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rest? the fucking thing is wore out from running in circles! 
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By the looks of it, this board will probably still exist in 2020. You'll see that either N. Korea collapsed on their own, still exist or got replaced by a Chinese puppet government.
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and that youre still a fucking moron.
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and that youre still a fucking moron. And that you're still posting here with still the same ignorant beliefs, just 150k posts more.
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Juche, you are missing the point. It would've been an entirely different situation had the allies been proactive in confronting Hitler when he was breaking all the treaty provisions. He didn't have the military capabilities that he had by the time '39 rolled around. They could've just marched in from France. Put Hitler in his place. And, roll out. Pretty much, they just should have listened to Churchill.
Instead, they took the Obama route and believed they could dialogue with Hitler. They made concessions that made them look weaker each time the capitulated to one of Hitler's demands. And, with each capitulation, Hitler got bolder and his war machine got larger & better equipped.
It wasn't that they couldn't. It was a simply that they were afraid to. Sure, they didn't want another WWI. But, because of their inaction, they got something worse. Hell, even if they had marched on Germany in September of '39 then they probably could have taken Hitler then since most of his forces were focused on Poland. Instead, they waited for over a year for Hitler to attack them in the so-called Phony War.
I'm not for just taking the proactive solution everytime. But, when it comes to down to the likes of people like Il getting The Bomb, there is no time for talking. There cannot be concessions made. There can only be the elimination of the threat. You mean with or without France as an ally? Because the British infantry divisions really wouldn't stand a chance against Germany in 1936. And French weren't going to join them. They did however honor their independence guaranteement of Poland when Germany invaded it in 1939. And they did attack Saarland then, with quite a numerical advance. However they didn't get very far and retreated again in their heavily defended maginot line, thinking they'd stop Germany without many problems if they were going to attack. However nobody knew of German's new blitzkrieg tactics yet, being able to attack from the weaker defended Belgian border and occupying Paris before they even realised it. But what you're suggesting, is that we should be as afraid of Iran/North Korea now, as were were of Germany. But you can't compare these, the world is much more unified now, nothing like the devided world in the 30's. The only reason Il has that bomb, is to make a fist against the overwhelming opposition they're facing in the world. They're not going to commit suicide by using it, they don't have any allies. Germany could get help from Italy, Japan and possibly even Brazil, Spain and the USSR if they wanted. Um...China?
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Please try to defend yourself in this debate. You are the one who seems to be having a hard time defending your position in this debate. Nothing you've said about Pre-WWII Germany and world politics helps your position. Instead, you've proved what everyone else was saying about the rest of the world being too scared to act and allowing Hitler to become a global threat. The fact is that the Allies had plenty of chances to stop Hitler before his military power grew and didn't. His simple act of building up his military forces was a direct violation of the treaty and enough of a reason to stop him. Now, we may not have to worry about fighting an armed forces like Hitler's with Korea or Iran, but we have to worry about countries with nuclear capabilities launching warheads on rockets or even possibly using suitcase bombs in cities. In 1936 there was no reason, they weren't scared. Treaties are often violated more or less, they didn't see it as a problem then. A war was not justified by then. In 1938 it could have been started but it wouldn't necesarily turn out well for the allies, so they didn't. What's going on now is a sideshow on global level, it's in nobody's interest to start a war. Who said that war was necessary? There are a lot of other things we can do like simply shooting down Korean missiles before they get to the Sea of Japan and enforcing trade embargoes and implementing new ones. All your argument is doing is showing that attempting to pacify and appease militant dictators with kind words and rewards for bad acts allows them the chance to create a real war and kill millions just because we're too afraid and PC to take a hard line.
whomod said: I generally don't like it when people decide to play by the rules against people who don't play by the rules. It tends to put you immediately at a disadvantage and IMO is a sign of true weakness. This is true both in politics and on the internet." Our Friendly Neighborhood Ray-man said: "no, the doctor's right. besides, he has seniority."
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Please try to defend yourself in this debate. You are the one who seems to be having a hard time defending your position in this debate. Nothing you've said about Pre-WWII Germany and world politics helps your position. Instead, you've proved what everyone else was saying about the rest of the world being too scared to act and allowing Hitler to become a global threat. The fact is that the Allies had plenty of chances to stop Hitler before his military power grew and didn't. His simple act of building up his military forces was a direct violation of the treaty and enough of a reason to stop him. Now, we may not have to worry about fighting an armed forces like Hitler's with Korea or Iran, but we have to worry about countries with nuclear capabilities launching warheads on rockets or even possibly using suitcase bombs in cities. In 1936 there was no reason, they weren't scared. Treaties are often violated more or less, they didn't see it as a problem then. A war was not justified by then. In 1938 it could have been started but it wouldn't necesarily turn out well for the allies, so they didn't. What's going on now is a sideshow on global level, it's in nobody's interest to start a war. Who said that war was necessary? There are a lot of other things we can do like simply shooting down Korean missiles before they get to the Sea of Japan and enforcing trade embargoes and implementing new ones. All your argument is doing is showing that attempting to pacify and appease militant dictators with kind words and rewards for bad acts allows them the chance to create a real war and kill millions just because we're too afraid and PC to take a hard line. Sigh, so you're suggesting that the way the USA is currently acting creates the possibility of a real war. You have any better ideas? Please come up with some. Also show what part of my argument is showing that attempting to pacify and appease militant dictators with kind words and rewards for bad acts allows them the chance to create a real war. and kill millions just because we're too afraid and PC to take a hard line. Well yes, the US are a afraid. I am willing to bet my life that they're not going to interfere in an east Asian land conflict in at least the next 50 years. If they are actually going to invade North Korea it would cost hundreds thousands of lives and they both know it. So please suggest what other options are available.
