RKMBs Forums .::Important::. Politics and Current Events 17 year old Trayvon Martin shot by Neighborhood watch guy Zimmerman

Zimmerman also weighed more than Martin. You like to just go by height for some reason but if you compare builds it looks to me like Martin was basically a stick while Zimmerman was beefier.

Nope. Just looking at the facts of the case. It clear Trayvon was unarmed and Zimmerman was armed. That's all I need to see. All anyone needs to see. He murdered an unarmed kid. Fact.

he wasn't unarmed, he was black. The fists of a black person is considered a deadly weapon.

I expected as much, intelligent thought was never your strong suit.

I guess there has never ever been any incident of an unarmed man attacking somebody who had a weapon on them.

The trouble with that is Martin didn't have a history of doing that. Zimmerman however does. Besides an ex's allegations he also got into a fight with a cop.

All I'm saying is too much is not known. That is all.

I'll wait to see what goes on during the trial.

Except he did this time, as Zimmerman's wounds will attest.

This is another bone of contention with how the media reported this. Seems like the weight of 250 for Zimmerman was a six year old stat. Martin's own family puts him at 6'2" instead of the 6' reported. Turns out that both were about the same size with Martin having the height advantage and Zimmerman the weight (about a ten to twenty pound difference). So, it could have been anyone's game.

Again, you don't have all the facts; but you've decided that you already know the truth.

Finally somebody's talking some sense.

I was looking at the more recent pictures of Martin and the footage of Zimmerman just after he killed Martin. Martin's arms look like pipe cleaners, while Zimmerman has a more burly build.

Be careful there are alot of pics of Martin out there that are him at age 14.

Seriously, how much do you really know about shifting your weight and being bulky vs. being wiry?

Or--better question--how many fights have you actually been in?

Have you seen any pics where his arms don't look like pipe cleaners? The kid may have been over 6 feet but Martin only weighed around 160 lbs. That weight and height equals thin & gangly.

Bruce Lee was 5'7 and around 140. I bet he can also catch Zimmerman off guard and tackle him to the ground, despite the weight and mass difference.

Now Reuters is reporting Zimmerman is part black as well. The left's whole "white racist killed a black kid" narrative is rapidly falling apart, proving again how stupid it is to prejudge anything about this case.

Part black, part mexican, and part white...Zimmerman is Mariah Carey?

If he had a record contract, Animalman would be on here defending him.

Asians don't count. They're all born with the ability to chop concrete blocks in half.

No it's not. He's a white man with a pistol that disobeyed the police and stalked Trayvon like a serial killer. He murdered an unarmed, black child. Clear cut. Facts. The end.

Anything else is partisan pandering in an attempt to make you all feel better for trying to help free a CHILD KILLER. Politics have ruined your soul. Think about that.

I mean, except G. As we've seen previously, he thinks of non-whites as "subhumans".

Are you deliberately trying to be the left-wing Wonder Boy?

Then, how do I make you like a child in every thread? Simp.



I'm sure there is. But, this was a gangly, unarmed teenager. Zimmerman's an abusive ex-cop that stalked and murdered him with a pistol he carried.

Again, twist and turn and "I'll wait and see MORE facts" (as what's going to 'come to light' that will exonerate Zimmerman, I don't know...unless Trayvon had a pistol, as well?) all you want.

Shooter murders kid. That's all the facts I need to see. It's called actual morality. Not justified/validated/political arena morality. If an armed, abusive BLACK ex-cop stalked and murdered an unarmed, gangly WHITE teenager, it would STILL be wrong. No matter who it is and how you "look at it". You're all trying to frame this action as if a child wasn't killed. "Oh, he was in his rights", "Oh the kid dressed 'gangsta", "Oh we haven't seen all the facts", "Oh he's part-black so it's okay that he murdered him", etc., etc. Ridiculous. Get some perspective.

Murder is a sin against nature. Against God, in whatever form you believe. There's no other case to make. Don't think soldiers of any nation get a clean-pass to the afterlife because they were doing it "for their country". That's between them and whatever almighty you might believe in. In the end, it always comes down to this: You took another human's life.

Anything after that is desperation in seeking validation from society. Nothing more. Nothing less.

Fact.

