There were hints yesterday about having to postpone a vote, but that might have been a feint to dissuade opponents from last-minute opposition efforts.
President Barack Obama is traveling to Capitol Hill on Saturday to try to close the sale on his signature health care overhaul, facing a make-or-break vote in the House certain to be seen as a test of his presidency.
Obama scheduled a late-morning visit with House Democrats convening a rare Saturday session on legislation to remake the U.S. health care system, extending coverage to tens of millions now uninsured and banning insurance company practices such as denial of coverage based on pre-existing medical problems.
Late Friday, House Democrats cleared an abortion-related impasse blocking a vote and officials expressed optimism they had finally lined up the support needed to pass Obama's signature issue.
Under the arrangement, Democratic Reps. Bart Stupak of Michigan, Brad Ellsworth of Indiana and other abortion opponents were promised an opportunity to insert tougher restrictions into the legislation during debate on the House floor.
The leadership's hope is that no matter how that vote turns out, Democrats on both sides of the abortion divide will then unite to give the health care bill a majority over unanimous Republican opposition.
"We wish to maintain current law, which says no public funding for abortion," Stupak said. "We are not writing a new federal abortion policy."
No chance for the public to access the finalized bill online and read it. No chance for those being asked to vote it in to law to read it and analyze it and seek out comment and guidance from their constituents. Just a slammed-through vote, because Democrats can’t allow this ugly thing to hang out in public view any longer than necessary.
It’s said so often that it’s become cliche, but you can still make a difference with a phone call. Given the short notice, calling Washington DC directly is probably the best tact.
Here’s the number: (202)224-3121.
The un-American way of liberals on full display:
1) The Democrats feigned that they would delay the vote, to minimize Republican, Blue-dog, Independent and Democrat opposition, and now are forcing the vote today as planned.
2) Against what Obama himself promised (that proposed legislation would be posted online so that leaders and the people would have adequate time to read it, understand it and ask questions), the vote is being forced before anyone with questions can read the bill.
If they pass this bill, they will have to enforce it at bayonet-point. And will pay a very heavy price for it in 2010 and 2012.
It is a political coup against the will of the people, that relies on deceit and manipulation, and is illegitimate even if it succeeds. And it is a call to arms for patriotic Americans. We are being hijacked.
universal health care, a terrorist attack and george lopez and wanda dykes are each getting their own talk shows this month. I don't think things could get any worse.
November 6th, 2012: Americas new Independence Day.
Historic healthcare overhaul passes House The 220-215 vote marks the first such victory in decades of efforts to expand insurance coverage. The bill wins a lone GOP vote and loses many Democrats, pointing to challenges awaiting in the Senate. ...
HOUSE PASSES HEALTH CARE BILL The 220-215 vote cleared the way for the Senate to begin debate on the issue that has come to overshadow all others in Congress.
Quote:
(AP) In a victory for President Obama, the Democratic-controlled House narrowly passed landmark health care legislation Saturday night to expand coverage to tens of millions who lack it and place tough new restrictions on the insurance industry. Republican opposition was nearly unanimous.
The 220-215 vote cleared the way for the Senate to begin a long-delayed debate on the issue that has come to overshadow all others in Congress.
A triumphant Speaker Nancy Pelosi likened the legislation to the passage of Social Security in 1935 and Medicare 30 years later -- and Obama issued a statement saying, "I look forward to signing it into law by the end of the year."
"It provides coverage for 96 percent of Americans. It offers everyone, regardless of health or income, the peace of mind that comes from knowing they will have access to affordable health care when they need it," said Rep. John Dingell, the 83-year-old Michigan lawmaker who has introduced national health insurance in every Congress since succeeding his father in 1955.
In the run-up to a final vote, conservatives from the two political parties joined forces to impose tough new restrictions on abortion coverage in insurance policies to be sold to many individuals and small groups. They prevailed on a roll call of 240-194.
Ironically, that only solidified support for the legislation, clearing the way for conservative Democrats to vote for it.
The legislation would require most Americans to carry insurance and provide federal subsidies to those who otherwise could not afford it. Large companies would have to offer coverage to their employees. Both consumers and companies would be slapped with penalties if they defied the government's mandates.
