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Kiss your wedge issue good bye fellas.


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 Originally Posted By: Matter-eater Man
Kiss your wedge issue good bye fellas.


Wishful thinking on your part, M E M.

This is far from over.

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I think there will be some sort of new southern strategy but you'll never see somebody like the last republican President use it like Bush did. Perhaps in the future you'll even be posting about how Harvey Milk being a republican.


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Wishful thinking, M E M.

As I've said before, gay marriage and other Political Correctness can be imposed on an unwilling public, but we will never accept it in our hearts.

The fact that a few sheep's-clothed "conservatives" surrender on the issue doesn't change what hundreds of millions know to be a mockery of true marriage.


And I would advise the Pope to read his own holy book:

http://www.biblegateway.com/versions/New-International-Version-NIV-Bible/#books
  • GENESIS 18 and 19 (destruction of Sodom and Gommorah)
    LEVITICUS 20:13 ("A man shall not lay with a man, the way he does with a woman...")
    ROMANS 1:18-32 (homosexuality a manifestation of society that has "given themselves over to a depraved mind" and are on the edge of self-destruction.)

    And affirming the above in the New Testament:

    1 CORINTHIANS 6:9-11
    2 PETER 2:1-12
    JUDE v5-10

and there are thousands of psych professionals who still treat homosexuality as a compulsive --and curable-- disorder.

Is it possible to turn gay people straight?"


As I cited above, a disproportionate (46%) of homosexuals report being homosexually molested at a young age, and themselves seek out counseling to rid themselves of confused homosexual feelings that they themselves attribute to their molestation.

Add to that, far from desiring objective study of the subject, how gay activists try to harass and intimidate into silence any who even ask the question of whether homosexuality might not be inborn.

The Pope's strategy of surrender on gay marriage and abortion belies that the facts, both in the church's own Bible, and in the known facts on these issues. If he only had the courage to stand for these issues, instead of caving in to nebulous perception of liberal-dominated public opinion.

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 Originally Posted By: the G-man

You might recall conservatives fretting that a recognition of gay marriage could soon lead to legalizing polygamy and incest. Those concerns were typically scoffed at by liberals.


Associated Press :
  • Advocacy groups for polygamy and individual liberties on Saturday hailed a federal judge's ruling that key parts of Utah's polygamy laws are unconstitutional, saying it will remove the threat of arrest for those families.

    U.S. District Judge Clark Waddoups said in the decision handed down Friday that a provision in Utah law forbidding cohabitation with another person violated the First Amendment right of freedom of religion.

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 Originally Posted By: the G-man
 Originally Posted By: the G-man

You might recall conservatives fretting that a recognition of gay marriage could soon lead to legalizing polygamy and incest. Those concerns were typically scoffed at by liberals.


Associated Press :
  • Advocacy groups for polygamy and individual liberties on Saturday hailed a federal judge's ruling that key parts of Utah's polygamy laws are unconstitutional, saying it will remove the threat of arrest for those families.

    U.S. District Judge Clark Waddoups said in the decision handed down Friday that a provision in Utah law forbidding cohabitation with another person violated the First Amendment right of freedom of religion.


This ruling has no connection to the theory that you had previously put forth. The judge did not rule either bigamy nor polygamy legal. He just said that the state of Utah can't make people shacking up together who aren't married to each other illegal. You still can't be legally married to more than one person. Using the legalization of gay marriage doesn't seem to be a factor in this case as much as is just the right of the people to keep and overbearing government out of their private business.


whomod said: I generally don't like it when people decide to play by the rules against people who don't play by the rules.
It tends to put you immediately at a disadvantage and IMO is a sign of true weakness.
This is true both in politics and on the internet."

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so are you guys still up for that masked orgy on Friday?

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I usually wait until the orgies before getting it up.


whomod said: I generally don't like it when people decide to play by the rules against people who don't play by the rules.
It tends to put you immediately at a disadvantage and IMO is a sign of true weakness.
This is true both in politics and on the internet."

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UPS did deliver that crate of Viagra to G-man's house late last week, so...


whomod said: I generally don't like it when people decide to play by the rules against people who don't play by the rules.
It tends to put you immediately at a disadvantage and IMO is a sign of true weakness.
This is true both in politics and on the internet."

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he needs that much for one night?

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It's not for him, but his 'companions'.


whomod said: I generally don't like it when people decide to play by the rules against people who don't play by the rules.
It tends to put you immediately at a disadvantage and IMO is a sign of true weakness.
This is true both in politics and on the internet."

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 Originally Posted By: thedoctor
It's not for him, but his 'companions'.


