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Yeah, both attacks on the WTC were planned by Al Quaeda during Clinton's administration. That isn't his fault. However, it shows they were going to attack us no matter who was president in 2001.

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PJP Offline
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There are less terorists now Ray then there were in 2001. We are killing them. 9/11/01 will go down in history as the date that signaled the end of radical muslims. Give it another 10 years.

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rex Offline
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 Originally Posted By: Calybos
Hey, whatever became of that Osama fella? Didn't somebody promise to bring him to justice, or some such?



You mean the guy who hides in a cave all day and hasn't caused anymore terrorist attacks in years? The one who only comes out of hiding every couple months and makes threats but never follows up on them?


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Inglourious Basterd!!!
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 Originally Posted By: rex
 Originally Posted By: Calybos
Hey, whatever became of that Osama fella? Didn't somebody promise to bring him to justice, or some such?



You mean the guy who hides in a cave all day and hasn't caused anymore terrorist attacks in years? The one who only comes out of hiding every couple months and makes threats but never follows up on them?


Osama Bin Laden is the original former Insurgent!


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 Originally Posted By: britneyspearsatemyshorts
i'd rather have a safe America than a well respected America.


A well-respected America would be a safe America.

An extract of Bob Woodward's excellent new book is currently on the New Yorker website. Former commander of US forces in Iraq General Casey's solution to Iraq was to get out because the Iraqi government would become dependent on a US military presence and because Iraqi culture resents an occupying force. I have agreed with this in recent times. But then Casey was bumped up the Chief of Staff and General Petreaus took over. Petreaus's solution was the famous "surge" which was always going to calm Baghdad - you have 40000 disciplined troops in a city and the city is going to get safe. But it was not just the surge: it was also excellent intelligence, tolerance of the Sunnis, and an understanding of what Iraqis were complaining about. Petreaus has on the face of it done what Rumsfeld and Cheney should have planned for back when the invasion took place: a subtle and clever combination of hard power and soft power. US forces started to look tolerant and benign compared to al Qaeda, who were kidnapping and killing Iraqis.

This is an America I can respect. Its a smart, sophisticated America. Its the sort of America that sorted out Japan. Any Iraqi contemplating becoming an insurgent can see the whip but he can taste the carrot.


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Educator to comprehension impaired (JLA, that is you)
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 Originally Posted By: First Amongst Daves
 Originally Posted By: britneyspearsatemyshorts
i'd rather have a safe America than a well respected America.


A well-respected America would be a safe America.




did you not read the entire thread? under Clinton we were considered compromisers and engaged in the international community, very well respected internationally. the crazy fuckers still bombed us. you cant give food to a rabis dog and expect it to sit, you take it out back like old yeller.

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Oh, great, now you're expecting me to read the entire thread.


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 Originally Posted By: Friendly Neighborhood Ray-man

yes al queda came to us in iraq, and many many innocent civilians have been killed because of this. saddam may have been bad but we've been worse. we've done more torture, brought more random violence, and have generally helped bin laden's cause by doing all of this. democracy can't be forced upon a country, and democracy isn't some magical pure thing. hitler and saddam came to power through democracy. the whole point is that they have to choose it and fight for it themselves. military invasions only unify a country against the invaders. look at iran. there is a strong movement to reform things now, if we act in ways to help them reform (like diplomatic pressure which makes it harder for the bad guys to maintain a powerbase) then things will improve,but if we invade right off the bat all we do is unite all of iran against us.


 Originally Posted By: Friendly Neighborhood Ray-man

is America really safe if we've antagonized half the world, and increased the number of terrorists who want to attack us? The iraq war has done this.


 Originally Posted By: Friendly Neighborhood Ray-man

there was a study done in 2005 after abu graib. saddam may have been bad, but he was more pointed. he tortured specific people and killed certain people. the death toll has been higher and more chaotic, the torture and abuses have also been random towards people who were guilty of nothing more than being in the wrong place at the wrong time. a lot of people detained are there because someone gave their name or they had the bad luck of being picked up, no evidence, no trial. the atmosphere of recklessness under bush's lead lead to that.
and i would think that anyone who loved America would be horrified by our actions and want to root out the problems in our system and our leaders so that America can once again be the respected good guys we used to be.


Associated Press:
  • Top U.S. counterterrorism officials Monday said Al Qaeda is "imploding" and that its violent tactics have turned Muslims worldwide against the organization.

    Al Qaeda still remains the most dangerous threat to the United States. But of growing concern are organizations like Lebanese Hezbollah and Hamas, which combine social services, local governance, national politics with extremist attacks, said Undersecretary of State James Glassman.

    Vastly more Muslims than Westerners are killed by Al Qaeda car and suicide bombs, particularly in Iraq, where local tribes have largely turned against Al Qaeda in Iraq in the last two years.

    Extremist violence claimed more than 9,500 civilian victims in Muslim countries in 2007.

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 Originally Posted By: Irwin Schwab
Al-Queda has spent countless resources in Afganistan and Iraq, resources that could have been spent attacking here. Better to fight them in their world than ours.


Ray a cold hard fact that you'll have to understand is Pakistan has nukes, you just cant go invading looking for Bin Laden who by most accounts could be anywhere from Pakistan to Somalia. Being in Iraq does not drain the intelligence services looking for him, the Iraq war supplemental budgets are completely separate from the intelligence budget which is set by your Democratic congress. You can bet if Bin Laden is definitively found anywhere in the world we will get him. I know GW will, I know McCain will, by the time Obama sweet talks whatever country he is found to be in he will be long gone. And to correct your misstatements several of those responsible have been captured and killed. Osama is one of many.


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Fair Play!
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Ouch. Bsams sure did call that one wrong.


Fair play!
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"That one"?

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