Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 18 of 47 1 2 16 17 18 19 20 46 47
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 33,385
Likes: 3
Regenerated
15000+ posts
Regenerated
15000+ posts
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 33,385
Likes: 3
Why doesn't he correct the spelling mistake in his profile title?

Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 33,385
Likes: 3
Regenerated
15000+ posts
Regenerated
15000+ posts
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 33,385
Likes: 3
 Originally Posted By: Prometheus
Wonder Boy content User mighty weilder of the Penis of Truth
7500+ posts 4 minutes 19 seconds ago Making a new reply
Forum: Politics and Current Events
Thread: Re: Occupy Wall Street


Stumped, huh?

Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 25,469
Likes: 37
brutally Kamphausened
15000+ posts
brutally Kamphausened
15000+ posts
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 25,469
Likes: 37
 Originally Posted By: Wonder Boy
 Originally Posted By: Prometheus
 Originally Posted By: Prometheus
 Originally Posted By: Prometheus
 Originally Posted By: Wonder Boy
Fact, not deflection.
You deflected that Obama was protected by media propaganda, and McCain was slandered by the same media. Obama narrowly won, and I believe that was because of unprecedented partisanship by the liberal media.


That's false. Prove it.

 Quote:
You also have been trolling and cheerleading Pro's infantile antics.


\:lol\:

 Quote:
 Originally Posted By: Iggy
Seriously, show me one post where I absolve Obama of being a corporatist wanker. I'll wait.


You seem to be arguing for Obama's re-election, with a dismissive rejection of Romney. But you mentioned Republicans of interest for you as Ron Paul, Gingrich, and Roemer.
But my impression is you'll ultimately pull the lever for Obama and label the Republican candidate as a corporate whore. (a la Prometheus)


In other words, you can't prove it, because it's not true. You just wish it were, so it might give you some sympathy over your butthurt attitude. Once again, reality proving you wrong, David. At what age did you set up your highly compacted cognitive dissidence?

 Originally Posted By: WB
The reality is, Obama


 Originally Posted By: WB
That's another DNC talking point, not reality.


\:lol\: Good old Dave. Deciding what is and isn't "reality". \:lol\:

 Originally Posted By: WB
Romney, unlike Obama, is not in favor of a strong socialist central government.


Prove Obama is. Oh, you can't.

 Quote:
Unlike Obama, does not favor crony capitalism that would use corporations to advance an ideological socialist experiment.


Prove it. Oh, you can't.

 Originally Posted By: WB
(as I sourced from Tim Carney's book OBAMANOMICS


 Quote:
"That's another RNC talking point, not reality."




 Originally Posted By: WB
 Originally Posted By: Iggy
I repeat, he supported and still supports the abandonment of free market principles to "save" the free market (see, bailouts).

http://articles.latimes.com/2011/oct/11/news/la-pn-romney-bailouts-20111011


Yeah, but...........


\:lol\: Spin Right.

 Originally Posted By: WB
Despite your condescending dismissiveness, Obama is unprecedented in his damage to the country, and three years later, it still isn't even being reported!


LMAO!!! BECAUSE IT'S NOT TRUE YOU FUCKING MORON! \:lol\: \:lol\: \:lol\: \:lol\: \:lol\:

Jesus fucking Christ, David. If you think Obama's shitty, do-nothing Presidency has done "unprecedented damage" to this country, you must have had your entire hands inside your ears the eight-years Bush and the Extremist Right pissed on the Constitution and instituted a Corporate Police State, dictated by the Military-Industrial Complex.

You perpetually amaze me at the level of ignorance and cowardice you're willing to sink to defend criminal billionaire strangers. That's just fucking crazy on your part, dude. Holy shit.

 Quote:
Republicans are just as bad? Prove it.




Done.

 Quote:
Again: we have a choice in Nov 2012, most likely between Obama and Romney.


It's called freedom of choice, David. Simply vote for Ron Paul, or do a Glenn Beck write-in vote. OF COURSE there's a choice, man. This is America. Stand up and make your choice based on what YOU want, not what your party allegiance wants. Seriously.

 Quote:
despite that the co-opted Occupy Wall Street movement is funded by Soros, SEIU, UAW, MoveOn and so forth.


Fiction. Prove it or stop lying.

 Quote:
Other than your support for a bunch of unwashed neo-hippie rabble in the streets who talk about --in no uncertain terms-- intimidating if not violently rioting to take stuff from people who worked for what they have.


\:lol\: \:lol\: \:lol\: You are a fucking pawn of the Corporate Government. Congrats on literally regurgitating exactly what the Extremist Right has told you to say and believe. It's like watching a textbook deconstruction of the quintessential Bernays Model "media puppet", simply salivating whenever the bell is rung...




 Originally Posted By: Prometheus








 Originally Posted By: WB


...Pro flinging his poo across every forum...



  • from Do Racists have lower IQ's...

    Liberals who bemoan discrimination, intolerance, restraint of Constitutional freedoms, and promotion of hatred toward various abberant minorities, have absolutely no problem with discriminating against, being intolerant of, restricting Constitutional freedoms of, and directing hate-filled scapegoat rhetoric against conservatives.

    EXACTLY what they accuse Republicans/conservatives of doing, is EXACTLY what liberals/Democrats do themselves, to those who oppose their beliefs.
iggy #1163294 2011-10-21 11:00 PM
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 25,469
Likes: 37
brutally Kamphausened
15000+ posts
brutally Kamphausened
15000+ posts
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 25,469
Likes: 37
 Originally Posted By: iggy
Those that want to engage in violence at this point are complete idiots. We are no where near the point of corporatism, fascism, tyranny, or whatever you want to call it where armed resistance is required. Don’t get me wrong, I’d be more than happy to water The Tree of Liberty if needed to. I just think that most of our current problems could be remedied without it at this point.

I don’t think we are really too far off on this. It is just a matter of how we see it. You see it as something we are heading towards. I see it as something that is already lurking beneath the s


I see a few people among the Occupy Wall Street protestors who make legitimate points about the corruptness of the system.

Again: I think Tim Carney in his book OBAMANOMICS makes the best and most comprehensive case. Against the revolving door between government and lobbyists, and how they make money working on both sides of the government/private-sector fence.

The OWS protestors are mono-focused on corporations, and not on the corrupt government officials they are donating to. My concern is that OWS protestors are inadvertantly flying cover for government corruption by giving a free pass to the politicians who take the money, and making a disproportionate scapegoat of Wall Street investment firms.

Why do they give disproportionate anger to Wall Street wealthy, while giving a free pass to groups like G.E., Pfizer, and the large HMO's. And the benefit from political donations to Chris Dodd, John Kerry, Hillary Clinton, Barney Frank and Barack Obama, all of whom took cash from Fannie/Freddie and enabled the financial collapse, obstructing any obstacle to easy mortgage loans, calling Fannie/Freddie a "sound investment" right up to the day of its collapse?
Why aren't they protesting in front of these people's homes and offices?
Why aren't they striking in front of G.E. and Pfizer, who have benefitted in the tens of millions from Obama's crony capitalism?
Why is it only from conservative news sources, and not from the Wall Street protestors, that you hear it exposed that Wall Street firms were the largest contributer to getting Obama elected in 2008?

Instead they are shouting slogans in angry mobs in front of Rupert Murdoch's New York home. That seems to me to be a different and more partisan agenda than striking against corrupt abuses of the financial system.




I assume the "tree of Liberty" you refer to is Jefferson's statement that it periodically needs to be watered with the blood of patriots.

I agree that the system is not broken enough that anyone should be calling for violent revolution. That's why I support the Tea Party more, because they have unquestionably made their agenda one that must be pursued within the rule of law. They are not calling for anyone to be killed, or carrying movie-prop heads in implied French Revolution guillotine fate for "the rich".

The Tea Party it could be argued is too focused on government corruption, and not giving enough mention to the corporate lobbyist part of the equation.
The Occupy Wall Street protestors give more emphasis to corporate lobbyist influence and profit, and not giving enough (if any) mention of the necessary government part of the equation to enable corporate profits. Rham Emmanuel, Tim Geithner, Chris Dodd, and Barack Obama himself are prime examples of the pay-to-play system, where donations get corporations the state-selected contracts, corporate welfare and monopolies from our political leaders, both Democrat and Republican. Ironic that Obama, who campaigned as a reformer, has fed and more vastly expanded this system, more so than any other politician.

Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 33,385
Likes: 3
Regenerated
15000+ posts
Regenerated
15000+ posts
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 33,385
Likes: 3
 Originally Posted By: Wonder Boy
 Originally Posted By: Wonder Boy
 Originally Posted By: Prometheus
 Originally Posted By: Prometheus
 Originally Posted By: Prometheus
[quote=Wonder Boy]Fact, not deflection.
You deflected that Obama was protected by media propaganda, and McCain was slandered by the same media. Obama narrowly won, and I believe that was because of unprecedented partisanship by the liberal media.


That's false. Prove it.

 Quote:
You also have been trolling and cheerleading Pro's infantile antics.


\:lol\:

 Quote:
 Originally Posted By: Iggy
Seriously, show me one post where I absolve Obama of being a corporatist wanker. I'll wait.


You seem to be arguing for Obama's re-election, with a dismissive rejection of Romney. But you mentioned Republicans of interest for you as Ron Paul, Gingrich, and Roemer.
But my impression is you'll ultimately pull the lever for Obama and label the Republican candidate as a corporate whore. (a la Prometheus)


In other words, you can't prove it, because it's not true. You just wish it were, so it might give you some sympathy over your butthurt attitude. Once again, reality proving you wrong, David. At what age did you set up your highly compacted cognitive dissidence?

 Originally Posted By: WB
The reality is, Obama


 Originally Posted By: WB
That's another DNC talking point, not reality.


\:lol\: Good old Dave. Deciding what is and isn't "reality". \:lol\:

 Originally Posted By: WB
Romney, unlike Obama, is not in favor of a strong socialist central government.


Prove Obama is. Oh, you can't.

 Quote:
Unlike Obama, does not favor crony capitalism that would use corporations to advance an ideological socialist experiment.


Prove it. Oh, you can't.

 Originally Posted By: WB
(as I sourced from Tim Carney's book OBAMANOMICS


 Quote:
"That's another RNC talking point, not reality."




 Originally Posted By: WB
[quote=Iggy]I repeat, he supported and still supports the abandonment of free market principles to "save" the free market (see, bailouts).

http://articles.latimes.com/2011/oct/11/news/la-pn-romney-bailouts-20111011


Yeah, but...........


\:lol\: Spin Right.

 Originally Posted By: WB
Despite your condescending dismissiveness, Obama is unprecedented in his damage to the country, and three years later, it still isn't even being reported!


LMAO!!! BECAUSE IT'S NOT TRUE YOU FUCKING MORON! \:lol\: \:lol\: \:lol\: \:lol\: \:lol\:

Jesus fucking Christ, David. If you think Obama's shitty, do-nothing Presidency has done "unprecedented damage" to this country, you must have had your entire hands inside your ears the eight-years Bush and the Extremist Right pissed on the Constitution and instituted a Corporate Police State, dictated by the Military-Industrial Complex.

You perpetually amaze me at the level of ignorance and cowardice you're willing to sink to defend criminal billionaire strangers. That's just fucking crazy on your part, dude. Holy shit.

 Quote:
Republicans are just as bad? Prove it.




Done.

 Quote:
Again: we have a choice in Nov 2012, most likely between Obama and Romney.


It's called freedom of choice, David. Simply vote for Ron Paul, or do a Glenn Beck write-in vote. OF COURSE there's a choice, man. This is America. Stand up and make your choice based on what YOU want, not what your party allegiance wants. Seriously.

 Quote:
despite that the co-opted Occupy Wall Street movement is funded by Soros, SEIU, UAW, MoveOn and so forth.


Fiction. Prove it or stop lying.

 Quote:
Other than your support for a bunch of unwashed neo-hippie rabble in the streets who talk about --in no uncertain terms-- intimidating if not violently rioting to take stuff from people who worked for what they have.


\:lol\: \:lol\: \:lol\: You are a fucking pawn of the Corporate Government. Congrats on literally regurgitating exactly what the Extremist Right has told you to say and believe. It's like watching a textbook deconstruction of the quintessential Bernays Model "media puppet", simply salivating whenever the bell is rung...



 Originally Posted By: Wonder Boy
I got nothing! I can't beat him!!


\:lol\: "Roger"

Joined: May 2008
Posts: 7,082
Likes: 30
Society's Discontent
6000+ posts
Society's Discontent
6000+ posts
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 7,082
Likes: 30
Saw my reply to Wondy got mangled. Here it is in its entirety...

Those that want to engage in violence at this point are complete idiots. We are no where near the point of corporatism, fascism, tyranny, or whatever you want to call it where armed resistance is required. Don’t get me wrong, I’d be more than happy to water The Tree of Liberty if needed to. I just think that most of our current problems could be remedied without it at this point.


I don’t think we are really too far off on this. It is just a matter of how we see it. You see it as something we are heading towards. I see it as something that is already lurking beneath the surface waiting to make itself fully known.

Further, I agree that, as a whole, we are much better off than in most countries. It’s like Rand Paul pointing out that the poor family was watching cable on a nice tv in one of the adds ran against him.

Also, honestly, I don’t really expect all of the pay-for-play culture and corruption to be weeded out. I’m fine with being called cynical about this since I’m totally not looking for some bright-eyed idealist solution to the problem but I’m not a believer in some pre-corruption utopia. I expect there to be some corruption. There is in any system. Always has been and always will be. What really goads me is that it has become so blatant, prevalent, and overt.


That is my biggest worry. Though I guess this is to be expected due to my support, I agree with Paul in saying that we are already bankrupt. We’ve just been trying to control the collapse. The problem is that they are also going bankrupt in regard to tricks to keep the dollar afloat. On top of that, the most disturbing thing I’ve heard recently—partly influenced by the debt relief agenda of OWC—is a Nixon styled “controlled inflation.” It won’t work. Though I think it can be argued that a lot of the economic boom in the eighties can be contributed to it, it was bad enough when they did it in the seventies. They had a few things that helped them weather the storm that we don’t: industrial/manufacturing backbone, less competition, more savings, etc… Without these tools, I think any move towards floating us out of debt is just going to lead to a country of millionaires like in Zimbabwe.


And, I can agree with that somewhat. It pained me to see that so many of those in the crowd were so illiterate when it comes to government and economics. I’m glad they can get that something is wrong. But, if they don’t know what the SEC is or its role in the economy blowing up, then I can’t help but feel they should either get a clue or get the fuck lost. I just trend more towards trying to clue them in. Still, it doesn’t mean that they are completely stupid when it comes to politics. I think there are some buzzwords that they would respond to rather quickly—though, IMO, wrongly. One of those is Citizens United. While I think I may have been critical of this decision in the past, I’ve refined my opinion somewhat to be that it hasn’t been clearly counter-balanced in a reasonable way. I have no problem with Wall Street throwing all two-plus trillion they are sitting on into 2012 so long as people can see who donated how much to what. The problem is when you get to the SuperPACs that don’t have to disclose any of this information not to mention the excessive and, often backdoor, nature of lobbying efforts. No amount of money Wall Street can throw into an election campaign is anywhere near the power of one well paid guy in a “public servant’s” ear. I guess my point here is that you have to start them out on what they know even if what they know about what they know is wrong. My personal experience with this is that it goes both ways. Some will open their mind and others will just look mind-raped as they call you a fascist. I keep going because I don’t care that ninety-nine out of a hundred may call me a fascist so long as that one “gets it.”

The most sympathetic of any commentator I’ve seen has been Judge Napolitano on Fox Business.

What I’ll say quickly in Paul’s defense is that he is playing the long game. Unfortunately, I don’t think he is able to be as clear on his platform as he can (and has) been. If you have ever heard him speak in a non-election season, then you have probably heard the curt honesty that any real fix isn’t going to be pleasant in the short-term. Still, it would be nothing compared to the pain that we’ll feel if we just continue to use band-aids to patch what requires surgery. You just can’t sell people on the notion that a little pain now is much more preferable than a lot of pain later. So, the message—while strong—has been a little watered down.

Gingrich intrigues me because he hasn’t been as active as he could be. Hence, my belief that he is looking more towards a seat at the table rather than being the guy carving the turkey. Still, compared to all the other candidates, I think he is the only one with real solutions. And, maybe, he is just sitting back and letting the others implode early while gaining traction slowly. He’d definitely get my vote. The only other problem would be Dems trying to paint him as the Grinch or Scrooge…again.