Insurance industry practices such as denying coverage on the basis of pre-existing medical conditions would be banned, and insurers would no longer be able to charge higher premiums on the basis of gender or medical history. In a further slap, the industry would lose its exemption from federal antitrust restrictions on price fixing and market allocation.
At its core, the measure would create a federally regulated marketplace where consumers could shop for coverage. In the bill's most controversial provision, the government would sell insurance, although the Congressional Budget Office forecasts that premiums for it would be more expensive than for policies sold by private firms.
A cheer went up from the Democratic side of the House when the bill gained 218 votes, a majority. Moments later, Democrats counted down the final seconds of the voting period in unison, and let loose an even louder roar when Pelosi grabbed the gavel and declared, "the bill is passed."
The bill drew the votes of 219 Democrats and Rep. Joseph Cao, a first-term Republican who holds an overwhelmingly Democratic seat in New Orleans. Opposed were 176 Republicans and 39 Democrats.
From the Senate, Majority Leader Harry Reid of Nevada issued a statement saying, "We realize the strong will for reform that exists, and we are energized that we stand closer than ever to reforming our broken health insurance system."
In his written statement, Obama praised the House's action and said, "now the United State Senate must follow suit and pass its version of the legislation. I am absolutely confident it will."
Shortly after the bill's passage, the president sent out an e-mail solicitation asking for donations to the Organizing for America, saying "the coming days will put our efforts to the ultimate test. Winning will require each of us to give everything we can, starting right now."
Nearly unanimous in their opposition, minority Republicans cataloged their objections across hours of debate on the 1,990-page, $1.2 trillion legislation.
“This was a difficult decision; one that I have struggled with for months. But at the most basic level, my support for this bill is based on my strong belief that we literally cannot afford to leave this challenge unaddressed," Rep. Brad Ellsworth, D-Ind., said.
United in opposition, minority Republicans cataloged their objections across hours of debate on the 1,990-page, $1.2 trillion legislation.
"We are going to have a complete government takeover of our health care system faster than you can say, `this is making me sick,"' jabbed Rep. Candice Miller, R-Mich., adding that Democrats were intent on passing "a jobs-killing, tax-hiking, deficit-exploding" bill.
But with little doubt about the outcome, the rhetoric lacked the fire of last summer's town hall meetings, when some critics accused Democrats of plotting "death panels" to hasten the demise of senior citizens.
The bill is projected to expand coverage to 36 million uninsured, resulting in 96 percent of the nation's eligible population having insurance.
To pay for the expansion of coverage, the bill cuts Medicare's projected spending by more than $400 billion over a decade. It also imposes a tax surcharge of 5.4 percent on income over $500,000 in the case of individuals and $1 million for families.
The bill was estimated to reduce federal deficits by about $104 billion over a decade, although it lacked two of the key cost-cutting provisions under consideration in the Senate, and its longer-term impact on government red ink was far from clear.
Democrats lined up a range of outside groups behind their legislation, none more important than the AARP, whose support promises political cover against the cuts to Medicare in next year's congressional elections.
The nation's drug companies generally support health care overhaul. And while the powerful insurance industry opposed the legislation, it did so quietly, and the result was that Republicans could not count on the type of advertising campaign that might have peeled away skittish Democrats in swing districts.
Over all, the bill envisioned the most sweeping set of changes to the health care system in more than a generation, and Democrats said it marked the culmination of a campaign that Harry Truman began when he sat in the White House 60 years ago.
Debate on the House floor had already begun when Obama strode into a closed-door meeting of the Democratic rank and file across the street from the Capitol to make a final personal appeal to them to pass his top domestic priority.
Later, in an appearance at the White House, he said he had told lawmakers, "to rise to this moment. Answer the call of history, and vote yes for health insurance reform for America."
It appeared that a compromise brokered Friday night on the volatile issue of abortion had finally secured the votes needed to pass the legislation.
As drafted, the measure denied the use of federal subsidies to purchase abortion coverage in policies sold by private insurers in the new insurance exchange, except in cases of incest, rape or when the life of the mother was in danger.
