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Damnit! There was bickering and I missed it.
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Well, you and I could always have a public arguement, Doc, if it'll help any. As for my not posting regularly: two things. (1.) The play that I'm in is starting up in two weeks, which means that pretty soon we'll be doing costume, makeup, and tech runs, which are uber-time consuming and afford me little time to do much else. And, seeing as how I'm hardly in my room to begin with, as I'm predominantly hanging out with friends and the like, Getting on the boards and reading the stories falls around seventh or eighth on my list of priorities. And, (2.) I'm looking for something to do with Grissom at this point. Right now, he and Priest are building a generator... but then what? When people start coming back to the building to help out with the shelter, then I'll probably write him more, but, for now, he's just in limbo... which, I suppose, is a good thing because I'm so friggin' busy. At any rate, let's save the bickering (petty or otherwise) for the hardcore bitchers like Pro, Danny, TTT, and myself, shall we? I'm sure we'll all feel a lot better that way...
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"Hello? Kettle? You're black......"
Euro, I agree with alot of your points. In fact, this is quite along the lines of what I've been saying for, oh I don't know, forever. If I had to actually pick someone who's tried to act as a continuity-cop, then you're at the top of the list. I don't mean that as an insult, merely a simple observational fact.
But, point taken. Forget my request. Use/abuse the volcanoe at everyone's leisure. I just don't think I'll be back at all. Time to move on, and try new things. Life's too busy.
I've got aLOT of things I want to write about, still. But, I just don't think that the kind of writing I want to do would be compatible with this group anymore. I, like Euro, miss the older style of writing stories where everything was unpredictable, and no one character was more important or obsessed over than any other one. The future was unwritten. Plot lines manifested on the spot and on the fly.
I am just as guilty as anyone else of doing some of the things I rant about. Thus, I feel like I am no longer relevant to this 'next generation'-writing group that's formed.
This isn't one of those 'I'm-mad-and-I'm-never-coming-back' kind of sulled-up things. It's simply the fact that I want to broaden my writing style and format, and simply don't have the freedom to do so here.
So, as usual, I'll still drop in like I am. But, I just don't see ever writing in the stories here again. Maybe I'm wrong. But, probably not.
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Geez... I didn't know so much was going on. I can't say I've noticed any major changes since the retcon... But then again I only started writting a few months before that happened.
So, despite what it looks like, I'm still active. I'm just waiting for Danny to post the follow up to my post he talked about to post again (and I'm not complaining about him taking too long, because now I have to make time to post, so it's fine by me).
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You can do whatever you want, Mxy. I've been too busy all this week, sorry.
Pro's gone. Again? Dagnabbit.
And apparently I'm a hardcore bitcher. And here I was, thinking I was being diplomatic. I've tried not to reserve anything, or impede anyone else... I've got Danny and Hal, and that's it, no particular story things I want to do (except that story me and Chewy have been talking about... I'll have to ask for a little leeway there, seeing that- for the first time in just about ever- I actually know vaguely how it might end)...
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I've been skimming through the current story a bit over the past few days and finding it interesting how the rest of you are writing my character, Chance. Some of you handle him pretty well, although sometimes he's been written very out of character -- that's part for the course in an RPG such as ours, though, so it's understandable. But one or two of the posts featuring Chance seem to reveal its writer's contempt for my character by portraying him like a fool.
So my question to all of you is a simple one. From what you've seen of Chance so far -- and I mean from my posts in the previous two issues, since I haven't participated in the current "issue" (except for one post) -- do you:
A) Like the character Chance and would like to see more of him?
B) Hate Chance and would like the character to die a quick death?
C) Don't care about anyone else's characters except your own?
BTW, I think my last story-post featuring Chance is more angst-ridden than I generally like. If I write any further posts with Chance, they won't be "angst-y" or anything, since that's not what Chance is supposed to be about.
I don't mind if anyone uses Chance further in the story, when the team gets together again and all, but I'd prefer if nobody deals with any of the character-stuff I raised in my post, as I'd like to deal with it myself. Just treat my character with respect is all I ask. [ 11-04-2002, 06:57 AM: Message edited by: TheTimeTrust ]
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Pro, I don't want to use the volcano, you know. Just, coming and saying "the volcano is mine, I will get rid of the UFO if is still there" sounded pretty impolite to me, and brought out the bitch that lies inside me. But what you wrote, is exactly what I was feeeling in the last days. I even tried to begin a round robin story in an italian sci-fi site, but it went down after a few posts. No, there is no place where I want to go, outside this, and I really enjoy the new faces here. But just like Rypta Goud'n and Kristogar Velo were telling-off (is this English or American?) newbies like me or Speedy at the time of me joining, I think that sometime I will have to make some rants. Just don't give me too much attention...
