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cobra kai 15000+ posts
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cobra kai 15000+ posts
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from a conversation that started in the green arrow #3 review... its true, its true... im every fanboys worst nightmare, both in terms of banning ability, as well as comic likes and dislikes. to sum up my comic tastes... im not a big fan at all of most anything from the silver age, and/or (specifically) the 70s. that statement, alone, puts me to war with 70-85% of today's "true" comic fans because, mainly, thats what you grew up, and therefore, ingrained into your mind as the definitive characters / time period / stories, etc. and only characters and creative staff that emulates or has survived from that time period (i.e; hawkman and/or jim aparo) are classics, or geniuses. i understand this, and i accept it. everyone's got an opinion. i dont worship image, i dont worship wizard, i dont think "SPawN RulZ!!"... rather, i just have my own take on things. i've liked batman since i was born, really. but, i didnt get into the comic (or any comic) until relatively recently. perhaps only in the mid 90s. and, because of that, i only got the opportunity to "grow up with" comics from that point on. the dark knight returns, batman the movie, batman the animated series... these're all out in a relatively similar time period, and im obsessed with all of'em. thats what I grew up with. i dislike "classic" happy batman stories. i hate the happy blue and yummy gray pajamas he "fought" in. i dont (or didnt until recently) like green arrow, or superman, or hawkman, because they're all corny. i majorly dislike comic book fans who will only allow things to be "their" way. back in MY days as a regular DCMB poster (in the days of AOL), i would constantly get into verbal spars on the boards with fans who would never let batman or superman evolve, or change. and, until recently, it was that mentality that was in control of most comic books. thats why batman still had a blue cape. thats why superman books were a bottom-100 seller. thats why the jla was made up of rediculous side-characters. but now, with explosive new ideas brought forth by rucka, batman is NEW. he's hip, he's cool. jeph loeb and mcguinness have made superman an entertaining read! quesada has almost singlehandedly positively reshaped the entire marvel universe. dini and timm have created an entirely new dimension to comic book lore. THESE are things i love and enjoy. i now read superman on a regular basis. i couldnt wait to get thru issue 2 and 3 of the new green arrow series (after loving part 1). these are things that never would have happened without this new age of comics. ok. "flame on!"
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I would have loved to see you sparring back in the AOL days.... I hear what yer saying and the Bat-Man was/is/always will be my favorite. I have seen all of his various incarnations and I enjoy the current version the best. Whether or not I will in ten years time who knows maybe I will like that current version best or mebbe not.
The 50& 60s Bat-Man was laughable the earlier stuff was grimmer and not as campy. That is not to say I dont like other characters. Hawkman and Green Arrow had their silly moments (The Arrow Cave?!?!?!? Hawkman can speak in bird!?!?!?!?) but they have their redeeming features as well.
Im sorry Rob we will never pick on you again......yeah right....
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I can't believe you don't like Aparo! You are an ignorant cuss! Begone! You are hereby banned from my forum!!!
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Robbie speaks wisely of comic evolution! I have been reading comic books since 1963 or thereabouts! I started reading prior to the Bat-craze that swept our fair country with the success of the camp Batman TV show! Even as a child I knew too much of a good thing was...bad for comics! Batman appeared on every DC cover possible for quite a while! You know a company has sunk as low as possible when they team Batman and Robin with Jerry Lewis! DC comics eventually got past the Bat-craze and also had picked up a little competition in what I remember as "very dirty looking comic books" with publishing rival Marvel Comics. Oh, how I wish now that I had not snubbed those comics then! I think I started reading Spider-Man around the sixtieth issue or so! Five years that I missed out on a fledging comic universe! <sigh!> We had comic implosions and explosions and Monster themed hero comics and stabs at humor comics and everything inbetween. A lot of good stuff came and went...as well as a lot of bad stuff! Comics continued evolving though. Gritty gave way to subtle humor to realism to escapist. There had been Crisis and old favorites were put out to pasture as the Independents tried to leave their mark on the industry! Change usually...was good. Now? We may not be able to buy new comics in a few years if the industry doesn't rethink their marketing strategy! So, Robbie...give Hawkman a look! If he's not for you...that's okay by me! I don't buy any of the animated Batman or Superman books. Why? I made a decision to stay firmly in the DC universe and not to stray in WB comic universe. The few I have read have all been very good comics. This was one way of trying to keep my habit under control, also! As it is I spend forty dollars a week now! That is a good chunk of change for a homeowner and father of four! Gee! Look at how I have rambled! Bottom line is this! Comics have always had a diversity of product! Therein lies much of their appeal!
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The Swizzler.... 6000+ posts
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The Swizzler.... 6000+ posts
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Come now Rob how could you NOT like Adam West :P (then again who actually did?)
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Adam West was also in a short lived cop comedy (Police Squad?) and at the end of the first episode he is shown driving up towards the camera in a cop car in police uniform and looks straight into the camera and says, "Same Bat-time, same Bat-channel!" I nearly died laughing! It was probably late seventies or early eighties!
