sequestration cuts were first proposed by Republicans. Even the liberal media said that was absolutely not true.



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It's pretty laughable to put the entire blame of the sequesters on Obama. Once he was gone the money faucet was turned on and to top it off the GOP gave the very wealthiest a big tax cut. Your party wouldn't budge on the budgets or the sequesters for years supposedly because reducing the deficit was a principled stand. Full party control of the budget now shows what a sham that is.

Btw WB, check the pictures of Obama getting drenched honoring our troops. You worship a golden calf.
Trump signs veterans health bill as White House works against bipartisan plan to fund it
"In a memo circulated privately to Republican senators this week, White House officials slammed the leading veterans funding proposal as “anathema to responsible spending” and that predicts it would lead to ballooning costs and “virtually unlimited increases” in veterans’ spending on private health care."


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 Originally Posted By: M E M
It's pretty laughable to put the entire blame of the sequesters on Obama.


The Obama team came up with it!

Without Obama proposing and pushing it as conditional for them voting on the budget, it never would have happened!
And then the Obama team tried to pretend the idea came from the Republican side.

Period! The end! No margin for debate.

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You're not being honest now by making it all out about who came up with the idea. Republicans accepted and than were not willing to negotiate. The whole sequester thing came up in the first place because republicans were willing to not pass any spending. Your party was willing to hurt the country. Now in control your party passed a big tax cut for the wealthy and increased spending.


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It was conceptualized and pushed into legislation by Democrats.
PERIOD.

You're the one who's lying, M E M.
In order to get Democrats to cooperate in providing funds to rebuild the military, Trump had to accept a 1.6 trillion budget his first year, in which Dems extorted a lot of wet-dream liberal spending that neither Trump or anyone in the Republican party wanted, as the condition of rebuilding our military. Urgently necessary because the military was so disastrously unprepared. That is how badly Obama and the America-hating Democrats had destroyed our military during 8 years of Obama. Only 40% of our military planes were combat-ready when Trump took office.

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 Originally Posted By: Wonder Boy


Before Obama even took office it was known, in May 2008:

Obama's goal? 'Jeopardize U.S. battlefield superiority'
https://www.wnd.com/2008/05/65771/


and


Obama 'declares war' on U.S. military
https://www.wnd.com/2013/03/obama-declares-war-on-u-s-military/


TEAM OBAMA "HOLLOWING OUT" U.S FORCES
https://www.wnd.com/2010/05/152381/

The Obama administration came up with the idea of sequestrations, where automatic massive cuts would be made to the U.S. military if budget reductions were not made. The Obama adminsitration suckered Republicans into accepting these sequestration conditional cuts, and then lied to the public and tried to allege that the sequestration cuts were first proposed by Republicans. Even the liberal media said that was absolutely not true.




And we knew how treasonous and dangerous to our national security Obama would be 10 years ago. Before he even took office, he had telegraphed his treasonous Cultural Marxist/Anti-Colonialism intent.

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 Originally Posted By: Wonder Boy



It was conceptualized and pushed into legislation by Democrats.
PERIOD.

You're the one who's lying, M E M.
In order to get Democrats to cooperate in providing funds to rebuild the military, Trump had to accept a 1.6 trillion budget his first year, in which Dems extorted a lot of wet-dream liberal spending that neither Trump or anyone in the Republican party wanted, as the condition of rebuilding our military. Urgently necessary because the military was so disastrously unprepared. That is how badly Obama and the America-hating Democrats had destroyed our military during 8 years of Obama. Only 40% of our military planes were combat-ready when Trump took office.



republicans have majority control of both the house and senate. They used it to give the very wealthy a big tax cut that will increase the deficit. Back when Obama was President you know dang well they used the budget as a bargaining chip when they won the House. If you really honestly felt the sequester was that bad than shouldn't the GOP of have been willing to make a deal back than? They chose not to. Whenever republicans get in power though deficit spending is okay. You're trying to have it both ways but I remember all to well the GOP that took us to the brink with the budget.


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It is a lying Democrat talking point that "They used it to give the very wealthy a big tax cut", when in truth they gave EVERYONE a tax cut. And that historically, tax cuts result in more jobs and business, that leads to more taxable income, that actually increases state revenue.