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TTT, GREAT post!
About your question: when you introduced Chance, I was not thrilled. The idea of metage or serum inducing super-luck seemed very out of sinch with the new Universe we created. Plus, Pete was talking with a so strange accent, I knew I would never been able to write him.
But since the exchange of character, I like (love) him a lot. I like the fact that the hero who was the leader, who was respected, who has the love of his beloved one, now has lost everything.
In fact, that the superlucky guy now seems to be the less fortunate.
Now Chance has his destiny in his hand, and has to make choices.
And that is the moment when a character becomes interesting for me.
So, I vote for him remaining. But I don't think you should ask us: the choice is yours, and, even more, his. If he doesn't like what they think of him, it's up to him to have them changing their mind.
And if he wants to be leader like in the other dimension, I think it's up to him to began organizing them. Right now, they seems hoplessy unable to act as a team, not counting the brief moment when Danny had them organized.
There are many ways to have their powers working together to fight the hurricane, or at last tits effects, but they keeps going around alone. [ 11-04-2002, 01:47 PM: Message edited by: The Eurostar ]
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TTT I hope you like my post with your character...this beautifull lady has plans for him. (good...bad? We´ll see )
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TTT, to answer your question...
I personality dislike the character of Chance. This is not a new thing, I disliked him since he was a ghost. And that I let you know a while back.
At first I was confused by Pete but than he began to grow on me. Then just as I started to even like him as a member of the team, out of no where you brough Chance into his place. I think Chance is not needed. I dislike his back story of being from another universe and I think he is the stereotipical he-man/hero type (not that there is any thing wronge with that, I just don't like it IMO).
His powers (just as Pete's speech) is very confusing to write and have him interact. As you see in most of my posts, I shy away from writing him.
Also, the guidelines you put on him (not being able to be hurt, or force used againt him) makes him more powerful than every common/not god-like villain. The team doesn't have to go on mission, they can just use his luck and the mission completes itself.
I would vote to see him die again.
Doctor Q is the character of yours I most enjoy. And I much rather see him have more air time than a character such as Chance.
Just my opinion, don't take anything to heart.
-RS
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T5 - nice! Very classy way of following up on my post. You've certainly got my interest.
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quote: Supposedly posted by GoozX: Also, the guidelines you put on him (not being able to be hurt, or force used againt him) makes him more powerful than every common/not god-like villain. The team doesn't have to go on mission, they can just use his luck and the mission completes itself.
I have a feeling I'm going to have to explain this misunderstanding of the characters "powers" time and time again...
Chance's only power is self-preservation. that's it. His so-called "luck powers" only serve to help him survive against all odds. He CAN'T control them in order to help anyone else or transfer his "luckiness" to anyone. Your statement: "...they can just use his luck and the mission completes itself" isn't correct in the least. It only means that Chance won't personally be hurt physically by anything. This doesn't make him omnipotent or anything like that, since he still doesn't have anything beyond his own human abilities to help anyone else. And he can't defeat everyone he fights, either, unless they're stupid enough to keep fighting him despite the fact that all force used upon him is returned to its source. Any "villain" with the tiniest bit of intelligence could find ways to succeed in whatever "villainous plan" he wanted to without having to attack him directly. Chance isn't "all-powerful" in the least, and I have never portrayed him that way. He just can't be hurt -- that's his ONLY power... and I don't think it's any less reasonable than any other characters' powers, since, as I've shown, there are so many drawbacks to his "power" that it sometimes feels to him like a curse.
I realise he's not everyone's cup o' tea, just as I don't care for some of the dark, ultra-violent characters that have appeared in recent stories. I've always thought it ludicrous that Kit Piper, let alone the team itself, would accept them as members. But what's done is done.
The problem with having a team full of social misfits is that -- unless there are a few "straight-men" to "glue" them together -- this group of misfits isn't ever going to be a team. That's why I created Chance. He's NOT an angst-y character, though there are RARE times when he takes it all on himself as recently shown.
