RKMBs Forums .::Important::. Politics and Current Events "It's not about oil or Iraq..."

Quote:

---

r3x29yz4a said:

Quote:

---

PJP said:

Quote:

---

klinton said:

Quote:

---

PJP said:
I just think in this situation the UN was corrupted beyond salvation.

---

You won't even consider the idea that perhaps it's your administration that's corrupt?

---

I would. I personally have stopped trusting all politicians.

---

surely you can't be serious.

---

Quote:

---

klinton said:..the council did not support the invasion, you know this.

---

Quote:

---

PJP said:
r3x29yz4a said:
surely you can't be serious.

---

I'm being serious.....dishonest deals sadly have beome the norm. Politicians are all slaves to the lobbyists and coroporations.

---

you were supposed to say "I am serious. And don't call me Shirley."

Quote:

---

'Enemies of humanity' quote raises Iraq PR questions


News release quotes from unidentified Iraqis are virtually the same

Sunday, July 24, 2005; Posted: 5:13 p.m. EDT (21:13 GMT)

BAGHDAD, Iraq (CNN) -- The U.S. military on Sunday said it was looking into how virtually identical quotations ended up in two of its news releases about different insurgent attacks.

Following a car bombing in Baghdad on Sunday, the U.S. military issued a statement with a quotation attributed to an unidentified Iraqi that was virtually identical to a quote reacting to an attack on July 13.

After questioning by news media, the military released the statement without the quotation.

Lt. Col. Clifford Kent, spokesman for the U.S. Army's 3rd Infantry Division, said use of the quote was an "administrative error." He said the military was looking into the matter.

The car bomb killed 25 people and wounded 33 others near the al-Rashad police station, Baghdad emergency police said. (Full story)

A statement about the attack by Task Force Baghdad 3rd Infantry Division contained a three-sentence quote attributed to an unidentified Iraqi. The statement said the Iraqi called the attackers "enemies of humanity" and vowed to "take the fight to the terrorists."

The quote was virtually the same as a quote contained in a Task Force Baghdad 3rd Infantry Division statement released after a car bombing on July 13. That attack killed several children.

The statement about the July 13 attack quoted an unidentified Iraqi saying terrorists were attacking "the children." In Sunday's quote, an unidentified Iraqi said terrorists were attacking "the ISF" (Iraqi Security Forces).

Following are the two quotes as provided by the U.S. military in news releases:

Sunday's news release said: "'The terrorists are attacking the infrastructure, the ISF and all of Iraq. They are enemies of humanity without religion or any sort of ethics. They have attacked my community today and I will now take the fight to the terrorists,' said one Iraqi man who preferred not to be identified."

The July 13 news release said: "'The terrorists are attacking the infrastructure, the children and all of Iraq,' said one Iraqi man who preferred not to be identified. 'They are enemies of humanity without religion or any sort of ethics. They have attacked my community today and I will now take the fight to the terrorists.'"

CNN's Cal Perry and Kevin Flower contributed to this report.

---

Quote:

---

"So we're driving down the road and it's midnight, so it's pitch-black, and when you're driving at night, you don't use any lights," says Terry Rodgers, "but we can see fine because we've got night vision goggles."....

We're driving down this road and there's this tiny bridge over a little canal," he says. "They had rigged up this bomb and they had a tripwire running across the bridge and we hit it and it blew up."

Like the rest of the 13,877 Americans wounded in Iraq, Rodgers has a story to tell. He tells it in a matter-of-fact voice, like he's talking about making a midnight pizza run or something. He's sitting in an armchair with his right leg propped on an ottoman, the foot encased in a soft black cast that reaches almost to the knee. His crutches are lying on the rug beside the chair.

"The Humvee finally comes to a stop and the right side is just torn apart and I hear my squad leader screaming, 'I think I lost my arm!' And my best friend Maida was in the front passenger seat where the bomb went off and he was screaming, 'Where's help? Where's help?' And then he went quiet...

---

Quote:

---

"And me, I'm trying to crawl out of the Humvee and I get most of my body out and just this leg is stuck and I thought it must be caught on something in the twisted metal. I look back and I see it's just laying there on the seat, so I'm like, 'Why is it stuck?' So I try to lift my leg up and it won't lift. I just had to pick up my leg and crawl the rest of the way out."

He mimes the action of picking up his leg with his hands, then he continues the story.

I started patting myself down and that's when I noticed that my face took some shrapnel," he says. "It was all swollen on this side, so when I'm patting myself down, my middle finger went, like, this deep into my cheek where the shrapnel went in."

He points to a spot about halfway down his finger, showing how far it went into the shrapnel wound behind his right eye, which is still pretty much blind, unable to see anything but bright light.

"Then I started checking out my leg. I knew my femur was broken, but at that time I didn't know my calf was missing," he says. "And that's when I hear my best friend Maida and he started heaving."

Rodgers takes a few loud, quick breaths to show what Mark Maida sounded like.

"And he breathes like that for a few seconds and then he just stops. And that's when he died."

---

Quote:

---

Terry Rodgers, who just turned 21, grew up in Rockville, son of a carpenter and a courthouse clerk. After graduating from Richard Montgomery High School in 2002, he worked as a mechanic in a Washington gas station, then joined the Army.

"It was something I always wanted to do," he says. "I thought it looked fun. I just wanted to get out on my own for a while. I got kind of bored being around here. I wanted to try something new."

He signed up in October 2002, but he didn't go into the Army until the following July. In between, the United States invaded Iraq, but Rodgers didn't pay much attention to that.

"I didn't have a political view," he says. "I'm not into politics."

---

Quote:

---

"He got visits from celebrities, too. Generals came by to shake his hand and ask how he was doing. The Dave Matthews Band visited, as did players from the Washington Nationals and Colorado Rockies.