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cobra kai 15000+ posts
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cobra kai 15000+ posts
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i must say that, as much as i despise the batman from that time period, i actually really enjoy the BATMAN television series with adam west. AS LONG AS IT REMAINS IN THAT TIME PERIOD!! im not looking for batman 5, the movie, to be based on the television series. its a fond memory and reflection of that time period, but ONLY a reflection! comics today should really not be based on ANYthing from the past (within reason), regardless of time period. like i said above, the only way to generate a new generation of fans is to generate new comics and new stories for old comics. rucka's batman, marvel knights, loeb/mcguinnes' superman, smiths GA, morrison's JLA, morrison's X-men, ultimate spider-man... these are INFINITELY more important to the comic world than, say, a new hawkman or martian manhunter series, based on "classic" stories. comic books are not cars!
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I'll read any comic put in front of me. If it's good I'll keep reading. I don't regularly read Batman or Superman, but once a year or so, I pick a random issue to see what's up. I also pick up the interesting one-shots, minis and gn's. That said a lot of my favorite comics are indie produced. I still love the superhero genre, but usually there's got to be a uniqueness about it to hook me. An example is Morrison's X-Men. I hadn't read an X book regularly since '91. When Morrison came on board, I was enthralled, and have kept with it. I think DC has a lot of work to do in perking up some of it's characters and concepts. HERO is a great start.
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Don't associate Jim Aparo with the campy 60s Batman, that's two very different kinds of "classic".
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quote:
Originally posted by LLance:
Adam West was also in a short lived cop comedy (Police Squad?) and at the end of the first episode he is shown driving up towards the camera in a cop car in police uniform and looks straight into the camera and says, "Same Bat-time, same Bat-channel!" I nearly died laughing! It was probably late seventies or early eighties!
Silly Gay LLance... Police Squad was an early 80s show Starring Leslie Nielson as Lt. Frank Drebin. It lasted for six episodes, was the basis for the Naked Gun Movies, and was really too good for TV in the 80s. Now, it's definitely too good for TV.
But anyway...
Comics are fun, for the most part. However, we're in the twilight. 10 years ago, JSA was cancelled for selling about the same amount of copies the number one comic today sells.
There's no advertising, no push to get new fans, no mainstream distribution, and neither company is trying to change that deadliest of all misconceptions... that comics are for 25 year old geeks living in their mothers basements, children, and functional illiterates. Sure, we're in an era of geek chic, but comics are still considered too geeky.
Oh sure, they provide great, engaging stories, but if no one knows about 'em, it's like shouting into a vacuum.
You can have all the new ages of comics you want... but without more than a core fanbase to read 'em, it ultimately means nothing. Because, once the companies see that this new direction hasn't brought in new fans by the droves, they'll go back to the same ol' same ol.
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I'm just sayin' 10000+ posts
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I'm just sayin' 10000+ posts
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My take is that comics in & of themselves these days is far superior to what was put out 10 years ago....but like FNB stated above,without new readers it's not gonna do much good.Quite a shame actually.With all of the current crop of Marvel movies coming out & character awareness reaching millions,there should be more readers.But to get into comics themselves,I didn't become a huge fan until the late 80's,after DKR & the death of Jason Todd.Let's see....the whole firing of Steve Rogers & replacing him as Captain America,the departure of Reed & Sue & replacing them with Ms.Marvel & Crystal in FF.The Inferno storyline in X-Men,the Invasion that ran through all the DC books & so on..these are,to me anyways,the greatness of comics.
Like Rob,I'm not too entirely hung up on the Silver Age of comics.Oh,I enjoy reading them & all,but they don't do much for me.Now the Marvel books from that era,I really do like as they provide an interesting backstory to the characters today(The Essential books are great cheap reading).Now as a kid I enjoyed reading the 50's era Batman that was collected in the "Batman:From the 30's to the 70's" book.They were fun reading no doubt about it.
I didn't read too many comics in the 70's....maybe the occasional Spider-Man or Batman comic.But nothing major so I really don't have an opinion on that era(although the recent "Batman in the 70's" TPB is really good stuff).Of course back in the day when I first started reading them,there weren't many diversions for kids...video games had fizzled out for a time(except for this new fangled Nintendo system that seemed to be catching on),and except for going outside,or hanging with your friends,comics were the best thing to distract yourself.
I suppose the comics of today aren't much competition for what's out on the market to amuse the little ones but who knows,there might be a resurgance.The thing is....what can comics do that hasn't already been done to catch the eye of the public?That's the trick & I wish I had an answer.The 40's sold comics by the tons based on the war effort alone(you had to be a junior member of just about every characters fan club so you can do your part in defeating the Axis powers),the 50's comics seemed to make it on Westerns,horror & romance(things that were important to kids & teeneagers),the 60's comics seemed to have derived from the advent of true science fiction & the slamming of the communists(any early issue of FF has Reed & Ben spouting something about pinkos,reds & commies).The 70's comics more or less took characters back to their roots & really started complex storylines & more realism in the characters(how that affected kids,I have no idea).The 80's comics hit their stride;great stories,art,recognition by the public,Superman & Batman turning 50,this Tim Burton guy making a Batman movie,Superman's a test tube baby & so on...
