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That is very sad. They should not use lasers to circumcise.
"I offer you a Vulcan prayer, Mr Suder. May your death bring you the peace you never found in life." - Tuvok. 
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Why would someone use a laser to circumcise? That's dangerous. There is a tool that separates the forskin from the penis, so that when the cutting is done, it's done against a metal plate that prevents any damage to the penis itself. A steady hand can't screw that up.
Last edited by Brad Lee; 2006-09-17 12:51 PM.
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My point, precisely. They should forbid the use of lasers in this type of procedure. Man has been performing circumcisions for many centuries and did fine without the use of such technology.
"I offer you a Vulcan prayer, Mr Suder. May your death bring you the peace you never found in life." - Tuvok.
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Quote:
Ariel AKA Warp said:
Quote:
Beardguy57 said:
I wonder why they had acid near a kid during a circumcision?
It wasn't acid. The tool they were using was a laser and the doctor slipped. I saw an Oprah episode about the man.
Here is an article about him.
Thanks.
"Batman is only meaningful as an answer to a world which in its basics is chaotic and in the hands of the wrong people, where no justice can be found. I think it's very suitable to our perception of the world's condition today... Batman embodies the will to resist evil" -Frank Miller
"Conan, what's the meaning of life?"
"To crush your enemies, see them driven before you, and hear the lamentations of their women!"
-Conan the Barbarian
"Well, yeah."
-Jason E. Perkins
"If I had a dime for every time Pariah was right about something I'd owe twenty cents."
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Quote:
Beardguy57 said:
My point, precisely. They should forbid the use of lasers in this type of procedure. Man has been performing circumcisions for many centuries and did fine without the use of such technology.
I think the people with medical degrees should be the ones to ascertain the uses of lasers for circumcisions. It might actually have benefits (as laser technology seems to have in so many of its other medical applications).
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I hear you, Jim, but after that mishap, lasers being used for circumcision does not seem either a safe nor a practical option.
"I offer you a Vulcan prayer, Mr Suder. May your death bring you the peace you never found in life." - Tuvok.
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Rabbis don't use lasers and the boys don't tend to have problems afterwards. I've never met anyone who had a botched bris.
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And that supports my belief. Thank you, one who is formerly Pen Wing. 
"I offer you a Vulcan prayer, Mr Suder. May your death bring you the peace you never found in life." - Tuvok.
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Quote:
Brad Lee said:
Rabbis don't use lasers and the boys don't tend to have problems afterwards. I've never met anyone who had a botched bris.
Heh. I'm watching that episode right now.
"I saw a pigman! A PIGMAN!!!"
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Quote:
Beardguy57 said:
I hear you, Jim, but after that mishap, lasers being used for circumcision does not seem either a safe nor a practical option.
No surgical procedure is infallible. They all carry risks.
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Quote:
Jim Jackson said:
Quote:
Beardguy57 said:
I hear you, Jim, but after that mishap, lasers being used for circumcision does not seem either a safe nor a practical option.
No surgical procedure is infallible. They all carry risks.
That is correct, Jim; however, some procedures are more risky than others.
"I offer you a Vulcan prayer, Mr Suder. May your death bring you the peace you never found in life." - Tuvok.
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Quote:
Beardguy57 said:
Quote:
Jim Jackson said:
Quote:
Beardguy57 said:
I hear you, Jim, but after that mishap, lasers being used for circumcision does not seem either a safe nor a practical option.
No surgical procedure is infallible. They all carry risks.
That is correct, Jim; however, some procedures are more risky than others.
So why do an unneeded procedure on someone who haven't been asked whether if he (or she) wants the procedure done?
"Batman is only meaningful as an answer to a world which in its basics is chaotic and in the hands of the wrong people, where no justice can be found. I think it's very suitable to our perception of the world's condition today... Batman embodies the will to resist evil" -Frank Miller
"Conan, what's the meaning of life?"
"To crush your enemies, see them driven before you, and hear the lamentations of their women!"
-Conan the Barbarian
"Well, yeah."
-Jason E. Perkins
"If I had a dime for every time Pariah was right about something I'd owe twenty cents."
-Ultimate Jaburg53
"Fair enough. I defer to your expertise."
-Prometheus
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Quote:
Captain Sweden said:
Quote:
Beardguy57 said:
Quote:
Jim Jackson said:
Quote:
Beardguy57 said:
I hear you, Jim, but after that mishap, lasers being used for circumcision does not seem either a safe nor a practical option.
No surgical procedure is infallible. They all carry risks.
That is correct, Jim; however, some procedures are more risky than others.
So why do an unneeded procedure on someone who haven't been asked whether if he (or she) wants the procedure done?
The extent to which this is an unneeded procedure remains open to debate.
Further, for a number of cultures, it remains an integral part of a boy's first few days/years.
I offer these not as support for circumcision, but as simple statements of fact.
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Two dollars! I WANT MY TWO DOLLARS!!!!