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Hahaha, so that is the only connection between now and then? There have been hundreds of occasions where war might have been broken out, but didn't, and everyone lived in peace again. I'm not alone on this either, I am convinced that the USA is more likely to invade Canada, than North Korea. Hundreds of cases of entire continents being invaded and genocide being committed? Are you really that stupid? North Korea is just as elaborate in its pursuits as Nazi Germany was--and they have fucking nuclear weapons. Combine that with a severe hatred of South Korea, Taiwan, and Japan (all of which are allies of America) and you have an oriental version of WWII. And....Canada? How arbitrary. Now who's making ridiculous comparisons?
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Hahaha, so that is the only connection between now and then? There have been hundreds of occasions where war might have been broken out, but didn't, and everyone lived in peace again. I'm not alone on this either, I am convinced that the USA is more likely to invade Canada, than North Korea. Hundreds of cases of entire continents being invaded and genocide being committed? Are you really that stupid? North Korea is just as elaborate in its pursuits as Nazi Germany was--and they have fucking nuclear weapons. Combine that with a severe hatred of South Korea, Taiwan, and Japan (all of which are allies of America) and you have an oriental version of WWII. And....Canada? How arbitrary. Now who's making ridiculous comparisons? Yea, because they really knew beforehand entire continents were going to be invaded and genocide was going to be commited. What you're suggesting now is ridiculous, you even know that North Korea relies on foreign aid? And that famine is going to kill millions (again) if they're not getting it? I was using Canada as an example to show how unlikely it is that the US are going to invade North Korea.
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Yea, because they really knew beforehand entire continents were going to be invaded and genocide was going to be commited. So you're agreeing with me then. In both instances, we know that there is and was mutual aspirations towards invasion and genocide. What you're suggesting now is ridiculous, you even know that North Korea relies on foreign aid? And that famine is going to kill millions (again) if they're not getting it? Uh, okay. I'm sure their nuclear program is severely affected by a famine. It's sure to keep out outlying Asian outlaws safe. I was using Canada as an example to show how unlikely it is that the US are going to invade North Korea. You said that it was more likely to be invaded by us.
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In 1936 there were no plans for genocide or invasions yet.
The agressive nature of North Korea is part of the Juche idea, it's the last beacon of Stalinism. It's their way of getting the population to have faith in the strength of the nation.
And I indeed say it's more likely they invade Canada, than North Korea.
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In 1936 there were no plans for genocide or invasions yet. Naivete? The Wermacht had begun construction pre-1936. Invasion isn't that much more apparent. The agressive nature of North Korea is part of the Juche idea, it's the last beacon of Stalinism. It's their way of getting the population to have faith in the strength of the nation. Yes. I'm sure that's why they're amassing nuclear weapons. And I indeed say it's more likely they invade Canada, than North Korea. Which makes absolutely no sense.
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We can never know for sure what Hitler thought. He probably knew war was going to happen soon or later if he wanted more lebensraum for the German people. But that wasn't known to the outside world.
But eh, have you ever heard about the cold war? Hundreds of nuclear weapons were used but not a single one got used, I wonder what makes you think that North Korea suddendly wants to use them on anyone.
And the USA isn't going to invade Asia anymore because they learned from previous Asian land wars they should never try such a thing again, especially in Korea.
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We can never know for sure what Hitler thought. Yes we can. He wanted to invade. So he did. But eh, have you ever heard about the cold war? Hundreds of nuclear weapons were used but not a single one got used, I wonder what makes you think that North Korea suddendly wants to use them on anyone. Yeah, the problem here is that Russia wasn't run by idiots....Well, they were idiots, but they were calculated idiots and they had something to lose. North Korea is run by a truly insane dictator whose surrounded himself by an insane administration. And the USA isn't going to invade Asia anymore because they learned from previous Asian land wars they should never try such a thing again, especially in Korea I believe you mean Vietnam. That wars problems were very specialized. That is to say it wasn't a matter of us not being able to invade Vietnam. When simply went about it the wrong way. In any event, topography is not going to sway us from war if we decide to saddle up for one.
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No you can't, explain how they could know beforehand they were going to invade Poland.
