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Quote:
Beardguy57 said:
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sneaky bunny said:
What's the problem?
allow people equal right to civil unions or what not!
call it cheese or fartanism for all i care!
let the church decide on what is and whom shall be married!
No, there ought to be seperation of church and state.
There'd still be a seperation by allowing everyone a union of sorts and leaving the definition and allowance of marriage to the church.
And, to be fair, one of my favorite friends there is blind and I take every opportunity available to make fun of that and we're still friends. That guy never fit there. He never got the spirit of the RKMBs. We're gonna keep an eye on the obits, see if he finally left or if he really did have a heart attack.
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That's not even really up for debate anymore, since "marriage" is just an unoffical co-sign for "civil union" to the gay community.
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Quote:
sneaky bunny said:
Quote:
Beardguy57 said:
Quote:
sneaky bunny said:
What's the problem?
allow people equal right to civil unions or what not!
call it cheese or fartanism for all i care!
let the church decide on what is and whom shall be married!
No, there ought to be seperation of church and state.
There'd still be a seperation by allowing everyone a union of sorts and leaving the definition and allowance of marriage to the church.
Sneaky, my problem with that really is this: No matter what gains Gays get in terms of rights... they can always be taken away again. It all boils down to :
A ) That ONE damn line in the bible.
B ) Money.
"I offer you a Vulcan prayer, Mr Suder. May your death bring you the peace you never found in life." - Tuvok. 
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Quote:
Beardguy57 said:
Sneaky, my problem with that really is this: No matter what gains Gays get in terms of rights... they can always be taken away again. It all boils down to :
A ) That ONE damn line in the bible.
B ) Money.
First of all: It's not "one damn line."
Second of all: You have just as much rights as a straight person (please bare in mind that marriage is not a right).
Third of all: I don't recall any of the court sessions or senate referendums in which the Bible was used as a factor.
Finally: What the hell does money have to do with anything aside from your childish attempt at sounding counter-culture?
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Quote:
Pariah said:
Quote:
Beardguy57 said:
Sneaky, my problem with that really is this: No matter what gains Gays get in terms of rights... they can always be taken away again. It all boils down to :
A ) That ONE damn line in the bible.
B ) Money.
First of all: It's not "one damn line."
Second of all: You have just as much rights as a straight person (please bare in mind that marriage is not a right).
Third of all: I don't recall any of the court sessions or senate referendums in which the Bible was used as a factor.
Finally: What the hell does money have to do with anything aside from your childish attempt at sounding counter-culture?
First : It is MAINLY that " damn line."
Second : If Marriage is not a right, what is it, then?
Third : If The Bible is not used as a factor, then why are so many Christians and Catholics against Gay marriage, then?
Fourth : As I stated before, nearly all politicians are going to vote against gay marriage because they either got elected by taking a stance against gay marriage, or they know that if they campaign for it, they will damage their political career. Or end it.
Thus, Money comes into play.. Politicians love their big paychecks and the good life it brings, and thus, they do not want to give it up by voting for something that could cause their political career harm.
"I offer you a Vulcan prayer, Mr Suder. May your death bring you the peace you never found in life." - Tuvok.
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Quote:
Beardguy57 said:
First : It is MAINLY that " damn line."
I'm going to leave that alone as we're discussing the legality of Gay Marraige not weather or not it's a Biblical principle.
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Second : If Marriage is not a right, what is it, then?
It's a governmentally recognised contract with restrictions.
If marraige were a human right then no restrictions could be placed on it, people could marry relitives or multiple partners. I'm not arguing that being gay is the same as incest or polygimy, I'm using those as examples of reasonable restrictions that are placed on the contract. What you're arguing for isn't that marraige be recognised as a human right with no restrictions, but rather that same sex unions be lifted as a restriction.
If I'm wrong and you are argunign that all restrictions be lifted, please correct me.
Quote:
Third : If The Bible is not used as a factor, then why are so many Christians and Catholics against Gay marriage, then?
that's a false argument, but that logic the fact that most Christians and Catholics enjoy ice cream would make the Bible a factor in the decicion to enjoy ice cream. Having said that, the Bible may be a factor in some people voting the way they do, but the point the P was making is that the Bible is not cited in the laws that are written. There are people who believe the Bible that think government restrctions should be lifted for same sex marraige and there are people who do not believe the Bible who oppose same sex marraige.