I understand wanting to beat Obama. I’m just a little concerned that it will just lead to another lesser of two evils election. Again, I try not to be too idealistic. But, I still think we can find a candidate who is less-devilish enough to really buck the “politics as usual” standard. That’s all I’m asking for.


Again, I have no doubt that there are a lot of professional protesters, plants, co-opters hangers-on and idiots in the crowd. And, in that regard, I do tilt in favor of the Tea Party in trying more to point out and run out those types. The OWC crowd has definitely made some mistakes like accepting open endorsement from Unions. I’m not saying that they should’ve not allowed union members to join them just that they should’ve been more cautious in embracing endorsements that clearly signaled co-option and partisanship. They weren’t. Still, there is a strong voice in the inner workings of the movement that are trying to rebuff such efforts. I stand by them. I’m not thoroughly convinced of our/their success but, I still fight the fight.

Further, I think some of the items on their Occulists are fairly silly. Don’t get me wrong. I’d love for the government to eat twenty-years of student loan debt. It would free up a lot of money that could be put into economy and savings. On the flip side, I think free college education is stupid and would only do more to hurt the economy. The colleges are teetering on the edge of, if not already fallen into, the trap of being degree mills. It hurts the value of those who worked hard to get their degree, regardless of study, when you over fill the pool with those that partied hard and only got by because of the grading curve (with some exception given to the plethora of blank-studies programs that serve no useful purpose other than to indoctrinate). While I think we need more engineers, scientists, and such; I don’t think we should discount liberal arts as a whole because of the agenda driven nature of many of the programs it offers (once again, see blank-studies programs). There is still value in “classical liberal” education. It just needs to be resuscitated and dug out of the current morass it is buried in.

I know I didn’t address everything. But, time is short and I have to get ready to see my cousin rock it out bluegrass style. Anything I missed, let me know and I’ll follow up after the concert.

Joined: May 2008
Posts: 7,082
Likes: 30
Society's Discontent
6000+ posts
Society's Discontent
6000+ posts
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 7,082
Likes: 30
 Originally Posted By: Wonder Boy
I assume the "tree of Liberty" you refer to is Jefferson's statement that it periodically needs to be watered with the blood of patriots.


And, tyrants!

 Quote:
The Tea Party it could be argued is too focused on government corruption, and not giving enough mention to the corporate lobbyist part of the equation.
The Occupy Wall Street protestors give more emphasis to corporate lobbyist influence and profit, and not giving enough (if any) mention of the necessary government part of the equation to enable corporate profits.




I agree with this 110%!

Above is my whole original post. It got cut off cause my little brother is a bandwidth hog on the X-Box. I had to cut what I was responding to out of it but, I think you should be able to figure it out.

iggy #1163364 2011-10-22 4:01 AM
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 34,398
Likes: 38
"Hey this is PCG342's bro..."
15000+ posts
"Hey this is PCG342's bro..."
15000+ posts
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 34,398
Likes: 38
http://www.theatlantic.com/business/arch...ors_picks=true#

 Quote:
50% of All Workers Made Less than $26,000 in 2010
By Derek Thompson
Oct 20 2011, 10:55 AM ET 196

Today we get our first look at American wages in 2010 based on payroll taxes reported to the Social Security Administration. David Cay Johnston picks out the most important takeaways, including:

1) Half of all workers made less than $26,364, the median wage in 2010. That means the typical wage is at its lowest level since 1999, after adjusting for inflation.

2) The number of millionaires increased by about 20 percent.

3) The size of the missing workforce is 10 million. The number of working people fell by 5.2 million since 2007. But that's not the entire job deficit, because, based on population growth estimates, 4.5 million more would have joined the workforce between 2007 and 2011. Add it up, and you get a 10-million-worker gap.

What you see in the graph above is that median pay took a nosedive after 2007, effectively wiping out all gains made in the previous eight years. The macro explanation is that the economy shrunk, and middle class jobs disappeared and were replaced with (or outlasted by) lower-paying positions that companies kept on. But the economy isn't one giant corporation. It's thousands of giant, medium-sized, and small companies in industries that lived through very different recessions. Here's a look at pay on an industry-by-industry level from our friends at PayScale.


The industries with wages growing considerably slower than the rest of the country -- the ones really pulling down the national average -- are construction (huge bubble burst), food service (an unproductive industry that requires little advanced education) and sales and retail (another unproductive industry that requires little advanced education). So one thing that's keeping wages low is the fact that the most important stimulus of the last decade blew up in our face, and another big thing is that lots of workers without college degrees don't have the skills to demand higher wages in more productive professions. I'm as astounded as Johnston about these wage numbers, but I'm less optimistic that is the kind of trend we can reverse in an election.


Update: There are some reasonable questions about how many of these workers are part-time. I don't know the answer to that question. Our official measures of part-time workers are inconsistent, but the Bureau of Labor Statistics' data on workers by hours-per-week is here. What we know: About 24 million people worked less than 29 hours a week in 2010. About 35 million people worked 34 hours a week or less in 2010




"The number of millionaires increased by about 20 percent."

You see, that's the problem. If this country had more millionaires, that would mean more money for everyone else.

-Right Wing SuperFriends


"Are you eating it...or is it eating you?"

[center][Linked Image from i13.photobucket.com] [/center]

[center][Linked Image from i13.photobucket.com][/center]
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 33,385
Likes: 3
Regenerated
15000+ posts
Regenerated
15000+ posts
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 33,385
Likes: 3

Joined: May 2008
Posts: 7,082
Likes: 30
Society's Discontent
6000+ posts
Society's Discontent
6000+ posts
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 7,082
Likes: 30




<------------WOOT!

Last edited by iggy; 2011-10-22 3:39 PM.
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 15,894
Likes: 52
Fair Play!
15000+ posts
Fair Play!
15000+ posts
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 15,894
Likes: 52
 Originally Posted By: MisterJLA
http://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2011/10/50-of-all-workers-made-less-than-26-000-in-2010/247059/?google_editors_picks=true#

 Quote:
50% of All Workers Made Less than $26,000 in 2010
By Derek Thompson
Oct 20 2011, 10:55 AM ET 196

Today we get our first look at American wages in 2010 based on payroll taxes reported to the Social Security Administration. David Cay Johnston picks out the most important takeaways, including:

1) Half of all workers made less than $26,364, the median wage in 2010. That means the typical wage is at its lowest level since 1999, after adjusting for inflation.

2) The number of millionaires increased by about 20 percent.

3) The size of the missing workforce is 10 million. The number of working people fell by 5.2 million since 2007. But that's not the entire job deficit, because, based on population growth estimates, 4.5 million more would have joined the workforce between 2007 and 2011. Add it up, and you get a 10-million-worker gap.

What you see in the graph above is that median pay took a nosedive after 2007, effectively wiping out all gains made in the previous eight years. The macro explanation is that the economy shrunk, and middle class jobs disappeared and were replaced with (or outlasted by) lower-paying positions that companies kept on. But the economy isn't one giant corporation. It's thousands of giant, medium-sized, and small companies in industries that lived through very different recessions. Here's a look at pay on an industry-by-industry level from our friends at PayScale.


The industries with wages growing considerably slower than the rest of the country -- the ones really pulling down the national average -- are construction (huge bubble burst), food service (an unproductive industry that requires little advanced education) and sales and retail (another unproductive industry that requires little advanced education). So one thing that's keeping wages low is the fact that the most important stimulus of the last decade blew up in our face, and another big thing is that lots of workers without college degrees don't have the skills to demand higher wages in more productive professions. I'm as astounded as Johnston about these wage numbers, but I'm less optimistic that is the kind of trend we can reverse in an election.


Update: There are some reasonable questions about how many of these workers are part-time. I don't know the answer to that question. Our official measures of part-time workers are inconsistent, but the Bureau of Labor Statistics' data on workers by hours-per-week is here. What we know: About 24 million people worked less than 29 hours a week in 2010. About 35 million people worked 34 hours a week or less in 2010




"The number of millionaires increased by about 20 percent."

You see, that's the problem. If this country had more millionaires, that would mean more money for everyone else.

-Right Wing SuperFriends


This surprised me that workers averaged so little. I suppose it shouldn't but I really thought it would be higher. This has got to change.


Fair play!
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 34,398
Likes: 38
"Hey this is PCG342's bro..."
15000+ posts
"Hey this is PCG342's bro..."
15000+ posts
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 34,398
Likes: 38
Heartbreaking story.

It will FUCK your mind up, that's for sure.