The North Korea may come across insane, but Kim Jong-Il really isn't dumb. Considering the circumstances, he's not doing a bad job still having his country alive in 21th century. If he was an idiot North Korea would've collapsed a long time ago already.
North Korea has an infinatly stronger and bigger army than North Vietnam had, they're going to dig themselve in and if the USA tries anything the amount of casualities are going to be way higher than they can explain at home. An actual invasion is completely out of the question.
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No you can't, explain how they could know beforehand they were going to invade Poland. He was amassing an army and building an arsenal of war technology. I believe he was already in the midst of trade with Russia for supplies. There's very good evidence of an invasion. The North Korea may come across insane, but Kim Jong-Il really isn't dumb. Considering the circumstances, he's not doing a bad job still having his country alive in 21th century. If he was an idiot North Korea would've collapsed a long time ago already. I didn't say he was an idiot. I said he's crazy. North Korea has an infinatly stronger and bigger army than North Vietnam had, they're going to dig themselve in and if the USA tries anything the amount of casualities are going to be way higher than they can explain at home. An actual invasion is completely out of the question. I'm sure that's what we thought before we sent Marines into Iwo Jima. When push comes to shove. War is inevitable.
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How is building a big army and researching war technology a prospection for invasion? At that time every nation in the world would put as much strength in their army as their economy allowed them to.
He might be crazy but he's much too proud to make his country commit suicide.
And on 101th division, how is that? How can you make compare these?
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You know that I think the same about you, the idea that you guys actually are convinced of being right here is enough of a motivation for me to keep coming up with counter arguments even though it's fucking pointless since the arguments I see being put here are absolutely apeshit crazy.
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How is building a big army and researching war technology a prospection for invasion? At that time every nation in the world would put as much strength in their army as their economy allowed them to. Der Wermacht means "War Machine." WAR. W. A. R. He might be crazy but he's much too proud to make his country commit suicide. ....Uh....No he doesn't. And on 101th division, how is that? How can you make compare these? The 101st was in the Battle of Bulge. I actually decided to go with Iwo Jima since it's better example but both refer to situations in which America invaded areas intensely trenched by the enemy.
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terrible podcaster 15000+ posts
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we decided not to invade mainland japan for that reason, but maybe the workaround we used there will work on north korea!
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And if we hadn't used the work around, we still would have gone into Japan.
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terrible podcaster 15000+ posts
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I prefer the workaround. it's shiny.
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no matter what side of the political spectrum you fall on, i think we can all agree shiny is good.
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One dumb question, Juche. Have you ever even read Mein Kampf?
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its just FOX News propaganda against Hitler.
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NAZI MOB MENTALISTS!
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How is building a big army and researching war technology a prospection for invasion? At that time every nation in the world would put as much strength in their army as their economy allowed them to. Der Wermacht means "War Machine." WAR. W. A. R. He might be crazy but he's much too proud to make his country commit suicide. ....Uh....No he doesn't. And on 101th division, how is that? How can you make compare these? The 101st was in the Battle of Bulge. I actually decided to go with Iwo Jima since it's better example but both refer to situations in which America invaded areas intensely trenched by the enemy. No Wehr Macht does not mean War Machine, please do stop embarrassing yourself. It actually means Resistance Power. And you apparantly know nothing about North Korea too, if that's all you can come up with. The Battle of the Bulge is indeed completely uncomparable to a hypothetical invasion of North Korea. And with Iwo Jima, the Japanese were enormously outnumbered, another bad example. One dumb question, Juche. Have you ever even read Mein Kampf? Yes I have, even though it's illegal to sell and possess where I live. Mein Kampf described what a lot of Germans felt at that time, that they were cheated out of the war.
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And, it clearly showed his ambitions for war.
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That was written in the 20's, every German had ambitions for revenge then, because in their eyes they were cheated out of the war. Do you really think that's enough of a reason to invade?
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His clear intention of wanting war with France and the USSR, rebuilding the Wehrmacht, violating term after term of the treaty your country is bound to, and threatening neighbors with invasion for supposed "atrocities" against the German people and then saying to those who could bitch slap you easily that this is all about fairness and peace does make a pretty solid argument that you ought to do something before this guy has the chance to do something really bad.
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So, according to Juche, a build up of a military and unambiguous statements of a desire to attack other nations are "inconclusive" evidence of a threat. According to the rest of the world it's a stated plan.
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every German had ambitions for revenge then, because in their eyes they were cheated out of the war. Wow. I would like to see you support this idea that every German felt this way.
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So, according to Juche, a build up of a military and unambiguous statements of a desire to attack other nations are "inconclusive" evidence of a threat. According to the rest of the world it's a stated plan.
Last edited by iggy; 2009-06-02 7:21 PM.
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every German had ambitions for revenge then, because in their eyes they were cheated out of the war. Wow. I would like to see you support this idea that every German felt this way. It also begs the question: if every German agreed with Hitler we should have killed even more them, eh? So much for the theory that the bombing of Dresden was overkill.
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