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#1229799 - Fri Sep 27 2019 07:35 PM Impeaching Trump
Matter-eater Man
Online   argumentative Fair Play!

Registered: Sat Jun 07 2003
Posts: 14221
So given recent events it's time for the unofficial Impeaching Trump thread. I don't take impeachment lightly but to me hearing Trump ask a foreign government to investigate his political rival crosses a line. Simply put if Obama had done this I would be very unhappy. Before the rough transcript of Trump's call was released I wasn't on the impeachment bandwagon even though I saw Trump being unfit and corrupt. With '20 right around the corner and him being voted out of office is going to the best form of impeachment. I also doubt enough republicans would actually vote for it no matter what. But Trump crossed a line that I think most people can see. It might feel better attacking the other side but it still doesn't change what Trump did.

Fair play!

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#1229804 - Sat Sep 28 2019 10:05 AM Re: Impeaching Trump [Re: Matter-eater Man]
Matter-eater Man
Online   argumentative Fair Play!

Registered: Sat Jun 07 2003
Posts: 14221
This shows a timeline of events and Trump lying
Slate

Fair play!

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#1229812 - Sun Sep 29 2019 10:43 PM Re: Impeaching Trump [Re: Matter-eater Man]
Wonder Boy
Online   content brutally Kamphausened

Registered: Wed Sep 12 2001
Posts: 20181
Loc: A glorious bold new America

This is, what, the fourth time the Democrats have tried to bring impeachment of Trump to the House for a vote?

And each time it blows up in their faces, and their partisan vindictiveness becomes clear, their lawless manipulation of the system to bring down Trump and enact their Bolshevik revolution by whatever deceit and abuse of power is available to them.



WHISTLEBLOWER FORM RECENTLY MODIFIED TO PERMIT COMPLAINT "HEARD FROM OTHERS", AND NOT FROM A DIRCET FIRSTHAND KNOWLEDGE OF FACTS

 Quote:
As we begin to understand the general outline of how the Schiff Dossier was assembled, we are now starting to get into the specifics. First discovered by researcher Stephen McIntyre, there is now evidence surfacing showing the ICIG recently created an entirely new ‘whistleblower complaint form’ that specifically allowed for the filing of complaints “heard from others“.

Prior to the current “whistleblower complaint” the Intelligence Community Inspector General did not accept whistle-blower claims without first hand knowledge. However, the ICIG revised the protocol in August 2019 allowing for the EXACT type of complaint now registered from the CIA whistleblower.

The IGIC revision was made at the same time HPSCI Chairman Adam Schiff was tweeting in August about President Trump, Rudy Giuliani and holding back funding pending assistance with political opponents. Note the Date: (link)

The timing here is far too coincidental. This was a set-up.

Sean Davis from the Federalist is also hot on the trail.


  • Sean Davis – Between May 2018 and August 2019, the intelligence community secretly eliminated a requirement that whistleblowers provide direct, first-hand knowledge of alleged wrongdoings. This raises questions about the intelligence community’s behavior regarding the August submission of a whistleblower complaint against President Donald Trump. The new complaint document no longer requires potential whistleblowers who wish to have their concerns expedited to Congress to have direct, first-hand knowledge of the alleged wrongdoing that they are reporting.

    The brand new version of the whistleblower complaint form, which was not made public until after the transcript of Trump’s July 25 phone call with the Ukrainian president Volodymyr Zelensky and the complaint addressed to Congress were made public, eliminates the first-hand knowledge requirement and allows employees to file whistleblower complaints even if they have zero direct knowledge of underlying evidence and only “heard about [wrongdoing] from others.”

    The internal properties of the newly revised “Disclosure of Urgent Concern” form, which the intelligence community inspector general (ICIG) requires to be submitted under the Intelligence Community Whistleblower Protection Act (ICWPA), show that the document was uploaded on September 24, 2019, at 4:25 p.m., just days before the anti-Trump complaint was declassified and released to the public. The markings on the document state that it was revised in August 2019, but no specific date of revision is disclosed. (read more)


President Trump announced Joseph Macguire as the Acting ODNI on August 8th, 2019. (link) The CIA operative “whistle-blower” letter to Adam Schiff and Richard Burr was on August 12th (link). Immediately following this letter, the ICIG rules and requirements for “whistle-blowers” was modified, allowing hearsay complaints. On August 28th Adam Schiff begins tweeting about the construct of the complaint.


