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i think the article over steps its bounds a bit, but i agree with the overall sentiment: the knee-jerk insta-reaction to all things dubya is, and has been, ridiculous. he's done things wrong, but he is not the anti-christ. somewhere along the line, he slipped into being bad. maybe it was for a speech or maybe it was cuz letterman had good material that week; whatever. once he was there, there was nothing that could fix it. any slip up became the most embarrassing gaffe of all time. when, really, his historical significance other than opinion polls paints a different picture.
his definitive issues while in office include: 9/11, iraq, katrina, and the economic collapse.
i've said before, if iraq is a successful democracy in 25 or 50 years, that is an unparalleled accomplishment, and one that bush would no doubt receive (justly) credit for.
i think it's poor form to put pre-9/11 blame on bush alone. clinton, and thousands of government heads share that blunder. not to mention those terrorist guys. post, i think bush handled the situation pretty well.
the economic collapse is the fault of so very many things, including the man soon being sworn into office. i do disagree with the bailouts.
pre-katrina, again, i think so many government mistakes are to blame. not to mention that nature stuff. post-katrina, i think the reactions have been dreadful. yes, i agree, during and immediately following, much of the situation should be handled by local authorities. but the fact that there are still abandoned and ruined towns, nearly 4 years after the fact, is deplorable. this is perhaps my strongest anti-dubya issue (likely closely seconded by overly religious rightwing sentiment)
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Pariah it was one of the shallowest recessions ever. It destroyed the surplus you tried to brag about as a Clinton accomplishment. It probably would have been even smaller except Bush declared one was coming before he took office. As I mentioned Clinton campaigned on cutting taxes And then abandoned the idea as soon as he was elected. After the Republicans pressured him to do so for the better part of a decade. He didn't have one rubber stamp phillosphy when it came to the economy and did what made sense. After the Republicans forced him to, yeah. It worked and that's why he's still a very popular president despite the Monica stuff. 
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Laugh all you want but Clinton left office with a 65% approval rating. I could argue it was the democratic congress that made Regean a success like your doing here but it doesn't make it true and I'm not that partisan. The public makes it's own decision no matter what the partisans from either side say. They'll do it for W too.
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Actually, it's the democratic congress under Regan's administration that kept him from ending his reign with a surplus.
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You play it both ways Pariah, whatever way favors the GOP. We didn't get wonderful results when it was Bush and a republican congress. How do you blame the democrats for that one?
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You play it both ways Pariah, whatever way favors the GOP. We didn't get wonderful results when it was Bush and a republican congress. How do you blame the democrats for that one? A congressional democratic majority.
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You play it both ways Pariah, whatever way favors the GOP. We didn't get wonderful results when it was Bush and a republican congress. How do you blame the democrats for that one? A congressional democratic majority. When?
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Most of Bush's time in office was with a Republican controlled congress. Nothing to stop them from fucking it all up.
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i think the article over steps its bounds a bit, but i agree with the overall sentiment: the knee-jerk insta-reaction to all things dubya is, and has been, ridiculous. he's done things wrong, but he is not the anti-christ. somewhere along the line, he slipped into being bad. maybe it was for a speech or maybe it was cuz letterman had good material that week; whatever. once he was there, there was nothing that could fix it. any slip up became the most embarrassing gaffe of all time. when, really, his historical significance other than opinion polls paints a different picture.
his definitive issues while in office include: 9/11, iraq, katrina, and the economic collapse.
i've said before, if iraq is a successful democracy in 25 or 50 years, that is an unparalleled accomplishment, and one that bush would no doubt receive (justly) credit for.
i think it's poor form to put pre-9/11 blame on bush alone. clinton, and thousands of government heads share that blunder. not to mention those terrorist guys. post, i think bush handled the situation pretty well.
the economic collapse is the fault of so very many things, including the man soon being sworn into office. i do disagree with the bailouts.
pre-katrina, again, i think so many government mistakes are to blame. not to mention that nature stuff. post-katrina, i think the reactions have been dreadful. yes, i agree, during and immediately following, much of the situation should be handled by local authorities. but the fact that there are still abandoned and ruined towns, nearly 4 years after the fact, is deplorable. this is perhaps my strongest anti-dubya issue (likely closely seconded by overly religious rightwing sentiment) Don't agree entirely of course but a nice summary that I helped burry unintentionally.
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terrible podcaster 15000+ posts
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(The 'Clinton recession') was one of the shallowest recessions ever. It probably would have been even smaller except Bush declared one was coming before he took office. You mean the way that Congressional Democrats, Obama and the center-left media did for the past two or more years? If "talking the economy down" as a candidate prolongs recessions then isn't it fair to say that Obama, et al, are at least partially responsible for the current economic woes?
