More NYPD brutality...same as ever, thugs of the Corporate Establishment attacking unarmed American citizens for no apparent reason other than they can...
At the start of the clip, the brave, heroic police officer gallantly apprehended the dirty, loathsome criminal who was posing a threat to the our benevolent Wall Street CEOs who employ millions upon millions of Americans.
[hijack]I have to question the reasoning behind you posting this clip, Pro. Are you having a bad day? What happened to the Pro who was a mellow dude? Where was your outrage when Bill Clinton ordered air strikes on Iraq in 1998?[/hijack]
since I do enjoy a little devil's advocate now and again...
IMO, I've got nothing but love for the guy. While not debt free, I made it through undergrad with very little debt and most of my tuition paid for. Further, I worked my way through much of the rest of it and drove cars that were no younger than fifteen years old. I survived. I had fun. I fucked chicks. And, graduated with over a 3.5. Good times.
My personal downfall was grad school. Had scholarships/stipends. State cut budget. School cut stipends. Suddenly, only half of my tuition was paid and, in order to get that, I had to take on an assistantship that didn't pay the rent to keep my stipend. Further, my deal prevented me from holding another job. Had to take loans. Got out of grad school in spring of '08. Economy melted down. Can't find a job to pay the loans and survive. Shit happens. All for paying them back. Can't right now. And, government isn't doing much to help me out. Why should I have to struggle because of deadbeats that can't pay a mortgage, stupid banks that gave deadbeats said mortgage, and corrupt politicians that let and/or demanded that stupid banks give loans to said deadbeats?
Just an off tangent question, does having a credit card really matter that much to americans?
I remember a few months ago, when I joined a forum frequented by gaming journalists, and there was a discussion about buying games from brick and mortar shops instead of online stores, and I basically shared that I only buy from brick and mortar stores because I don't own a credit card (I had a non-gold visa once, but I never used it much and it just expired on me. Never bothered to renew).
One of the regulars from said forum went off on me and basically called me an arrogant hippie, and said he's so tired of elitists who think they're so much better than the system. I never bothered to respond since it would be too much effort to explain that I came from a third world country, where only the minority can afford maintaining those plastic cards, and the fact that how can I be elitist when the reason I had no card is because I can't afford it (give me a credit card that I don't have to pay for and I'll gladly charge the fuck out of it).
Also, it got me curious as to the American Culture, whether having a credit card is a necessity (I know all about building a good credit rating, but I live in a country where it is possible to go through life in the middle class without ever applying for a loan).
The American financial system...a.k.a. Corporate America....thus, the American Government, in turn, requires the ability to track your purchases to better market towards you. Thus, if you don't have some type of "credit" in The System, you are seen as some kind of "outcast". Corporate America has pushed the notion that without money, profit, credit...all the tools they use to benefit from your personal income...you are un-American, a "hippy", and to be considered of a "lower class". Why do you think they call countries like yours "Third World Countries". Who determines what the "First World" is? Oh that's right, Corporate America.
Hey look, one person says that he's okay. Congrats! Why is he hiding his face? And, is this one person's opinion (because we can't verify this is anything but what some random person wrote on a piece of paper) relevant to the conversation of the 99%-OWS? Hmmm...feels a little, shall we say, irrelevant?
Let's see thousands of these pieces of paper, all with actual faces to their picture. Then, I might consider their opinion...
I know. It's like my best friend who is a neurosurgeon. He was decrying complaints like this....until I asked him who paid for his tuition, apartment, and living expenses while in Med School? Oh that's right....his rich daddy.
Hell, the dickhead hiding his face did manage to scrape up enough to cover the other 10% of his tuition.
That gives him the right to sermonize people who don't get handouts, or have to pay medical bills for themselves or loved ones, or have a car break down, or have other unexpected events happen to them.
It worked for him, so it naturally it will work for everyone else.
People who benefit from the American Corporate Dictatorship have no investment in the global Occupy Movement. They want the system to continue the way it is, because they continue to reap the wealth.
Then, there's a second type of people who don't support it because they smell the barest hint of opposing political beliefs or clashing religious ideologies. Doesn't matter if they're working their ass off to pay exorbitant tax rates so the 1% of wealthy Americans can enjoy their beach homes. They are dedicated to their political doctrine, facts and the world be damned.