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Fourth : As I stated before, nearly all politicians are going to vote against gay marriage because they either got elected by taking a stance against gay marriage, or they know that if they campaign for it, they will damage their political career. Or end it.
regardless of weather or not you agree what you just described is polititions being responsible to those who elected them to vote for thier intrests. That's representitive government.
Putting the "fun" back in Fundamentalist Christian Dogma.
" I know God exists because WBAM told me so. " - theory9
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Quote:
wannabuyamonkey said:
If marraige were a human right then no restrictions could be placed on it, people could marry relitives or multiple partners. I'm not arguing that being gay is the same as incest or polygimy, I'm using those as examples of reasonable restrictions that are placed on the contract. What you're arguing for isn't that marraige be recognised as a human right with no restrictions, but rather that same sex unions be lifted as a restriction.
If I'm wrong and you are argunign that all restrictions be lifted, please correct me.
Yes, that is it right there.
That same sex unions be lifted as a restriction.
That is what I want.
"I offer you a Vulcan prayer, Mr Suder. May your death bring you the peace you never found in life." - Tuvok.
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Quote:
Beardguy57 said:
First : It is MAINLY that " damn line."
And yuou can't even prove that.
Quote:
Second : If Marriage is not a right, what is it, then?
It is an organizational technique used by the government to better regulate and stabalize the population growth of the state(s) and country's inhabitants. It just so happens that this particular technique only works if it involves two sexually compatible individuals.
Quote:
Third : If The Bible is not used as a factor, then why are so many Christians and Catholics against Gay marriage, then?
We're speaking secularly. Not religiously. You can't prove that the Senate kept faith in mind when they came to a voting decision. The arguments against gay marriage span farther than things from the Bible.
Quote:
Fourth : As I stated before, nearly all politicians are going to vote against gay marriage because they either got elected by taking a stance against gay marriage, or they know that if they campaign for it, they will damage their political career. Or end it.
Thus, Money comes into play.. Politicians love their big paychecks and the good life it brings, and thus, they do not want to give it up by voting for something that could cause their political career harm.
Money's the Bottom Line of any situation, why make a problem out of it for this particular argument?
Additionally, Wanna is correct in defining this situation as representative government.
Last edited by Pariah; 2006-11-20 6:49 AM.
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Mass. Governor Wants Gay Wedding Vote
By DAVID WEBER, Associated Press Writer
Mon Nov 20, 4:34 AM
BOSTON - Gov. Mitt Romney said Sunday he would ask the state's highest court to order an anti-gay marriage amendment question onto the ballot if legislators fail to vote on the matter when they reconvene in January.
Romney said he would file a legal action this week asking a justice of the Supreme Judicial Court to direct the secretary of state to place the question on the ballot if lawmakers don't vote directly on the question Jan. 2, the final day of the session.
Romney, an opponent of gay marriage who decided not to seek re-election as he considers running for president, made his announcement to the cheers of hundreds of gay marriage opponents at a rally on the Statehouse steps.
People in favor of gay marriage staged a protest across the street.
The Massachusetts Supreme Judicial Court ruled in November 2003 that such marriages were legal. Since then, more than 8,000 same-sex couples have tied the knot in the state.
More than 170,000 people had signed a petition in support of the ballot question, which would define marriage as between only a man and a woman.
Romney has criticized lawmakers since they refused earlier this month to take up the question during a joint session, voting instead to recess until Jan. 2 and all but killing the measure.
"A decision not to vote is a decision to usurp the Constitution, to abandon democracy and substitute a form of what this nation's founders called tyranny, that is, the imposition of the will of those in power, on the people," Romney said earlier. "The issue now before us is not whether same-sex couples should marry. The issue before us today is whether 109 legislators will follow the Constitution."
Because the Legislature is in recess and did not adjourn, Romney has no legal authority to call lawmakers back into session.
Supporters of gay marriage defended lawmakers' procedural move.
"One of the tenets of the Constitution is that you do not put the rights of a minority up for a popularity contest," said Mark Solomon, campaign director of Mass Equality, a pro-gay marriage group. "It is one of the very principles this country was founded upon."
Messages seeking comment from legislative leaders were not immediately returned Sunday.
The Legislature grappled with various efforts to ban same-sex marriages even before the high court ruling in 2003. Lawmakers refused to vote on a citizens' initiative in 2002, and two years later voted down their own proposed amendment that would have banned gay marriage and legalized civil unions.