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Most of Bush's time in office was with a Republican controlled congress. Bush was in office eight years: January 2001-January 2009. 2001 and 2002: Democrat controlled Senate. 2007 and 2008: Democrat contolled House and Senate. So, rather than "most" of the time Bush was office, in fact, the Republicans controlled Congress only half the time he was President. Furthermore, even when the Republicans "controlled" the Senate (2003-2006) they did not have a filibuster proof majority so, on at least certain issues, the Republicans were stymied in those years too.
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(The 'Clinton recession') was one of the shallowest recessions ever. It probably would have been even smaller except Bush declared one was coming before he took office. You mean the way that Congressional Democrats, Obama and the center-left media did for the past two or more years? If "talking the economy down" as a candidate prolongs recessions then isn't it fair to say that Obama, et al, are at least partially responsible for the current economic woes? I think there is a difference between talking about economic problems and out and out saying there will be a recession. Did Obama like Bush predict one?
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- 1: Bush may have said something about a recession before the election, but it was ignored by the media. There was no coverage about it except for a handful who actually stood up and wrote/air stories about it. Most of America didn't see or hear anything about it.
2: A Democrat Congressman stood on the floor of Congress and said that a bank, who was at the time not in bad shape, was going to fail. The following day, depositors made a run on the bank and crippled it.
The recession at the end of Clinton's term was natural economics and not caused by someone saying there was one. Our current situation was worsened a great deal by politicians on both sides of the aisle and reporters constantly giving us doomsday scenarios that were much worse than what was really going on, driving people to change their habits too wildly and too quickly.
whomod said: I generally don't like it when people decide to play by the rules against people who don't play by the rules. It tends to put you immediately at a disadvantage and IMO is a sign of true weakness. This is true both in politics and on the internet." Our Friendly Neighborhood Ray-man said: "no, the doctor's right. besides, he has seniority."
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Most of Bush's time in office was with a Republican controlled congress. Bush was in office eight years: January 2001-January 2009. 2001 and 2002: Democrat controlled Senate. 2007 and 2008: Democrat contolled House and Senate. So, rather than "most" of the time Bush was office, in fact, the Republicans controlled Congress only half the time he was President. Furthermore, even when the Republicans "controlled" the Senate (2003-2006) they did not have a filibuster proof majority so, on at least certain issues, the Republicans were stymied in those years too. Actually here's the Bush's time in office and who controlled congress. From Jan 2001 to June 2001 congress was republican From June 2001 to jan 2003 congress was split, house was republican, senate was democratic From Jan 2003 to Jan 2007, congress was republican. So more of it was in fact under his party's control during his time as President. It is true that they didn't have a filibuster proof majority and that does come into play but overall he enjoyed more party support than any other president recently.
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http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2009/01/17/IN0B159A69.DTL From the day President Bush took office, the long knives were out for him - in ways they will not (and should not) be out for President-elect Barack Obama. The chattering class saw Dubya as a walking style crime in a cowboy suit. They hit Bush for everything - for the way he mangled syntax, for the books he read, because he worked out too much.
Note now that the buff Obama is taking office, stories gushing about Obama's daily workouts flood the channels. Oh, yes, and the same people who belittled Bush for sending troops to war even though he only served in the National Guard somehow do not seem to notice Obama's utter lack of military experience.
To trash Bush was to belong. There was little upside in supporting Bush, even if you had supported his agenda.
Most of the Democratic candidates for president in 2004 and 2008 voted for the Patriot Act - and then campaigned against it. They voted for the resolution authorizing U.S. military force in Iraq - then bolted from the war itself. Likewise with No Child Left Behind. Somehow Bush was the guy who looked bad as he withstood the heat, while his caving critics preened.
When the Dems were pushing for a humiliating retreat from Iraq and opinion polls supported troop withdrawal, Bush instead pushed for a troop surge that has made all the difference. Vice President-elect Joe Biden - who voted for the war before he was against it - visited Iraq last week. While there, he promised the Iraqis that America would not withdraw troops in a way that undermines Iraqi security. Yet that was exactly what his party advocated a year ago.
Does Bush get any credit? No, just as he has received little credit for efforts that have prolonged millions of lives, thanks to the President's Emergency Plan for AIDS Relief. Forget considerable goodwill in India and Africa. His good deeds, you see, don't fit with the prescribed story line that, with Bush in charge, the rest of the world hates us.
Yes, the man also stumbled, and others paid for his mistakes more dearly than he has.
Under Bush's watch, Osama bin Laden evaded capture.
Worse, Bush's slowness in changing strategies in Iraq suggested a presidency in a fetal position when Bush should have been managing the store and demanding results.
Weapons of mass destruction? The CIA believed Saddam Hussein had them. So did Hussein's lieutenants. I did, too. The conventional wisdom was wrong, but Bush can take comfort in the knowledge that without his efforts, Hussein almost certainly would have outlasted U.N. sanctions, armed himself to the hilt and wreaked unknown havoc in and beyond Iraq.
