#18045
2003-05-13 5:15 PM
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quote:
Miramix will finance and distribute Michael Moore's next documentary, Fahrenheit 911. The film will explore how the Bush administration used the 9/11 tragedy to push its own political agenda. The movie will also touch on how America is perceived overseas.
Moore's documentaries include Roger & Me and Bowling for Columbine. He recently made a controversial speech at the Oscars bashing President Bush and the War in Iraq.
Credit: DrudgeReport.com
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#18046
2003-05-13 6:17 PM
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Oh, he's the one that's biased?
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#18047
2003-05-13 8:01 PM
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He certainly ain't "objective"...
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#18048
2003-05-13 9:44 PM
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Yeah, his flicks don't search for truth they seriously push agendas.
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#18049
2003-05-13 9:57 PM
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He should do a documentary on Weight Watchers or maybe Jenny Craig. He is a complete and total ass.....and that's a big ass. ![[yuh huh]](images/icons/rolleyes.gif)
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#18050
2003-05-15 4:41 PM
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1 post
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I'd rather get my news and information from Michael Moore than any of the current news networks, or the government, I'll have to say.
If there are connections between the Bushes and the Bin Ladens, how exactly is it biased to bring those connections to light?
--Rich
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#18051
2003-05-15 4:54 PM
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![[eh?]](images/icons/confused.gif) You really are a deer in the headlights, aren't you? Moore has used his documentaries to push his own political agenda by dileberately ignoring and/or altering facts. He's not looking at things objectively as much as he is through his own political slant. His letter to Bush showed how he was unable to see what was happening beyond his own beliefs. He claimed that no one supported the war when Bush's approval rating were still very high and people were holding rallies to support Bush and the troops overseas. He's biased and a horrible documentarian.
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#18052
2003-05-15 10:16 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by thedoctor:
You really are a deer in the headlights, aren't you?
Moore has used his documentaries to push his own political agenda by dileberately ignoring and/or altering facts. He's not looking at things objectively as much as he is through his own political slant. His letter to Bush showed how he was unable to see what was happening beyond his own beliefs. He claimed that no one supported the war when Bush's approval rating were still very high and people were holding rallies to support Bush and the troops overseas. He's biased and a horrible documentarian.
You forgot to say he's fat.......and a dummy.....he's a fat dummy. ![[mwah hwah haa]](graemlins/devil.gif)
I'll be happy when he fades away into that dark good night.
Post 100 yippee. ![[woooOOOOoooo!]](graemlins/smilewoo.gif)
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#18053
2003-05-15 10:43 PM
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1 post
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Any particular viewpoint is going to be one-sided, as is most any particular investigative report. If you're doing a documentary on how a car company has left your town in ruins, or how guns are affecting the culture, naturally you are going to try to bolster that viewpoint. I think his plans for Fahrenheit 911, at least from what I've read, are a bit different from either of the movies he's done before, and I hope that Disney doesn't turn chickenshit on the financing, as it would be nice to see the Disney-fuehrer's actually do something worthwhile for once.
While I will admit that Moore's become a tad full of himself as of late, at least he does get a few facts out that the mainstream media refuses to even look at.
--Rich
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#18054
2003-05-15 10:53 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Greg Saunders Fan:
I think his plans for Fahrenheit 911, at least from what I've read, are a bit different from either of the movies he's done before,
I doubt it. Look at his track record. It doesn't show a man capable of stepping back from his own view point to look at something objectively.
I'm not going to go on a rant and call him names. He's done some very funny stuff. Canadian Bacon is a riot. I even like the fact that he sent checks to Presidential candidates from groups he made up with names that mentioned Nazis, pedophilia, and such. But even with all these to his credit, he's still a very opionated person to the point that he alter's reality to fit his agenda. That's not documentary making. That's making propoganda.
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#18056
2003-05-16 12:24 AM
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Like I said, he altered the facts. He edited and spliced video footage and audio of different speeches in order to create one speech that help serve his own political purpose. He made statements that were totally false. And someone here said that he could be objective in making a film. I highly doubt it.
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#18057
2003-05-16 12:40 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by thedoctor:
Like I said, he altered the facts. He edited and spliced video footage and audio of different speeches in order to create one speech that help serve his own political purpose. He made statements that were totally false. And someone here said that he could be objective in making a film. I highly doubt it.
I had read about this too - about Moore's splicing video and pasting it in such a way that what the person originally said and what comes out in the film are two totally different things.
I understand that everyone has a bias - for every Bernie Goldberg there is an Eric Alterman - but someone like Moore leans so far one way that he's lost perspective....
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#18058
2003-05-16 2:28 AM
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And I think its kind of sad because what does this say about the documentaries that didn't win an Oscar this year? If you didn't say something we wanted to hear, forget about winning. What's going to happen if Moore presses on in the art of making a documentary will become a joke.