Chance is supposed to be cut from the same cloth as Doc Savage and other classic hero types. He's not from the "Marvel Comics" tradition of the "hero riddled with problems" but from the classic hero tradition who does the right thing because it's the right thing to do (almost the opposite of Pete). As such, he's more challenging to write, since I've never written any other characters like him before. He's a mature character whose adolescent pimple-squishing days are behind him, and as such he's supposed to act like an adult, not a member of the X-Men or the Teen Titans. If Chance had any kind of theme or motto, it would be: "The Burden of Responsibility."
I basically spelled all this out about my character so that the rest of you can write him the way he should be written. And of course I'll continue to try to do the same for all of the other characters. Each character should be written "in-character" based on what the character's creator has done with him. [ 11-04-2002, 08:08 PM: Message edited by: TheTimeTrust ]
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quote: Originally posted by Doctor Klone: Pro, I don't want to use the volcano, you know. Just, coming and saying "the volcano is mine, I will get rid of the UFO if is still there" sounded pretty impolite to me, and brought out the bitch that lies inside me.
It's unfortunate that you took offense at my plans. If I'm not mistaken, I think I already told you about my plans for the volcanoe way back when I brought Turkish in. Perhaps I didn't. Either way, it's a moot point now.
But just like Rypta Goud'n and Kristogar Velo were telling-off (is this English or American?) newbies like me or Speedy at the time of me joining, I think that sometime I will have to make some rants.
I assume the 'newbie' status doesn't apply to me? But, hey, if anyone can understand the need to rant, it's the third personality in the back of my head.
Just don't give me too much attention...
Do I ever?
Dann-o-riffic : Finished writing? Yeah, probably. I mean, I have a million ideas of things I'd like to write. But, I either don't have the time to craft it together, or I don't think I could pull it off in a diplomatic way with the rest of the writers here. I'd end up writing a line that was out-of-character for someone, and all hell would break loose. But, I'll still be around the Talk Threads (Ha! Can't get rid of me that easy!)
As for Chance/Pete, and any of the other characters, let me give you a gist of how I would write them/see them.
- Danny : The character in this universe seems to be a more mature, if not adult, version of the TOMB character. He has this almost Dick Grayson-like earnestness about him that plays well within serious situations. But, it's his natural honesty that exudes the leadership qualities that everyone sees. Everyone except himself. He's too busy being the first to notice the sky falling, while everyone else makes jokes....
- Grimm : Imagine if The Thing had been created during the 90's angst-grunge-goth-metal days. Imagine if The Thing was really the Avatar of Death on two legs. Imagine is The Thing scared the absolute shit out of you just by being in the same room. Not unkind. Not heroic. He just is what he is. Grimm's like a breathing shadow, or an icy breeze, lulling just out of the corner of your eye with an odd silence. Speeding down a rainy freeway at 210mph in the darkness, he's that face you make a split-second before you collide with semi....
- Dirk Bell : Take Guy Gardners' testicles, mix them with Eastwood's stare, add a dash of Frank Castle's gun powder fetish, Connor Hawke's accuracy, and top it all off with Bruce Campbell's bravado, and you come to Dirk Bell when he's unconscious. Awake, he's the guy in the center of a party that attracts all the women, and makes all the men wet their pants. And, yet, when all's quiet, he's actually someone you can end up talking to about your problems. Of course, he's going to laugh at you for being such a wussy.....
- Chance : He's Captain America without the patriotism. Any "luck powers" aside, he's got the focus and fortitude to know where the eye of the storm is when chaos erupts. And, according to himself, he always has an answer for any situation. Not so much arrogant, however, as he just believes that he is right. Such mild narcissitic delusions are always an asset to the team, as it is the team his boundless energy and enthusiasm are always striving to protect. And where Danny is reluctantly pushed to be the leader of the ensemble, Chance actively believes that he is the perfect man for the job. If only they would just listen to him.....