As Stephen McIntyre notes: “it appears almost certain that, subsequent to the CIA operative “WB” complaint, the DNI introduced a brand new Urgent Disclosure Form which offered a previously unavailable alternative to report allegations with no personal knowledge.”


The prior IGIC complaint form can be viewed via the Wayback Machine – SEE HERE and the new IGIC complaint form that allows hearsay can be compared HERE.

>>>The CIA whistleblower complaint is likely the VERY FIRST complaint allowed using the new IGIC protocol and standard.<<< Taken in combination with the timeline of the August 12th notification letter to Schiff and Burr and the Schiff tweet of August 28th, there’s little room for doubt this Ukraine whistleblower impeachment effort was pre-planned.

Additionally, this coordinated effort ties back-in Intelligence Community Inspector General, Michael K Atkinson.

The center of the Lawfare Alliance influence was/is the Department of Justice National Security Division, DOJ-NSD. It was the DOJ-NSD running the Main Justice side of the 2016 operations to support Operation Crossfire Hurricane and FBI agent Peter Strzok. It was also the DOJ-NSD where the sketchy legal theories around FARA [Foreign Agents Registration Act] violations (Sec. 901) originated.

The Intelligence Community Inspector General (ICIG) is Michael K Atkinson. ICIG Atkinson is the official who accepted the ridiculous premise of a hearsay ‘whistle-blower‘ complaint; an intelligence whistleblower who was “blowing-the-whistle” based on second hand information of a phone call without any direct personal knowledge, ie ‘hearsay‘.

Michael K Atkinson was previously the Senior Counsel to the Assistant Attorney General of the National Security Division of the Department of Justice (DOJ-NSD) in 2016. That makes Atkinson senior legal counsel to John Carlin and Mary McCord who were the former heads of the DOJ-NSD in 2016 when the stop Trump operation was underway.


[Irony Reminder: The DOJ-NSD was purposefully under no IG oversight. In 2015 the OIG requested oversight and it was Sally Yates who responded with a lengthy 58 page legal explanation saying, essentially, ‘nope – not allowed.’ (PDF HERE) All of the DOJ is subject to oversight, except the NSD.]

Put another way, Michael Atkinson was the lawyer for the same DOJ-NSD players who: (1) lied to the FISA court (Judge Rosemary Collyer) about the 80% non compliant NSA database abuse using FBI contractors; (2) filed the FISA application against Carter Page; and (3) used FARA violations as tools for political surveillance and political targeting.

Yes, that means Michael Atkinson was Senior Counsel for the DOJ-NSD, at the very epicenter of the political weaponization and FISA abuse.

Immediately after the Carter Page FISA warrant is approved, in the period where DOJ-NSD head John Carlin has given his notice of intent to leave but not yet left, inside those specific two weeks, the National Security Division of the DOJ tells the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court (FISC) they have been breaking the law. The NSD specifically inform the court they are aware of contractors who have been using FISA 702(16)(17) database search queries to extract information on political candidates.

DOJ Inspector General Michael Horowitz has looked into the FISA application used against U.S. Person Carter Page. Additionally, U.S. Attorney John Durham is said to be looking at the intelligence communities’ use of systems for spying and surveillance.


the DOJ-NSD exploitation of the NSA database, and/or DOJ-NSD FISA abuse, and/or DOJ-NSD FARA corruption were ever to reach sunlight, current ICIG Atkinson -as the lawyer for the process- would be under a lot of scrutiny for his involvement.

Yes, that gives current ICIG Michael Atkinson a strong and corrupt motive to participate with the Schiff/Lawfare impeachment objective.

Atkinson’s conflict-of-self-interest, and/or possible blackmail upon him by deep state actors who most certainly know his compromise, likely influenced his approach to this whistleblower complaint. That would explain why the Dept. of Justice Office of Legal Counsel so strongly rebuked Atkinson’s interpretation of his responsibility with the complaint.

