The man in the white shirt is the same man who maced the group of innocent girls for no reason:
Anthony Bologna NYPD Deputy Inspector Patrol Boro Manhattan South (212)477-6181 To file a complaint about this man please call: Internal Affairs(212) 741-8401
Please, everyone, turn off the partisanship just this once. PLEASE! Just this once. Let's all agree, as Americans, things need to change. Look at what we are becoming:
So, are you towing the official line and saying nay to the peaceful protestors? Or do you understand/support their cause?
All kidding aside, I don't see how it's an "either/or" situation.
I don't support their cause (socialism and fake anarchy).
At the same time I don't think general verbal and visual assholery justifies police brutality. If the protesters weren't acting in a manner that warranted the use of force, the officers involved were wrong.
Of course, even if the police are guilty here (and I don't discount that possibility one bit), that doesn't mean America has turned into an Orwellian police state, despite what the Niles Crane lookalike on MSNBC says. It simply means some cops are bad.
You tell us to turn off the bipartisan ship and they you post something from msnbc? You are the liberal wondy.
If you want to fix the economy, cut off all the protesters government aid. That will force them to get jobs and stop leaching off of society.
You are an ignorant, deluded, selfish little child. I no longer enjoy talking to you because you are a coward. Someone so obsessed with their view they can't drop bias for ten seconds to feel empathy towards a common cause designed to benefit even you. Which makes you exactly everything you baby-cry about. We're done. I'm ignoring you now, you fucking idiot.
All kidding aside, I don't see how it's an "either/or" situation.
I don't support their cause (socialism and fake anarchy).
Wait, are you certain that's their aim? Where do you get that info?
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At the same time I don't think general verbal and visual assholery justifies police brutality. If the protesters weren't acting in a manner that warranted the use of force, the officers involved were wrong.
Agreed.
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Of course, even if the police are guilty here (and I don't discount that possibility one bit), that doesn't mean America has turned into an Orwellian police state, despite what the Niles Crane lookalike on MSNBC says. It simply means some cops are bad.
I don't know, man. I think you're not seeing the forest for the trees. The media has this on a blackout, EXCEPT MSNBC. Which is why I was forced to use them. No one else is reporting this stuff, and it's been going on for five days now. I think this will only get worse...
You tell us to turn off the bipartisan ship and they you post something from msnbc? You are the liberal wondy.
If you want to fix the economy, cut off all the protesters government aid. That will force them to get jobs and stop leaching off of society.
You are an ignorant, deluded, selfish little child. I no longer enjoy talking to you because you are a coward. Someone so obsessed with their view they can't drop bias for ten seconds to feel empathy towards a common cause designed to benefit even you. Which makes you exactly everything you baby-cry about. We're done. I'm ignoring you now, you fucking idiot.
You know, Pro, in all seriousness, that really does read like your were trying to do a "liberal Wondy" rant.
You tell us to turn off the bipartisan ship and they you post something from msnbc? You are the liberal wondy.
If you want to fix the economy, cut off all the protesters government aid. That will force them to get jobs and stop leaching off of society.
You are an ignorant, deluded, selfish little child. I no longer enjoy talking to you because you are a coward. Someone so obsessed with their view they can't drop bias for ten seconds to feel empathy towards a common cause designed to benefit even you. Which makes you exactly everything you baby-cry about. We're done. I'm ignoring you now, you fucking idiot.
You know, Pro, in all seriousness, that really does read like your were trying to do a "liberal Wondy" rant.
...that was the point...
You know Rex. There's no getting through to him. He's as shut-off as Wondy. That's why it's far better to just mock him...
I'm all for the Occupy Wall Street protests and urge all sides to show support for it. Things are broken in this nation. And, while I am all for entitlement reform, I don't think it should be singularly targeted while this cronyism disguised as capitalism is allowed to continue. Should I point out that this is a rather non-partisan protest with Tea Partiers and Campaign for Liberty members joining in the dialogue and consensus building on goals? Will that get Fox not to just write this off as "leftist quackery?"
I'm all for the Occupy Wall Street protests and urge all sides to show support for it. Things are broken in this nation. And, while I am all for entitlement reform, I don't think it should be singularly targeted while this cronyism disguised as capitalism is allowed to continue. Should I point out that this is a rather non-partisan protest with Tea Partiers and Campaign for Liberty members joining in the dialogue and consensus building on goals?