Nope, just pointing out how everyone is dancing around the morality of the issue as if they had some evolved morality that would explain why it's okay to justify the murder of an innocent...

That's how my house was built....

Shhh!!! MEM!! All the "facts" aren't in yet!

Uh...you DO know Trayvon was wearing a hoodie, right?

You have no proof that Martin didn't attack Zimmerman, therefore you can't use such broad strokes as claiming Martin was 'an innocent'. If it's shown that Martin didn't attack Zimmerman and Zimmerman made it all up (including, apparently, beating himself up), then I'll agree that he's a cold-blooded murderer that should be locked up. Otherwise, you're simply making shit up to let yourself feel as though you've got the moral high-ground. Zimmerman wasn't an ex-cop, as you keep incorrectly stating. Nor is there any evidence of racists tendencies in his past. There is actually the opposite. After the recent media fuck-ups with unjust calls of racism, I'm preferring to make an informed opinion rather than rash judgements.

I concede if he's not an ex-cop, that I misheard that in another article. Fair enough. But, let me ask you this: I'm half-Irish. Does that make it okay if I stalk and kill, specifically, an Irish teenager walking around? According to G-man's post it does.

But....the "facts" as you keep claiming you're waiting for...seem to be clear:

Zimmerman / Weapon = Pistol / Disobeyed police orders not to stalk the kid / Shot and killed kid

Martin / Weapon = Hoodie / Walking by himself at night / Gets stalked by Zimmerman / Shot and killed by Zimmerman


Unless someone can show me the advanced hand-to-hand combat training Martin took....unless someone can show me the weapon or gun he was carrying....unless someone can show me what illegal activity he was involved in when he was murdered.....unless someone can show me Zimmerman remained in his car and did not intentionally stalk the aforementioned hoodie-wearing, unarmed kid....and was NOT the shooter that killed him.....then, no, I don't see where any more "facts" need to appear. It's pretty much all there.

If I were walking the sidewalk at night, and some dude was following me and carrying a gun? And you think Trayvon was the instigator here? LOL!! Again, perspective.

If two grown men got into a fist-fight, and one of them pulled a gun and shot the other, then said shooter gets charged with murder. How is it not the exact same case here? Especially since we're talking about a teenager in this instance and a grown man.

Or, is it, because the kid was black that it's questionable?

You can sit there and state I'm trying to find some moral high ground on this argument. Thing is, I don't need to find it. I know it.

Armed man kills unarmed kid. That's the broken-down truth, right there. No cultural polish. No media or racial agenda. Just that.

He's guilty. Everything else is spin.

It makes it less likely that you're biased against Irish. That's what the article is pointing out. Nowhere does it justify killing. It simply points out that the 'facts' about Zimmerman have been wrong. Just like your 'fact' about him being an ex-cop.



Zimmerman didn't disobey police orders. The 911 dispatcher, who is not a cop, said that he didn't have to follow Martin. Zimmerman, having been told the same thing in another incident where the thief (as he was caught days later) got away, decided that he wasn't chancing another one disappearing before the police showed up.



Martin/ Weapon = possibly fist. Again, you've left our a lot of the real fact to concentrate on the ones that support the decision you've already made. You neglect that the neighborhood had been suffering from a rash of robberies and vandalism for years. What would you do if you suddenly saw someone you didn't know walking around your neighborhood at night after repeated instances of burglary? I'm guessing you'd probably say, "Well, he's black; and I can do anything that might be considered racist. I'll just have to ignore this whole episode."




You have just shown your own stubbornness and ignorance in this one rant. You've made a decision and require bullshit evidence to change it. Martin can't just be a kid who could brawl with his hands and fists. He has to have 'advanced' training to be a danger to anyone. I guess anyone who has beaten anyone else to death must have been military trained or spent years in isolated Shao Lin temples.

It's those last two lines of yours that echoes with me. I remember having a discussion with this uber partisan chick once who, when I brought out honest to god facts, told me, "I don't care what the facts are. The facts won't change my mind."



So Zimmerman was following Martin with his gun drawn and waving it about? My god, Pro, if you witnessed this crime, why the hell haven't you come forward and given testimony? You cruel motherfucker.