In the Justice Department’s OLC opinion, they point out that Atkinson’s internal justification for accepting the whistleblower complaint was poor legal judgement. [See Here] I would say Atkinson’s decision is directly related to his own risk exposure:

Within a heavy propaganda report from the New York Times there are also details about the Intelligence Community Inspector General that show the tell-tale fingerprints of the ICIG supportive intent (emphasis mine):

  • […] Mr. Atkinson, a Trump appointee, nevertheless concluded that the allegations appeared to be credible and identified two layers of concern.

    The first involved a possible violation of criminal law. Mr. Trump’s comments to Mr. Zelensky “could be viewed as soliciting a foreign campaign contribution in violation of the campaign-finance laws,” Mr. Atkinson wrote, according to the Justice Department memo. (read more)


Does the “foreign campaign contribution” angle sound familiar? It should, because that argument was used in the narrative around the Trump Tower meeting with the Russian Lobbyist Natalia Veselnitskaya. More specifically, just like FARA violations the overused “campaign contribution” narrative belongs to a specific network of characters, Lawfare.

The “Schiff Dossier”, aka “whistle-blower” complaint was a constructed effort of allied members within congress and the intelligence apparatus to renew the impeachment effort. The intelligence team, including the ICIG, changed the whistleblower form to allow the CIA to insert the Schiff Dossier, written by Lawfare.

The Soft-Coup effort continues…



Further, as reported on One America News all day today, the change of the "whistleblower form" to expand from first-person/eyewitness accounts only to third-person hearsay was JUST APPROVED. That approval had to be at a high level, most likely CIA director Gina Haspel. And very recently.
Gina Haspel, it turns out, was very close to former CIA director (and vocal Trump hater, and leftist/communisst) John Brennan. It turns out many of Haspel's closest assistants are former Brennan staffers, and one former Brennan staffer in particular came out of retirement to serve agaain in Haspel's CIA. Brennan is also thought to be the architect of the Russia Hoax that has kept Trump buried in investigation for almost 3 years.
So it's highly suspect --highly suspect-- that this whistleblower form was recently changed under cover of darkness by Haspel, and then as soon as the ink dries, the first whistleblower allegation under the new rules is President Trump himself!
Highly suspicious.

From the chosen successor of Russia Hoax architect Brennan and his closest deep state lieutenants, no less.

While Brennan still ran the CIA, Haspel was assingned to London, at the exact time Christopher Steelee and Fusion GPS were putting together the Russia Dossier to smear Trump.
And who else from the FBI was in London at the exact same time (an overseas assignment normally given to a lower-level FBI agent)?
Peter Strzok.

The plot thckens, doesn't it?


Ignoring all the above:
1) Who is Trump's "whistleblower" accuser?
2) What EXACTLY is Trump accused of doing?
3) What corroborating evidence is there of the unknown allegation Trump is accused of?

This is so clearly a set-up, and the Democrats are trying to rush this presidential coup along before the public realizes they've been bamboozled by the Democrats and the Deep State. AGAIN .

It's insane.




  • from Do Racists have lower IQ's...

    Liberals who bemoan discrimination, intolerance, restraint of Constitutional freedoms, and promotion of hatred toward various abberant minorities, have absolutely no problem with discriminating against, being intolerant of, restricting Constitutional freedoms of, and directing hate-filled scapegoat rhetoric against conservatives.

    EXACTLY what they accuse Republicans/conservatives of doing, is EXACTLY what liberals/Democrats do themselves, to those who oppose their beliefs.

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#1229813 - Sun Sep 29 2019 11:04 PM Re: Impeaching Trump [Re: Wonder Boy]
Wonder Boy
Online   content brutally Kamphausened

Registered: Wed Sep 12 2001
Posts: 20181
Loc: A glorious bold new America


Also, the "whistleblower" report is intended to be used to report problems in the intelligence field (FBI, CIA, NSA, and others within the 17 total federal intelligence agencies). It was never intended to include launching reports on the President, who isn't even part of the intelligence field.