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Quote:
Jim Jackson said:
Quote:
Captain Sweden said:
Quote:
Beardguy57 said:
Quote:
Jim Jackson said:
Quote:
Beardguy57 said:
I hear you, Jim, but after that mishap, lasers being used for circumcision does not seem either a safe nor a practical option.
No surgical procedure is infallible. They all carry risks.
That is correct, Jim; however, some procedures are more risky than others.
So why do an unneeded procedure on someone who haven't been asked whether if he (or she) wants the procedure done?
The extent to which this is an unneeded procedure remains open to debate.
Further, for a number of cultures, it remains an integral part of a boy's first few days/years.
I offer these not as support for circumcision, but as simple statements of fact.
Well, I'm just not into normative cultural relativism, but into deontological ethics.
"Batman is only meaningful as an answer to a world which in its basics is chaotic and in the hands of the wrong people, where no justice can be found. I think it's very suitable to our perception of the world's condition today... Batman embodies the will to resist evil" -Frank Miller
"Conan, what's the meaning of life?"
"To crush your enemies, see them driven before you, and hear the lamentations of their women!"
-Conan the Barbarian
"Well, yeah."
-Jason E. Perkins
"If I had a dime for every time Pariah was right about something I'd owe twenty cents."
-Ultimate Jaburg53
"Fair enough. I defer to your expertise."
-Prometheus
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Quote:
Captain Sweden said:
Well, I'm just not into normative cultural relativism, but into deontological ethics.
What? Define your terms, good sir.
And it's not like anybody's coming after your foreskin.
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Quote:
Jim Jackson said:
Quote:
Captain Sweden said:
Well, I'm just not into normative cultural relativism, but into deontological ethics.
What? Define your terms, good sir.
And it's not like anybody's coming after your foreskin.
Normative cultural relativism = Just because something is wrong in "our" culture, let it be burning widows together with their dead husbands or eating pork, it may be acceptable in another culture and therefor we should respect that.
Deontological ethics = Rights etchics, contractualism and duty ethics.
"Batman is only meaningful as an answer to a world which in its basics is chaotic and in the hands of the wrong people, where no justice can be found. I think it's very suitable to our perception of the world's condition today... Batman embodies the will to resist evil" -Frank Miller
"Conan, what's the meaning of life?"
"To crush your enemies, see them driven before you, and hear the lamentations of their women!"
-Conan the Barbarian
"Well, yeah."
-Jason E. Perkins
"If I had a dime for every time Pariah was right about something I'd owe twenty cents."
-Ultimate Jaburg53
"Fair enough. I defer to your expertise."
-Prometheus
Rack MisterJLA!
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Quote:
Captain Sweden said:
Quote:
Jim Jackson said:
Quote:
Captain Sweden said:
Well, I'm just not into normative cultural relativism, but into deontological ethics.
What? Define your terms, good sir.
And it's not like anybody's coming after your foreskin.
Normative cultural relativism = Just because something is wrong in "our" culture, let it be burning widows together with their dead husbands or eating pork, it may be acceptable in another culture and therefor we should respect that.
Are you then a cultural fascist? Do you advocate stamping out other cultures that are different from yours and that you don't respect their values?
All this over foreskin?
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Quote:
Jim Jackson said:
Quote:
Captain Sweden said:
Quote:
Jim Jackson said:
Quote:
Captain Sweden said:
Well, I'm just not into normative cultural relativism, but into deontological ethics.
What? Define your terms, good sir.
And it's not like anybody's coming after your foreskin.
Normative cultural relativism = Just because something is wrong in "our" culture, let it be burning widows together with their dead husbands or eating pork, it may be acceptable in another culture and therefor we should respect that.
Are you then a cultural fascist? Do you advocate stamping out other cultures that are different from yours and that you don't respect their values?
All this over foreskin?
I don't care if a woman is wearing a veil. I care if she's forced to wear a veil. Also, while I agree that there must be religious freedom, I also think that it means people can be free from religion.
BTW, please do not use an over-and missused term as "fascist".
"Batman is only meaningful as an answer to a world which in its basics is chaotic and in the hands of the wrong people, where no justice can be found. I think it's very suitable to our perception of the world's condition today... Batman embodies the will to resist evil" -Frank Miller
"Conan, what's the meaning of life?"
"To crush your enemies, see them driven before you, and hear the lamentations of their women!"
-Conan the Barbarian
"Well, yeah."
-Jason E. Perkins
"If I had a dime for every time Pariah was right about something I'd owe twenty cents."
-Ultimate Jaburg53
"Fair enough. I defer to your expertise."
-Prometheus
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Don't throw such a huge fit over a piece of tissue many of us have lost and don't miss.
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Quote:
Jim Jackson said:
Don't throw such a huge fit over a piece of tissue many of us have lost and don't miss.
Then you won't mind if a group wants to punch out one of their boys' teeth in order to show that they're a part of their tribe and/or that they have reached adulthood? Or what about female circumcision? (I know female circumcision causes more pain, but as you probably know now I'm more interested in the principle of it.) Surely, if we give various ethnic and/or religeous groups collective privilges instead of individual rights equal for all, we must be consistent, right?