In the November elections, amendments to ban gay marriage passed in Colorado, Idaho, South Carolina, South Dakota, Tennessee, Virginia and Wisconsin. Only Arizona defeated such an amendment.
Vermont and Connecticut have legalized civil unions that give same-sex couples benefits similar to marriage. New Jersey's highest court has ordered the Legislature to allow either marriage or civil unions for same-sex couples.
"I offer you a Vulcan prayer, Mr Suder. May your death bring you the peace you never found in life." - Tuvok.
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Quote:
Beardguy57 said:
I'm afraid I'd have to be extremely long lived, like my "Grampa" character...
You were on "the Munsters"?
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Quote:
the G-man said:
Quote:
Beardguy57 said:
I'm afraid I'd have to be extremely long lived, like my "Grampa" character...
You were on "the Munsters"?
 Grampa is a character that I write about. He is 35,000 years old and has super powers.
"I offer you a Vulcan prayer, Mr Suder. May your death bring you the peace you never found in life." - Tuvok.
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Grampa on the Munsters was centuries old and had superpowers
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MY Grampa started off his life as the younger son of the chief of his Cro - Magnon tribe during a brutal ice age where survival was a 24/7 thing. It was a primitive world. He hunted mammoths and was known for being the best hunter in his tribe.
When I write his complete origin, which I will do sometime hopefully in the near future, I will let you know about it.
"I offer you a Vulcan prayer, Mr Suder. May your death bring you the peace you never found in life." - Tuvok.
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Fair Play! 15000+ posts
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Quote:
Beardguy57 said:
Quote:
Matter-eater Man said:
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Beardguy57 said:
Not from a certain point of view... mine.
Mine too. The only good thing is the GOP didn't get their people in along with these ballot initiatives.
BTW, me & the boyfriend have recently passed year 16 of being married in the real sense of the word.
Congrats, MEM!! That's terrific! 
Thanks BG!
Fair play!
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Quote:
Beardguy57 said:
MY Grampa started off his life as the younger son of the chief of his Cro - Magnon tribe during a brutal ice age where survival was a 24/7 thing. It was a primitive world. He hunted mammoths and was known for being the best hunter in his tribe.
When I write his complete origin, which I will do sometime hopefully in the near future, I will let you know about it.
Read out of context, I sriously thought you'd gone completely nutbar here for a second...hahaha.
If karma's a bitch, it will be my bitch!
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Quote:
Pariah said:
We're speaking secularly. Not religiously. You can't prove that the Senate kept faith in mind when they came to a voting decision. The arguments against gay marriage span farther than things from the Bible.
As much as I disagree with Mr. Beardguy's whole tact here...this is the only issue here. It is religious 'morality' that stands between homosexuality and the rest of the population. Nothing more. There is no other reasoning to deprive a group of people the same opportunity to fuck up commitments to eachother and exist on par with every other couple.
I'm not saying it's an irrelevant hurdle (I've realized far too much as of late), but it is the only one standing between equal rights. There are no other motivations behind people opposing gay marriage (and subsequent divorce) than those rooted in faith. Anything else brought to the table is merely an extension of religious adherence, and faulty at best.
If karma's a bitch, it will be my bitch!
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Quote:
klinton said:
Quote:
Beardguy57 said:
MY Grampa started off his life as the younger son of the chief of his Cro - Magnon tribe during a brutal ice age where survival was a 24/7 thing. It was a primitive world. He hunted mammoths and was known for being the best hunter in his tribe.
When I write his complete origin, which I will do sometime hopefully in the near future, I will let you know about it.
Read out of context, I sriously thought you'd gone completely nutbar here for a second...hahaha.
It is cool.
"I offer you a Vulcan prayer, Mr Suder. May your death bring you the peace you never found in life." - Tuvok.
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Quote:
klinton said:
Quote:
Pariah said:
We're speaking secularly. Not religiously. You can't prove that the Senate kept faith in mind when they came to a voting decision. The arguments against gay marriage span farther than things from the Bible.
As much as I disagree with Mr. Beardguy's whole tact here...this is the only issue here. It is religious 'morality' that stands between homosexuality and the rest of the population. Nothing more. There is no other reasoning to deprive a group of people the same opportunity to fuck up commitments to eachother and exist on par with every other couple.
I'm not saying it's an irrelevant hurdle (I've realized far too much as of late), but it is the only one standing between equal rights. There are no other motivations behind people opposing gay marriage (and subsequent divorce) than those rooted in faith. Anything else brought to the table is merely an extension of religious adherence, and faulty at best.