- Mick/Mxy : Mick Harrison is a very tired, very sad Bruce Banner. A normal life is forever denied him, as he must always share it with his alter-godhood. Mxy is a very energetic, very happy neo-deity. A being that enjoys shunting and crunching his overall presence down into a simple fourth-dimensional linear existence. Why? Who can tell. That would be like asking water why it is wet. Or asking nature why it abhors a vacuum. Mxy simply is. And if Mick's the kind of guy that has a hard time smiling, then Mxy is the kind of guy that has a hard time not making rain drops bounce like rubber at his mere presence. Mick eats sandwiches. Mxy eats old forgotten dreams. Mick enjoys beer. Mxy enjoys surfing the last gasps of light from dying stars.....
As for the rest, you are either new, or have created new characters, and, as such, I haven't a handle on what I see in them. But, that's just my personal bible on how I interpret them. And, may I point out, I have never, ever written any characters in this fanfic (TOMB or otherwise) with their writers in mind. In other words, I have never associated my characters (Pro/Turk/Mal/etc.) with myself in any real way. Yeah, Pro's got my nicotine habit, baldness, and addiction to females and wine, but, other than that, I've never written him like "me", as other have said that they did with their characters. That's just one fo those things that I never understood, really. Why limit the character to being defined by your personal viewpoint on yourself? I mean, it's ALWAYS going to be skewed, isn't it? That is, unless you, as a person, are well aware of your own limitations and strengths, and aren't afraid to admit either.
So, really, my point is, not every character can be equal in all respects. Some characters will fall in a fight faster than others. Some will be quicker in thought than others. Some are heroes. Some are anti-heroes. And, to get even more detailed, their individual personalities may not always mesh with the rest. Just because a character is an asshole to the others does not neccessarily mean that the writer is trying to get across some personal vendetta or motive. That was one of the experiments I tried with Dagwood Foreman/The 4th Man. He was belligerent, aggressive, and made considerable fun of the other characters. And, sure enough, at least three or more writers went full speed ahead in writing a post where they kick Foreman's ass. It was terribly amusing, as it showed me who had dominance-issues, and/or, who invested emotions in their characters so deeply that they felt threatened when one character insulted their own.
So, that's my buck-forty-five for the night. There's a quiz later. :)
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quote: Originally posted by TheTimeTrust: I have a feeling I'm going to have to explain this misunderstanding of the characters "powers" time and time again...
The problem with that is, TTT, that you really haven't taken the time to explain Chance's powers. You've been pretty vague about it from the beginning. On top of that, you've kept talking about changing them ever since you introduced the character. The real problem most of us are having with him is not knowing what he can do.
In your introduction of the character in his bio you say that he doesn't like using his power, making many of us think that he has control over it. Then you come out and say that he doesn't have control and it's just always there. Now you're saying that his power is limited to just him and can bring bad luck to those around him. You keep adding new things to Chance and get upset that we don't know about them, or are just so brief in your discussion of them that many questions arise as to what the powers can do. That means that we are left to interpret them on our own and are put into a situation of misusing the character.
I'm also glad to see that you put more effort into your last story post than your previous. If you didn't want Chance in the action, that's cool. He's your character and you're free to use him as you want. I think a lot of us were insulted that you didn't put forth any effort into bringing him out in a sensible way. After all, what does it say about your character when he leaves people to die in a hurricane to read a book? We're all putting forth a great effort to do this story. Continuity has been shot to hell more than once in it, but no one really seems to care because we just ignore it and continue going. Everyone seems to be having a good time with it but you. It just hurts when everyone seems to be doing his best and one person comes in with a one line post that has no work at all put into it to simply have his character exit.
Your last post had some thought into it. You did exactly what I was hoping you would do by having Chance reply to Dirk's asshole remarks. That's why I did it. I wanted to try and give you a reason to participate and something to work off of. How would people react to my posts if my only style was, "Dirk beats some dudes up. Then he goes home,"? We're not looking for Pulitzer material here. Especially since none of us are anywhere near it. But I like to read posts that a little bit of thought went into. I think that's all most of us are looking for. [ 11-05-2002, 12:23 AM: Message edited by: thedoctor ]
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It's always amusing to me to see how other people perceive a character I created. In my defense, I've written Chance in a consistent way since his return to the living, but I neglected to make him clear on the talk threads, though I know I discussed the limits of Chance's "power" several times during the periodic chats ever since I re-introduced the character. Anyways, I spelled my character out very well in my last post, so use that as a reference. Any other questions about Chance I'm more than willing to answer here or in a PM or something. quote: Supposedly posted by thedoctor: I'm also glad to see that you put more effort into your last story post than your previous. If you didn't want Chance in the action, that's cool. He's your character and you're free to use him as you want. I think a lot of us were insulted that you didn't put forth any effort into bringing him out in a sensible way. After all, what does it say about your character when he leaves people to die in a hurricane to read a book? We're all putting forth a great effort to do this story. Continuity has been shot to hell more than once in it, but no one really seems to care because we just ignore it and continue going. Everyone seems to be having a good time with it but you. It just hurts when everyone seems to be doing his best and one person comes in with a one line post that has no work at all put into it to simply have his character exit.