You're claiming to know that Zimmerman is guilty without knowing if he was the aggressor or Martin was. There is a legal process to show if self defense is credible. You've made up your mind before that process has taken place.



You're the one concerned with race since you're okay with foregoing due process to penalize a 'racist'.



Thank you for proving my point.



And no facts.



Guilty of what? Murder? Bad judgement? That's the question. Zimmerman shouldn't be let loose if he killed Martin when he could have avoided it. Again, if Martin attacked Zimmerman, Zimmerman shouldn't just lay on the ground and let someone fucking hammer him. A man has a right to defend himself. The question is whether Zimmerman's actions were defense or something else and criminal.

HAHAHAHA!!!

So, then, it wasn't that Trayvon was a threat of any real kind, other than he might have stolen some TV's? And THAT'S justification for stalking and murdering an unarmed teenager?

Gotcha.



Oh my god, a fist??! From a scrawny teenager?? Thank GOD this grown adult who took upon himself to patrol the night like fucking Batman had a pistol on him...........................



Just as you ignore all the actual, proven facts to support validation of the political consensus of your party?



Call the police. That's what my taxes pay for. How about they do something other than gas protesters and war vets?

What? You think the right thing to do is pick up a pistol and go take the law into your own hands? Not unless they're coming in my house. That's the law, man.



Well, you know me, JD. I'm always making excuses for those "darkies", right? How facetiously silly you are...



Stubborn? Sure. Ignorance? Don't cry. I get enough of that from--{HE WHOSE NAME MUST NEVER BE SPOKEN IN 3RD PERSON}.



You mean facts that would oppose the actual facts of the case? Yes. Yes, I require evidence to support why it was justified in any way, shape, or form that a grown, armed man who stalked and instigated a violent encounter with an unarmed teenager is then allowed to KILL said unarmed teenager in cold blood. That's the way it works.



Yeah, that's cool. I'm sure he could have been JUST a kid that brawled on the streets. So, that means, it's even LESS of a reason a grown man like Zimmerman couldn't subdue or restrain him without just fucking gunning him down. Good point.



No, not at all. But, since we're talking about an armed stalker and an unarmed kid, your point defeats itself.



Well then, you're in luck, man, for two reasons:

A) My points are clear, and backed by legitimate facts.

B) I ain't the chick you talked to. Take your lesbian frustrations out on someone else.



I'd rather sit here and torture the weak. It's what evil does. Ask Dave. I'm also able to consider the reality of the scenario. Zimmerman stalked kid. Zimmerman killed kid. Same math, no matter how you slice it.



Wait, wait....did Zimmerman shoot the kid? Yes or no? If "YES", then I just gave you the facts. Right there. Your bias is blinding you.



Yes.



One-hundred-percent true. He should have fought back with his fists. If he was unprepared, physically, to be able to take a scrawny teen then the fact he was armed was premeditation. He had every intention of using that pistol the moment he picked it up to take it with him. He never should have been out there. He never should have disobeyed police instructions (oh, I'm sorry....9/11 instructions...you know, the official dispatchers of the police). He never should have stalked that kid. He was going to kill him. Again, that's obvious.



He doesn't have the right to murder an unarmed child. Period.



How can they be defensive? Again, you seem to forget, Zimmerman was a grown man, armed with a gun. Trayvon was a teenager, with no weapon at all. There's nothing to defend against.


Oh, and BTW ------>

I just want it know, I'm in no way defending Zimmerman.

He may very well have murdered that kid.


I'm just saying I don't know exactly what happened there, and nobody ever will.

Okay, you and MEM need to stop proclaiming yourselves as being the foremost experts on hand-to-hand in relation to weight classes. You have no clue what you're talking about.

This isn't boxing we're talking about where fighters are confined to jabs, hooks, and haymakers. And even then, if you know how to throw your weight correctly, you can do some hefty damage regardless of a weight disparity.

Speaking from personal experience in combatives certification courses I can tell you that being tall and wiry gives you a tremendous advantage in leveraging someone to the ground. While it may be true that conventional ground grapples become useless when you get to a certain disparity in weight class, that simply was not the case here. Unless Zimmerman's superior weight class consisted of pure muscle--which I sincerely doubt judging from his build--you have no case here.

So please stop talking out of your ass.