And it was Democrats who made the sequester a required condition of raising the debt cieling.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_budget_sequestration_in_2013

 Quote:
In February with their reduced majority, key Republicans admitted that they would not be able to pass the bill again, even in the House.[16] Nevertheless, many Republicans believed that the bill would serve as a template for what they wanted: no tax increases, no defense cuts, and considerable domestic spending reductions.[


I repeat: Republicans were tricked into signing it.

Just like Obamacare.
Just like amnesty for illegals in 1986.
Deception is the standard operating tactic for Democrats.


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The very wealthy in a time where they were already getting richer got the biggest benefit from the tax cut that will make the deficit larger. I've witnessed republicans during Clinton's, W's, Obama's and now Trump's terms do the same thing over and over. Increase deficit spending if it's their guy in the WH and than get really aggressive if it's a dem. When this lump of shit stops stinking up the WH I already know you guys will switch back to trying to tie the purse strings shut when a dem wins it back. The GOP wasn't tricked, nor were they forced to keep it. They chose to do so instead of actually trying to negotiate a deal. Obama was foolish to even try. I think you will be out of luck next time.


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 Originally Posted By: Matter-eater Man
The very wealthy in a time where they were already getting richer got the biggest benefit from the tax cut that will make the deficit larger. I've witnessed republicans during Clinton's, W's, Obama's and now Trump's terms do the same thing over and over. Increase deficit spending if it's their guy in the WH and than get really aggressive if it's a dem. When this lump of shit stops stinking up the WH I already know you guys will switch back to trying to tie the purse strings shut when a dem wins it back. The GOP wasn't tricked, nor were they forced to keep it. They chose to do so instead of actually trying to negotiate a deal. Obama was foolish to even try. I think you will be out of luck next time.



That is, again, a partisan liar's argument.
You even blame Republicans during the period where Democrats controlled all 3 branches of government. The truth is, Republicans (Trump in particular!) have done more to create jobs and raaise wages than Democrats have in the last 4 decades. When Democrats gain power promising one thing, they then abuse that power to pursue their hidden leftist agenda. In eight years as president, Obama and the Dems only passed one significant piece of legislation (Obamacare).
Obama campaigned as a moderate and a unifier. He governed as a partisan demagogue (and then blamed the Republicans for his own divisiveness.)
Obama campaigned on economic responsibility, and then vilified business owners and enacted policy that was stifling to jobs and business creation, and doubled enrollment in food stamps and disability claims.
Obama campaigned on fiscal responsibility and expanding the debt was "irresponsible" and "unpatriotic". And then exploded the national debt from 10 trillion to 20 trillion, more debt in 8 years than all past presidents combined.

 Quote:
Increase deficit spending if it's their guy in the WH and than get really aggressive if it's a dem.


Isn't that exactly what you were doing for 8 years?
And the only reason it went up in Trump's first year is because for Trump to get $700 billion to rebuild our military (that Obama destroyed, to dangerous levels of unpreparedness) Democrats extorted additional spending that totalled 1.6 trillion. If your Democrats are the more responsible party, why didn't they just give Trump the 700 billion needed, why extort 900 billion more for all kinds additional spending?

It's lying propaganda for the left, that the Left spitefully spreads, just because you want to remove the opposing party by whatever deceitful means. It's a lie and YOU KNOW it's a lie, but you spreead it anyway.


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    EXACTLY what they accuse Republicans/conservatives of doing, is EXACTLY what liberals/Democrats do themselves, to those who oppose their beliefs.
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Obama created more jobs in his last 20 months than the fat piece of shit in his first 20. This is updated from the 18 month one I've posted a couple of times. And while I would have preferred stuff like W's big drug coverage expansion to have been less of a give away with no effort to pay for it, I still supported it because it helps a lot of people. That would have never been allowed to happen if it had been Obama. You guys spend and cut taxes when in power. It's only been when it's a dem in the WH you guys actually push deficit reduction. Historical fact at this point since Reagan.


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And Obama lost millions of jobs in his first 3 years.
When Obama was elected, the stock market tanked even further in the first 2 months before he was inaugurated. In anticipation of his anti-business policies.

When Trump was elected, after an initial day or two of decline when the Trump-hating media tried to scare America into a self-fulfilling recession they predicted, the market actually rose for 2 months in anticipation of Trump's pro-business policies.