There is no comfort - there is no upside - to be had in the $810 billion Bush bailout. The Bush administration should have been on alert to contain the damage from the housing-price drop and mortgage foreclosures; instead, it allowed the credit crunch to reach a tipping point and roll over the U.S. economy. It was so avoidable. It was like the Katrina trailers all over again - except this preventable and unnatural disaster left toxic trailers strewn across America.
There's an out-to-lunch sloppiness to the whole mess. It feels as if the barrage of criticism made the Bush engine seize up and stop running the business of the nation.
America's first MBA president turned out to be a poor administrator, more interested in ideas than making the machinery work. He was good at fighting - and winning - ideological battles in Congress, but he never demonstrated a commitment to making his own administration deliver as promised. In putting loyalty at a premium, he overlooked incompetence.
How will history judge Bush?
Osama bin Laden once told Time magazine that the U.S. withdrawal from Somalia after the murder of 18 U.S. troops on a humanitarian mission made him realize "more than before that the American soldier was a paper tiger and after a few blows ran in defeat." Members of al Qaeda have told intelligence officials that they never thought that Washington would respond to the 9/11 attacks as ferociously as Bush responded. They expected a few bombs to be dropped, no boots on the ground, a swift withdrawal if casualties mounted - the usual short-attention span foreign policy that warped Lebanon, the Persian Gulf War, Somalia, the African embassy bombings and the attack on the destroyer Cole.
Bush showed America's enemies a country that does not retreat in fear, does not bomb with impunity, and most important, does not desert civilians or foreign governments that trust us. If you think that doesn't matter, look at Libya, which disarmed its weapons program. And see how much easier Obama's presidency will be, because Bush kept the faith.
Osama bin Laden may live, most likely quivering in a cave. But no one thinks America is a paper tiger anymore.
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From Jan 2001 to June 2001 congress was republican... Do you really think that a one-vote majority in the Senate, where one of the "Republican" votes was a guy who shortly thereafter switched parties (Jeffords) is really a "republican" congress?
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From Jan 2001 to June 2001 congress was republican... Do you really think that a one-vote majority in the Senate, where one of the "Republican" votes was a guy who shortly thereafter switched parties (Jeffords) is really a "republican" congress? It was more Republican than democrat. You say that makes it democrat controlled because the one guy ended up switching parties but didn't that make it only 50/50 after he switched?
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casselmm47 content User 500+ posts 30 minutes 16 seconds ago Reading a post Forum: Politics and Current Events Thread: History will show that George W Bush was right
casselmm47 is a student of history
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I wasnt a big fan of W I never voted for him
But now in hindsight I think he was the guy for the job!
He handled 9/11 very well.
I dont think the other guys would have held up in what he faced.
Yeah he wasnt great but OK is better than FUCKING IT UP or fucking around as Clinton did then lied about it.
George W Bush had the highest approval rating (well highest since we had the people to track it anyways) after 9/11.
The liberal media and celebrities knew this was bad and they may never get a Democrat back in so they started malligning Bush and ridiculing everything he did.
It is sad when I see comedians making light that with Obama in office there will be NO jokes to make about him!
Really?
Letterman take a look at the Inaguaration oath and PUT THAT in your Great Presidential Speeches!
I mean already we are being told not to tease Barry! Whatever happened to free speech? People are even afraid to admit publically they dont like Obama because they fear to be labeled aa Racist!
But lets be honest he aint black HE IS BI RACIAL raised by rich white grandparents who traveled the world and put him in Ivy League schools! Isnt that just the same as all the other politians?!?!?
Ive been told THAT ALL OF AMERICA LOVES BARAK or 99% do. Really? i dont have the exact numbers but I know that wasnt the findings on election day.
I would like to believe thathttp://www.rkmbs.com/ubbthreads.php/ubb/showflat/Main/53596/Number/1037146#Post1037146
Nobody can tell me what he has done....feel free to post no one in any other board or blog has told me eithe nor in real life. In fact in real life it ANGERS people!
So that said W never desever the disrespect he got leavin office and Obama doesnt deserve the worship he has gotten...even if Oprah told you to.
YOU PUT SOUP IN IT!
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http://www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/personal-view/4241865/History-will-show-that-George-W-Bush-was-right.html The American lady who called to see if I would appear on her radio programme was specific. "We're setting up a debate," she said sweetly, "and we want to know from your perspective as a historian whether George W Bush was the worst president of the 20th century, or might he be the worst president in American history?"
"I think he's a good president," I told her, which seemed to dumbfound her, and wreck my chances of appearing on her show.
In the avalanche of abuse and ridicule that we are witnessing in the media assessments of President Bush's legacy, there are factors that need to be borne in mind if we are to come to a judgment that is not warped by the kind of partisan hysteria that has characterised this issue on both sides of the Atlantic.
The first is that history, by looking at the key facts rather than being distracted by the loud ambient noise of the 24-hour news cycle, will probably hand down a far more positive judgment on Mr Bush's presidency than the immediate, knee-jerk loathing of the American and European elites.