It's an unprecedented stretch to have a whistleblower report that doesn't have direct firsthand knowledge. JUST CHANGED.

And it's an unprecedented stretch to have that whistleblower system stretched to attack the president himself.

It's so obvious what the Democrats and his enemies in the bureaucratic Deep State system are trying to do. By any other name, it is a coup, a power grab, a scam, a hustle.


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#1229815 - Sun Sep 29 2019 11:10 PM Re: Impeaching Trump [Re: Wonder Boy]
Matter-eater Man
Online   argumentative Fair Play!

Registered: Sat Jun 07 2003
Posts: 14221
i don't see how you can blame democrats for Trump asking a foreign country to investigate his political rival. Trump did that on his own. The whistleblower has given a lot of names but Trump's release of the rough transcript is what I think will end up fucking him in the end. It's very black and white that Trump asked the Ukrainian president to investigate Biden with his personal lawyer and Barr assisting. I do not for a minute think you would be okay if that had been Obama asking a foreign power to do that to a republican.

Fair play!

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#1229816 - Sun Sep 29 2019 11:37 PM Re: Impeaching Trump [Re: Matter-eater Man]
Wonder Boy
Online   content brutally Kamphausened

Registered: Wed Sep 12 2001
Posts: 20181
Loc: A glorious bold new America
 Originally Posted By: Matter-eater Man
So given recent events it's time for the unofficial Impeaching Trump thread. I don't take impeachment lightly but to me hearing Trump ask a foreign government to investigate his political rival crosses a line.


Trump had a very routine conversation with Ukranian president Zelensky, where Trump demanded nothing, and asked "if you could..." for Zelensky to have his legal staff send what they knew about the Ukranian interference in the 2016 election, and Crowdstrike, and the corruption investigation of Hunter Biden. Which by the way, Zelensky, not Trump, first raised in their phone conversation.

No demands, no threats, no quid pro qquo, just a simple request for information. And in point of fact, information that the Ukranians had repeatedly offered for 3 years to a Hillary/Obama-loyalist deep state FBI/DOJ, that had repeatedly been ignored by an FBI/DOJ completely indifferent to investigating it.



 Originally Posted By: M E M
Simply put if Obama had done this I would be very unhappy.


Uh...

OBAMA [to Medvedev secretly]: "This is my last election, I can be much more flexible after the election..."

MEDVEDEV [eagerly!]: "I will transmit this information to Vladimir!"

Not to mention the threats in a letter to Ukraine from Senators Leahy, Menendez and Durbin, that made very clear that aid to Ukraine was completely dependent on cooperating with the Democrats to defame Trump in 2016.

Not to mention the Russia Dosssier funded by the DNC and the Hillary Clinton campaign, paying about $2 million dollars to Russian agents, two of whom were Russian intelligence chiefs.

What an amazing double-standard you have, M E M, to turn a complete blind eye to the blatant criminality and collaborative treason by your fellow Democrats.

 Originally Posted By: M E M
Before the rough transcript of Trump's call was released I wasn't on the impeachment bandwagon even though I saw Trump being unfit and corrupt. With '20 right around the corner and him being voted out of office is going to the best form of impeachment. I also doubt enough republicans would actually vote for it no matter what. But Trump crossed a line that I think most people can see. It might feel better attacking the other side but it still doesn't change what Trump did.


Specifically WHAT ?!?!?
Nothing specific has been disclosed by the whistleblower. It is even clear he/she has no firsthand knowledge about Trump's call, only hearsay. Many Republican Senate and House members have said that when Trump 100% disclosed the minutes of his phone call, more was disclosed by Trump than could possibly hyave been known by the "whistleblower"! Period. The end.
There is nothing revealed that would suddenly warrant an impeachment trial, no new information.

The Democrat logic is: We hate Trump. We suport any contrivance that has a snowball's chance of deposing Trump.
But it doesn't. Not even all the Democrats in the House will support impeachment.
And even if it passed the House, the Senate has a majority of Republicans, who will never vote for impeachment. Not because Republicans have a corrupt partisan loyalty, but because there is no logical reason to impeach Trump. You can't even put into words a lucid thesis of what Trump is guilty of. Because it is a Democrat lie.