Your argument is a very narrow context of a few months of Obama's presidency. Similar to where W.Bush and McCain championed a "troop surge" in Iraq that Obama opposed, and then after Obama was inaugurated he took credit for "winning the war" that he ironically opposed every step of the way. Then in December 2011 Obama withdrew all troops from Iraq and set the stage for ISIS to invade and conquer half the country, and caused millions of islamic refugees to flee to the U.S. and Europe. In the same mentality, Democrats can say "Obama created the greeatest peace in Iraq for 20 months". When in truth whatever peace occurred was in spite of, not because of, Obama.

i.e., a false narrative of cherry-picking a few months out of 8 years, that masks that Trump in 22 months has created the best economy in decades, far exceeding the economic success under Obama, W. Bush, and even Clinton. Again: If it was better economic numbers than under W. Bush, who preceded Obama, it was certainly better than under Obama.


  • from Do Racists have lower IQ's...

    Liberals who bemoan discrimination, intolerance, restraint of Constitutional freedoms, and promotion of hatred toward various abberant minorities, have absolutely no problem with discriminating against, being intolerant of, restricting Constitutional freedoms of, and directing hate-filled scapegoat rhetoric against conservatives.

    EXACTLY what they accuse Republicans/conservatives of doing, is EXACTLY what liberals/Democrats do themselves, to those who oppose their beliefs.
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I remember McCain while running against Obama saying the economy was cratering. W's was already taking extreme actions to try to save the economy. You trying to present the recession as a reaction to Obama being elected is very and provably untrue. And 20 months is almost the entire Trump presidency at this point. The fact that there was more job creation during Obama's last 20 shows Trump inherited a healthy and growing economy. One that doesn't have republicans willing to take this country to the fiscal cliff over the budget like Cruz tried to do with Obama.


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You keep trying to push that lying propaganda talking point. But Obama was in office for 8 years, not 20 months. The economy grew during part of Obama's presidency, but in more than the first 2 years of Obama's 8 years our country continued to hemmorage jobs in the millions. Obama's people called 1% to 2% annual growth "the new normal", team Obama could not even imagine 3 or 4% growth that Trump has accomplished and maintained for 2 years, so it is ridiculous to try and give Obama credit for 4% growth under Trump.

It is a fact that the stockmarket cratered even deeper after Obama won the 2008 election, and that millions more jobs were lost oij the months after Obama was elected AND inaugurated. That reflects that people who knew the market best were not optimistic about the business friendliness of Obama's economic policy.

It is also a fact that the opposite happened when Trump was elected in 2016. After some initial "the sky is falling" rhetoric by Paul Krugman and the DNC propagandists at CNN and elswhere in the media to try and saabotage Trump, the market in fact rose at the prospect of Trump's economic policy, and continued to rise after his inauguration.

Trump has seen the best economic performance since 2000. Last time I checked, that was 8 years before Obama took office. It is smoke-and-mirrors logic to try and argue that 20 months out of Obama's 8 years make his presidency superior to Trump's, when Trump by many measures has the best economy in at least 20 years, and the lowest black, hispanic, women and under-25 unemployment numbers in fifty years.


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AGAIN:
You cherry-picked a 20-month period.

Obama governed for 8 years, most of the first 3 years of which was disastrous. Even when things improved, it seems to me that things hit such rock-bottom that there was nowhere to go but up.

Also, much of the "growth" was actually fake growth and deficit, where Obama racked up 10 trillion in debt in his 8 years, more than all other past presidents combined.
Add to that the over 3 trillion in new currency printed during Obama's term, another way for the government to spend money that it doesn't have. Financial firm owner and CNBC panelist Peter Schiff said that a government printing money is a subtle form of taxation. Instead of directly taking your money, the government just prints trillions more, making every dollar you have in the bank worth less. There was 800 billion in printed currency when Obama took office. And before he even left office, there was over 3 trilliom more in currency printed, which more than quadruples the money supply.

So Obama burned the wick at both ends, and left this country in a far greater financial bind. Using that vast spending and printing of dollars to create the illusion of a growing economy. And even with all that waste, was only able to create 1% to 2% growth a year. At enormous cost. The federal debt was about 40% of annual U.S. GNP when Obama took office. Now it is over 100% of GNP. Trump is rebuilding our industry and our military. Reversing the destruction of Obama.




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Trump is on track to have an even larger deficit. After Clinton and Obama I know longer believe the GOP is interested in reducing the deficit when it switches tactics depending if they have the WH. And I didn't cherry pick. Obviously the economy and job creation was already good way before Trump was even elected. He didn't have anything to do with that obviously.