Then, the third type that oppose this are those that WANT to be The System. They strive to become the wealthy oppressor that struggles to keep them down. They're the ones I cannot psychoanalyze. I don't understand the start of their intentions or logic. It all stems from a love of materialism and a doctrine of the strong oppressing the weak (very much the America post-WWII).
A fourth group would be those too weak to stand up for themselves, or their position in life. They accept the shit life shovels on them, and then resent those that have the strength, will, and tenacity to "dare" rock the boat.
Finally, a fifth group would be those that, unfortunately, are full-fledged victims of Federal indoctrination. They are the uneducated, the angry, and the disenfranchised. They are the ones that have been shit on by life sooo much, they've snapped and just attack anything and everything that ripples the comfort zone of personal security delusion.
The more Occupy builds its movement, the more painful it becomes for anyone who falls into one of these groups. It threatens their lifestyle and selfish goals.
So remember, as Gandhi said: "First, they ignore you. Then, they mock you. Then, they fight you. Then, you win."
A fourth group would be those too weak to stand up for themselves, or their position in life. They accept the shit life shovels on them, and then resent those that have the strength, will, and tenacity to "dare" rock the boat.
Let's call them the RKMB extreme right-wingers for convenience sake.
Originally Posted By: Rob "Kamhausen" Goldman-Sachs!
People who benefit from the American Corporate Dictatorship have no investment in the global Occupy Movement. They want the system to continue the way it is, because they continue to reap the wealth.
Originally Posted By: Wonder Boy!
Then, there's a second type of people who don't support it because they smell the barest hint of opposing political beliefs or clashing religious ideologies. Doesn't matter if they're working their ass off to pay exorbitant tax rates so the 1% of wealthy Americans can enjoy their beach homes. They are dedicated to their political doctrine, facts and the world be damned.
Originally Posted By: G-Man
Then, the third type that oppose this are those that WANT to be The System. They strive to become the wealthy oppressor that struggles to keep them down. They're the ones I cannot psychoanalyze. I don't understand the start of their intentions or logic. It all stems from a love of materialism and a doctrine of the strong oppressing the weak (very much the America post-WWII).
Originally Posted By: Rex
A fourth group would be those too weak to stand up for themselves, or their position in life. They accept the shit life shovels on them, and then resent those that have the strength, will, and tenacity to "dare" rock the boat.
Originally Posted By: Pariah
Finally, a fifth group would be those that, unfortunately, are full-fledged victims of Federal indoctrination. They are the uneducated, the angry, and the disenfranchised. They are the ones that have been shit on by life sooo much, they've snapped and just attack anything and everything that ripples the comfort zone of personal security delusion.
Originally Posted By: Prometheus
So remember, as Gandhi said: "First, they ignore you. Then, they mock you. Then, they fight you. Then, you win."
actually no. like I said, just playing devil's advocate since this exchange seems to be getting very one-sided. I'm more in iggy's boat. I actually didn't have any undergrad loans, but that's only because I got a 33 on my ACT and busted my ass to keep a 3.7 the whole time. grad school kinda kicked my ass, financially speaking, but $40k is still pretty manageable and depending on whether or not I'm willing to teach in a public institution, I'll have at least some of that debt waived. and if I have a strong enough opinion on something that I'm willing to post it on the internet, I'll gladly allow myself to be identified with it. it's just very surprising that this guy has to be some kinda fluke or fake or plant, but all the other pieces of paper are gospel. out of curiosity: what percentage of "the 99%" in the streets are freshman gender-studies majors, and what percentage dropped out halfway through their second year of art history?
Last edited by Captain Sammitch; 2011-10-1510:03 PM.
I actually like this article. it's not at all lacking in sympathy for the OWS protesters, just trying to encourage the more sensible ones to adopt some measure of quality control:
These are the shocking scenes that have led some people to accuse the Occupy Wall Street protesters living rough in New York's financial district of creating unsanitary and filthy conditions.
Exclusive pictures obtained by Mail Online show one demonstrator relieving himself on a police car. Elsewhere we found piles of stinking refuse clogging Zuccotti Park, despite the best efforts of many of the protesters to keep the area clean. The shocking images demonstrate the extent to which conditions have deteriorated as demonstrations in downtown Manhattan enter their fourth week. Further pictures seen by Mail Online have been censored, as we deemed them too graphic to show.