I'm not forbidding male - or even female - circumcision. I just want people decide for themselves if they want it or not, when they're adults. I can't see how that is asking for too much.
"Batman is only meaningful as an answer to a world which in its basics is chaotic and in the hands of the wrong people, where no justice can be found. I think it's very suitable to our perception of the world's condition today... Batman embodies the will to resist evil" -Frank Miller
"Conan, what's the meaning of life?"
"To crush your enemies, see them driven before you, and hear the lamentations of their women!"
-Conan the Barbarian
"Well, yeah."
-Jason E. Perkins
"If I had a dime for every time Pariah was right about something I'd owe twenty cents."
-Ultimate Jaburg53
"Fair enough. I defer to your expertise."
-Prometheus
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First of all: Punching out a tooth is nothing like removing foreskin.
Second of all: Getting a circumsicion when your an adult is both complicated and risky. For health reasons, it's best to do it right after your born.
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Quote:
Captain Sweden said:
Quote:
Jim Jackson said:
Don't throw such a huge fit over a piece of tissue many of us have lost and don't miss.
Then you won't mind if a group wants to punch out one of their boys' teeth in order to show that they're a part of their tribe and/or that they have reached adulthood? Or what about female circumcision? (I know female circumcision causes more pain, but as you probably know now I'm more interested in the principle of it.) Surely, if we give various ethnic and/or religeous groups collective privilges instead of individual rights equal for all, we must be consistent, right?
I'm not forbidding male - or even female - circumcision. I just want people decide for themselves if they want it or not, when they're adults. I can't see how that is asking for too much.
Why then take kids to doctors when they're little? Why not just wait until they're adults and they can decide for themselves what they think is the best course of medical treatment for themselves.
Why do anything at all for infants, toddlers and little kids that we, as parents, think is for their benefit? We should just let them reach adulthood and decide for themselves.
Why should we send them to schools or help them get aculturated? We should let them wait until they're adults to decide for themselves.
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You don't get body parts removed at school.
"Batman is only meaningful as an answer to a world which in its basics is chaotic and in the hands of the wrong people, where no justice can be found. I think it's very suitable to our perception of the world's condition today... Batman embodies the will to resist evil" -Frank Miller
"Conan, what's the meaning of life?"
"To crush your enemies, see them driven before you, and hear the lamentations of their women!"
-Conan the Barbarian
"Well, yeah."
-Jason E. Perkins
"If I had a dime for every time Pariah was right about something I'd owe twenty cents."
-Ultimate Jaburg53
"Fair enough. I defer to your expertise."
-Prometheus
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Which protects a vital body part. Anyway, hopefully this discussion will be the last time I use duty ethics to convince an utiliterian. I hereby declare ceasefire and won't return to this thread.
"Batman is only meaningful as an answer to a world which in its basics is chaotic and in the hands of the wrong people, where no justice can be found. I think it's very suitable to our perception of the world's condition today... Batman embodies the will to resist evil" -Frank Miller
"Conan, what's the meaning of life?"
"To crush your enemies, see them driven before you, and hear the lamentations of their women!"
-Conan the Barbarian
"Well, yeah."
-Jason E. Perkins
"If I had a dime for every time Pariah was right about something I'd owe twenty cents."
-Ultimate Jaburg53
"Fair enough. I defer to your expertise."
-Prometheus
Rack MisterJLA!
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Quote:
Captain Sweden said:
Which protects a vital body part.
It's vestigial. The protection isn't necessary since we now walk upright.
I'm cut and I do not feel "unprotected."
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Circumcision may cut risk of HIVCircumcising adult men may reduce by half their risk of getting the AIDS virus through heterosexual intercourse, the U.S. government announced Wednesday, as it shut down two studies in Africa testing the link.
The National Institutes of Health closed the studies in Kenya and Uganda early, when safety monitors took a look at initial results this week and spotted the protection. The studies' uncircumcised men are being offered the chance to undergo the procedure.
The link between male circumcision and
HIV prevention was noted as long ago as the late 1980s. The first major clinical trial, of 3,000 men in South Africa, found last year that circumcision cut the HIV risk by 60 percent.
Still, many AIDS specialists had been awaiting the NIH's results as a final confirmation.
"Male circumcision can lower both an individual's risk of infection, and hopefully the rate of HIV spread through the community," said AIDS expert Dr. Anthony Fauci, director of the NIH's National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases.
But it's not perfect protection, Fauci stressed. Men who become circumcised must not quit using condoms nor take other risks — and circumcision offers no protection from HIV acquired through anal sex or injection drug use, he noted.
"It's not a magic bullet, but a potentially important intervention," agreed Dr. Kevin De Cock of the
World Health Organization.
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A man named de Cock bound for work in circumcision research. Priceless.
One major theory behind a circumcision-helps-reduce-likelihood-of-HIV-acuqisition is that it's believed the foreskin creates an enhanced breeding ground for HIV survival outside the body.
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