At the time of 9/11, which will forever rightly be regarded as the defining moment of the presidency, history will look in vain for anyone predicting that the Americans murdered that day would be the very last ones to die at the hands of Islamic fundamentalist terrorists in the US from that day to this.
The decisions taken by Mr Bush in the immediate aftermath of that ghastly moment will be pored over by historians for the rest of our lifetimes. One thing they will doubtless conclude is that the measures he took to lock down America's borders, scrutinise travellers to and from the United States, eavesdrop upon terrorist suspects, work closely with international intelligence agencies and take the war to the enemy has foiled dozens, perhaps scores of would-be murderous attacks on America. There are Americans alive today who would not be if it had not been for the passing of the Patriot Act. There are 3,000 people who would have died in the August 2005 airline conspiracy if it had not been for the superb inter-agency co-operation demanded by Bush after 9/11.
The next factor that will be seen in its proper historical context in years to come will be the true reasons for invading Afghanistan in October 2001 and Iraq in April 2003. The conspiracy theories believed by many (generally, but not always) stupid people – that it was "all about oil", or the securing of contracts for the US-based Halliburton corporation, etc – will slip into the obscurity from which they should never have emerged had it not been for comedian-filmmakers such as Michael Moore.
Instead, the obvious fact that there was a good case for invading Iraq based on 14 spurned UN resolutions, massive human rights abuses and unfinished business following the interrupted invasion of 1991 will be recalled.
Similarly, the cold light of history will absolve Bush of the worst conspiracy-theory accusation: that he knew there were no WMDs in Iraq. History will show that, in common with the rest of his administration, the British Government, Saddam's own generals, the French, Chinese, Israeli and Russian intelligence agencies, and of course SIS and the CIA, everyone assumed that a murderous dictator does not voluntarily destroy the WMD arsenal he has used against his own people. And if he does, he does not then expel the UN weapons inspectorate looking for proof of it, as he did in 1998 and again in 2001.
Mr Bush assumed that the Coalition forces would find mass graves, torture chambers, evidence for the gross abuse of the UN's food-for-oil programme, but also WMDs. He was right about each but the last, and history will place him in the mainstream of Western, Eastern and Arab thinking on the matter.
History will probably, assuming it is researched and written objectively, congratulate Mr Bush on the fact that whereas in 2000 Libya was an active and vicious member of what he was accurately to describe as an "axis of evil" of rogue states willing to employ terrorism to gain its ends, four years later Colonel Gaddafi's WMD programme was sitting behind glass in a museum in Oakridge, Tennessee.
With his characteristic openness and at times almost self-defeating honesty, Mr Bush has been the first to acknowledge his mistakes – for example, tardiness over Hurricane Katrina – but there are some he made not because he was a ranting Right-winger, but because he was too keen to win bipartisan support. The invasion of Iraq should probably have taken place months earlier, but was held up by the attempt to find support from UN security council members, such as Jacques Chirac's France, that had ties to Iraq and hostility towards the Anglo-Americans.
History will also take Mr Bush's verbal fumbling into account, reminding us that Ronald Reagan also mis-spoke regularly, but was still a fine president. The first MBA president, who had a higher grade-point average at Yale than John Kerry, Mr Bush's supposed lack of intellect will be seen to be a myth once the papers in his Presidential Library in the Southern Methodist University in Dallas are available.
Films such as Oliver Stone's W, which portray him as a spitting, oafish frat boy who eats with his mouth open and is rude to servants, will be revealed by the diaries and correspondence of those around him to be absurd travesties, of this charming, interesting, beautifully mannered history buff who, were he not the most powerful man in the world, would be a fine person to have as a pal.
Instead of Al Franken, history will listen to Bob Geldof praising Mr Bush's efforts over Aids and malaria in Africa; or to Manmohan Singh, the prime minister of India, who told him last week: "The people of India deeply love you." And certainly to the women of Afghanistan thanking him for saving them from Taliban abuse, degradation and tyranny.
When Abu Ghraib is mentioned, history will remind us that it was the Bush Administration that imprisoned those responsible for the horrors. When water-boarding is brought up, we will see that it was only used on three suspects, one of whom was Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, al-Qaeda's chief of operational planning, who divulged vast amounts of information that saved hundreds of innocent lives. When extraordinary renditions are queried, historians will ask how else the world's most dangerous terrorists should have been transported. On scheduled flights?
The credit crunch, brought on by the Democrats in Congress insisting upon home ownership for credit-unworthy people, will initially be blamed on Bush, but the perspective of time will show that the problems at Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac started with the deregulation of the Clinton era. Instead Bush's very un-ideological but vast rescue package of $700 billion (£480 billion) might well be seen as lessening the impact of the squeeze, and putting America in position to be the first country out of recession, helped along by his huge tax-cut packages since 2000.
Sneered at for being "simplistic" in his reaction to 9/11, Bush's visceral responses to the attacks of a fascistic, totalitarian death cult will be seen as having been substantially the right ones.