According to eye witnesses, when people ran to tell nearby police about the man defecating on the squad car they were ignored. Standing downwind of the piles of rubbish, bankers walking past the man did a double take before hurrying away.
Brookfield Office Properties, which owns Zuccotti Park, the site of the New York demonstration, have already railed against protesters, who they claim are creating sanitation problems. 'Sanitation is a growing concern,' Brookfield said in a statement.
INSIDE MAN: IS PRESIDENT OBAMA SUPPORTING THE PROTESTERS? Despite claiming to represent 'the 99 per cent', not all Americans are behind the Wall Street protests. But according to the Financial Times, the President himself is unofficially backing their cause. The paper wrote: 'While not endorsing the protests, Barack Obama and Joe Biden have expressed understanding of the movement that has spread rapidly across the country.
'Mr Obama said people were angry because Wall Street had not been 'following the rules'. 'His vice-president even compared the movement on Thursday to the Tea Party, the conservative movement which has upended national politics in the past two years.' 'Normally the park is cleaned and inspected every week night. . . because the protesters refuse to cooperate. . .the park has not been cleaned since Friday, September 16th and as a result, sanitary conditions have reached unacceptable levels,' CBS News reported.
Although many of the protesters are understood to be making strenuous efforts to clean up after themselves, after three weeks of occupation, the strain of hundreds of people living on the street has begun to take its toll.
The authorities today warned of a dramatic crackdown on Wall Street demonstrators, as the protests spread across America.
NYPD Commissioner Ray Kelly has promised that if protesters targeted the police, authorities will respond with 'force.' Kelly blamed activists for starting the skirmishes with police that led to 28 arrests yesterday.
Most were arrested for disorderly behaviour, CBS News reported.
'They’re going to be met with force when they do that — this is just common sense,' Kelly said. 'These people wanted to have confrontation with the police for whatever reason. Somehow, I guess it works to their purposes.'
Mayor Bloomberg added his voice to the furor, accusing the Wall Street demonstrators of putting the city's economy at risk, the New York Post reported.
New York mayor Michael Bloomberg attacked protesters today, saying the demonstrations were harming the city. He said: 'What they're trying to do is take the jobs away from people working in this city.
'They're trying to take away the tax base we have because none of this is good for tourism.'
'If the jobs they are trying to get rid of in this city -- the people that work in finance, which is a big part of our economy-- we're not going to have any money to pay our municipal employees or clean the blocks or anything else.'
Protests against corporate greed and economic inequality spread across America on Thursday. The Occupy Wall Street movement, that began in New York last month with a few people, has now swelled to protests in more than a dozen cities. They included Tampa, Florida; Trenton and Jersey City, New Jersey, Philadelphia, and Norfolk, Virginia in the East; to Chicago and St. Louis in the Midwest; Houston, San Antonio and Austin in Texas; Nashville, Tennessee; and Portland, Oregon, Seattle and Los Angeles in the West.
Protesters have raged against corporate greed and influence over American life, the gap between rich and poor, and hapless, corrupt politicians. 'I'm fed up with the government, I'm fed up with the bailouts. If I fail at my job, I don't get a bonus -- I get fired,' said Tim Lucas, 49, vice president of a software company, who was protesting in Austin. Hundreds of people have been arrested in New York since the protests began last month. On Wednesday, the biggest crowd so far of about 5,000 people marched on New York's financial district, and police used pepper spray on some protesters. But protests for the most part have been non-violent.
Organisers predict momentum will continue to build, as labour movements join the growing numbers.
'This is the beginning,' said John Preston in Philadelphia, business manager for Teamsters Local 929. 'Teamsters will support the movement city to city.'
In Philadelphia, up to 1,000 protesters chanted and waved placards reading: 'I did not think 'By the People, For the People' meant 1 percent,' a reference to their argument the country's top few have too much wealth and political power. In Los Angeles, more than 100 protesters crowded outside a Bank of America branch downtown, while a smaller group dressed in business attire slipped inside and pitched a tent. Eleven were arrested when they refused to remove the tent. In Washington, protesters carried signs that read: 'Human Needs, Not Corporate Greed' and 'Stop the War on Workers.'