But abortion foes won far stronger restrictions that would rule out abortion coverage except in those three categories in any government-sold plan. It would also ban abortion coverage in any private plan purchased by consumers receiving federal subsidies.
Disappointed Democratic abortion rights supporters grumbled about the turn of events, but pulled back quickly from any thought of opposing the health care bill in protest.
One, Rep. Jan Schakowsky, D-Ill., detailed numerous other benefits for women in the bill, including free medical preventive services and better prescription drug coverage under Medicare. "Women need health care reform," she concluded in remarks on the House floor.
A Republican alternative was rejected on a near party line vote of 258-176.
It relied heavily on loosening regulations on private insurers to reduce costs for those who currently have insurance, in some cases by as much as 10 percent. But congressional budget analysts said the plan would make no dent in the ranks of the uninsured, an assessment that highlighted the difference in priorities between the two political parties.
___
The Associated Press contributed to this report.
Good luck getting this past the Senate. Although it scares me this sham was enabled to be pushed forward this far. Unread, unscrutinized, railroaded past honest debate. How could anyone support this kind of dishonest legislation?
This is not a bill that will improve anything. It's like the medical prescription plan under W. Bush and Ted Kennedy, that will just create another enormous entitlement that will further bankrupt our already-13-trillion-indebted nation. This is garbage legislation that Democrats will hold up to the uninformed to say "Look, we did something." When in truth, the nation would be far better off if they didn't.
Obama promised us public debate, and a chance for legislators and the public to read the bill before it was voted on. Instead we got deception and a private backroom deal by (Marxist) liberal elites.
This is just Democrats ramming through something the public doesn't want. And even with their overwhelming majority, it still barely passed. This is not will of the people. This is tyranny and deception.
Liberals who bemoan discrimination, intolerance, restraint of Constitutional freedoms, and promotion of hatred toward various abberant minorities, have absolutely no problem with discriminating against, being intolerant of, restricting Constitutional freedoms of, and directing hate-filled scapegoat rhetoric against conservatives.
EXACTLY what they accuse Republicans/conservatives of doing, is EXACTLY what liberals/Democrats do themselves, to those who oppose their beliefs.
From Free Speech in Era of Obama topic, 8-6-2009 :
Originally Posted By: Wonder Boy
Obama in his own words : His goal is a single-payer system, that will drive private insurance out of business. Contrary to what Obama normally says, alleging a single payer system is not his goal.
When in truth (opposite what Obama tells the American people) his goal is to crush all private health insurance, that will be unable to compete with a vastly cheaper state-run single-payer healthcare system. And as planned by Obama, private insurance will gradually be run out of business over "10, 15, maybe 20 years".
Everything is going according to plan. Our comrades in Moscow will be pleased.
Quoting glenn beck makes you wrong. Actually, using any other persons words makes you wrong. Learn to think for yourself. Stop worshiping television personalities.
November 6th, 2012: Americas new Independence Day.
Quoting glenn beck makes you wrong. Actually, using any other persons words makes you wrong. Learn to think for yourself. Stop worshiping television personalities.
Rex, you're a dumbass. I don't even particularly like Glenn Beck. But I can't deny the validity of the audio and video quotes of Obama and his appointees that Beck cites. (see Obama quote above, to name one) You've yet to disprove one word I've said. And Beck's ever increasing viewership demonstrates that not just me, but tens of millions of others also find his insights valid.
I think for myself every time I listen to the excrement the liberal media gives every day, and reject it. Most recently the sympathetic portrayal of Hasan shooting up a Texas military base, portraying it as "post traumatic stress" despite that Hasan has never been to Iraq or Afghanistan, and the media's rationalizing Hasan's criticism of the Iraq and Afghan wars to somehow excuse his homicidal behavior. (Frankly Rex, I wonder how far away from a Texas Tower incident you are yourself. Your dysfunction and antisocial tendencies are well known here.)
I also think for myself every time you troll on me. Once again, your obsessive focus on whatever I post is pathological.