I dunno whether it's because there are some difference between Canadian humour and American humor, but the tongue-in-cheek-iness of my one-line post should have been a HUGE tip-off...
For anyone who didn't see it, it went as follows:
**********
Chance suddenly forgot why he was in this story and went home to read a book. [ 11-05-2002, 01:36 AM: Message edited by: TheTimeTrust ]
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Pro, about you asking to reserve the volcano long ago, I didn't knew, or if I knew, I really forgot it COMPLETELY (ehy, I am really old, what do you think?), otherwise I wouldn't have placed the UFO inside, and I would have felt offendend by your remark (which, by the way, was the thing about ridding off the ufo, not the reserving of the volcano). What you have written clearly shows the love you have for most characters and the whole Universe, so I hope you don't stay away FROM THE STORY. About the thing of writing character like himself (I thing that I ever state), I want to explain why: first because I wouldn't be able to do it in a different manner and second because for me is the play the most important thing, is the dream of being someone with powers. I am a child at heart, and I am happy with it.
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quote: Originally posted by The Eurostar: Pro, about you asking to reserve the volcano long ago, I didn't knew, or if I knew, I really forgot it COMPLETELY (ehy, I am really old, what do you think?), otherwise I wouldn't have placed the UFO inside, and I would have felt offendend by your remark (which, by the way, was the thing about ridding off the ufo, not the reserving of the volcano).
Hey, you're old, I'm bald. Together we're Strom Thurman.... :)
What you have written clearly shows the love you have for most characters and the whole Universe, so I hope you don't stay away FROM THE STORY.
I just really can't say. If I say that I'm gone forever, Chewy will say "suuuure", and I'll have to eat that "suuuure" when I return. If I say that I'll come back, Dan will give me the finger when I don't. Rock and a hard place. Better yet, rock and an annoyed Aussie......
About the thing of writing character like himself (I thing that I ever state), I want to explain why: first because I wouldn't be able to do it in a different manner and second because for me is the play the most important thing, is the dream of being someone with powers. I am a child at heart, and I am happy with it.
Whatever floats your boat. But, the thing is, if you all, as writers, like each other, and you all write your characters like yourselves, then all the characters will like each other, too. Thus, you get a boring ensemble of cardboard characters. I like diversity. I like 'different', you know? That's why I enjoy Dirk Bell, and why I enjoyed Dagwood Foreman. Bell and Foreman are as different in personality and social skills with everyone around them, as they are with each other.
Now, no one get their panties in a wad and think that I am talking about Foreman and Bell exclusively. I can recognize differences in everyone's character. But, really, those two have been the most adversarial in their abrasiveness. Grimm, the only other one that I would automatically associate with anti-hero-istic sentiments, is not so much abrasive or adversarial, as he is just disturbingly imposing.
But, I mean, everyone should find their niche' in the team. TOMB, for example, was so diversified in personality and abilitiy, it was almost impossible for each character to NOT have their own niche. Chewy was the scientist/Reed Richards/father-figure-leader. Rypta-Dan was the stoic/Alan Scott/powerhouse-second-in-command. Bibbo was the soldier; determined, honest, loyal, and true. The Time Tryst-Trust was the Data/Time Lord, always striving to find humanity, but never in a cliched fashion. Joker1 was The Creeper/child-like innocence of the group. Nemo was the philosopher; a man passionately driven by his beliefs and ideals. Prometheus was the ex-godling, tortured by his inability to be free from his destiny, reborn over and over to live that pain. Etc., etc.