I strongly recommend that the SuperFriends do NOT read this. It will spoil your day.


 Quote:
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970204346104576638981631627402.html?mod=googlenews_wsj

Jacqueline Siegel paces the floor of her unfinished 7,200-square-foot ballroom. The former beauty queen, with platinum-blond hair, blue eye shadow and a white minidress, clacks along the plywood construction boards in her high heels trailed by a small entourage of helpers and staff

"This is the grand hall," she says, opening her arms to a space the size of a concert hall and surrounded by balconies. "It will fit 500 people comfortably, probably more. The problem with our place now is that when we have parties with, like, 400 people, it gets too crowded."

The Siegels' dream home, called "Versailles," after its French inspiration, is still a work in progress. Its steel-and-wood frame rises from the tropical suburbs of Orlando, Fla., like a skeleton from the Jurassic age of real estate. Ms. Siegel shows off the future bowling alley, indoor relaxing pools, five kitchens, 23 bathrooms, 13 bedrooms, two elevators, two movie theaters (one for kids and one for adults, each modeled after a French opera theater), 20-car garage and wine cellar built for 20,000 bottles.

At 90,000 square feet, the Siegels' Versailles is believed to be the largest private home in America. (The Vanderbilt family's Biltmore house in North Carolina is bigger at 135,000 square feet, but it's now a hotel and tourist attraction). The Siegels' home is so big that they bought 10 Segways to get around—one for each of their eight children.

After touring the house, Ms. Siegel walks out to the deck, with its Olympic-size pool, future rock grotto, three hot tubs and 80-foot waterfall overlooking Lake Butler. Her eyes well up with tears.

Versailles was supposed to be done by now. The Siegels were supposed to be living their dream life—throwing charity balls and getting spa treatments downstairs after a long flight on their Gulfstream. The home was the culmination of David Siegel's Horatio Alger story, from TV repairman to chief executive and owner of America's largest time-share company, Westgate Resorts, with more than $1 billion in annual revenue and $200 million in profits.

Yet today, Versailles sits half-finished and up for sale. The privately owned Westgate Resorts was battered by the 2008 credit crunch and real-estate crash. It had about $1 billion in debt—much of it co-signed by the Siegels.

The banks that had loans on Versailles gave the Siegels an ultimatum: Either pay off the loans or sell the house. So it's now on the market for $75 million, or $100 million if the buyer wants it finished.

As she stands on her deck in the Florida sun, Ms. Siegel wipes away her tears. "Maybe it will still work out," she says. "It always does, right?"

The Siegels' Versailles may be the nation's most extravagant monument to the debt-fueled, status-crazed real-estate binge of the past decade. Like many Americans, the Siegels borrowed too much, spent too much and bet that values could only go higher. Even in the age of excess, Versailles was excessive.

Their story might seem like the exception among the rich, who, we're told, just keep getting richer. Yet episodes like the Fall of the House of Siegel are becoming increasingly common as the wealthy undergo a sweeping and little-noticed revolution. The American rich, who used to be the most stable slice of the personal economy, are now the most volatile, with escalating booms and busts.

During the past three recessions, the top 1% of earners (those making $380,000 or more in 2008) experienced the largest income shocks in percentage terms of any income group in the U.S., according to research from economists Jonathan A. Parker and Annette Vissing-Jorgensen at Northwestern University. When the economy grows, their incomes grow up to three times faster than the rest of the country's. When the economy falls, their incomes fall two or three times as much.

The super-high earners have the biggest crashes. The number of Americans making $1 million or more fell 40% between 2007 and 2009, to 236,883, while their combined incomes fell by nearly 50%—far greater than the less than 2% drop in total incomes of those making $50,000 or less, according to Internal Revenue Service figures.

Of course, the trauma of giving up a Gulfstream or a yacht can't compare with the millions of Americans who have lost their only job or home. The Siegels will make do in their current 26,000-square-foot mansion.

The incomes of the wealthy can also be "managed" through selling stock, exercising options and shifting around business losses. Yet their income volatility is roughly the same when options are excluded, and their accumulated wealth is also highly unstable.

During the 1990 and 2001 recessions, the richest 5% of Americans (measured by net worth) experienced the largest decline in their wealth, according to research from the Federal Reserve. As of 2009, the richest 20% of Americans showed the largest decline in mean wealth of any other group.

Yet the rise of the manic millionaire marks something new in the U.S. economy and will increasingly be felt by the rest of the country. With the wealthy now at the center of the political debate, from the Occupy Wall Street protesters in New York to the tax battles in Washington, portrayals of millionaires and billionaires are being shaped more by partisan ideologies than economic realities. The story of more volatile wealth may not fit neatly with either party's agenda, but it offers a clearer view of the rich—who they are, how they got there, and how they will drive our own economic futures.

Though often described as a permanent plutocracy, this elite actually moves through a revolving door of riches, with some of today's nouveau riche becoming tomorrow's fallen kings. Only 27% of America's 400 top earners have made the list more than one year since 1994, one study shows.

It wasn't always this way. For decades after World War II, the top-one-percenters were the most steady line on the income and wealth charts. They gained less during good times and lost less during contractions than the rest of America.

Suddenly, in 1982, the wealthiest broke away from the rest of the economy and formed their own virtual country. Their incomes began soaring higher during good times. The top 1% of earners more than doubled their share of national income, to 20% as of 2008. Looking at another measure, the richest 1% increased their share of wealth from just over 20% to more than 33%.

Those surges were often accompanied by mini-crashes, even though the direction over time was always up. A top 1% that had once been models of financial sobriety set off on a wild ride of economic binges.

This marked a new personality type in the history of wealth: the High-Beta Rich.

"High beta" is a term used in financial markets to describe a stock or asset that has exaggerated up and down swings with the market. Tech start-ups and casino stocks have high betas, for example. Yet studies show that today's rich have higher betas than many of the riskiest gambling stocks. Between 1947 and 1982, the beta of the top 1% was a modest 0.72, meaning that their incomes moved relatively in line with the rest of America. Between 1982 and 2007, their beta soared more than three-fold.

What created high-beta wealth? Economists aren't sure. The rise of the high-betas and the rise in inequality started at the same time, suggesting they have a common cause. Mr. Parker and Ms. Vissing-Jorgenssen cite new communication technologies that allow the best workers and products to be scaled over larger markets, thus making them more sensitive to economic changes. Others cite globalization and the rise of "winner-take-all" pay schemes.

Interviews with more than 100 people with net worths (or former net worths) of $10 million or more, and a wave of new studies on the rich, suggest a different cause: the "financialization" of wealth. Simply put, more wealth today is tied to the stock market than to broader economic growth. A larger share of today's rich make their fortunes from stock-based pay, shares in publicly traded companies, selling a business or working in finance.

Because the stock market is up to 20 times more volatile than overall economic growth, the market-based fortunes of the wealthy are now more unsteady. Fast-moving global capital is also creating more asset bubbles, which have become their own self-destructing wealth machines.

Rising debt plays a role. While the rich are often portrayed as thrifty "millionaires next door," the era of low interest rates and easy money has turned them into a leveraged elite. The household debt of the top 1% surged more than three-fold between 1989 and 2007, to $600 billion, and grew faster than their net worth.

Add to that the growing arms race in conspicuous consumption and you get big spenders who are only one crisis away from financial ruin. Edra Blixseth, the former co-owner of the Yellowstone Club in Big Sky, Mont., went from being a paper billionaire to filing for Chapter 7 bankruptcy—liquidation—in three years. She says that she and her husband, Tim, were "living on the financial edge" even as they had two yachts, three jets and a California estate with its own 19-hole golf course and staff of 110 people.

"I felt like we were always trying to project the image of success," she says.

The fallout from the "high betas" is likely to grow. As the wealthy gain a greater share of wealth and income, they account for a growing share of spending, taxes and investments. The top 5% of earners now account for 37% of consumer outlays, according to Moody's Analytics. The top 1% of earners pay 38% of federal income taxes. The richest 1% of Americans own more than half of the country's individually held stocks, according to the Federal Reserve.

As go the high-beta rich, so goes America. Their hyper-cycles will become our own, as the consumer economy, financial markets and tax revenues experience more rapid and extreme spikes and crashes.

The spending of the rich is even wilder than their incomes. The spending volatility of the top 10% of earners is now more than 10 times the spending volatility of the bottom 80%, according to one study.