Agreed! Exactly my point. This stretches across the aisles. Even if Wonder Boy himself came into this thread and declared he supported their cause, then in this thread, we would be as brothers. Partisanship is fun when you don't actually have real world problems to deal with. So, let's all agree that this is what America needs. A peaceful protest against the corporate crooks getting rich off the benefits they receive from the government, off the backs of the lower class.
Who is with me?
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Will that get Fox not to just write this off as "leftist quackery?"
So far, I cannot find any other major tv news source that's carrying this. Media blackout. I sincerely doubt an entertainment channel like Murdoch's FOXNews is going to support something that attacks people exactly like him. They're part of the system. Which is interesting that MSNBC would run it but not, say, NBC. Or ABC. Or FOX. Or anyone else.
All kidding aside, I don't see how it's an "either/or" situation.
I don't support their cause (socialism and fake anarchy).
Wait, are you certain that's their aim? Where do you get that info?
They've got a website. I looked through it. It's got the usual "revolutionary" trappings (the raised fist graphic, the rhetoric about revoluton, calls for a "Day of Rage," the references to Chomsky, the support of Michael Moore, etc.) that I've seen a dozen times in my near-half century on this earth living near and in Ithaca (the Berkeley of the East) and watching campus protesters. They're socialist/anarchist wannabes right out of the "Little Eichmanns" episode of "South Park".
Wait, he works for AL GORE?! Oh, fuck that guy. I wash my hands of Olberman, then. Al Gore...a politician I'd rank up there with Dick Cheney in my level of disgust with his continued presence on our planet...
BTW, speaking of Ithaca, Olbermann went to Cornell and worked in Ithaca radio while a student. See it really is a bunch of pseudo hippies getting together.
All kidding aside, I don't see how it's an "either/or" situation.
I don't support their cause (socialism and fake anarchy).
Wait, are you certain that's their aim? Where do you get that info?
They've got a website. I looked through it. It's got the usual "revolutionary" trappings (the raised fist graphic, the rhetoric about revoluton, calls for a "Day of Rage," the references to Chomsky, the support of Michael Moore, etc.) that I've seen a dozen times in my near-half century on this earth living near and in Ithaca (the Berkeley of the East) and watching campus protesters. They're socialist/anarchist wannabes right out of the "Little Eichmanns" episode of "South Park".
But, did they say they're aiming for Socialism and faux-Anarchy? We can sit here all day and pick out things about the protestors we may or may not like. But, that's ignoring the entire point of what they're protesting. Now, are you just judging a book by its Hippy-cover, or do you know for a fact those are their goals?
But, did they say they're aiming for Socialism and faux-Anarchy? We can sit here all day and pick out things about the protestors we may or may not like. But, that's ignoring the entire point of what they're protesting. Now, are you just judging a book by its Hippy-cover, or do you know for a fact those are their goals?
Yeah. The events, the slogans, everything...it's the same stuff on that website and in those videos I've seen since the 60s.
Yeah, I've more or less done the same (and would have even if Current was carried by my cable provider). But, I will also say that I have a soft spot in my heart for the Worst Persons in the World segment and will waste the bandwidth to view it.
On a similar note, that's also the rub of the Occupy Wall Street protests. Despite the inclusion of conservatives, it is being turned into a leftist thing by Current's coverage and the "show of support" from people like Michael Moore and Susan Sarandon. But, on the flip side, I guess no conservative voices want to look like they are biting the hand that is--apparently--feeding them.
So, Pro...the conversation seems to be shifting. And, as it shifts, I get the distinct impression that your point in this thread was not to condemn police brutality but to attempt to elicit sympathy for the protester's cause.
Again, I don't see the former (police brutality bad) as requiring the latter (damn dirty socialist hippies good).
So, Pro...the conversation seems to be shifting. And, as it shifts, I get the distinct impression that your point in this thread was not to condemn police brutality but to attempt to elicit sympathy for the protester's cause.
Again, I don't see the former (police brutality bad) as requiring the latter (damn dirty socialist hippies good).
My point, honestly...no bs...is that I see an injustice of peaceful protestors getting the shit kicked out of them by the NYPD, on Wall Street. It couldn't raise my "Oh Shit 1984 Fuck the Man Here We Go"-Alarms any more, unless they were wearing riot gear and gassing people. To simply shrug it off as an ideological "meh" (as I feel you are doing) screams partisan-or-class bias to me. I think because you have had a lot of experience with these things, you're just lumping their cause in with all the rest you have ideologically opposed in your square days. I don't really think you're being fair in your assessment.