Mistakes are made in every war, but when virtually the entire military, diplomatic and political establishment in the West opposed it, Bush insisted on the surge in Iraq that has been seen to have brought the war around, and set Iraq on the right path. Today its GDP is 30 per cent higher than under Saddam, and it is free of a brutal dictator and his rapist sons.
The number of American troops killed during the eight years of the War against Terror has been fewer than those slain capturing two islands in the Second World War, and in Britain we have lost fewer soldiers than on a normal weekend on the Western Front. As for civilians, there have been fewer Iraqis killed since the invasion than in 20 conflicts since the Second World War.
Iraq has been a victory for the US-led coalition, a fact that the Bush-haters will have to deal with when perspective finally – perhaps years from now – lends objectivity to this fine man's record. Awesome article. To bad the liberal retards will ignore the facts contained within it. Interesting article. It presupposes a lot of "what ifs?". And I think it got it wrong on the imprisonment of all involved in Abu Ghriab - Donald Rumsfeld missed out, as did many others who knew or should have known. I think the call on Libya is a good one. Qadaffi realised he would be next after Saddam unless he cleaned up his act. In the lead-up to the invasion of Iraq I supported it because any act which overthrows a tyrant is a good act, and then was horrified to learn that there were no post-invasion plans in place to set up proper governance. Turns out that US military forces are great at invasion, not so good at knowing what to do afterwards. After many, many fuck-ups in the process, and some changes in key personnel, we see now that a semblance of peace is returning to Iraq, likely to increase as less and less US troops and Blackwater contractors are on the ground. So on the whole, Iraq, despite being a bloody and painful process for Iraqis and an example of clumsy clusterfuck diplomacy by US government officials, is finally and hopefully, 8 years later, turning out for the best. Bush from one perspective followed the same legacy as Clinton in Somalia, but did a better job of it - actually staying to finish the job. If the US did the same thing now with Burma I would, hesitatingly, approve of it, because armed invasion with all of its fuck-ups has got to be better than living in a tyranny. One thing Bush did which I do wholeheartedly approve of is the creation of a massive marine park - http://www.gmagazine.com.au/news/1041/bush-creates-worlds-largest-marine-park - three huge areas of sea, which was on top of the creation of a park in Hawaii in 2006. Bush, though, will be remembered as the guy who invaded a country on entirely flawed pretenses, who failed to act decisively on New Orleans, and on whose watch 9/11 happened. There's no getting around any of that.
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PS -haven't read entire thread as a dick waving exchange doesn't interest me. I just read this though. http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2009/01/17/IN0B159A69.DTL From the day President Bush took office, the long knives were out for him - in ways they will not (and should not) be out for President-elect Barack Obama. The chattering class saw Dubya as a walking style crime in a cowboy suit. They hit Bush for everything - for the way he mangled syntax, for the books he read, because he worked out too much.
Note now that the buff Obama is taking office, stories gushing about Obama's daily workouts flood the channels. Oh, yes, and the same people who belittled Bush for sending troops to war even though he only served in the National Guard somehow do not seem to notice Obama's utter lack of military experience.
To trash Bush was to belong. There was little upside in supporting Bush, even if you had supported his agenda.
Most of the Democratic candidates for president in 2004 and 2008 voted for the Patriot Act - and then campaigned against it. They voted for the resolution authorizing U.S. military force in Iraq - then bolted from the war itself. Likewise with No Child Left Behind. Somehow Bush was the guy who looked bad as he withstood the heat, while his caving critics preened.
When the Dems were pushing for a humiliating retreat from Iraq and opinion polls supported troop withdrawal, Bush instead pushed for a troop surge that has made all the difference. Vice President-elect Joe Biden - who voted for the war before he was against it - visited Iraq last week. While there, he promised the Iraqis that America would not withdraw troops in a way that undermines Iraqi security. Yet that was exactly what his party advocated a year ago.
Does Bush get any credit? No, just as he has received little credit for efforts that have prolonged millions of lives, thanks to the President's Emergency Plan for AIDS Relief. Forget considerable goodwill in India and Africa. His good deeds, you see, don't fit with the prescribed story line that, with Bush in charge, the rest of the world hates us.
Yes, the man also stumbled, and others paid for his mistakes more dearly than he has.
Under Bush's watch, Osama bin Laden evaded capture.
Worse, Bush's slowness in changing strategies in Iraq suggested a presidency in a fetal position when Bush should have been managing the store and demanding results.
Weapons of mass destruction? The CIA believed Saddam Hussein had them. So did Hussein's lieutenants. I did, too. The conventional wisdom was wrong, but Bush can take comfort in the knowledge that without his efforts, Hussein almost certainly would have outlasted U.N. sanctions, armed himself to the hilt and wreaked unknown havoc in and beyond Iraq.
There is no comfort - there is no upside - to be had in the $810 billion Bush bailout. The Bush administration should have been on alert to contain the damage from the housing-price drop and mortgage foreclosures; instead, it allowed the credit crunch to reach a tipping point and roll over the U.S. economy. It was so avoidable. It was like the Katrina trailers all over again - except this preventable and unnatural disaster left toxic trailers strewn across America.