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#18059
2003-05-16 3:41 AM
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Yerla ll just whining cause he steped on yer boots. I`d like to see an example of facts he ignored BTW.
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#18060
2003-05-16 5:04 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Fragman:
Yerla ll just whining cause he steped on yer boots. I`d like to see an example of facts he ignored BTW.
NO NO NO......I'm not whining because of that....it's true I don't agree with him at all....I'm a fairly Right-Leaning guy.......but I am whining because he ate my chicken wings and my nachos and my ice cream sundae and my cheeseburger and my doritos and my lasagna and my..........man he's a Fat Fuck. ![[worst. icon. ever.]](graemlins/comicguy-icon00.gif)
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#18061
2003-05-16 9:21 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Fragman:
Yerla ll just whining cause he steped on yer boots. I`d like to see an example of facts he ignored BTW.
Here ya go:
quote:
3. Animated sequence equating NRA with KKK. In an animated history send-up, with the narrator talking rapidly, Bowling equates the NRA with the Klan, suggesting NRA was founded in 1871, "the same year that the Klan became an illegal terrorist organization." Bowling goes on to depict Klansmen becoming the NRA and an NRA character helping to light a burning cross.
This sequence is intended to create the impression either that NRA and the Klan were parallel groups or that when the Klan was outlawed its members formed the NRA.
Both impressions are not merely false, but directly opposed to the real facts.
Fact: The NRA was founded in 1871 -- by act of the New York Legislature, at request of former Union officers. The Klan was founded in 1866, and quickly became a terrorist organization. One might claim that while it was an organization and a terrorist one, it technically became an "illegal" such with passage of the federal Ku Klux Klan Act and Enforcement Act in 1871. These criminalized interference with civil rights, and empowered the President to use troops to suppress the Klan.
Fact: The Klan Act and Enforcement Act were signed into law by President Ulysess S. Grant. Grant used their provisions vigorously, suspending habeas corpus and deploying troops; under his leadership over 5,000 arrests were made and the Klan was dealt a serious (if all too short-lived) blow.
Fact: Grant's vigor in disrupting the Klan earned him unpopularity among many whites, but Frederick Douglass praised him, and an associate of Douglass wrote that African-Americans "will ever cherish a grateful remembrance of his name, fame and great services."
Fact: After Grant left the White House, the NRA elected him as its eighth president.
Fact: After Grant's term, the NRA elected General Philip Sheridan, who had removed the governors of Texas and Lousiana for failure to suppress the KKK.
Fact: The affinity of NRA for enemies of the Klan is hardly surprising. The NRA was founded by former Union officers, and eight of its first ten presidents were Union veterans.
Fact: During the 1950s and 1960s, groups of blacks organized as NRA chapters in order to obtain surplus military rifles to fight off Klansmen.
He ignored the histories of the NRA and the KKK and their members. He elected to disregard the fact that the NRA has helped in the fight against the racist group.
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#18062
2003-05-16 9:25 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by PJP:
NO NO NO......I'm not whining because of that....it's true I don't agree with him at all....I'm a fairly Right-Leaning guy.......but I am whining because he ate my chicken wings and my nachos and my ice cream sundae and my cheeseburger and my doritos and my lasagna and my..........man he's a Fat Fuck.
Yeah, yeah. You've stated that twice. And it was real funny. No. Really. It was.
Anyways, just for the sake of this thread, why don't you try to formulate a little more civil and intelligent reply? I know this isn't the Deep Thoughts Forum, but I think this is the closest thing this forum will have to an intellectual debate.
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#18063
2003-05-16 11:13 AM
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Joined: Aug 2001
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Biased documentary making is a perfectly acceptable genre in it's own right.
There are documentaries made that look at a subject matter objectively. Many of these are great.
And then, like Moore's work, there are movies which push an agenda. Movies that are made so that the filmmaker can express their opinions. It is a very different genre to the first, but it is an acceptable one in it's own right.
You can argue how well Moore pulled this off. And you can argue how appropriate it was for the film to be nominated for an Oscar. But you can't attack the genre itself. It's like saying you can't write a book or a comic or a song that expresses your opinion.
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#18064
2003-05-16 11:25 AM
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A documentary is supposed to be an objective look at a subject or subject matter. Admittedly, the filmmaker's bias is going to leak in and taint the content a bit. But that is mostly due to a subconcious level of thought that surfaces during post production. But to dileberatley and knowingly alter facts is not acceptable in documentary filmmaking. It changes the film to another genre.
I don't care that Moore made Bowling. Yes, he is entitled to his opinion. And if he can get the money to make am movie based on it, then he has a right to do that to. I am a little pissed that he mislabled it as a documentary and that the Academy fell for it and gave him an Oscar in that category. His film does not even meet the Academy's criteria for a documentary. I've pretty much thought of the Oscars as a joke for years. Moore winning proved me right.