  • from Do Racists have lower IQ's...

    Liberals who bemoan discrimination, intolerance, restraint of Constitutional freedoms, and promotion of hatred toward various abberant minorities, have absolutely no problem with discriminating against, being intolerant of, restricting Constitutional freedoms of, and directing hate-filled scapegoat rhetoric against conservatives.

    EXACTLY what they accuse Republicans/conservatives of doing, is EXACTLY what liberals/Democrats do themselves, to those who oppose their beliefs.

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#1229819 - Mon Sep 30 2019 07:41 AM Re: Impeaching Trump [Re: Wonder Boy]
the G-man
Offline Officially "too old for this shit"

Registered: Fri May 16 2003
Posts: 43552
Loc: the right
The next presidential election is only a little over a year away. The fact that the Democrats are talking impeachment at this late date seems a tacit admission they can’t beat Trump at the ballot box
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#1229820 - Mon Sep 30 2019 08:22 PM Re: Impeaching Trump [Re: the G-man]
Matter-eater Man
Online   argumentative Fair Play!

Registered: Sat Jun 07 2003
Posts: 14221
I think given what was in the rough call transcript that was released, Trump's actions demand it. And considering that republicans control the Senate I don't understand your logic. To remove Trump from office it would require more than a couple republicans to vote with Dems.

And WB it is not routine for a president to ask a foreign power to specifically investigate his political rival while withholding military aid.

Fair play!

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#1229822 - Mon Sep 30 2019 09:31 PM Re: Impeaching Trump [Re: Matter-eater Man]
Matter-eater Man
Online   argumentative Fair Play!

Registered: Sat Jun 07 2003
Posts: 14221
Fact check-Were the whistleblower blower rules change?

Another conspiracy theory debunked.

Fair play!

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#1229825 - Tue Oct 01 2019 03:00 AM Re: Impeaching Trump [Re: Matter-eater Man]
Wonder Boy
Online   content brutally Kamphausened

Registered: Wed Sep 12 2001
Posts: 20181
Loc: A glorious bold new America
 Originally Posted By: Matter-eater Man
Fact check-Were the whistleblower blower rules change?

Another conspiracy theory debunked.



Factcheck = Washington Post

Politifact = Tampa Tribune

Both are centerpieces of the Hate Trump (and really, Hate Republican) liberal media.

As I've cited before, 75% of their "factchecks" target Republicans, and only 25% of the time do they factcheck Democrats, to have some semblance of balanced non-partisan scrutiny.
And I've read many, MANY "factchecks" where I know for certain that Trump or some other Republican was 100% accurate in their public statements, but the "factcheck" sites label it as "partially true" or "somewhat true" by straining to find some context that wasn't covered in the comments. When Trump or whoever answers questions at a press conference for 10 minutes, or even 45 minutes, it is impossible to cover every nuance in a brief answer, no matter how much one tries.
And Republicans --of course!-- are subject to far more scrutiny in their comments, whereas liberal statements are just accepted as true without challenge by liberal reporters and interviewers.

One comment I can recall by Trump was where he talked about islamic immigration to Sweden, that has resulted in a more than doubling of rape statistics there (roughly the time Trump made his "shithole nations" comment).
The liberal media and factcheckers labelled Trump ignorant and racist and "partly true" at best in his comments. Within a week, the true facts revealed that Trump's comments were 100% true.

And fuck the liberal "factcheckers". It is another attempt by the liberal media to hide behind a false veil of pseudo-objectivity, that they truly don't have. They are liberal media propagandists. And Snopes is another liberal apologist site. They are right sometimes, but even a broken clock is right twice a day.


  • from Do Racists have lower IQ's...

    Liberals who bemoan discrimination, intolerance, restraint of Constitutional freedoms, and promotion of hatred toward various abberant minorities, have absolutely no problem with discriminating against, being intolerant of, restricting Constitutional freedoms of, and directing hate-filled scapegoat rhetoric against conservatives.

    EXACTLY what they accuse Republicans/conservatives of doing, is EXACTLY what liberals/Democrats do themselves, to those who oppose their beliefs.

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