Speaking of freak-outs and tower-shootings, I'm pretty certain the Evil Communist Domination of America won't be born out of giving everyone adequate health care. If that's all the Right-Wing Extremists can dream up to scare people, you need to regroup and rethink your strategy. It makes you come off like one of those crazy homeless doomsayers that rail about the end of the world with big signs. In other words, Glenn Beck, Sean Hannity, and Bill O'Reilley without the greed and money...
Speaking of freak-outs and tower-shootings, I'm pretty certain the Evil Communist Domination of America won't be born out of giving everyone adequate health care. If that's all the Right-Wing Extremists can dream up to scare people, you need to regroup and rethink your strategy. It makes you come off like one of those crazy homeless doomsayers that rail about the end of the world with big signs. In other words, Glenn Beck, Sean Hannity, and Bill O'Reilley without the greed and money...
Except that you can't dispute the facts of what Beck, Hannity, O'Reilly, etc., are saying. The Office of Management and Budget confirms these numbers.
It's a pure and simple fact that the debt is now at 13 trillion, and expected to climb another 20 trillion over the next 10 years alone. WITHOUT a trillion-plus new spending on a government takeover of healthcare.
It's unsustainable. It's unquestionably the path to economic collapse. It's unquestionably leading to collapse of the dollar and hyperinflation.
And (as I presented above in Obama's own videotaped words) the plan is to introduce state-funded (i.e., single-payer) healthcare that is intended to make it impossible for private health insurance to compete, and replace private care with a 100% state-run system "over 10, 15, 20 years", where the state, not individuals, determines who gets care and who dies.
State-run health insurance alone won't make us become the Soviet Union, but there is a takeover of every major private institution of our economy that has occurred over the last year. It is not "crazy" or "right-wing-extremist" paranoid fantasy, it is a fact that these things are occurring. And once the private capitalist economy is wrecked, it can't be put back together. (Again: see the Glenn Beck tree of revolution youtube clip I posted above) None of this is paranoid or speculative, it is simply quoted, in the videotaped words of Obama and his ministers.
Yopu can't disprove what he's saying, so rather than address the facts presented, you slander Beck and the others, and myself, personally. Standard marxist-liberal tactics, from the 1960s forward.
Originally Posted By: Moscow Central Committee, 1943
Members and front organizations must continually embarass, discredit and degrade our critics.When obstructionists become too irritating, label them as fascist, or Nazi or anti-Semitic... The association will, after enough repetition, become "fact" in the public mind.
And again, you've used dismissive slander to bypass critics of your ideology, and deflect criticism of the quantifiably destructive actions of Democrats.
Liberals who bemoan discrimination, intolerance, restraint of Constitutional freedoms, and promotion of hatred toward various abberant minorities, have absolutely no problem with discriminating against, being intolerant of, restricting Constitutional freedoms of, and directing hate-filled scapegoat rhetoric against conservatives.
EXACTLY what they accuse Republicans/conservatives of doing, is EXACTLY what liberals/Democrats do themselves, to those who oppose their beliefs.
Speaking of freak-outs and tower-shootings, I'm pretty certain the Evil Communist Domination of America won't be born out of giving everyone adequate health care. If that's all the Right-Wing Extremists can dream up to scare people, you need to regroup and rethink your strategy. It makes you come off like one of those crazy homeless doomsayers that rail about the end of the world with big signs. In other words, Glenn Beck, Sean Hannity, and Bill O'Reilley without the greed and money...
You must be a fan of left wing extremists? do you just lump anyone opposed to the health care waste as right-wing extremist?
Do you actually know anything any of those men have said about the Health Care bill or are you just spouting the Obama line that all opposition is extremist? What makes me think so is you've lumped O'Reilly in with Hannity and Beck.
Beck and Hannity are far right(Beck more Far Right Loon), but O'Reilly as far as I can tell is libertarian. Does someone not wanting government in every facet of their lives make them extremist? Do you consider the founders of America extremist for not wanting the government to tell them how to conduct every facet of their business?
Exaggeration, far-Right propaganda, and misleading slander: The FOX News way. One message, different talking-heads. It's always been the same thing.
Crying because your party lost a purely political-points battle? That's business as usual. Crying about a Healthcare plan to the tune of suddenly warping reality into a communist panic-attack? That's extremism...