Study find Viagra works for women too

Why, yes, yes it is.

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I refuse to believe that news link until you provide a poll supporting the findings.

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 Originally Posted By: thedoctor
This ruling has no connection to the theory that you had previously put forth.


If you thought it did, would that change your mind?

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 Originally Posted By: Pariah
 Originally Posted By: thedoctor
This ruling has no connection to the theory that you had previously put forth.


If you thought it did, would that change your mind?


Why would I be changing my mind? And from what to what?


whomod said: I generally don't like it when people decide to play by the rules against people who don't play by the rules.
It tends to put you immediately at a disadvantage and IMO is a sign of true weakness.
This is true both in politics and on the internet."

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I still don't get the correlation between the two. Historically and even currently some of the places that have the strongest anti-gay laws are just peachy keen with having multiple wives.


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If the respective implications of both involves changing the parameters of the original format of marriage, then they correlate. I'm sure you have a victim complex, but not all issues relating to a given marriage's antecedents revolve around your feelings of oppression.

 Originally Posted By: thedoctor
Why would I be changing my mind? And from what to what?


From whatever you believe now to whatever you may or may not believe later.

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Looks like you're just trying to fabricate a 'gotcha' moment like G-man attempted. The only thing that I put forth in my comment was that G-man's previous Carnac prediction that the gay marriage issue would be used to allow polygamy didn't pan out in the situation within the article he posted. If I thought that it had, then, naturally I would have an opposite view of what I posted. There's nothing there for you despite you trying to create something.


whomod said: I generally don't like it when people decide to play by the rules against people who don't play by the rules.
It tends to put you immediately at a disadvantage and IMO is a sign of true weakness.
This is true both in politics and on the internet."

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 Originally Posted By: Pariah
If the respective implication of both involves changing the parameters of the original format of marriage, then they correlate. I'm sure you have a victim complex, but not all issues relating to a given marriages antecedents revolve around your feelings of oppression.

...


I'm from MN where there's marriage equality so your victim comment doesn't even apply. Neither is the correlation substantive. As noted places that hate the gays the most can be very friendly with polygamy.


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I don't need to speculate on the accountability of your victimized mentality when you've already offered it up for analysis:



"I'm surrounded by people who want to keep the gay man down!!"


But, once again, you ignored the point: "If the respective implications of both involves changing the parameters of the original format of marriage, then they correlate."

Same-sex marriage: Two of the same gender.

Polygamy: More than two.

That is a substantive change in parameters.

 Originally Posted By: thedoctor
Looks like you're just trying to fabricate a 'gotcha' moment like G-man attempted. The only thing that I put forth in my comment was that G-man's previous Carnac prediction that the gay marriage issue would be used to allow polygamy didn't pan out in the situation within the article he posted. If I thought that it had, then, naturally I would have an opposite view of what I posted. There's nothing there for you despite you trying to create something.


I'm not trying to create anything. You've already alluded to skepticism towards the idea that changing the institution of marriage in one respect won't create precedent for changing it in another. Therefore, the mentality of your post is that it cannot be principally changed by such means. As such, I have doubts that the article would have held any relevance to you whatsoever.

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That's Pariah's point: Opening the door to untraditional forms of marriage (like gay marriage) opens it as well to polygamy.

As well as to legitimizing bestiality, pedophilia, bondage/sadomasochism, etc.

As was detailed back on page 23 of this topic, from articles and editorials in PSYCHOLOGY TODAY.



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 Originally Posted By: thedoctor
Looks like you're just trying to fabricate a 'gotcha' moment like G-man attempted.


 Originally Posted By: Pariah
I'm not trying to create anything. You've already alluded to skepticism towards the idea that changing the institution of marriage in one respect won't create precedent for changing it in another. Therefore, the mentality of your post is that it cannot be principally changed by such means. As such, I have doubts that the article would have held any relevance to you whatsoever.


And there it is. Thank you for being so predictable.


whomod said: I generally don't like it when people decide to play by the rules against people who don't play by the rules.
It tends to put you immediately at a disadvantage and IMO is a sign of true weakness.
This is true both in politics and on the internet."

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By making a valid point?

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 Quote:
Gay couples marry in Utah after judge overturns ban



SALT LAKE CITY - A federal judge struck down Utah's same-sex marriage ban Friday in a decision that brings a nationwide shift toward allowing gay marriage to a conservative state where the Mormon church has long been against it.

The decision set off an immediate frenzy as the clerk in the state's most populous county began issuing marriage licenses to gay couples while state officials took steps to appeal the ruling and halt the process.