"I offer you a Vulcan prayer, Mr Suder. May your death bring you the peace you never found in life." - Tuvok.
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Gay R.I. Couple Files for Divorce
By RAY HENRY, Associated Press Writer
54 minutes ago
PROVIDENCE, R.I. - A lesbian couple married in Massachusetts has filed for divorce in Rhode Island, setting up a legal conundrum for judges in a state where the laws are silent on the legality of same-sex marriage.
Margaret Chambers and Cassandra Ormiston of Providence were married after the Massachusetts Supreme Judicial Court legalized gay marriage starting in 2004.
They filed for divorce in Rhode Island on Oct. 23, citing irreconcilable differences, Chambers' attorney, Louis Pulner, said Wednesday. Ormiston declined to comment.
Rhode Island Family Court Chief Judge Jeremiah Jeremiah Jr. has yet to decide whether his court has jurisdiction and said he believes it is the first filing for a same-sex divorce in the state. A preliminary hearing was scheduled for Dec. 5.
Massachusetts became the only state to allow same-sex couples to marry after the state Supreme Court ruled it was unconstitutional to ban it.
Until recently, though, it was up in the air whether out-of-state couples could marry in Massachusetts. In September, a Massachusetts judge decided that nothing in Rhode Island law specifically banned gay marriage and said Rhode Island couples could legally marry there.
"Now the ultimate question is whether the state will recognize or determine whether it has jurisdiction to handle an out-of-state divorce when we don't have any case law that accepts or rejects same-sex marriage," Pulner said.
Rhode Island Attorney General Patrick Lynch said it is up to the courts and legislature to decide whether the state recognizes same-sex unions.
Courts nationwide could soon find themselves facing similar dilemmas, especially as more and more same-sex couples are married in Massachusetts, said Janet Halley, a professor at Harvard Law School who researches the topic. Marital status could potentially become an issue in insurance, benefit, child custody and property cases, among others.
Massachusetts is the only state that allows gay marriage. New Jersey's high court ruled in October that the state must offer gay couples the same rights as married couples, but it left it to lawmakers to decide by April whether to call the unions "marriages."
Two other states have civil unions that extend marriage-like rights to same-sex couples _ Vermont in accordance with a court order and Connecticut through a vote of its legislature.
In Connecticut, attorneys for eight gay couples filed an appeal Wednesday with the Supreme Court in a case arguing that the 2005 decision there to legalize same-sex civil unions rather than marriage violates the couples' basic constitutional rights. The lawsuit, dismissed by a lower court in March, says civil unions are inferior in status to marriage.
___
Associated Press Writer Stephanie Reitz in Hartford, Conn., contributed to this report.
"I offer you a Vulcan prayer, Mr Suder. May your death bring you the peace you never found in life." - Tuvok.
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Gov to judges: Put gay marriage to a voteSidestepping state lawmakers as he runs to the right for the White House, Gov. Mitt Romney is calling on the state’s highest court to force a 2008 vote on gay marriage.
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Groups Mixed on Mary Cheney's Pregnancy
By DAVID CRARY, AP National Writer
4 hours ago
NEW YORK - Conservative leaders voiced dismay Wednesday at news that Mary Cheney, the lesbian daughter of Dick Cheney, is pregnant, while a gay-rights group said the vice president faces "a lifetime of sleepless nights" for serving in an administration that has opposed recognition of same-sex couples.
Mary Cheney, 37, and her partner of 15 years, Heather Poe, 45, are expecting a baby in late spring, said Lea Anne McBride, a spokeswoman for the vice president.
"The vice president and Mrs. Cheney are looking forward with eager anticipation" to the arrival of their sixth grandchild, McBride said.
Mary Cheney was an aide to her father during the 2004 campaign, and now is vice president for consumer advocacy at AOL. She and Poe moved from Colorado to Virginia a year ago to be closer to the Cheney family.
Family Pride, which advocates on behalf of gay and lesbian families, noted that Virginia last month became one of 27 states with a constitutional amendment banning same-sex marriage.
"Unless they move to a handful of less restrictive states, Heather will never be able to have a legal relationship with her child," said Family Pride executive director Jennifer Chrisler.