These people are peacefully protesting, as is their American right. These thugs roped off sidewalks (that's illegal, btw) and then just started macing, beating, and arresting people. And I mean including journalists, women, old people, anyone. Their Wall Street masters called the city, and they sent an attack squad down to squash the peasant rebellion.
On a similar note, that's also the rub of the Occupy Wall Street protests. Despite the inclusion of conservatives, it is being turned into a leftist thing by Current's coverage and the "show of support" from people like Michael Moore and Susan Sarandon. But, on the flip side, I guess no conservative voices want to look like they are biting the hand that is--apparently--feeding them.
Yeah, this isn't about Left or Right or Tea Party or whatever. It's a very mixed crowd, per what I have read...
On a similar note, that's also the rub of the Occupy Wall Street protests. Despite the inclusion of conservatives, it is being turned into a leftist thing by Current's coverage and the "show of support" from people like Michael Moore and Susan Sarandon. But, on the flip side, I guess no conservative voices want to look like they are biting the hand that is--apparently--feeding them.
Yeah, this isn't about Left or Right or Tea Party or whatever. It's a very mixed crowd, per what I have read...
Exactly. It concerns us all. Wall Street, with the help of "public servants" on both sides, has engaged in a massive fraud that crashed our economy and brought ruin to many peoples lives. Yet, we're generally fed this bullshit line that they are somehow going to be the people to save us. It's sick. The Nazis lost (thankfully) but, fascism is alive and well.
...These people are peacefully protesting, as is their American right...
from what we can see. again, if all we know of an event is what the media allows us to see - and you said only one television network is covering this one - how do we know we're getting an objective presentation of everything that's going on? obviously every media outlet is going to exhibit some bias - they are after all run by human beings - but it's very easy to paint this whole thing as something it's not simply by being selective in what you choose to show and how often (see also: every conceivable example of michael moore's 'editing').
This is getting so little coverage by the media. Is it a case of media bias in not covering this?
It could just as easily be a case of the media knowing there’s more to the story that what’s in a YouTube video. It could also be that one or two cops pepper-spraying a few hippies isn’t national news. After all, most crime stories are local, not national.
I’d also point out that the New York Times, which is both the local and national paper in the area has covered the incident and stated an investigation has been launched (which is what happens in any police brutality case).
Originally Posted By: Sammitch
how do we know we're getting an objective presentation of everything that's going on... it's very easy to paint this whole thing as something it's not simply by being selective in what you choose to show and how often (see also: every conceivable example of michael moore's 'editing').
"It warms my heart to see all of you here," Moore told the few hundred people gathered at Zuccotti Park as part of the "Occupy Wall Street" protest. He told them they each represented thousands of other Americans, and to not lose heart, that "our power is derived from the people."
Moore posted a message on his Twitter account while he was still with the protesters stating: "This is just the beginning. Honored to be part of this."
He railed against Wall Street and the richest of the rich, saying "they have tried to take our democracy and turn it into a 'kleptocracy."'
Now, I’m not saying the involvement of Moore—an activist known for creating heavily edited and deceptive videos—proves these police are innocent. After all, there’s no proof he was even involved in editing the videos.
However, it does serve as a reminder that, as Sammitch notes, these things can be deceptively edited. It also serves as a reminder that there are people on the far left who have been known to do such things to advance a political point.
Originally Posted By: Pro
These people are peacefully protesting, as is their American right. These thugs roped off sidewalks (that's illegal, btw)
I realize the laws of each jurisdiction vary. But I am unaware of a law in New York City that criminalizes roping off sidewalks.
In fact, when I’ve been to NYC over the years I’ve seen sidewalks barricaded for any number of reasons: street fairs, television production and construction being common ones. Those barricades were all illegal?
In interviews, police officials described the lack of a permit and the fact that protesters were obstructing traffic as key factors in the arrests and the department’s decision to end the march.
“If you have a permit, the police will accommodate for things like diverting traffic,” Mr. Browne said. “If you take a street for a parade or protest without a permit, you are subject to arrest.”
Mr. Richter, of the police union, said that from the perspective of the protesters, the Police Department’s decision to suddenly end the demonstration might have appeared arbitrary.