Cheers erupted as the mayor of Salt Lake City led one of the state's first gay wedding ceremonies in an office building about three miles from the headquarters of the Mormon church. Dozens of other couples were lined up to get marriage licenses.

Deputy Salt Lake County Clerk Dahnelle Burton-Lee said the district attorney authorized her office to begin issuing the licenses but she couldn't immediately say how many had been issued.
...

cbsnews.com


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And, yet again, the judiciary dictates to the populace.

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The polygamists out there are going to love this

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so are the kiddy fiddlers!




allegedly...


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Actually it seems where there's the most polygamy you also have the most anti-gay laws. Polygamists are more likely to be on your side with being against gays being married.


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 Originally Posted By: thedoctor
 Originally Posted By: the G-man
 Originally Posted By: the G-man

You might recall conservatives fretting that a recognition of gay marriage could soon lead to legalizing polygamy and incest. Those concerns were typically scoffed at by liberals.


Associated Press :
  • Advocacy groups for polygamy and individual liberties on Saturday hailed a federal judge's ruling that key parts of Utah's polygamy laws are unconstitutional, saying it will remove the threat of arrest for those families.

    U.S. District Judge Clark Waddoups said in the decision handed down Friday that a provision in Utah law forbidding cohabitation with another person violated the First Amendment right of freedom of religion.


This ruling has no connection to the theory that you had previously put forth. The judge did not rule either bigamy nor polygamy legal. He just said that the state of Utah can't make people shacking up together who aren't married to each other illegal. You still can't be legally married to more than one person. Using the legalization of gay marriage doesn't seem to be a factor in this case as much as is just the right of the people to keep and overbearing government out of their private business.


JUDGE CITES SAME-SEX MARRIAGE IN DECLARING POLYGAMY BAN UNCONSTITUTIONAL

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 Originally Posted By: Matter-eater Man
Actually it seems where there's the most polygamy you also have the most anti-gay laws. Polygamists are more likely to be on your side with being against gays being married.


I'm not against gay marriage. You know that. My concern has always been today it should be legislatively enacted. You also know that.

It has been noted previously in the mainstream press that polygamists believe that the gay marriage precedents can be used to strike down laws prohibiting bigamy.

As such, there is reason to believe that the polygamists will find this ruling useful as well

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Utah turns to higher court to halt gay marriage

 Quote:
SALT LAKE CITY - Utah state lawyers have again turned to a Denver-based federal appeals court in their bid to put a stop to gay couples getting married, saying the state should not be required to abide by one judge's narrow view of a "new and fundamentally different definition of marriage."

About 700 gay couples have obtained wedding licenses since U.S. District Judge Robert J. Shelby on Friday declared Utah's gay marriage ban unconstitutional, but lawyers for the state are trying every legal avenue to halt the practice. Shelby on Monday denied their bid to temporarily stop gay marriage while the appeals process plays out, and they then quickly went to the 10th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals.

Utah is the 18th state where gay couples can wed, and the sight of same-sex marriages occurring just a few miles from the headquarters of the Mormon church has provoked anger among the state's top leaders.

"Until the final word has been spoken by this Court or the Supreme Court on the constitutionality of Utah's marriage laws, Utah should not be required to enforce Judge Shelby's view of a new and fundamentally different definition of marriage," the state said in a motion to the appeals court.

It is estimated that nearly two-thirds of Utah's 2.8 million residents are members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, and Mormons dominate the state's legal and political circles. The Mormon church was also one of the leading forces behind California's short-lived ban on same-sex marriage.

The legal wrangling over the topic will likely continue for months. The 10th Circuit could rule as soon as Monday evening or Tuesday on whether to temporarily halt the weddings. But the same court likely will hear the full appeal of the case several months from now.

People began lining up Sunday night at the Salt Lake County clerk's office in the hopes of getting licenses amid the uncertainty of the pending ruling by Shelby. Couples then got married once every few minutes in the lobby to the sound of string music from a violin duet.

They anxiously eyed their cellphones for news on Shelby's decision, and a loud cheer erupted once word spread that he wouldn't be blocking weddings. "We feel equal!" one man shouted; his partner called it "this magic happening out of the clear blue."

Adam Blatter said he was in a panic to get married Monday morning before a judge could halt the issuance of licenses. He and his partner, Joseph Chavez, were elated when it became clear their wait was worthwhile, and they were shocked that it was happening in a state long known as one of the most conservative in the country.

"We expected Utah to be the last place we could get married," Blatter said.