Since a high percentage of spending by the rich is discretionary—jewelry and vacations rather than toothpaste and milk—it rises and falls with their confidence and the stock market. Luxury is now the most volatile segment of the consumer economy. The average price of a Gulfstream V tumbled from $45 million to about $23 million during the latest recession, while sales volume fell by nearly half. Similar patterns show up with racehorses, yachts and multimillion-dollar vacation homes. The butler shortage of 2007 became the butler glut of 2010.

The Siegels show how the cycle of high-beta wealth plays out in the lives, values and economy of the rich. Before 2008, Mr. Siegel's company, Westgate, was earning hundreds of millions of dollars a year for the family. The Siegels poured $50 million into Versailles, which seemed reasonable at the time. When friends asked David why he wanted to build the largest home in America, he had a simple answer: "Because I can."

"I was cocky and I didn't care what the house would cost because I couldn't spend all the money I was making," Mr. Siegel says.

When Westgate couldn't roll over its debts, he had to bail out the company with hundreds of millions of dollars of his own. He fired half of his workforce of 12,000 people and sold off assets. Mr. Siegel says that today, Westgate is "highly profitable" and demand is strong, but revenues are still half their peak levels due to lack of financing.

The Siegels took their first hard look at their own lifestyle. They fired 14 of their 15 housekeepers and lost their private chef, named "chef Jeff." They pulled their kids out of private school and put them in the local public school.

Ms. Siegel has started a nonprofit called ThriftMart, a mega thrift-store that sells donated clothes—many from her own closet—and other items for $1.

She does miss one luxury—the Gulfstream. After they defaulted on the $8 million jet loan, the banks seized the plane. The Siegels can use it only occasionally, with the banks' permission.

Recently, the family boarded a commercial flight for a vacation, making for some confusion. One of the kids looked around the crowded cabin and asked, "Mom, what are all these strangers doing on our plane?"

—Adapted from "The High-Beta Rich: How the Manic Wealthy Will Take Us to the Next Boom, Bubble, and Bust," to be published Nov. 1 by Crown Business



They had to fly on a plane with other people...strangers. Something has to be done about this shit, ASAP.

The family also had to fire 14 of their housekeepers. The mega-rich in this country need to hoard more money, if not, housekeepers will never have jobs and stuff.


"Are you eating it...or is it eating you?"

[center][Linked Image from i13.photobucket.com] [/center]

[center][Linked Image from i13.photobucket.com][/center]
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 17,801
terrible podcaster
15000+ posts
terrible podcaster
15000+ posts
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 17,801
on this day in 2005, jla looked down to see the shark sailing by beneath his feet and wondered just where it had all gone wrong...


go.

ᴚ ᴀ ᴐ ᴋ ᴊ ᴌ ᴧ
ಠ_ಠ
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 17,801
terrible podcaster
15000+ posts
terrible podcaster
15000+ posts
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 17,801
also,



perhaps if he'd been given this in a timely fashion like he deserved things for our boy paulie might've gone much better.


go.

ᴚ ᴀ ᴐ ᴋ ᴊ ᴌ ᴧ
ಠ_ಠ
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 25,469
Likes: 37
brutally Kamphausened
15000+ posts
brutally Kamphausened
15000+ posts
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 25,469
Likes: 37
 Originally Posted By: Prometheus


Interesting that you hypocritically cut-and-pasted this, Pro.

Since you pathologically contribute daily to the "divide" portion of this graphic, as you partisanly rant endlessly about the evils of Republican-conservatives.


  • from Do Racists have lower IQ's...

    Liberals who bemoan discrimination, intolerance, restraint of Constitutional freedoms, and promotion of hatred toward various abberant minorities, have absolutely no problem with discriminating against, being intolerant of, restricting Constitutional freedoms of, and directing hate-filled scapegoat rhetoric against conservatives.

    EXACTLY what they accuse Republicans/conservatives of doing, is EXACTLY what liberals/Democrats do themselves, to those who oppose their beliefs.
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 34,398
Likes: 38
"Hey this is PCG342's bro..."
15000+ posts
"Hey this is PCG342's bro..."
15000+ posts
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 34,398
Likes: 38
 Originally Posted By: Captain Sammitch
on this day in 2005, jla looked down to see the shark sailing by beneath his feet and wondered just where it had all gone wrong...


You didn't like the story, Phil?


"Are you eating it...or is it eating you?"

[center][Linked Image from i13.photobucket.com] [/center]

[center][Linked Image from i13.photobucket.com][/center]
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 34,398
Likes: 38
"Hey this is PCG342's bro..."
15000+ posts
"Hey this is PCG342's bro..."
15000+ posts
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 34,398
Likes: 38
 Originally Posted By: Captain Sammitch
also,







"Are you eating it...or is it eating you?"

[center][Linked Image from i13.photobucket.com] [/center]

[center][Linked Image from i13.photobucket.com][/center]
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 33,385
Likes: 3
Regenerated
15000+ posts
Regenerated
15000+ posts
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 33,385
Likes: 3
 Originally Posted By: Wonder Boy
 Originally Posted By: Prometheus


Interesting that you hypocritically cut-and-pasted this, Pro.

Since you pathologically contribute daily to the "divide" portion of this graphic, as you partisanly rant endlessly about the evils of Republican-conservatives.


I'm sorry that picture offends you, David. It must be the "common sense" portion of it that frightens you so. Or, maybe you just don't understand it? A bit over your head?

Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 25,469
Likes: 37
brutally Kamphausened
15000+ posts
brutally Kamphausened
15000+ posts
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 25,469
Likes: 37
 Originally Posted By: Prometheus
 Originally Posted By: Wonder Boy
 Originally Posted By: Prometheus


Interesting that you hypocritically cut-and-pasted this, Pro.

Since you pathologically contribute daily to the "divide" portion of this graphic, as you partisanly rant endlessly about the evils of Republican-conservatives.


I'm sorry that picture offends you, David. It must be the "common sense" portion of it that frightens you so. Or, maybe you just don't understand it? A bit over your head?


The image does not offend me, Pro.

You whine about the partisan divide, and then you rail on conservatives and Fox News daily.

Perhaps the image is a bit over your head.


  • from Do Racists have lower IQ's...

    Liberals who bemoan discrimination, intolerance, restraint of Constitutional freedoms, and promotion of hatred toward various abberant minorities, have absolutely no problem with discriminating against, being intolerant of, restricting Constitutional freedoms of, and directing hate-filled scapegoat rhetoric against conservatives.

    EXACTLY what they accuse Republicans/conservatives of doing, is EXACTLY what liberals/Democrats do themselves, to those who oppose their beliefs.
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 17,868
Likes: 16
Son of Anarchist
15000+ posts
Son of Anarchist
15000+ posts
Offline
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 17,868
Likes: 16
over his bald head.

Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 17,868
Likes: 16
Son of Anarchist
15000+ posts
Son of Anarchist
15000+ posts
Offline
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 17,868
Likes: 16
it's like you're not even trying anymore.

Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 33,385
Likes: 3
Regenerated
15000+ posts
Regenerated
15000+ posts
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 33,385
Likes: 3
 Originally Posted By: Son of Mxy
it's like you're not even trying anymore.


Was he ever?

Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 17,868
Likes: 16
Son of Anarchist
15000+ posts
Son of Anarchist
15000+ posts
Offline
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 17,868
Likes: 16
when it comes to pedophilia.

Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 33,385
Likes: 3
Regenerated
15000+ posts
Regenerated
15000+ posts
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 33,385
Likes: 3
 Originally Posted By: Wonder Boy
 Originally Posted By: Prometheus
 Originally Posted By: Wonder Boy
 Originally Posted By: Prometheus


Interesting that you hypocritically cut-and-pasted this, Pro.

Since you pathologically contribute daily to the "divide" portion of this graphic, as you partisanly rant endlessly about the evils of Republican-conservatives.


I'm sorry that picture offends you, David. It must be the "common sense" portion of it that frightens you so. Or, maybe you just don't understand it? A bit over your head?


The image does not offend me, Pro.


Sure it does! Otherwise you wouldn't have bothered responding to it, when it wasn't directed at you at all. You chose its importance to you, so therefore it must have offended you enough to force a response?

OR: is it just because I posted it? \:lol\:

 Quote:
You whine about the partisan divide, and then you rail on conservatives and Fox News daily.