There's an out-to-lunch sloppiness to the whole mess. It feels as if the barrage of criticism made the Bush engine seize up and stop running the business of the nation.
America's first MBA president turned out to be a poor administrator, more interested in ideas than making the machinery work. He was good at fighting - and winning - ideological battles in Congress, but he never demonstrated a commitment to making his own administration deliver as promised. In putting loyalty at a premium, he overlooked incompetence.
How will history judge Bush?
Osama bin Laden once told Time magazine that the U.S. withdrawal from Somalia after the murder of 18 U.S. troops on a humanitarian mission made him realize "more than before that the American soldier was a paper tiger and after a few blows ran in defeat." Members of al Qaeda have told intelligence officials that they never thought that Washington would respond to the 9/11 attacks as ferociously as Bush responded. They expected a few bombs to be dropped, no boots on the ground, a swift withdrawal if casualties mounted - the usual short-attention span foreign policy that warped Lebanon, the Persian Gulf War, Somalia, the African embassy bombings and the attack on the destroyer Cole.
Bush showed America's enemies a country that does not retreat in fear, does not bomb with impunity, and most important, does not desert civilians or foreign governments that trust us. If you think that doesn't matter, look at Libya, which disarmed its weapons program. And see how much easier Obama's presidency will be, because Bush kept the faith.
Osama bin Laden may live, most likely quivering in a cave. But no one thinks America is a paper tiger anymore. A very fair and balanced article.
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Oh, and I just learned today that Richard Nixon was responsible for a very tough Environmental Protection Act as well as a Clean Air Act and a Clean Water Act.
Oddly, he's not remembered for any of them.
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that's because democrats don't want anyone stealing their precious cannon fodder by disrupting the captain planet-esque illusions they've worked so hard to create. republicans don't care about the environment, dave! they're too busy kicking puppies and stealing single black mothers' welfare checks!
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Dave already said he wasn't interested in dick waving so you might want to consider tucking it back in and zipping up.
Something like watergate is going to be problematic to any presidential legacy.
Fair play!
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you might want to consider tucking it back in and zipping up. Bet that's the first time you've ever used that phrase with anybody.
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Dave already said he wasn't interested in dick waving so you might want to consider tucking it back in and zipping up.
Something like watergate is going to be problematic to any presidential legacy.  hell hath no fury like a snarky mem!
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you might want to consider tucking it back in and zipping up. Bet that's the first time you've ever used that phrase with anybody. Bet it's not the first time you've heard that phrase.
Fair play!
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Um, this is a written web page, no one (except maybe sneaky and then only with special software) "hears" anything.
As you continue your study of our language you might want to look up the difference in meaning between "hear" and "see."
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that's because democrats don't want anyone stealing their precious cannon fodder by disrupting the captain planet-esque illusions they've worked so hard to create. republicans don't care about the environment, dave! they're too busy kicking puppies and stealing single black mothers' welfare checks! Actually, its because of Watergate and the fact that he was a criminal lowlife fucktard. Sorry, I'll follow MEM's advice and zip it up now.
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It's amazing the venom liberals spew at a man who did nothing to them.
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that's because democrats don't want anyone stealing their precious cannon fodder by disrupting the captain planet-esque illusions they've worked so hard to create. republicans don't care about the environment, dave! they're too busy kicking puppies and stealing single black mothers' welfare checks! Actually, its because of Watergate and the fact that he was a criminal lowlife fucktard. Hold on. A lot of criminal lowlife political fucktards still get their due on particular issues where they are perceived as having accomplished something. See, eg, Lyndon Johnson and the great society, Eliot Spitzer and investigating white collar corruption. Furthermore, Nixon-despite Watergate-generally gets good marks in the press and from historians for his efforts regarding the USSR and China. So that does tend to beg the question why those areas and not the environment.
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I accept that Nixon presided over detente, although that was more Kissinger than Nixon - Nixon had next to no interest in foreign affairs and let Kissinger do whatever he lked. My source for that is a biography of Kissinger, but I see no reason to doubt it.
However, your post prompted me to review my position on this, and not just engage in thoughtless knee-jerk revulsion of Nixon. I agree with your implied argument, and indeed the implied argument of the entire thread, that everyone is capable of rehabilitation, especially in the eyes of history.
I once read a really brutal riposte of Nixon in, was it Time magazine? It was published while Nixon was still alive.
Nixon in his later years had become a scholar of ancient history. He nonetheless started issuing he odd opinion piece on political events, which garnered some quiet approval. I read one or two of them, a little in awe that the man might be attempting some sort of rehabilitation.
The article I first referred to reminded us that Nixons reputation was demolished. Nixon's actions were so criminal and such a fundamental abuse of power and a breach of trust that his word meant nothing and his opinions meant nothing.