The couple "will quickly face the reality that no matter how loved their child will be. ... he or she will never have the same protections that other children born to heterosexual couples enjoy," Chrisler said. "Grandfather Cheney will no doubt face a lifetime of sleepless nights as he reflects on the irreparable harm he and his administration have done to the millions of American gay and lesbian parents and their children."
For years, Mary Cheney's openness about her sexual orientation had posed a dilemma for conservative activists who admire Dick Cheney's stance on many issues but consider homosexuality a sin.
Janice Crouse of Concerned Women for America described the pregnancy as "unconscionable."
"It's very disappointing that a celebrity couple like this would deliberately bring into the world a child that will never have a father," said Crouse, a senior fellow at the group's think tank. "They are encouraging people who don't have the advantages they have."
Crouse said there was no doubt that the news would, in conservatives' eyes, be damaging to the Bush administration, which already has been chided by some leaders on the right for what they felt was halfhearted commitment to anti-abortion and anti-gay-rights causes in this year's general election.
Carrie Gordon Earll, a policy analyst for the conservative Christian ministry Focus on the Family, expressed empathy for the Cheney family but depicted the newly announced pregnancy as unwise.
"Just because you can conceive a child outside a one-woman, one-man marriage doesn't mean it's a good idea," said. "Love can't replace a mother and a father."
The vice president's office declined to elaborate on the circumstances of Mary Cheney's pregnancy.
The news was welcomed by the president of the largest national gay-rights group, Joe Solmonese of the Human Rights Campaign.
"Mary and Heather's decision to have a child is an example that families in America come in all different shapes and sizes," he said. "The bottom line is that a family is made up of love and commitment."
"I offer you a Vulcan prayer, Mr Suder. May your death bring you the peace you never found in life." - Tuvok.
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Quote:
Beardguy57 said:
"Just because you can conceive a child outside a one-woman, one-man marriage doesn't mean it's a good idea," said. "Love can't replace a mother and a father."
What about all the single parents? Widows and widowers, divorced people who raise a kid by themselves? Many do a fine job raising a child by themselves.
At least this child will have two parents.
"I offer you a Vulcan prayer, Mr Suder. May your death bring you the peace you never found in life." - Tuvok.
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Canada Won't Reopen Gay Marriage Debate
By ROB GILLIES, Associated Press Writer
4 hours ago
TORONTO - Canada's Parliament voted Thursday not to reopen the gay marriage debate, letting stand a law passed last year that legalized marriage for same-sex couples.
During the last election campaign, Conservative leader Stephen Harper _ now the prime minister _ had promised to hold a vote in the House of Commons on whether Parliament should reconsider the issue.
Harper's government, which draws most of its support from the conservative west, was seeking to appease its base, even though Christian activists acknowledged this week the law would stand.
"We didn't expect it to carry, but it was defeated by a higher margin than we thought," said Charles McVety, head of the Defend Marriage movement.
Twelve Conservative members of Parliament, including several members of Harper's Cabinet, joined Liberals and other opposition parties to defeat the motion to reopen the debate, 175-123.
Harper said the vote would likely put the issue to rest. "I don't see reopening this question in the future," he said after the vote.
Gay marriage became legal in Canada last year under the previous Liberal government in response to a series of court rulings that gave gay people the right to marry. Thousands of gay Canadians, as well as foreign visitors, have gotten married.
Laurie Arron, national coordinator for Canadians for Equal Marriage, which led the effort to legalize gay marriage, said Thursday's vote reflects a growing consensus among Canadians that it is time to move on. Last year's vote to allow gay marriage was 158-133.
"It's clear that this issue is now settled. The vote today was quite overwhelming," Arron said.
Same-sex marriage is legal in four other countries: Belgium, the Netherlands, Spain and South Africa. In the United States, only the state of Massachusetts allows gay marriage. Vermont and Connecticut permit civil unions, California grants similar status through a domestic-partner registration law, and more than a dozen states give gay couples some legal rights.
Copyright 2006 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or
"I offer you a Vulcan prayer, Mr Suder. May your death bring you the peace you never found in life." - Tuvok.
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N.J. OKS GAY UNIONSUnder pressure from New Jersey's highest court to offer marriage or its equivalent to gay couples, the state Legislature voted yesterday to make New Jersey the third state to allow civil unions.
Democratic Gov. Jon Corzine said he would sign the measure, which would extend to same-sex couples all the rights and privileges available under state law to married people. The bill passed the Assembly 56-19 and the Senate 23-12.