Foulness and chaos is not a political cause.
I could go all Sammitch here and equivocate saying "Hey, I can sympathize with some of these people too." I finally paid off my own student loan in Jan 2005 (much less quickly than I expected). And one of the photos here actually shows a guy with a sign acknowledging that "Obama dines with Wallstreet", apparently knowing that Obama's largest campaign contributors were the Wall Street investment firms. That's certainly a sentiment I agree with.
But among the crowd, you can see signs that are contradictory and polar opposite in message, standing right next to each other. Interpreting the meaning of these protests is something of a Rorschach test, that each pulls in the direction of their own agenda. While all-encompassing in a multitude of contradictory political directions, the thrust is marxist-socialist, wealth redistribution, social justice, fundamental transformation, anti-capitalist, and often blatantly America hating (see the guy with the desecrated flag).
And the usual lefties who are part of the problem such as Michael Moore, Susan Sarandon, Charles Rangel, Keith Olbermann, etc., are all there to pour their own special brand of kerosine on the fire.
Occupy Wall Streeter defecates on a police car October 8, 2011 by Don Surber
Let us compare how the Associated Press is covering the Occupy Wall Street protests to the way the London Daily Mail does. One news organization covers it as a spontaneous event filled by people upset with the nation’s capitalists.
Meanwhile, the London Daily Mail reported: “Stinking up Wall Street: Protesters accused of living in filth as shocking pictures show one demonstrator defecating on a POLICE CAR.”
The newspaper reported:
According to eyewitnesses, when people ran to tell nearby police about the man defecating on the squad car they were ignored.
Standing downwind of the piles of rubbish, bankers walking past the man did a double take before hurrying away.
Brookfield Office Properties, which owns Zuccotti Park, the site of the New York demonstration, have already railed against protesters, who they claim are creating sanitation problems.
‘Sanitation is a growing concern,’ Brookfield said in a statement.
Well, at least he gave a crap.
As one goes through the photographs transmitted by the Associated Press, you can almost feel the love — people singing “I Want To Teach The World To Sing.”
The Associated Press made it seem like a rock festival.
The London Daily Mail showed that was garbage.
It will be interesting to see how clean the unions leave the parks when this is over.
A lot of these people look and dress like the mutants who wander across the planet in some apocalyptic future movie.
In this one he takes on two ostensibly intellectual voices of the Left who support the protests, who offer convoluted defenses of what the Wall Streeters advocate. I think he certainly gave them a more than "fair and balanced" shot at laying out a valid argument. And I agree with him, that the arguments he got were "gobbledygook". Even so, Stossel acknowledges a level of seriousness among most of the protestors staking out Wall Street, the level of commitment for them to stay there for days and weeks on end.
I found this one the more interesting, particularly that even in this deep recession, unemployment for college graduates is at 4.3%, as compared to the 9.1% unemployment of U.S. workers as a whole. Also valid: the point about free education as a demand, if met will just result in more unemployable theatre majors. Whereas if people pay for their own education, they will be more careful to invest in more marketable skills.
This one actually makes your argument for you better than anything posted here.
Peter Schiff talks about the millions of mortgages that are underwater, that U.S. homeowners have very little incentive to continue paying, that will only expand forclosures an additional 1.2 million over the next year.
And the excesses of J P Morgan bank, who used federal taxpayers' bailout money to make further high-risk investments for their own benefit, while denying loans to the taxpayers who bailed them out. Schiff has made the same point in his book and many interviews, that the high-risk investments stem from the knowledge that if it pays off, they will reap huge profits. But if the risky investment goes bad, they will not be held responsible and the nanny-state Federal Reserve system will take the loss. This is not free-market capitalism, this is state-run capitalism that interferes with the accountability that would normally exist in free-market capitalism. The illusion of regulation, that just translates to enabling greed, with taxpayers picking up the tab if it goes the other way.
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Shit happens. All for paying them back. Can't right now. And, government isn't doing much to help me out. Why should I have to struggle because of deadbeats that can't pay a mortgage, stupid banks that gave deadbeats said mortgage, and corrupt politicians that let and/or demanded that stupid banks give loans to said deadbeats?