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 Originally Posted By: Matter-eater Man
Trump is on track to have an even larger deficit. After Clinton and Obama I know longer believe the GOP is interested in reducing the deficit when it switches tactics depending if they have the WH. And I didn't cherry pick. Obviously the economy and job creation was already good way before Trump was even elected. He didn't have anything to do with that obviously.


On the point of Trump being headed for an even larger deficit, I have to agree with you, and that is one of the few concerns (and certainly the primary one) I have about Trump. I'd hoped he is only doing what needs to be done with deficits in his first two years. I had a conservative friend tell me that Trump has already laid out large deficits that will continue till his fourth year. That concerns me deeply. Trump is in every other ay a remedy to the excesses of the two-party establishment/elitist club that enriches itself while selling the rest of us out to globalist/corporate interests. The debt is of huge concern to me, but unfortunately not to many Republicans and Democrats voters alike. It is an abstraction that is difficult to make into an issue many people care about.

Financial writers like David Wiedemer, James Rickards, and Peter Schiff often cite that the debt snowball is rolling beyond control and cannot be stopped, that regardless of which party is in office, the president after Bill Clinton of either party would inevitably have more debt, the president after George W. of either party would have even more, and the president after Obama even more. But I frankly don't buy that. Under each of these presidents there have been huge new expenditures. I had high hopes that Trump the reformer would make this one of his important reforms.

My only caveat to that is, Trump requested $700 billion to rebuild our military that was gutted and dangerously unready after 8 years of Obamaa, and instead of giving Trump that, the Democrats extorted another 900 billion for liberal spending programs. I fault the Democrats for that, but I also faault Trump (the tough negotiator) for not playing hardball for less spending.

Certainly, M E M, you were not at all concerned about deficits when Obama was president. Unlike you, I am concerned about deficits under Trump.


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I think I'm consistent with the deficit. As I pointed out earlier I supported W's giveaway with the drug benefit. I would have preferred that it was less of a give away but it helps a lot of people. That got bipartisan support only because he was a republican though. Your party has made it clear you will hold the country hostage over the budget if it's a democrat in the WH. Remember senator Cruz leading the charge in not passing budgets because the deficit had to be dealt with. You can try to spin things but the GOP was very good at using the deficit issue against both Clinton and Obama and than increase spending when you have the WH. Btw I live in a state that pays it's bills when Dems have control.


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I'm not sure what you mean by "W's giveaway with the drug benefit." Do you mean the prescription drug plan?

While I think Bush was too much of a globalist and moved us toward melting into a North American Union, and raised the debt by 5 trillion, instead of pay-as-you-go (this last one the the same complaint I have about Trump), I also think he is unfairly scorned as divisive. Despite the Democrat leadership and liberal media's unprecedented uncivility every single day since Nov 2000, Bush (unlike Trump) rarely fired back.
Particularly looking at his time as a Texas governor, W. Bush was very bipartisan in legislation he got passed in Texas. In that I think he is unfairly maaligned as "divisive".
Likewise, when Bush was president, W. Bush was demonized as "right wing" and "divisive" despite that in an effort to form a unified government he gave Democrats an enormous amount of what they wanted, stuff like the prescription drug plan, S-CHIP, and No Child Left Behind (which as John Stossel pointed out for years, costs tens of billions annually but doesn't work).

And I'm not "spinning", M E M, I've clearly been critical of deficits under presidents of both parties!
Unlike yourself.
On the deficit spending issue, I'm so far disappointed with Trump. I'd like to see him be as tough with the Democrats and his fellow Republicans on this issue, as he has been with foreign governments.


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Yes I meant the prescription drug plan that increased the deficit and yet had bipartisan support. It wouldn't have had bipartisan support if W had been a democrat. But it did pass with bipartisan support, the GOP wasn't demanding budget cuts than just like they are not now with Trump. And no child left behind wasn't what democrats wanted. Not sure what you're basing that on? When it's a republican president you never have them own the deficit btw.


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It's Thanksgiving. Don't you two lovable knuckleheads have relatives you could argue with?

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 Originally Posted By: the G-man
It's Thanksgiving. Don't you two lovable knuckleheads have relatives you could argue with?


I actually just got off the phone from two calls. I'll be arguing with family about politics later today \:\)
Just kidding.
All my family are Republicans, except for my brother who leans independent but still voted for Trump.

My family in the Detroit area are lifelong Democrats, but even they voted for Trump. So not much arguing at my house.




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