I agreed with it at the time, but I don't know that I can agree with it now. The entire penal system is ostensibly about rehabilitation. If we think a murderer has the potential to repent and reintegrate into society, then we can accept that a liar and abuser of power could have learned his lesson and is capable of redemption. Indeed, the lessons he learned from the mistakes he made should be shared, so as to enable others to avoid those mistakes.
The front cover of Woodward's book "Shadow", dealing with the ruination of trust in the office of President which was caused by and has carried on from the Nixon years, has Ford, Reagan, Bush Sr and Clinton all in profile attending Nixon's funeral. It reminds me that despite his terrible flaws, Nixon, and Bush Jr, deserve respect for the good they achieved, and that this should be balanced againt the terrible errors of judgment, omissions, and mistakes they made.
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http://news.yahoo.com/s/csm/20090306/cm_csm/ysales
Arlington, Va. – Remember when the USA Patriot Act was seen as a common-sense counterterrorism tool? Congress enacted the law shortly after the 9/11 attacks by large bipartisan majorities. It wasn't even close.
And for good reason: The Patriot Act made relatively modest changes to the law as it stood on Sept. 11, 2001. The act simply let terrorist- and spy-hunters use some of the same tools regular cops have had in their arsenal for decades. And it updated existing laws to make them more effective against terrorist threats.
As President Obama forges new security policies, let's hope he keeps the Patriot Act intact. The act works. According to the Justice Department, the Patriot Act helped take down Al Qaeda cells in Buffalo, N.Y. and Portland, Ore. Prosecutors used it to convict a Floridian who pled guilty to raising money for a terrorist group called Palestinian Islamic Jihad. And The act led to the conviction of a man who threatened to torch a Texas mosque.
Despite those successes, the act has become a civil libertarian bugaboo. We've all heard how the act poses a dire threat to liberty and privacy. Federal agents can search your house without ever telling you. The feds can force the phone company to reveal whom you've been calling, and they can rummage through library records to find out what books you've been reading. They can even brand you a terrorist and throw you in jail if you get in an argument with a flight attendant.
The daily reality is much less dramatic – and much less frightening.
Let's start with the flight attendants. It's been illegal to interfere with airline crews since JFK was president. The Patriot Act made it a crime to attempt or conspire to do what the law already barred.
The basic idea behind the change is prevention. We shouldn't have to wait for a passenger to take a crew member's life before we throw the book at him. We should be able to prosecute the steps he takes along the way – ignoring an order to return to his seat, pulling a box cutter from his pocket, and so on.
The Patriot Act's "sneak and peek" authority is also pretty long in the tooth. For decades, federal courts recognized special circumstances in which police may hold off on notifying a suspect that they've searched his house.
As the Supreme Court stressed in 1967, immediate notice could "provoke the escape of the suspect or the destruction of critical evidence." The Patriot act merely codified these judicial decisions and adopted a uniform, nationwide standard.
Police still need a warrant before conducting a search, and they can't decide to delay notice by themselves. On both counts, a judge has to give the go ahead first. Plus, cops ordinarily have to tell the suspect about the search within 30 days.
Then there's the much-maligned "libraries" provision. In garden-variety criminal cases, grand juries are able to subpoena all kinds of documents from banks, phone companies, gas stations, and other businesses. The Patriot Act established a similar tool for terrorism investigations. And the terrorism rules are actually more protective of civil liberties.
Federal prosecutors can issue grand jury subpoenas basically unilaterally, but the Patriot Act requires the FBI to get a court order first. Also, the act expressly protects First Amendment rights – a topic about which the grand jury rules are conspicuously silent.
It's true that the Patriot Act conceivably could be applied to libraries and bookstores. But that's a lot less alarming than it might sound. Grand juries issued subpoenas to a half-dozen libraries in the Unabomber investigation. And a grand jury in New York demanded library records during the 1990 Zodiac gunman investigation. If subpoenas are good enough for domestic criminals, they ought to be good enough for foreign terrorists.
That's not to say The Patriot Act is perfect. As with any law, there's always a risk of abuse.
In March 2007, an internal Justice Department audit found that the FBI had misused its power under the Patriot Act to gain access to terrorism suspects' telephone records. And newspapers have reported that relatively minor in-flight disturbances have led to passengers facing federal charges of interfering with flight crew. Abuses like these are not to be taken lightly.
But the solution is not to neuter the Patriot Act. The act remains a vital weapon in the struggle against global terrorism.
Perhaps the best way to ensure that the act remains faithful to fundamental American values is to insist on greater transparency and oversight: More hearings on Capitol Hill; more audits; and, above all, more disclosures to the public.
Policymakers in the new administration and in Congress – and ordinary Americans like us – should keep tabs on counterterrorism agents to see that they don't abuse the powers they've been given. But we also need to make sure agents keep the tools they need to get the job done. Al Qaeda hasn't given up and neither should we.
Nathan A. Sales is a law professor at George Mason University. He previously served at the Department of Justice (where he helped write the Patriot Act) and the Department of Homeland Security.