I rail on FAUXNews daily, which is symptomatic of a corrupt Republican base, just like the Dems and MSNBC. The only difference is, MSNBC and the like don't try and pretend they're anything but Liberally-slanted media. FAUXNews, on the other hand, has all the rednecks fooled.

So, what does that picture have to do with anti-Conservative/FAUXNews Partisanship? OH! It's because you saw me post it and assumed it must automatically be anti-Conservative? Or, is it because you believe, deep down, that they are the ones causing the great divide?

Either way, the fantasy you face right now is your own. That picture speaks volumes. It's exactly what's wrong with American politics and society. But, if you want it to be "anti-FAUX" or whatever, you go ahead. The actual point remains either way...

 Originally Posted By: Wonder Boy
I'm done with you.


\:lol\:

Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 33,385
Likes: 3
Regenerated
15000+ posts
Regenerated
15000+ posts
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 33,385
Likes: 3
 Originally Posted By: Son of Mxy
when it comes to pedophilia.

Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 25,469
Likes: 37
brutally Kamphausened
15000+ posts
brutally Kamphausened
15000+ posts
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 25,469
Likes: 37
 Originally Posted By: Prometheus
 Originally Posted By: Wonder Boy
 Originally Posted By: Prometheus
 Originally Posted By: Wonder Boy
 Originally Posted By: Prometheus


Interesting that you hypocritically cut-and-pasted this, Pro.

Since you pathologically contribute daily to the "divide" portion of this graphic, as you partisanly rant endlessly about the evils of Republican-conservatives.


I'm sorry that picture offends you, David. It must be the "common sense" portion of it that frightens you so. Or, maybe you just don't understand it? A bit over your head?


The image does not offend me, Pro.


Sure it does! Otherwise you wouldn't have bothered responding to it, when it wasn't directed at you at all. You chose its importance to you, so therefore it must have offended you enough to force a response?

OR: is it just because I posted it? \:lol\:

 Quote:
You whine about the partisan divide, and then you rail on conservatives and Fox News daily.


I rail on FAUXNews daily, which is symptomatic of a corrupt Republican base, just like the Dems and MSNBC. The only difference is, MSNBC and the like don't try and pretend they're anything but Liberally-slanted media. FAUXNews, on the other hand, has all the rednecks fooled.

So, what does that picture have to do with anti-Conservative/FAUXNews Partisanship? OH! It's because you saw me post it and assumed it must automatically be anti-Conservative? Or, is it because you believe, deep down, that they are the ones causing the great divide?

Either way, the fantasy you face right now is your own. That picture speaks volumes. It's exactly what's wrong with American politics and society. But, if you want it to be "anti-FAUX" or whatever, you go ahead. The actual point remains either way...

 Originally Posted By: Wonder Boy
I'm done with you.


\:lol\:


You're an idiot, Pro.

I could not possibly be more clear.
The image does not offend me. What offends me is your hypocrisy in posting it. You claim to be neutral and condemn MSNBC and other far-left media, but in post after post, topic after topic, you clearly are the liberal indoctrinated, and pretend to be a moderate you're clearly not.

Your opinion on gay issues. Where someone who doesn't agree with your position is not simply a person you respectfully disagree with. No, they're neanderthal. They're evil! They're unfit to be part of civilization and should be denied any voice.

Likewise your opinion cheering on revolution in the Occupy Wall Street topic. Anyone who doesn't agree with your highly opinionated version of the facts is a corporate dupe, a Republican shill, EVIL, I tell you, EVIL!! Meanwhile, you're the one who cheers on leftist/marxist violence, and then backpedalled from that zeal when you were called on it.

And needless to say, your opinion of our military in uniform is so insulting and vile that any number of them would beat you to death on the spot if they knew what you said behind their backs on these boards.

You are one fucking piece of work, Pro.

And so it is with anyone who disagrees with your opinion of Fox News. DESPITE THAT YOU NEVER EVEN WATCH IT, to know one way or the other what Fox actually reports.

So, basically.... you're a very opinionated intolerant liberal jerk, who lives for the opportunity to slander and mock people and beliefs you never bothered to even try to understand.

The only way you can go on rationalizing what you believe is just to put your blinders on and blanket-stereotype people who don't share your view of how the world works.


  • from Do Racists have lower IQ's...

    Liberals who bemoan discrimination, intolerance, restraint of Constitutional freedoms, and promotion of hatred toward various abberant minorities, have absolutely no problem with discriminating against, being intolerant of, restricting Constitutional freedoms of, and directing hate-filled scapegoat rhetoric against conservatives.

    EXACTLY what they accuse Republicans/conservatives of doing, is EXACTLY what liberals/Democrats do themselves, to those who oppose their beliefs.
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 33,385
Likes: 3
Regenerated
15000+ posts
Regenerated
15000+ posts
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 33,385
Likes: 3
Why Are Police Attacking Peaceful Protesters?
How OWS Has Exposed the Militarization of US Law Enforcement


 Quote:
As the number of Occupy Wall Street arrests nears 1,000, instances of police brutality continue to pile up. Felix Rivera-Pitre was punched in the face in New York during a march through the city’s financial district; Ryan Hadar was dragged out of the street by his thumbs at Occupy San Francisco; and at Occupy Boston, members of Veterans for Peace were shoved to the ground and dragged away for chanting and peacefully occupying a local park.

These efforts to intimidate the protesters are symptoms of three decades of policies that have militarized civilian law enforcement. Sgt. Shamar Thomas, a U.S. marine at the Occupy Wall Street protests, was so appalled by the behavior of the NYPD that he loudly confronted a group of 30 officers, shouting at them:

"This is not a war zone. These are unarmed people. It does not make you tough to hurt these people. If you want to go fight, go to Iraq or Afghanistan. Stop hurting these people, man, why y’all doing this to our people? Why are y’all gearing up like this is war? There are no bullets flying out here."

Police repression in America is hardly new. Low-income neighborhoods, communities of color and political activists have always had to deal with unneccassary shows of force by some police officers. Thanks to a populist uprising threatening a status quo that benefits the top tier of American society to the detriment of the bottom 99 percent, many Americans for the first time are witnessing the U.S. police state in action.

As Occupation Spreads, So Does the Police State

A clear pattern has emerged in the response to occupations throughout the country, from San Francisco to Denver, involving midnight raids by heavily armed paramilitary units of riot police deployed to enforce park curfews.

Protesters at Occupy San Francisco are familiar with the routine. They have endured multiple late-night police raids on their encampment in Justin Herman Plaza, the most brutal of which took place Sunday, Oct. 16. Minutes before midnight and with the approval of Mayor Ed Lee (who is currently running for reelection and claims to be supportive of the movement's overall message), 70 police officers decked out in full riot gear marched into the encampment to enforce a 10pm curfew. They dismantled tents, tarps, the medical station and the kitchen, along with some personal belongings, all of which were loaded onto Department of Public Works trucks.

Some 200 protesters resisted peacefully, locking arms to prevent the police invasion, which was met with a frighteningly violent response. According to the San Francisco Bay Guardian, one protester received a lengthy beat-down for duct-taping his body to a pole inside the camp. The police allegedly "ripped him off the pole, threw him to the ground and struck him in the head and ribs. When he left by ambulance a few hours later, he appeared to be convulsing or seizing," reported the Bay Guardian.

Protesters using their bodies to block the DPW trucks from leaving were dragged out of the street, some by their fingers and thumbs. Those who locked arms to form a human chain were pulled apart and thrown onto the sidewalk.

Ryan Hadar, 19, described his experience to the Guardian: “They bent back my thumbs, trying to pry me away from the people I was locking arms with. When I asked if they were trying to break my thumbs [one officer] replied, ‘Only if I have to.’ Then they dragged me to the sidewalk by my index finger. I asked if they were trying to break my finger, and this time they replied, ‘Yes.’"

After destroying the campsite, sending one activist to the hospital and arresting at least five protesters, the police departed from the scene around 1:40am.

Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 33,385
Likes: 3
Regenerated
15000+ posts
Regenerated
15000+ posts
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 33,385
Likes: 3
 Originally Posted By: Wonder Boy
You're an idiot, Pro.


\:lol\:

 Quote:
I could not possibly be more clear.
The image does not offend me. What offends me is your hypocrisy in posting it.


You mean, kind of how I've made this thread to show the corruption of modern corporate politics, and posted an image as an example of said corruption? Or, do you mean "hypocrisy" in how you promote FAUXNews as "Fair & Balanced", the primary source for most of your opinions and talking points, but cannot simply refute the facts of Hard-Right bias on their part?