“I can see it from a demonstrator’s view, asking, ‘What changed?’ ” Mr. Richter said. “But there comes a point when the command staff makes a decision that the crowd is too big, and we’re at a breaking point, and we have to take back the street.”
A city can, and does, require even “peaceful groups” to get permits. Try to hold a parade without one. If the protesters needed a permit and didn’t get one, that means they were acting illegally.
But, even if all that’s true, it doesn’t translate to the police having the right to use to use excessive force. And I said so. So why are you saying:
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simply [to] shrug it off as an ideological "meh" (as I feel you are doing) screams partisan-or-class bias to me.
I’ve made it clear I don't support police brutality (if in fact that is what occurred) regardless of the views of the protesters.
And that is how a free country is supposed to work. It’s like the old saying "I may disagree with what you have to say, but I shall defend to the death your right to say it.”
Free speech is not supposed to be dependent on whether or not the speaker’s message is offensive. Therefore, whether or not I’m offended by their message, or agree with it, is irrelevant to whether the protesters should be pepper-sprayed.
And, if the topic at hand is whether the police were justified then that’s pretty much the [happy] end of our discussion. We’re basically in agreement. We might quibble over whether the videos are accurate, or whether the protesters should have had a permit, but we can agree that, unless the officers had a legitimate basis to fear for their personal safety, they used excessive force.
However, despite that agreement, you keep bringing up the content of the protesters’ message. This led me to believe you are more interested in that message than the actions of the police. One could even assume this is less about condemning bad cops and more about trying to drum up sympathy for the hippies and their cause.
Again, I'm not accusing you of that, simply noting it could be seen as that.
Maybe so, but I gotta believe there is plenty of "footage" on YouTube.
Exactly. Anyone and everyone is completely welcome to go to YouTube and look up the BILLION videos shot from the street by a million people. Make up your own mind.
G, I knew the moment someone mentioned that Michael fucking Moore had appeared, you would wash your hands of this. Trust me, there's a major dialogue on Twitter between the protestors about this. Most all of them don't want celebrity or Moore's involvement. They're aware that the celebrities are only interested in dropping by in their limo, taking some press shots, and then going back to their mansions. So, don't focus on that fat fuck. That's exactly what Big Business wants...to discredit any movement like this.
And, I have to add: I find it really interesting that because no one (except MSNBC) is touching this couple-thousand-plus protest, you automatically assume it must be because it's Lefty-bias, and therefore dismissed as such? Can you really stretch and spin that any further? Come on! The fact that no one is nationally covering this (and please don't say "oh it's a local movement", that's retarded) absolutely PROVES Big Business Media Bias. Why would Murdoch support the protestors that are against him?
I don't think you're being overtly obstinate, yet. And we agree that Police Brutality is wrong, especially in this instance when these American citizens have done nothing wrong. But, the movement itself is 100% American. I would be surprised at anyone who didn't support them. There's no factual or logical basis to fight against what's designed to benefit you, the common man.
Unless you're a corporate billionaire taking advantage of all the political loopholes politicians have created for you over the years, and are simply stealing money from the little man. Then, you are the problem...
...These people are peacefully protesting, as is their American right...
from what we can see.
From what EVERYONE can see, Phil. MSNBC isn't the only camera there. ALL the videos on YouTube show the events from multiple angles. So, if anyone wanted to see if the protestors "deserved" being corralled and maced like animals for simply standing on a sidewalk, there is a full, unedited, unbiased opportunity to do so. It's all there, free to anyone that wants to look.
So, no, I disagree. We can see everything. No bottles being thrown. No one getting violent. No fights. Nothing, except NYPD thuggery attacking those who dare question their Wall Street masters. Oh, and there is one video you should definitely look up. It's Wall Street bankers, sitting on their marble balconies above the protests, drinking champagne as a "fuck you" to the protestors. Yeah, that's real nice. Very American. Very fair.
I think this is what it looked like right before the French Revolution....
Agreed! Exactly my point. This stretches across the aisles. Even if Wonder Boy himself came into this thread and declared he supported their cause, then in this thread, we would be as brothers. Partisanship is fun when you don't actually have real world problems to deal with. So, let's all agree that this is what America needs. A peaceful protest against the corporate crooks getting rich off the benefits they receive from the government, off the backs of the lower class.
Yeah, I remember that one.