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Clearing the Air on Bush's Watch: New report finds America's air quality significantly improved during the Bush administration
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Wouldn't this fall into the category of it happened while he was president but it would have happened if a potato had been elected for those 8 years?
Fair play!
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As I recall, a common theme of the left was that things like this were getting worse due to Bush's actions.
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Yahoo 2 minutes 50 seconds ago Reading a post Forum: Politics and Current Events Thread: History will show that George W Bush was right
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http://hillbuzz.org/2009/11/10/thank-you...ady-laura-bush/ We know absolutely no one in Bush family circles and have never met former President George W. Bush or his wife Laura.
If you have been reading us for any length of time, you know that we used to make fun of “Dubya” nearly every day…parroting the same comedic bits we heard in our Democrat circles, where Bush is still, to this day, lampooned as a chimp, a bumbling idiot, and a poor, clumsy public speaker.
Oh, how we RAILED against Bush in 2000…and how we RAILED against the surge in support Bush received post-9/11 when he went to Ground Zero and stood there with his bullhorn in the ruins on that hideous day.
We were convinced that ANYONE who was president would have done what Bush did, and would have set that right tone of leadership in the wake of that disaster. President Gore, President Perot, President Nader, you name it. ANYONE, we assumed, would have filled that role perfectly.
Well, we told you before how much the current president, Dr. Utopia, made us realize just how wrong we were about Bush. We shudder to think what Dr. Utopia would have done post-9/11. He would have not gone there with a bullhorn and struck that right tone. More likely than not, he would have been his usual fey, apologetic self and waxed professorially about how evil America is and how justified Muslims are for attacking us, with a sidebar on how good the attacks were because they would humble us.
Honestly, we don’t think President Gore would have been much better that day. The world needed George W. Bush, his bullhorn, and his indominable spirit that day…and we will forever be grateful to this man for that.
As we will always be grateful for what George and Laura Bush did this week, with no media attention, when they very quietly went to Ft. Hood and met personally with the families of the victims of this terrorist attack.
FOR HOURS.
The Bushes went and met privately with these families for HOURS, hugging them, holding them, comforting them.
If there are any of you out there with any connection at all to the Bushes, we implore you to give them our thanks…you tell them that a bunch of gay Hillary guys in Boystown, Chicago were wrong about the Bushes…and are deeply, deeply sorry for any jokes we told about them in the past, any bad thoughts we had about these good, good people.
You may be as surprised by this as we are ourselves, but from this day forward George W. and Laura Bush are now on the same list for us as the Clintons, Geraldine Ferraro, Stephanie Tubbs Jones, and the other political figures we keep in our hearts and never allow anyone to badmouth.
Criticize their policies academically and intelligently and discuss the Bush presidency in historical and political terms…but you mess with the Bushes personally and, from this day forward, you’ll answer to us.
We hope someday to be able to thank George W. and Laura in person for all they’ve done, and continue to do. They didn’t have to head to Ft. Hood. That was not their responsibility.
The Obamas should have done that.
But didn’t.
Wouldn’t.
Thank goodness George W. is still on his watch, with wonderful Laura at his side.
We are blessed as a nation to have these two out there…just as we are blessed to have the Clintons on the job, traveling the world doing the good they do.
And we are blessed to have Dick Cheney, wherever he is, keeping tabs on all that’s going on and speaking out when the current administration does anything too reckless and dangerous.
Cheney’s someone else we villainized and maligned in the past who we were also wrong about. There has never been a Vice President, including Gore, Biden, or Mondale, who was more supportive of gay rights than “Darth Cheney”. There has never been a Vice President more spot-on right about the dangers facing this country from Islamic terrorism.
We live in strange, strange times indeed.
We are now officially committed fans of George W. and Laura Bush. We are fans of Dick Cheney. Our gratitude for them makes us newly protective of them, and the continued role they play in this country.
After the primary battle of 2008, we never thought we’d go back to Texas for anything, but sometime in 2010 we want to find some event in Dallas the Bushes will be at so at least one of us can go up to them, tell them we are deeply sorry for ever thinking ill of them, and thank them from the bottom of our hearts for their service to America.
We’re sure they will just stare at us and wonder why these gay Chicagoans are crying, but we don’t think we can get through a meeting with them without being emotional.
What they did at Ft. Hood for those families humbles us. Every day, the Bushes are most likely doing something just like it behind the scenes.
We hope if any of you encounter them you will let them know this is deeply appreciated beyond partisan lines.
We will never look at the Bushes, the Bush presidencies, or their legacies the same again…and someday when his presidential library is built, we will be so proud to visit there and tell anyone will listen about November 10th, 2009, the day we finally appreciated former President George W. Bush and his wife Laura.
Thank you for your service, Mr. President. We’re sorry we didn’t appreciate you while you were in office, but we thank Heaven we’ve wised up and can see the good you are out there doing, under the radar, today.
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