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#18065
2003-05-16 1:14 PM
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Moore set out to show some weird things in the US culture. He searched for some things and he found them. He didnt try to make an complete documentary of the american culture. It was a specific thing he was trying to show and he managed to do so. If you think there is another side to it too then noone hiners you to go out there and to show that other side of the picture at all.
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#18066
2003-05-16 2:56 PM
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If you're going to post here, I require that you make sense and at least try to understand what's going on and being said.
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#18067
2003-05-16 2:58 PM
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Enlighten me. What part didnt make sense?
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#18068
2003-05-17 3:07 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Fragman:
Enlighten me. What part didnt make sense?
This:
quote:
Originally posted by Fragman:
Moore set out to show some weird things in the US culture. He searched for some things and he found them. He didnt try to make an complete documentary of the american culture. It was a specific thing he was trying to show and he managed to do so. If you think there is another side to it too then noone hiners you to go out there and to show that other side of the picture at all.
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#18069
2003-05-17 3:25 AM
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Ok, Frogman, it seems real apparent that you know nothing of Moore's work. Even the films that he did decide to label as fiction carry his political agenda, but at least you can laugh at it openly. He didn't set out to find something weird. For your information Bowling for Columbine is about the school shootings several years ago. Not weird but tragic. And in filming his "documentary" he falseifed information and alter facts to fit his agenda for the film, which was supposed to be "Guns-BAD! Guns-BAD!"
Now, if you want to defend him, use actual facts and support your opinions with them. That's how we grown-ups do it.
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#18070
2003-05-17 3:30 AM
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I dont think Grown ups get pissed over opposing views as much as you do. Its perfectly legal for Moore to draw his own conclusions about Litleton. Fact is thats its harder to do such stuff if you dont have a weapon. And Moore made a point of showing how easy its to get them in the USA. If thats to complicated for you to understand then You better take one of those glorious weapons and use them to put a bullet to your faggot head.
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#18071
2003-05-17 3:39 AM
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One, if you would read, you would understand that I have no problem with him stating his own views in a movie no matter how different they are from mine. My arguement is that he used deception and tactics that take his film out of the realm of a documentary. That is my main assertion in this thread. Not his opposeing political stance.
Your last post actually had a bit of logic in it that time, yet you have still not shown an ability to understand what is being said here.
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#18072
2003-05-16 4:08 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Fragman:
If thats to complicated for you to understand then You better take one of those glorious weapons and use them to put a bullet to your faggot head.
I know not why people insist on putting that Nazis stereotype on the German people.
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#18073
2003-05-16 5:02 PM
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Joined: May 2003
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quote:
Originally posted by thedoctor:
quote:
Originally posted by PJP:
NO NO NO......I'm not whining because of that....it's true I don't agree with him at all....I'm a fairly Right-Leaning guy.......but I am whining because he ate my chicken wings and my nachos and my ice cream sundae and my cheeseburger and my doritos and my lasagna and my..........man he's a Fat Fuck.
Yeah, yeah. You've stated that twice. And it was real funny. No. Really. It was.
Anyways, just for the sake of this thread, why don't you try to formulate a little more civil and intelligent reply? I know this isn't the Deep Thoughts Forum, but I think this is the closest thing this forum will have to an intellectual debate.
Dude I agree with everything you're saying. I'm on your side.....lighten up. I'm just screwing around. I hate Moore and I agree.... he uses lies and inuendos (an Italian suppository for those who don't know what that word means) and tries to portray them as fact to push his agenda. I'm with you. If you'd like me to leave you alone with Fragman I will. By the way Fragman you know nothing of the USA.
PS my last post before this was funny. You're on your own from here on out. Peace.
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#18074
2003-05-16 5:02 PM
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Joined: May 2003
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quote:
Originally posted by thedoctor:
quote:
Originally posted by Fragman:
If thats to complicated for you to understand then You better take one of those glorious weapons and use them to put a bullet to your faggot head.
I know not why people insist on putting that Nazis stereotype on the German people.
LOL.
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#18075
2003-05-16 6:07 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by thedoctor:
quote:
Originally posted by Fragman:
If thats to complicated for you to understand then You better take one of those glorious weapons and use them to put a bullet to your faggot head.
I know not why people insist on putting that Nazis stereotype on the German people.
And I now better then ever understand why people keep insisting on putting that retard stereotype on american people.
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#18076
2003-05-16 7:28 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Fragman:
And I now better then ever understand why people keep insisting on putting that retard stereotype on american people.
