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#1230236 - Sun Nov 17 2019 08:41 PM the Sub-Mariner's 80th birthday
First Amongst Daves
Offline Banned from the DCMBs since 2002.

Registered: Wed Jan 23 2002
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https://www.worldcomicbookreview.com/2019/11/15/happy-80th-birthday-to-the-sub-mariner/

Just in case you couldn't tell from the article, I've never been overly enthused about this character. He's always struck me as a complete dick.

Remarkable longevity for a complete dick with pointy ears and green underpants, though.

Namor isn't Superman, but this went by without so much as a murmur from Marvel - Marvel's first superhero (when you follow back Marvel's corporate pedigree), published in Marvel Comics #1 in October 1939. A monumental omission. Even the New York Times wrote an article about it. this is especially so since online speculation is that Namor will be the villain in the next Black Panther movie.

Pimping my site, again.

http://www.worldcomicbookreview.com


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#1230240 - Mon Nov 18 2019 06:57 AM Re: the Sub-Mariner's 80th birthday [Re: First Amongst Daves]
the G-man
Offline Officially "too old for this shit"

Registered: Fri May 16 2003
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Loc: the right
Nice article. Well done.
For some reason, I always thought the torch was the first. Maybe because he appeared on the cover of Marvel comics one?

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#1230241 - Mon Nov 18 2019 08:34 AM Re: the Sub-Mariner's 80th birthday [Re: the G-man]
Son of Mxy
Offline Son of Anarchist

Registered: Thu Mar 04 2004
Posts: 17781
The fuck are you guys still doing in this forum?


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#1230243 - Mon Nov 18 2019 07:58 PM Re: the Sub-Mariner's 80th birthday [Re: the G-man]
First Amongst Daves
Offline Banned from the DCMBs since 2002.

Registered: Wed Jan 23 2002
Posts: 15169
A sense of nostalgia. Its almost 20 years since I started posting here. If you're very quiet, you can just about hear the transistors sparking, the gear driven rubber pulleys squeaking, and the pneumatic pumps pushing Rob's bodily fluids about all keeping the board alive.

 Originally Posted By: the G-man
Nice article. Well done.
For some reason, I always thought the torch was the first. Maybe because he appeared on the cover of Marvel comics one?


Thanks.

Hmm, not sure. Marvel didn't make a fuss about the Torch either, thinking about it.

Pimping my site, again.

http://www.worldcomicbookreview.com


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#1230245 - Mon Nov 18 2019 08:51 PM Re: the Sub-Mariner's 80th birthday [Re: First Amongst Daves]
Wonder Boy
Online   content brutally Kamphausened

Registered: Wed Sep 12 2001
Posts: 20425
Loc: A glorious bold new America
 Originally Posted By: First Amongst Daves
I've never been overly enthused about this character. He's always struck me as a complete dick.



\:lol\:

Yeah, Namor is always portrayed as having an arrogant sense of superiority to every other character he shares adventures with. He has a disdain for humans, and seems to feel a racial superiority to humanity.

Except for Susan Richards, with whom he always wants to slip the hot beef injection.


To me the quintessential Sub-Mariner artist is Bill Everett, and despite reading Bill Everett stories from the time I began reading comics in 1972 (starting with FEAR 10, Oct 1972), I was unaware at that time in the pre-internet days that Everet had died.
Everett unfortunately died very young in 1973, at the age of 55. He was working on the last of about a year's worth of SUB-MARINER stories for Marvel at the time of his sudden death.

I think I liked Sub-Mariner best in the Lee/Kirby FANTASTIC FOUR issues, and some later appearances by artists like Perez, Buckler, Giffen, Golden and Byrne.
There was a 1988 12-issue SAGA OF SUB-MARINER series by Roy Thomas and Rich Bucker, that despite being all-encompaassing in explaining Namor's continuity and having nice art, I found rather dull.

Reading the issues the character appeared in during Byrne's FF and ALPHA FLIGHT runs, it's ambiguous, but I always read it with the notion that he cuckolded Reed Richards.
So, yeah, something of a dick.


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#1230246 - Mon Nov 18 2019 09:06 PM Re: the Sub-Mariner's 80th birthday [Re: Wonder Boy]
Wonder Boy
Online   content brutally Kamphausened

Registered: Wed Sep 12 2001
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Loc: A glorious bold new America


The term antihero seems to have emerged in the early 1960's. I recall a comment by Psycho author Robert Bloch in a 1967 introduction, saying that a book he had written in the early 1950's came out again in a new edition, and he was surprised in the back-cover summary (written by the publisher) that the protagonist of the story he'd written as a villain, was in the new edition described a decade later as an "anti-hero". That he was disturbed by the slow warping of values over the intervening 10 years displayed in that description.



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#1230248 - Tue Nov 19 2019 09:15 PM Re: the Sub-Mariner's 80th birthday [Re: Wonder Boy]
the G-man
Offline Officially "too old for this shit"

Registered: Fri May 16 2003
Posts: 43612
Loc: the right
 Quote:
Except for Susan Richards, with whom he always wants to slip the hot beef injection.


In Namor's case, wouldn't that be the hot tuna injection?

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#1230249 - Wed Nov 20 2019 12:50 AM Re: the Sub-Mariner's 80th birthday [Re: the G-man]
Wonder Boy
Online   content brutally Kamphausened

Registered: Wed Sep 12 2001
Posts: 20425
Loc: A glorious bold new America


I can't say for sure, I'm not an expert on aquatic hard-ons.

So I played it safe and went for the beef allegory.

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#1230250 - Wed Nov 20 2019 01:09 AM Re: the Sub-Mariner's 80th birthday [Re: Wonder Boy]
Wonder Boy
Online   content brutally Kamphausened

Registered: Wed Sep 12 2001
Posts: 20425
Loc: A glorious bold new America


Back on the subject of Namor as an 80-year-old character, I think Stan Lee did a remarkably good job of bringing Golden Age Timely/Marvel characters into Marvel's 1960's Silver Age:

* Sub-Mariner had multiple good stories in FANTASTIC FOUR (issues 4, 6, 9, 14, 27, 33, and ANNUAL 1) it was only when Namor got his own monthly series that he turned dull, largely for me due to the lackluster Gene Colan art.
* The Golden Age Human Torch (an android) was brought out of mothballs and re-created as the Vision in AVENGERS 57.
* And Captain America frozen for 20 years in a block of ice, and worshipped by Eskimos, a cult viewed with disdain by Namor, who thows him two decades later into the ocean to thaw, where he is pulled out and rescued by the Avengers (in AVENGERS 4).

All these are enduring classics in the Marvel canon. (I don't recall Lee's earlier Dec 1953- Oct 1955 attempts to revive these characters ever being reprinted. The 22nd OVERSTREET PRICE GUIDE, 1992, has a great and lengthy 17-page article on that Atlas/Marvel transition period, from 1953-1962)


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#1230254 - Wed Nov 20 2019 08:15 AM Re: the Sub-Mariner's 80th birthday [Re: Wonder Boy]
the G-man
Offline Officially "too old for this shit"

Registered: Fri May 16 2003
Posts: 43612
Loc: the right
 Quote:
* Sub-Mariner had multiple good stories in FANTASTIC FOUR (issues 4, 6, 9, 14, 27, 33, and ANNUAL 1) it was only when Namor got his own monthly series that he turned dull, largely for me due to the lackluster Gene Colan art.


More than the art, I think the real factor is that Namor has, outside of World War II (when he was battling the Axis), never worked as well as a hero as he does as a villain. Marvel should just admit that fact and make him one of the big-three bad guys in their canon, along with doom and magneto

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