Exaggeration, far-Right propaganda, and misleading slander: The FOX News way. One message, different talking-heads. It's always been the same thing.
Crying because your party lost a purely political-points battle? That's business as usual. Crying about a Healthcare plan to the tune of suddenly warping reality into a communist panic-attack? That's extremism...
Answered with all the catch-phrases and talking points of the liberal-indoctrinated.
You gloat about a minor political victory in Congress, that will be reversed in the Senate. You ignore that all the Democrat negotiations are behind closed doors, and rushed through to hide their actions as long as possible from the American public. As the truth gets out, public support of Obama, Reid Pelosi and their Obamacare plan declines every week. Their only hope is to deceive the American public, and hustle something through quickly and unscrutinized, slandering their opposition every step of the way.
And again: you haven't answered any of the points I raised. What the Democrats are spending is unsusstainable. Those "crazy far-Right wingers" at the Office of Management and Budget still agree with my numbers. How long can Obama's health-care plan last, if Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid are already forseeably bankrupt?
We already see the dollar falling agaainst other currencies. We already see the Chinese and other nations shifting to gold and other assets, over U.S. treasury bills. We see the O.P.E.C nations pushing to get off the dollar as the oil currency, and shift to a "basket of currencies".
But that's all just "right wing paranoia", right Promod?
Liberals who bemoan discrimination, intolerance, restraint of Constitutional freedoms, and promotion of hatred toward various abberant minorities, have absolutely no problem with discriminating against, being intolerant of, restricting Constitutional freedoms of, and directing hate-filled scapegoat rhetoric against conservatives.
EXACTLY what they accuse Republicans/conservatives of doing, is EXACTLY what liberals/Democrats do themselves, to those who oppose their beliefs.
Exaggeration, far-Right propaganda, and misleading slander: The FOX News way. One message, different talking-heads. It's always been the same thing.
Crying because your party lost a purely political-points battle? That's business as usual. Crying about a Healthcare plan to the tune of suddenly warping reality into a communist panic-attack? That's extremism...
And by the way, how is Beck, Hannity, O'Reilly, and FOX News' simply playing the videotaped comments of Barack Obama, Barney Frank, Van Jones and other Democrats in their own words, slander ?
"Extremism" for you is anyone who opposes the Democrats' radical and deceitful power-grab, quoting Democrats in their own words reveal how their actions and ambitions are radical and deceitful.
Liberals who bemoan discrimination, intolerance, restraint of Constitutional freedoms, and promotion of hatred toward various abberant minorities, have absolutely no problem with discriminating against, being intolerant of, restricting Constitutional freedoms of, and directing hate-filled scapegoat rhetoric against conservatives.
EXACTLY what they accuse Republicans/conservatives of doing, is EXACTLY what liberals/Democrats do themselves, to those who oppose their beliefs.
From Free Speech in Era of Obama topic, 8-6-2009 :
Originally Posted By: Wonder Boy
Obama in his own words : His goal is a single-payer system, that will drive private insurance out of business. Contrary to what Obama normally says, alleging a single payer system is not his goal.
When in truth (opposite what Obama tells the American people) his goal is to crush all private health insurance, that will be unable to compete with a vastly cheaper state-run single-payer healthcare system. And as planned by Obama, private insurance will gradually be run out of business over "10, 15, maybe 20 years".
Pro, ignore the pedo rants for a minute and answer one question. Are you at all worried about the government taking over health care, business and student loans, among other things? Does it worry you that the government has never run a business successfully?
November 6th, 2012: Americas new Independence Day.
Pro, ignore the pedo rants for a minute and answer one question. Are you at all worried about the government taking over health care, business and student loans, among other things? Does it worry you that the government has never run a business successfully?
Honestly? No. We've tried it the other way for long enough, and it's gotten us into the poor healthcare condition we've got today. It's time to try something different and see if that works...
Pro, ignore the pedo rants for a minute and answer one question. Are you at all worried about the government taking over health care, business and student loans, among other things? Does it worry you that the government has never run a business successfully?