Did your mommy forget to help you formulate your comebacks again?
quote:
Originally posted by PJP:
Dude I agree with everything you're saying. I'm on your side.....lighten up. I'm just screwing around. I hate Moore and I agree.... he uses lies and inuendos (an Italian suppository for those who don't know what that word means) and tries to portray them as fact to push his agenda. I'm with you. If you'd like me to leave you alone with Fragman I will.
It's not about agreeing or disagreeing with me. I don't care about that. I just wanted to have a discussion where people didn't just throw out insults at Moore. If you don't like him, tell us why in a more rational and toned down way. Hell, you can even use fuck if you want. I just want a little more explination, that's all.
That's why this little rift between me and Frogman started. He just came in here to piss everyone off by typeing stuff that only seemed like it had to do with the topic when the topic wasn't really political as much as artistic (as in what constitues a documentary film and if Moore did or did not actually create one with Columbine). Post to your heart's content. Just be as thoughtful as you are vocal, that's all I'm asking.
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#18077
2003-05-16 9:26 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by thedoctor:
quote:
Originally posted by Fragman:
And I now better then ever understand why people keep insisting on putting that retard stereotype on american people.
Did your mommy forget to help you formulate your comebacks again?
quote:
Originally posted by PJP:
Dude I agree with everything you're saying. I'm on your side.....lighten up. I'm just screwing around. I hate Moore and I agree.... he uses lies and inuendos (an Italian suppository for those who don't know what that word means) and tries to portray them as fact to push his agenda. I'm with you. If you'd like me to leave you alone with Fragman I will.
It's not about agreeing or disagreeing with me. I don't care about that. I just wanted to have a discussion where people didn't just throw out insults at Moore. If you don't like him, tell us why in a more rational and toned down way. Hell, you can even use fuck if you want. I just want a little more explination, that's all.
That's why this little rift between me and Frogman started. He just came in here to piss everyone off by typeing stuff that only seemed like it had to do with the topic when the topic wasn't really political as much as artistic (as in what constitues a documentary film and if Moore did or did not actually create one with Columbine). Post to your heart's content. Just be as thoughtful as you are vocal, that's all I'm asking.
No problem....good topic. Keep up the good fight.
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#18078
2003-05-17 2:20 AM
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It is my duty to.
Warning! This poster has consumed too much alcohol! Phrases contained in this post may make little to no sense!
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#18079
2003-05-17 2:34 AM
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lol now those where funny. :lol:
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#18080
2003-05-17 1:37 PM
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Joined: Oct 2000
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quote:
Originally posted by Fragman:
I dont think Grown ups get pissed over opposing views as much as you do. Its perfectly legal for Moore to draw his own conclusions about Litleton. Fact is thats its harder to do such stuff if you dont have a weapon. And Moore made a point of showing how easy its to get them in the USA. If thats to complicated for you to understand then You better take one of those glorious weapons and use them to put a bullet to your faggot head.
"I dont think Grown ups get pissed over opposing views as much as you do."
"them to put a bullet to your faggot head."
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!! I love watching idiots hang/insult themselves! Fragman you get the New Idiot award wear it with pride, wear it externally!
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#18081
2003-05-17 1:37 PM
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Joined: Oct 2000
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#18082
2003-05-17 1:45 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by britneyspearsatemyshorts:
quote:
Originally posted by Fragman:
I dont think Grown ups get pissed over opposing views as much as you do. Its perfectly legal for Moore to draw his own conclusions about Litleton. Fact is thats its harder to do such stuff if you dont have a weapon. And Moore made a point of showing how easy its to get them in the USA. If thats to complicated for you to understand then You better take one of those glorious weapons and use them to put a bullet to your faggot head.
"I dont think Grown ups get pissed over opposing views as much as you do."
"them to put a bullet to your faggot head."
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!! I love watching idiots hang/insult themselves! Fragman you get the New Idiot award wear it with pride, wear it externally!
How funny you are
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#18083
2003-05-17 1:46 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by britneyspearsatemyshorts:
.
Very eloquent.
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#18084
2003-05-18 3:05 AM
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Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 34,398 Likes: 38
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quote:
Originally posted by britneyspearsatemyshorts:
quote:
Originally posted by Fragman:
I dont think Grown ups get pissed over opposing views as much as you do. Its perfectly legal for Moore to draw his own conclusions about Litleton. Fact is thats its harder to do such stuff if you dont have a weapon. And Moore made a point of showing how easy its to get them in the USA. If thats to complicated for you to understand then You better take one of those glorious weapons and use them to put a bullet to your faggot head.
"I dont think Grown ups get pissed over opposing views as much as you do."
"them to put a bullet to your faggot head."
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!! I love watching idiots hang/insult themselves! Fragman you get the New Idiot award wear it with pride, wear it externally!
Frogman kicked his own ass pretty good, didn't he?
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