You made need to think about that again. I believe you are missing something. ;\)

 Quote:
You claim to be neutral and condemn MSNBC and other far-left media, but in post after post, topic after topic, you clearly are the liberal indoctrinated, and pretend to be a moderate you're clearly not.


I don't "pretend" to be anything I'm not. I post facts. You cry. Rinse, repeat. Nothing's changed. You believe there is a bias since you have found yourself backing the wrong side. You support corruption of politics and business...as long as it benefits your Republican Party. Other than that? Marxism, Liberal Media, Socialism, etc., etc. You're like clockwork, David. We can all set our watches to your crazy.

 Quote:
Your opinion on gay issues. Where someone who doesn't agree with your position is not simply a person you respectfully disagree with. No, they're neanderthal. They're evil! They're unfit to be part of civilization and should be denied any voice.


................. WTF are you talking about, David? I'm genuinely lost on this point. Have I offended you in the past with my opinions? I don't rememeber, honestly. But, if you got something to accuse me of, stop being a pussy and just post it. I'm not going to sit here and try and figure out exactly what the hell you're on about. There's so many instances of you freaking out, I cannot narrow down the conversation you're talking about in my head.

 Quote:
Likewise your opinion cheering on revolution in the Occupy Wall Street topic. Anyone who doesn't agree with your highly opinionated version of the facts is a corporate dupe, a Republican shill, EVIL, I tell you, EVIL!! Meanwhile, you're the one who cheers on leftist/marxist violence, and then backpedalled from that zeal when you were called on it.


Show me where I've called you, or anyone here, "evil". Go ahead. Show me. I'll wait. Go grab the quote from the OWS thread and post it here. I mean, Phil made me a banner made up of all your life-threatening sayings about me being an "enabler of evil". I'd like to see you prove I said the same thing.

 Quote:
And needless to say, your opinion of our military in uniform is so insulting and vile that any number of them would beat you to death on the spot if they knew what you said behind their backs on these boards.


And there we go! Another violent threat from David the Wonder Racist! \:lol\: \:lol\: \:lol\: Keep it up, David. A few more posts like that, and I'll be happy to contact the law enforcement in Florida to have a conversation with you. I don't appreciate some ignorant old man redneck threatening my life behind a computer screen. So, keep it up, fool. You'll find yourself in a looot of real-world trouble (because you don't actually know what I do in real life, do you?)

 Quote:
You are one fucking piece of work, Pro.


I certainly am. Fair, honest, and to the point. All my facts sourced and proven. Meanwhile, you have yet to address a single point of the post you quoted. So, who's the "fucking piece of work", David? Oh, that's right. It's the crying infant who demands everyone act and think the way he wants: white, rich, and dominant over the weak. Good luck with that. \:lol\:

 Quote:
And so it is with anyone who disagrees with your opinion of Fox News. DESPITE THAT YOU NEVER EVEN WATCH IT, to know one way or the other what Fox actually reports.


And yet I can source it anytime I want, showing you exactly what I'm talking about. How about that G. Gordon Liddy thing, eh? I mean, I never watch FAUXNews. So, how did I know something you didn't? Of that's right, because you're just dumb.

 Originally Posted By: Wonder Boy
So, basically.... I'm a very opinionated intolerant Tea Party redneck, who lives for the opportunity to slander and mock people and beliefs I never bothered to even try to understand.


Agreed and well said!

 Quote:
The only way you can go on rationalizing what you believe is just to put your blinders on and blanket-stereotype people who don't share your view of how the world works.


Kind of like how you claim I'm a Marxist Socialist Terrorist who you want to kill? Right.

BTW, if I had to "rationalize" any of my points, logic would state that I would be alone in my opinions on subjects. Whereas, 99% of the world backs "my view" of the world. Why? Because it's reality. The real world, not the Right vision of White Utopia and Corporate Capitalism.

So, either get over yourself and stop whining all over the place like a sad, bitter infant, and join the human race, or face constant defeat in your personal life. There's no real third option. Take your time.

Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 17,868
Likes: 16
Son of Anarchist
15000+ posts
Son of Anarchist
15000+ posts
Offline
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 17,868
Likes: 16
Pro, you are certainly a Marxist Socialist Terrorist whom I want to kill. But only because I called dibs on the missus.

Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 33,385
Likes: 3
Regenerated
15000+ posts
Regenerated
15000+ posts
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 33,385
Likes: 3
 Originally Posted By: Son of Mxy
Pro, you are certainly a Marxist Socialist Terrorist whom I want to kill. But only because I called dibs on the missus.


Now that's guts I can RESPECT!

Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 25,469
Likes: 37
brutally Kamphausened
15000+ posts
brutally Kamphausened
15000+ posts
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 25,469
Likes: 37
 Originally Posted By: Prometheus
 Originally Posted By: Wonder Boy
You're an idiot, Pro.


\:lol\:

 Quote:
I could not possibly be more clear.
The image does not offend me. What offends me is your hypocrisy in posting it.


You mean, kind of how I've made this thread to show the corruption of modern corporate politics, and posted an image as an example of said corruption? Or, do you mean "hypocrisy" in how you promote FAUXNews as "Fair & Balanced", the primary source for most of your opinions and talking points, but cannot simply refute the facts of Hard-Right bias on their part?

You made need to think about that again. I believe you are missing something. ;\)

 Quote:
You claim to be neutral and condemn MSNBC and other far-left media, but in post after post, topic after topic, you clearly are the liberal indoctrinated, and pretend to be a moderate you're clearly not.


I don't "pretend" to be anything I'm not. I post facts. You cry. Rinse, repeat. Nothing's changed. You believe there is a bias since you have found yourself backing the wrong side. You support corruption of politics and business...as long as it benefits your Republican Party. Other than that? Marxism, Liberal Media, Socialism, etc., etc. You're like clockwork, David. We can all set our watches to your crazy.

 Quote:
Your opinion on gay issues. Where someone who doesn't agree with your position is not simply a person you respectfully disagree with. No, they're neanderthal. They're evil! They're unfit to be part of civilization and should be denied any voice.


................. WTF are you talking about, David? I'm genuinely lost on this point. Have I offended you in the past with my opinions? I don't rememeber, honestly. But, if you got something to accuse me of, stop being a pussy and just post it. I'm not going to sit here and try and figure out exactly what the hell you're on about. There's so many instances of you freaking out, I cannot narrow down the conversation you're talking about in my head.

 Quote:
Likewise your opinion cheering on revolution in the Occupy Wall Street topic. Anyone who doesn't agree with your highly opinionated version of the facts is a corporate dupe, a Republican shill, EVIL, I tell you, EVIL!! Meanwhile, you're the one who cheers on leftist/marxist violence, and then backpedalled from that zeal when you were called on it.


Show me where I've called you, or anyone here, "evil". Go ahead. Show me. I'll wait. Go grab the quote from the OWS thread and post it here. I mean, Phil made me a banner made up of all your life-threatening sayings about me being an "enabler of evil". I'd like to see you prove I said the same thing.

 Quote:
And needless to say, your opinion of our military in uniform is so insulting and vile that any number of them would beat you to death on the spot if they knew what you said behind their backs on these boards.


And there we go! Another violent threat from David the Wonder Racist! \:lol\: \:lol\: \:lol\: Keep it up, David. A few more posts like that, and I'll be happy to contact the law enforcement in Florida to have a conversation with you. I don't appreciate some ignorant old man redneck threatening my life behind a computer screen. So, keep it up, fool. You'll find yourself in a looot of real-world trouble (because you don't actually know what I do in real life, do you?)

 Quote:
You are one fucking piece of work, Pro.


I certainly am. Fair, honest, and to the point. All my facts sourced and proven. Meanwhile, you have yet to address a single point of the post you quoted. So, who's the "fucking piece of work", David? Oh, that's right. It's the crying infant who demands everyone act and think the way he wants: white, rich, and dominant over the weak. Good luck with that. \:lol\:

 Quote:
And so it is with anyone who disagrees with your opinion of Fox News. DESPITE THAT YOU NEVER EVEN WATCH IT, to know one way or the other what Fox actually reports.


And yet I can source it anytime I want, showing you exactly what I'm talking about. How about that G. Gordon Liddy thing, eh? I mean, I never watch FAUXNews. So, how did I know something you didn't? Of that's right, because you're just dumb.