Honestly? No. We've tried it the other way for long enough, and it's gotten us into the poor healthcare condition we've got today. It's time to try something different and see if that works...
That's probably what a lot of Jews said to each other, on the train to Auschwitz.
It can get a lot worse, and despite that the writing is on the wall and the result can be seen far in advance, you dismiss any presentation of history demonstrating that outcome(Weimar Germany, Japan in the 1990s, the U.S. in the 70s), you dismiss that evidence as "right-wing paranoia" and ""
You're the whiner here Promod, shouting baseless slogans. I'm just listing the facts.
Liberals who bemoan discrimination, intolerance, restraint of Constitutional freedoms, and promotion of hatred toward various abberant minorities, have absolutely no problem with discriminating against, being intolerant of, restricting Constitutional freedoms of, and directing hate-filled scapegoat rhetoric against conservatives.
EXACTLY what they accuse Republicans/conservatives of doing, is EXACTLY what liberals/Democrats do themselves, to those who oppose their beliefs.
Honestly? No. We've tried it the other way for long enough, and it's gotten us into the poor healthcare condition we've got today. It's time to try something different and see if that works...
That's probably what a lot of Jews said to each other, on the train to Auschwitz.
LMFAO!!!!!!
Yes. Yes, David. I am certain that Jews riding to Auschwitz said to one another, "We've tried it the other way for long enough, and it's gotten us into the poor healthcare condition we've got today. It's time to try something different and see if that works..."
Quote:
You're the whiner here Promod, shouting baseless slogans.
I'm not shouting anything. I'm just making fun of the extremist scare tactics that you throw out...
Quote:
I'm just listing the facts.
Yes, and those Jews are mighty thankful for your inspired perspective...
Exaggeration, far-Right propaganda, and misleading slander: The FOX News way. One message, different talking-heads. It's always been the same thing.
Crying because your party lost a purely political-points battle? That's business as usual. Crying about a Healthcare plan to the tune of suddenly warping reality into a communist panic-attack? That's extremism...
what are you blathering about? You haven't cited anything to link the guys you've linked except they work for the same company. Obama issued an political edict that Fox was bad and everyone their is bad, is that your only basis?
Pro, ignore the pedo rants for a minute and answer one question. Are you at all worried about the government taking over health care, business and student loans, among other things? Does it worry you that the government has never run a business successfully?
Honestly? No. We've tried it the other way for long enough, and it's gotten us into the poor healthcare condition we've got today. It's time to try something different and see if that works...
What is the poor health care condition that we have today? Do you realize we have the best health care in the world? Where do people go when they have nearly untreatable cancers or heart conditions? Do they go to China or Cuba or do they come to the United States? You can't just throw out catchphrases and try and seem intelligent.
Name one socialist/communist country that is admirable? Do you find Cuba, China, or the Soviet Union as good states?
Do you realize we have the best health care in the world?
well that's not good enough compared to the standard of ABSOLUTELY PERFECT EVERYTHING liberals want to compare things to.
see, I like pro, he's good people. but he has what I like to call 'roddenberry syndrome'. smart guy, can appreciate the value of a good idea, has plenty of good ideas of his own. fantastic ideas, in fact. ideas that form the framework of the perfect utopian society OF THE FUTURE!!1! where everyone has free health care and the best of everything, which is after all the ultimate goal of the future utopia portrayed in the trek. (which was created for hippies. damn dirty hippies.)
the problem is that people like that get so fixated on good ideas that it doesn't necessarily occur to them to run even a cursory cost-benefit analysis in their head on the impact such a sweeping change as universal health care (since godwin's law is already in play, I'm declaring that "public option" has replaced "final solution" as the king of euphemisms) might have on an already struggling economy. yes, it would be wonderful if everyone in the country had access to health care. it's a lovely idea. it's just that making that idea into reality will seriously fuck up the economy and put one hell of a dent in the constitution. free universal health care might be the sign of an evolved society in the starry eyes of liberal legislators, sophomore diversity studies majors, and sci-fi authors, but they would probably change their tune pretty quick if they were the ones who had to pick up most of the tab for it.
@ all the "scary" post titles people can come up with in this forum!