Corzine has said he prefers civil unions to gay marriage and promised a thorough review of the bill to ensure it doesn't bring unintended consequences. He did not say how soon he might sign the bill.
Massachusetts is the only state to allow gay marriage. Vermont and Connecticut have civil unions and California has domestic partnerships that work similarly.
Among the benefits gay couples would get under New Jersey's civil union bill are adoption rights, hospital visitation privileges and inheritance rights.
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This is a victory...as long as some asshole does not try to push a bill to take that away.
People seem to forget with all the rhetoric, bible quoting and rationalizing... that is is a human rights issue. It's as simple as that.
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Quote:
Beardguy57 said:
...it is a human rights issue. It's as simple as that.
But it isn't that simple. If its a "human rights" issue then you're saying that marriage is a "human right" and, therefore, the government may not be able regulate it.
But if the government can't regulate marriage at all, then what's to stop marriages between parents and adult children, siblings, etc?
Understand: from a basic public POLICY point I think there is a lot of validity to a legislatively enacted gay marriage. But calling it a "human right" makes the issue more, not less, complicated in a lot of ways.
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Sorry, G Man, I can't debate this issue right now! I'm on the phone talking to my congressman! I'm trying to get a bill proposed in which it states I can marry my right hand!
Seriously, G Man.....we have been over this one MANY times already.. I think you'd have to be gay to know where I am coming from....
"I offer you a Vulcan prayer, Mr Suder. May your death bring you the peace you never found in life." - Tuvok.
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Tabarnak! 6000+ posts
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Quote:
the G-man said:
Quote:
Beardguy57 said:
...it is a human rights issue. It's as simple as that.
But it isn't that simple. If its a "human rights" issue then you're saying that marriage is a "human right" and, therefore, the government may not be able regulate it.
But if the government can't regulate marriage at all, then what's to stop marriages between parents and adult children, siblings, etc?
Understand: from a basic public POLICY point I think there is a lot of validity to a legislatively enacted gay marriage. But calling it a "human right" makes the issue more, not less, complicated in a lot of ways.
I think I agree, actually. It's not a rights issue so much as a 'common decency' issue. The rights can be accorded via a civil union. The equality (which I think is entwined in the desire to actually 'marry') aspect is up to the good graces of the public.
If karma's a bitch, it will be my bitch!
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*Sigh*.... I expect that a civil union is commonly decent enough....
The Gay marriage thing will have to wait a few thousand years to happen in THIS country....
"I offer you a Vulcan prayer, Mr Suder. May your death bring you the peace you never found in life." - Tuvok.
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Quote:
klinton said:
I think I agree, actually. It's not a rights issue so much as a 'common decency' issue.
Thank you. That's a nice way to put it
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Benefits for Gay Couples Start in N.J.
By GEOFF MULVIHILL, Associated Press Writer
3 hours ago
TEANECK, N.J. - Shortly after midnight, Steven Goldstein and Daniel Gross renewed their vows as New Jersey became the third state in the nation to offer civil unions for gay couples.
The law that took effect Monday was "a big giant step forward," said state Sen. Loretta Weinberg, a prime sponsor of the civil unions law, who hosted ceremonies for couples including Goldstein and Gross.
The civil unions, which offer the legal benefits but not the title of marriage, were granted automatically to the hundreds of gay New Jersey couples who had previously been joined in civil unions or married in other states or nations.
For Goldstein and Gross, that meant reaffirming their Vermont civil union. They would have had the rights in New Jersey even without holding the midnight ceremony.
Their civil union license _ No. 1 _ was completed at 12:09 a.m. Monday by Teaneck registrar Laura Turnbull.
Elsewhere across the state, a handful of town halls opened at 12:01 a.m. to accept license applications from couples who had not been joined previously. They must wait 72 hours before they can hold civil union ceremonies _ just like with weddings _ and several planned to exchange vows early Thursday.
Among those couples were Marty Finkle and Michael Plake of South Orange. A few dozen friends, Finkle's 17-year-old daughter and several local officials cheered as they filled out paperwork in their town hall.
Finkle and Plake also were among the first New Jersey couples to register in a domestic partnership in 2004. Domestic partnerships offered a handful of the benefits and obligations of civil unions.
Among the many new benefits under the civil unions law, gay couples gain the rights to adoption, child custody, visiting a hospitalized partner and making medical decisions. They also now have the right not to testify against a partner in state court.