The 90's comics...well....there was some good stuff in amongst all the shiny covered crap but they got lost in all of the glitz & were soon cancelled.The crash that comics experienced after the speculator boom really was a good thing...it made the companies start focusing on good stories as well as art,get more talent from outside the field,shake up the status quo in the books,turn things around.Not all of today's books are pure gold mind you.I still buy all the Superman books...more out of loyalty to the character than anything else(they just can't seem to get it right here of late),but for the most part,I'm enjoying comics now more than I was say 8 years ago.
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Rob:
Before you know it, you, too, will be the doddering, drooling old fool harkening back to "the Good Old Days". Today's "cutting edge and hip" will be tomorrow's "Why doesn't that old guy just shut the hell up?".....right?
Still....mainstream comics are moving in some pretty good directions now, and I usually welcome change....if it's done right and for the right reasons. I like comics from just about every era: Silver, Bronze, 80's....whatever. If it's good, it's good. Profound, huh?
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Grimmster's got a point. Someday Jim Lee will be yesterday's Batman artist.
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I'm just sayin' 10000+ posts
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I'm just sayin' 10000+ posts
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Yes,that's true...but look at the respect some of "yesterday's" Bat-artists get from fans.Neal Adams is nearly regarded as legend & a lot of his fans weren't even born when Neal was drawing Bats.Now Rob on the other hand will only remain legend in his own mind & LLance's photo gallery.
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Adam West's cop show was THE LAST PRECINCT!
Maybe they should have him & Leslie Nielsen team up for some project? :)
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quote:
Originally posted by profh0011:
Adam West's cop show was THE LAST PRECINCT!
He also did the "Tropical Punch" segments of the much-underrated, much-missed Danger Theatre. God, I miss that show....
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cobra kai 15000+ posts
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cobra kai 15000+ posts
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quote:
Originally posted by bizarromark:
Rob: Before you know it, you, too, will be the doddering, drooling old fool harkening back to "the Good Old Days". Today's "cutting edge and hip" will be tomorrow's "Why doesn't that old guy just shut the hell up?".....right?
tis possible, sure. everyone has their own opinions and is likely to stick to those opinions. however, unlike other (comic book fans), i think i'm pretty damn good at adapting to the various incarnations of my favorites, rather than relentlessly (and foolheartedly) holding on to something long gone.
case in point:
- when i first got a hold of the dark knight returns in the mid to late 80s, it instantly became the coolest comic/batman i had ever seen.
- the 1989 movie really did the same for me.
- so did the first "animated series" in 1992 or so.
- so did the recreation of that cartoon in the late 90s.
- graham nolan became my favorite mainstream batman artist
- no man's land was the best mainstream batman story i've ever read
- greg rucka was the best mainstream batman author i've ever read
- bruce wayne: murder was the best mainstream batman story i've ever read
- bruce wayne: fugitive was the best mainstream batman story i've ever read
- jim lee became my favorite mainstream batman artist.
yeah, there's been pure shit at moments in between those lil blurbs, but... overall, thats almost 20 years of being pretty damn happy and consistantly impressed with what i've been getting.
as much as i enjoyed (and still enjoy!) bruce timm's designs or frank miller's plots, i'd never hold that against today's creative teams. or tomorrow's.
i find there's a stark contrast between that viewpoint and the views belonging to fans unable to accept hal jordan, jim aparo, the original hawkman (etc) have moved on.
i know that sounds negative and like some sorta attack -- i really dont mean it to sound as such. its an opinion and an opinion any fan is entitled to have (in fact, its that of the vast majority of comic book fans!). and i mean no disrespect to hal jordan or jim aparo, as im sure they could both kick my ass.
however, i feel its a great disservice to the industry as a whole, not to mention those currently trying to produce new books, characters, and ideas, .... but most importantly, its a great disservice to yourself, as a fan, to limit your taste's and preferences to yesterday's aspects.
if you're dead set on proving "the good ole days" are long gone, you're more than likely to remain correct.
you'll never allow the chance to be proven wrong.
quote:
Originally posted by Animalman:
Grimmster's got a point.
who?
quote:
Originally posted by Animalman:
Someday Jim Lee will be yesterday's Batman artist.
jerkheads like you already think he is!
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quote:
Originally posted by Rob Kamphausen:
who?
....I....don't know.....
quote:
jerkheads like you already think he is
This is true!
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Listen to ol' Rob blasting away at the Silver Age Zombies--- it's fucking beautiful, man! If only Whomod from ODCUT could be here to witness this... ![[wink]](images/icons/wink.gif)
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Living the dream 15000+ posts
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Living the dream 15000+ posts
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Why was this brought back?
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Educator to comprehension impaired (JLA, that is you) 50000+ posts
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Educator to comprehension impaired (JLA, that is you) 50000+ posts
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Rob hasnt had a decent post in years, he had to try something...
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cobra kai 15000+ posts
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cobra kai 15000+ posts
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i've never had a decent post!
giant picture
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I walk in eternity 15000+ posts
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I walk in eternity 15000+ posts
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So you've only had indecent posts?
"I offer you a Vulcan prayer, Mr Suder. May your death bring you the peace you never found in life." - Tuvok. 
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