And that's the point. Not every member will be the badass that faces down the toughest enemy EVERY time. Not everyone has to have such a myriad and complex detailing of every facet of their lives BEFORE they even begin writing the character. Not everyone has to be equal in every situation. For example, I made sure that, while Prometheus could out-think most enemies, he would ALWAYS get his ass handed to him in a physical fight (barring a plot point that was believable and justified). So, like, Grimm is slower physically than others. And he's not going to be quoting poetry. But, by Gob, if he starts moving, it's Cain Marko-style. Mxy is power incarnate. He could burp a dimensional plane into existence inside a lightbulb. But, really, isn't he just to busy being fascinated with us simple creatures to even bother?
So, again, just my perspective. I know this is long. But, it's a rainy day and I'm taking the day off from classes. Sue me. :)
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Hey, Pro, I was just wondering what your take was on my character. I know Phil hasn't been around for a very long time, but I am hoping you can make an adequate value judgment and give me some observations and maybe suggestions. I am planning some major character development (with the help of my second character) once the whole hurricane bit is over. I would like to know what you think. Thanks! :) P.S.: I would really hate to see you leave. Not trying to manipulate you or anything. [ 11-05-2002, 01:07 PM: Message edited by: Captain Sammitch ]
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quote: Originally posted by TheTimeTrust: I dunno whether it's because there are some difference between Canadian humour and American humor,...
Yeah. American humor is funny. :lol:
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quote: Originally posted by Danny: You can do whatever you want, Mxy. I've been too busy all this week, sorry.
I've been busy too, so that works well. I'd make time to post if it was urgent, but since we have both our characters in a small "limbo", and you say you have a good idea, I have no problem with waiting...
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Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 33,920
devil-lovin' Bat-Man 15000+ posts
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devil-lovin' Bat-Man 15000+ posts
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 33,920 |
quote: Originally posted by Prometheus: Mick/Mxy : Mick Harrison is a very tired, very sad Bruce Banner. A normal life is forever denied him, as he must always share it with his alter-godhood. Mxy is a very energetic, very happy neo-deity. A being that enjoys shunting and crunching his overall presence down into a simple fourth-dimensional linear existence. Why? Who can tell. That would be like asking water why it is wet. Or asking nature why it abhors a vacuum. Mxy simply is. And if Mick's the kind of guy that has a hard time smiling, then Mxy is the kind of guy that has a hard time not making rain drops bounce like rubber at his mere presence. Mick eats sandwiches. Mxy eats old forgotten dreams. Mick enjoys beer. Mxy enjoys surfing the last gasps of light from dying stars.....
I should be taking notes! I've always thought you understand Mxy better than I do... The only discrepancy I have is about Mick: I don't see him as a sad and tired guy. He's more like an incredibly lazy long haired dude with bad nutritional habits. He's no hero, he'd pee himself if he knew the things Mxy fights using his body. He gets angry sometimes, but because of his bad short term memory he forgets about it soon enough.
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Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 19,546 Likes: 1
living in 1962 15000+ posts
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living in 1962 15000+ posts
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 19,546 Likes: 1 |
The attack starts tonight. You have been warned.
Wulf, get yer ass in here!
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Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 88
25+ posts
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ok I'm back after almost a month and have posted to bring every one up to date on some things that where happening in the back ground . so Gooz When your ready let it Ripp.
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Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 19,546 Likes: 1
living in 1962 15000+ posts
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living in 1962 15000+ posts
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 19,546 Likes: 1 |
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Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 980
500+ posts
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500+ posts
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Grimm, Chewy, great stuff guys!
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Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 1,217
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Let´s see Chance talk his way out of this one hehehe
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Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 88
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Hay doc Great post but, Wes isnt a Flesh Vasmp he's a Pale (So the Consumption of fire wont work And he has no fangs .)sorry if i didnt make that clearer . but hay you never can tell with these tricky Vamps any way now can ya... gonna have a post Ready by late this afternoon. (i hope.)
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Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 24,593
Timelord. Drunkard. 15000+ posts
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Timelord. Drunkard. 15000+ posts
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 24,593 |
Yeah, I know. He's a reverse vampire. He craves the sunlight. He comes from Tansylvania. See those threads. They're the markings.
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Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 4,948
4000+ posts
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4000+ posts
Joined: Aug 2001
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Mxy- I kinda tied up our little thing. Sorta. Feel free to add to it if you want.
And Pro's right. I'd have to kick his arse if he pulled that crap.
PS: Six moderators is bloody ridiculous.
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