However, the federal government and most states do not recognize the unions. That means, for instance, that a surviving member of a civil union would not be entitled to his deceased partner's Social Security benefits. And if a partner is hospitalized in another state, the other may not have an automatic visitation right.
New Jersey lawmakers hastily created civil unions in December, less than two months after a state Supreme Court decision held that gay couples had a right to the same benefits as married couples.
Gay rights activists in the state say they'll continue to press for full marriage rights through both political channels and lawsuits. Some social conservative groups, meanwhile, are pledging to block same-sex marriage by pressing for an amendment to the state constitution that prohibits such unions.
Forty-five states have legal or constitutional bans on same-sex marriages. Only Massachusetts allows gay couples to marry, while California offers domestic partnerships.
Goldstein, chairman of the gay rights group Garden State Equality, and Gross, a vice president at Goldman Sachs, held their ceremony behind a desk in a cramped office.
There were several kisses, a prayer reading, friends and journalists, but no music, no dancing and none of the breaking-of-the-glass that is traditional in Jewish weddings.
The couple did that in a Jewish wedding service in Canada in 2002 _ the first same-sex union featured in the wedding pages of The New York Times _ and promised even grander festivities if they eventually gain the right to marry in New Jersey.
As part of their ceremony, their rabbi, Elliott Tepperman, asked the people gathered: "Do you vow to continue your support for true marriage equality?"
"This was really all about receiving a piece of paper that had some recognition of our status," Gross said.
"I offer you a Vulcan prayer, Mr Suder. May your death bring you the peace you never found in life." - Tuvok.
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Rob and PJP will be thrilled to hear this!!
If karma's a bitch, it will be my bitch!
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Civil Unions for Gays Available in New JerseyAmong the many new benefits under the civil unions law, gay couples gain the rights to adoption, child custody, visiting a hospitalized partner and making medical decisions. They also now have the right not to testify against a partner in state court.
However, the federal government and most states do not recognize the unions. That means, for instance, that a surviving member of a civil union would not be entitled to his deceased partner's Social Security benefits. And if a partner is hospitalized in another state, the other may not have an automatic visitation right.
New Jersey lawmakers hastily created civil unions in December, less than two months after a state Supreme Court decision held that gay couples had a right to the same benefits as married couples.
Gay rights activists in the state say they'll continue to press for full marriage rights through both political channels and lawsuits. Some social conservative groups, meanwhile, are pledging to block same-sex marriage by pressing for an amendment to the state constitution that prohibits such unions.
Forty-five states have legal or constitutional bans on same-sex marriages. Only Massachusetts allows gay couples to marry, while California offers domestic partnerships
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Gay Marriage Critic Tried on Lewdness
By JEFF LATZKE, Associated Press Writer
2 hours ago
OKLAHOMA CITY - The lawyer for a former Baptist church leader who had spoken out against homosexuality said Thursday the minister has a constitutional right to solicit sex from an undercover policeman.
The Rev. Lonnie W. Latham had supported a resolution calling on gays and lesbians to reject their "sinful, destructive lifestyle" before his Jan. 3, 2006, arrest outside the Habana Inn in Oklahoma City.
Authorities say he asked the undercover policeman to come up to his hotel for oral sex.
His attorney, Mack Martin, filed a motion to have the misdemeanor lewdness charge thrown out, saying the Supreme Court ruled in the 2003 decision Lawrence v. Texas that it was not illegal for consenting adults to engage in private homosexual acts.
"Now, my client's being prosecuted basically for having offered to engage in such an act, which basically makes it a crime to ask someone to do something that's legal," Martin said.
Both sides agree there was no offer of money, but prosecutor Scott Rowland said there is a "legitimate governmental interest" in regulating offers of acts of lewdness.
The American Civil Liberties Union of Oklahoma has filed a brief claiming that Latham's arrest also violated his right to free speech.
Before his arrest, Latham had spoken against same-sex marriage and in support of a Southern Baptist resolution that called upon gays and lesbians to reject their lifestyle.
He has since resigned as pastor of the South Tulsa Baptist Church and stepped down from the executive committee of the Southern Baptist Convention, where he was one of four members from Oklahoma.
On Thursday Latham declined to talk to reporters at the non-jury trial.
Judge Roma M. McElwee said she would rule on the motion and issue a verdict in about two weeks. If convicted of the misdemeanor, Latham faces up to a year in jail and a $2,500 fine.
"I offer you a Vulcan prayer, Mr Suder. May your death bring you the peace you never found in life." - Tuvok.