 Originally Posted By: Wonder Boy
So, basically.... I'm a very opinionated intolerant Tea Party redneck, who lives for the opportunity to slander and mock people and beliefs I never bothered to even try to understand.


Agreed and well said!

 Quote:
The only way you can go on rationalizing what you believe is just to put your blinders on and blanket-stereotype people who don't share your view of how the world works.


Kind of like how you claim I'm a Marxist Socialist Terrorist who you want to kill? Right.

BTW, if I had to "rationalize" any of my points, logic would state that I would be alone in my opinions on subjects. Whereas, 99% of the world backs "my view" of the world. Why? Because it's reality. The real world, not the Right vision of White Utopia and Corporate Capitalism.

So, either get over yourself and stop whining all over the place like a sad, bitter infant, and join the human race, or face constant defeat in your personal life. There's no real third option. Take your time.


There are no facts to respond to.

Just more insults, emoticons, and your highly opinionated oh-so-"objective" opinion.

I answered you twice. You're just in denial of the truth and being a troll. I've laid out your game plan previously:

How to troll like Prometheus topic.


  • from Do Racists have lower IQ's...

    Liberals who bemoan discrimination, intolerance, restraint of Constitutional freedoms, and promotion of hatred toward various abberant minorities, have absolutely no problem with discriminating against, being intolerant of, restricting Constitutional freedoms of, and directing hate-filled scapegoat rhetoric against conservatives.

    EXACTLY what they accuse Republicans/conservatives of doing, is EXACTLY what liberals/Democrats do themselves, to those who oppose their beliefs.
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 46,308
rex Offline
Who will I break next?
15000+ posts
Who will I break next?
15000+ posts
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 46,308
The wonderful person in charge of the occupy oakland twitter account told everyone to burn the banks. How can anyone still support this shit?


November 6th, 2012: Americas new Independence Day.
rex #1163768 2011-10-26 3:44 AM
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 17,868
Likes: 16
Son of Anarchist
15000+ posts
Son of Anarchist
15000+ posts
Offline
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 17,868
Likes: 16
Aren't there laws against that sort of shit? Like inciting to burn a motherfucking bank down or other legalese stuff.

I'm all for kicking the banks down a peg or two, but burning a branch only hurts normal people who just happen to work there (the 1% are somewhere else, safe and unharmed), and the cash are usually inside fireproof vaults (and inside computers, in ones and zeros).

Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 46,308
rex Offline
Who will I break next?
15000+ posts
Who will I break next?
15000+ posts
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 46,308
I'm not really sure. It's been deleted but oakland will probably be in flames by tomorrow.


November 6th, 2012: Americas new Independence Day.
rex #1163772 2011-10-26 3:57 AM
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 17,868
Likes: 16
Son of Anarchist
15000+ posts
Son of Anarchist
15000+ posts
Offline
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 17,868
Likes: 16
I see this whole thing as similar to that scene in that one movie where they are being cooked inside a big pot full of water. They kept kicking the pot hoping that it will fall down (so that they can crawl away and hopefully douse the flames with the water). The only problem is that the kicks only manage to shake the pot and spill some of the water, so that there's less water to heat and they actually get boiled faster.

Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 17,868
Likes: 16
Son of Anarchist
15000+ posts
Son of Anarchist
15000+ posts
Offline
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 17,868
Likes: 16
Actually it's not similar. I just remembered that one scene and I just had to share it with somebody.

Joined: May 2008
Posts: 7,082
Likes: 30
Society's Discontent
6000+ posts
Society's Discontent
6000+ posts
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 7,082
Likes: 30
Conflict of Interests at the Federal Reserve:

http://sanders.senate.gov/newsroom/news/?id=70c40aba-736c-4716-97d1-45f1a1af10a0

 Quote:
October 19, 2011

WASHINGTON, Oct. 19 - A new audit of the Federal Reserve released today detailed widespread conflicts of interest involving directors of its regional banks.

"The most powerful entity in the United States is riddled with conflicts of interest," Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-Vt.) said after reviewing the Government Accountability Office report. The study required by a Sanders Amendment to last year's Wall Street reform law examined Fed practices never before subjected to such independent, expert scrutiny.

The GAO detailed instance after instance of top executives of corporations and financial institutions using their influence as Federal Reserve directors to financially benefit their firms, and, in at least one instance, themselves. "Clearly it is unacceptable for so few people to wield so much unchecked power," Sanders said. "Not only do they run the banks, they run the institutions that regulate the banks."

Sanders said he will work with leading economists to develop legislation to restructure the Fed and bar the banking industry from picking Fed directors. "This is exactly the kind of outrageous behavior by the big banks and Wall Street that is infuriating so many Americans," Sanders said.

The corporate affiliations of Fed directors from such banking and industry giants as General Electric, JP Morgan Chase, and Lehman Brothers pose "reputational risks" to the Federal Reserve System, the report said. Giving the banking industry the power to both elect and serve as Fed directors creates "an appearance of a conflict of interest," the report added.

The 108-page report found that at least 18 specific current and former Fed board members were affiliated with banks and companies that received emergency loans from the Federal Reserve during the financial crisis.

In the dry and understated language of auditors, the report noted that there are no restrictions in Fed rules on directors communicating concerns about their respective banks to the staff of the Federal Reserve. It also said many directors own stock or work directly for banks that are supervised and regulated by the Federal Reserve. The rules, which the Fed has kept secret, let directors tied to banks participate in decisions involving how much interest to charge financial institutions and how much credit to provide healthy banks and institutions in "hazardous" condition. Even when situations arise that run afoul of Fed's conflict rules and waivers are granted, the GAO said the waivers are kept hidden from the public.

The report by the non-partisan research arm of Congress did not name but unambiguously described several individual cases involving Fed directors that created the appearance of a conflict of interest, including:

Stephen Friedman In 2008, the New York Fed approved an application from Goldman Sachs to become a bank holding company giving it access to cheap Fed loans. During the same period, Friedman, chairman of the New York Fed, sat on the Goldman Sachs board of directors and owned Goldman stock, something the Fed's rules prohibited. He received a waiver in late 2008 that was not made public. After Friedman received the waiver, he continued to purchase stock in Goldman from November 2008 through January of 2009 unbeknownst to the Fed, according to the GAO.
Jeffrey Immelt The Federal Reserve Bank of New York consulted with General Electric on the creation of the Commercial Paper Funding Facility. The Fed later provided $16 billion in financing for GE under the emergency lending program while Immelt, GE's CEO, served as a director on the board of the Federal Reserve Bank of New York.
Jamie Dimon The CEO of JP Morgan Chase served on the board of the Federal Reserve Bank of New York at the same time that his bank received emergency loans from the Fed and was used by the Fed as a clearing bank for the Fed's emergency lending programs. In 2008, the Fed provided JP Morgan Chase with $29 billion in financing to acquire Bear Stearns.At the time, Dimon persuaded the Fed to provide JP Morgan Chase with an 18-month exemption from risk-based leverage and capital requirements. He also convinced the Fed to take risky mortgage-related assets off of Bear Stearns balance sheet before JP Morgan Chase acquired this troubled investment bank.


Read the full report here: http://sanders.senate.gov/imo/media/doc/d1218%20%282%29.pdf

rex #1163782 2011-10-26 4:40 AM
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 17,801
terrible podcaster
15000+ posts
terrible podcaster
15000+ posts
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 17,801
 Originally Posted By: rex
I'm not really sure. It's been deleted but oakland will probably be in flames by tomorrow.


and this will differentiate itself from any other day in oakland... how?


go.

ᴚ ᴀ ᴐ ᴋ ᴊ ᴌ ᴧ
ಠ_ಠ
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 17,868
Likes: 16
Son of Anarchist
15000+ posts
Son of Anarchist
15000+ posts
Offline
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 17,868
Likes: 16
BTW, I probably missed it because I don't really follow the news, but what's Obama's take on the whole Occupy protests?

I mean, he's the goddamn president (are you retarded or something?), so he's got to have something to say about something this big, right?

Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 46,308
rex Offline
Who will I break next?
15000+ posts
Who will I break next?
15000+ posts
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 46,308
He hasn't outright supported them as far as I know but he has said good things about them. The protesters are mainly people who voted for him and are upset that he has been a complete failure. Since they hate money, they're going after wall street instead of the white house.


November 6th, 2012: Americas new Independence Day.
Page 18 of 47 1 2 16 17 18 19 20 46 47

Link Copied to Clipboard
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 8.0.0