Even if the 10th Circuit grants a stay, the marriage licenses that already have been issued probably will remain valid, said Carl Tobias, a constitutional law professor at Virginia's University of Richmond who has tracked legal battles for gay marriage. It's not entirely certain, however, because Utah's situation has unfolded differently than those of other states, and there's no direct precedent, he said.

Not all counties are issuing the licenses. In Utah County, one of the most conservative in the state, County Clerk Brian Thompson made a conscious decision to defy the judge's ruling and not grant marriage licenses to gay and lesbian couples. He said he wants to see if the appeals court grants the stay first.

"I totally understand the position I'm in," he said, "but I have a responsibility as elected official to proceed with caution."

The appeals court already has rejected two previous requests from the state due to procedural issues, but it has not yet considered the case based on merits.

The Mormon church said Friday it stands by its support for "traditional marriage" and hopes a higher court validates its belief that marriage is between a man and woman.

In court Monday, Utah lawyer Philip Lott repeated the words "chaotic situation" to describe what has happened in Utah since clerks started allowing gay weddings. He urged the judge to "take a more orderly approach than the current frenzy."

"Utah should be allowed to follow its democratically chosen definition of marriage," he said of the 2004 gay marriage ban.

In explaining his decision, Shelby said the state made basically the same arguments he had already rejected.

Adding to the chaos is the fact that Utah Attorney General John Swallow stepped down about a month ago amid a scandal involving allegations of bribery and offering businessmen protection in return for favors. The state has been relying on an acting attorney general, and Gov. Gary Herbert appointed a replacement Monday who will serve until a special election next year.

Peggy Tomsic, the lawyer for the same-sex couples who brought the case, called gay marriage the civil rights movement of this generation and said it was the new law of the land in Utah.

"The cloud of confusion that the state talks about is only their minds," she said.

Shelby said in Friday's ruling that the constitutional amendment that Utah voters approved violates gay and lesbian couples' rights to due process and equal protection under the 14th Amendment. He said the state failed to show that allowing same-sex marriages would affect opposite-sex marriages in any way.

Legal scholars speculate that the case could someday be reviewed by the U.S. Supreme Court if the justices decide they want to weigh in on whether state same-sex marriage bans violate the U.S. Constitution.

Tobias said that's a real possibility, but far from imminent. It will depend on what the appeals court decides and what happens with other court challenges in Nevada, Pennsylvania and Virginia, he said.




It sounds to me like this was a coordinated attack on Utah's marriage law. Where a gay rights organization planned to file their opposition to Utah's defined marriage law, while the same organization had hundreds of couples lined up to marry to generate publicity.

It probably was the same in other states, but I just noticed the apparent coordinated method of attack.



There is no purpose for two gay men (or lesbians) to marry, other than to undermine traditional marriage and Christianity. No other reason.

A coordinated attack by Social Marxists, on one of the three pillars of Western culture. (An attack on marriage/the family, the other two pillars being the Christian church, and Western nationalism/government institutions/rule of law).

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The gay marriage issue is just one offensive in a larger movement:

Tactics of the Left





  • from Do Racists have lower IQ's...

    Liberals who bemoan discrimination, intolerance, restraint of Constitutional freedoms, and promotion of hatred toward various abberant minorities, have absolutely no problem with discriminating against, being intolerant of, restricting Constitutional freedoms of, and directing hate-filled scapegoat rhetoric against conservatives.

    EXACTLY what they accuse Republicans/conservatives of doing, is EXACTLY what liberals/Democrats do themselves, to those who oppose their beliefs.
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 Originally Posted By: Wonder Boy
...
There is no purpose for two gay men (or lesbians) to marry, other than to undermine traditional marriage and Christianity. No other reason.

....


They get married for the same reasons other couples get married WB even if you refuse to recognize it.


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Have you ever bothered to consider the precedent by which same-sex couples are motivated to marry, MEM?

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The motivation is usually love just like other couples.


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That's a cultural and ritualistic distinction typically associated with marriage, but it doesn't refer to a function of marriage.

What does this fixation on a cultural aspect of marriage tell you about your--and most other homosexuals'--perception of the institution itself?

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I was just answering the question you posed Pariah.

 Originally Posted By: Pariah
Have you ever bothered to consider the precedent by which same-sex couples are motivated to marry, MEM?


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Uh huh. And you ignored the fact that mutual affection does not necessitate marriage, and thus does not establish its precedent. As such, your answer was incorrect.

In which case: What does this fixation on a cultural aspect of marriage tell you about your--and most other homosexuals'--perception of the institution itself?

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Likes: 52
What does necessitate marriage?


Fair play!
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