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Quote:
Rob Kamphausen said:
i guess i just dont get it.
Not too bright are you Robbie?
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N.H. gov to sign civil unions bill
Gov. John Lynch told The Associated Press on Thursday he will sign legislation establishing civil unions in New Hampshire. New Hampshire thus will become the fourth state to adopt civil unions and the first to do so without first having a court fight over denying gays the right to marry.
Good for him. I've always said that I have no objection to gay marriage if created by legislation (as opposed to judicial fiat). Glad to see that at least one state finally did it the right way.
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Washington gives domestic partnership rights to gay couples: Amid happy tears and rounds of applause, Gov. Chris Gregoire on Saturday signed into law a bill that grants same-sex couples some of the same rights as married people.
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I'd like to be happy with these new developments if I wasn't half - expecting an amendment to the constitution that forbade gays to marry or have equal rights in this country.
I have heard that states would each have the choice to enforce such a hypothetical amendment or not, is this so,G - Man?
"I offer you a Vulcan prayer, Mr Suder. May your death bring you the peace you never found in life." - Tuvok.
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N.H. Lawmakers Approve Civil Unions
By BEVERLEY WANG, Associated Press Writer
1 hour ago
CONCORD, N.H. - New Hampshire lawmakers voted Thursday to authorize civil unions and sent the measure to Gov. John Lynch, who announced last week that he would sign it.
"This legislation is a matter of conscience, fairness and of preventing discrimination," said Colin Manning, a spokesman for the Democratic governor. "It is in keeping with New Hampshire's proud tradition of preventing discrimination."
Three other states already offer civil unions for gay couples: New Jersey, Connecticut and Vermont. Neighboring Massachusetts in 2004 became the only state to allow gay marriage.
Unlike other states, there was no active court challenge to push New Hampshire to act on the issue.
In fact, the success of civil unions was an about-face from two years earlier, when a study panel recommended New Hampshire giving no meaningful consideration to extending legal recognition to gay couples.
That panel had concluded that homosexuality was a choice, and it endorsed a constitutional amendment to limit marriage to unions between a man and a woman. State lawmakers have defeated proposed constitutional bans on same-sex marriage two years in a row.
Sponsors of the civil unions bill called it a door to marriage in all aspects but name. Opponents argued it would lead to the collapse of traditional values.
"Let's just call it what it really is, no sugarcoating," said Republican Sen. Robert Letourneau, of Derry. "This creates same-sex marriage. There is no right to marriage in either the New Hampshire Constitution or the federal Constitution."
"We don't let blind people drive or felons vote, all for good and obvious reasons," he said.
Thursday's legislation, passed 14-10 along party lines in the Senate _ Democrats in favor, Republicans opposed _ will allow civil unions in New Hampshire starting Jan. 1.
Washington, Maine, California, New York and Washington D.C., recognize domestic partnerships. New York Gov. Eliot Spitzer this week pledged to introduce gay marriage legislation in the next few weeks.
"I offer you a Vulcan prayer, Mr Suder. May your death bring you the peace you never found in life." - Tuvok.
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Oregon Gov. Signs Domestic Partner Bill
By BRAD CAIN, Associated Press Writer
49 minutes ago
SALEM, Ore. - Oregon on Wednesday joined a growing list of states prepared to offer gay couples at least some of the benefits of marriage.
Gov. Ted Kulongoski signed legislation creating "domestic partnerships" for gays and lesbians in the state starting Jan. 1. He also signed a bill that outlaws discrimination based on sexual orientation, effective the same date.
Kulongoski, a strong backer of both measures, said they would "transform our state from one of exclusion to one of complete inclusion." The measures had been attempted before but were always blocked by the Legislature until this year.
The domestic partnership law will enable same-sex couples to enter into contractual relationships that carry many of the benefits offered to married couples. The other law will ban discrimination against gays, lesbians, bisexuals and transgendered people in employment, housing and access to public accommodations.
So far, only Massachusetts allows gay couples to marry. Vermont, Connecticut, California, New Jersey, Maine and Washington have laws allowing either civil unions or domestic partnerships, and Hawaii extends certain spousal rights to same-sex couples and cohabiting heterosexual pairs. The New Hampshire Legislature also recently approved a civil unions measure that Gov. John Lynch has said he will sign.
"I offer you a Vulcan prayer, Mr Suder. May your death bring you the peace you never found in life." - Tuvok.
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