"I didn't catch their names," he says. "I was kind of high on morphine at the time. And you can't read their autographs."

One day a nurse came in to ask Rodgers if he wanted to meet President Bush, who was visiting the hospital. Rodgers declined.

I don't want anything to do with him," he explains. "My belief is that his ego is getting people killed and mutilated for no reason -- just his ego and his reputation. If we really wanted to, we could pull out of Iraq. Maybe not completely but enough that we wouldn't be losing people -- at least not at this rate. So I think he himself is responsible for quite a few American deaths."

Bill Swisher, a spokesman for Walter Reed, says it's "fairly common" for patients to decline to see visitors. "We've had visitors from Sheryl Crow to Hulk Hogan," he says, but he has no idea how many have refused to see Bush, who has visited the hospital eight times.

Rodgers says he also declined to meet Dick Cheney, Donald Rumsfeld and Condoleezza Rice. This wounded soldier has lost faith in his leaders, and he no longer believes their repeated assurances of victory.

"It's gonna go on as long as we're there," he says. "There's always gonna be insurgents trying to blow us up. There's just too many of 'em that are willing to do it. You're never gonna catch all of 'em. And it seems like they have unlimited amounts of ammunition. So I don't think it's ever gonna end."

---

Quote:

---

I'm letting the story speak for itself. There sure as hell nothing this civilian can say to improve on it. BUT, if fate ever allows us to meet face to face, he won't have buy his own drink for that entire night.

---

I've bought many a drink for many returned soldiers and a few for my buddies heading out. There opinions often differ from this soldiers. But I'm sure you still hold them in high regard

Quote:

---

wannabuyamonkey said:

Quote:

---

I'm letting the story speak for itself. There sure as hell nothing this civilian can say to improve on it. BUT, if fate ever allows us to meet face to face, he won't have buy his own drink for that entire night.

---

I've bought many a drink for many returned soldiers and a few for my buddies heading out. There opinions often differ from this soldiers. But I'm sure you still hold them in high regard

---

Quote:

---

r3x29yz4a said:

Quote:

---

wannabuyamonkey said:

Quote:

---

I'm letting the story speak for itself. There sure as hell nothing this civilian can say to improve on it. BUT, if fate ever allows us to meet face to face, he won't have buy his own drink for that entire night.

---

I've bought many a drink for many returned soldiers and a few for my buddies heading out. There opinions often differ from this soldiers. But I'm sure you still hold them in high regard

---

I would have trouble respecting the opinion of anyone who'd drink with you.


oh...no offense.

---

Quote:

---

UID is willing to fellate any....

---

Quote:

---

unrestrained id said:
It's halarious that WBAM and G-Man can't discuss issues without changing the header into some obscene defamatory jab.

It must be hard watching America and the troops leave your deluded misled worldview behind.

---

Quote:

---

U.S. Lowers Sights On What Can Be Achieved in Iraq

Administration Is Shedding 'Unreality' That Dominated Invasion, Official Says

By Robin Wright and Ellen Knickmeyer
Washington Post Staff Writers
Sunday, August 14, 2005; A01


The Bush administration is significantly lowering expectations of what can be achieved in Iraq, recognizing that the United States will have to settle for far less progress than originally envisioned during the transition due to end in four months, according to U.S. officials in Washington and Baghdad.

The United States no longer expects to see a model new democracy, a self-supporting oil industry or a society in which the majority of people are free from serious security or economic challenges, U.S. officials say.

"What we expected to achieve was never realistic given the timetable or what unfolded on the ground," said a senior official involved in policy since the 2003 invasion. "We are in a process of absorbing the factors of the situation we're in and shedding the unreality that dominated at the beginning."

Administration officials still emphasize how much they have achieved despite the chaos that followed the invasion and the escalating insurgency. "Iraqis are taking control of their country, building a free nation that can govern itself, sustain itself and defend itself. And we're helping Iraqis succeed," G-Man, err.. I mean President Bush said yesterday in his radio address.

Iraqi officials yesterday struggled to agree on a draft constitution by a deadline of tomorrow so the document can be submitted to a vote in October. The political transition would be completed in December by elections for a permanent government.

But the realities of daily life are a constant reminder of how the initial U.S. ambitions have not been fulfilled in ways that Americans and Iraqis once anticipated. Many of Baghdad's 6 million people go without electricity for days in 120-degree heat. Parents fearful of kidnapping are keeping children indoors.

Reports indicate that Dave the Wonder Boy thinks this is all "liberal" hoseshit though as FOX News long ago informed him that there is plenty of electricity.

Barbers post signs saying they do not shave men, after months of barbers being killed by religious extremists. Ethnic or religious-based militias police the northern and southern portions of Iraq. Analysts estimate that in the whole of Iraq, unemployment is 50 percent to 65 percent.

U.S. officials say no turning point forced a reassessment. "It happened rather gradually," said the senior official, triggered by everything from the insurgency to shifting budgets to U.S. personnel changes in Baghdad.

The ferocious debate over a new constitution has particularly driven home the gap between the original U.S. goals and the realities after almost 28 months. The U.S. decision to invade Iraq was justified in part by the goal of establishing a secular and modern Iraq that honors human rights and unites disparate ethnic and religious communities.

But whatever the outcome on specific disputes, the document on which Iraq's future is to be built will require laws to be compliant with Islam. Kurds and Shiites are expecting de facto long-term political privileges. And women's rights will not be as firmly entrenched as Washington has tried to insist, U.S. officials and Iraq analysts say.

"We set out to establish a democracy, but we're slowly realizing we will have some form of Islamic republic," said another U.S. official familiar with policymaking from the beginning, who like some others interviewed would speak candidly only on the condition of anonymity. "That process is being repeated all over."

U.S. officials now acknowledge that they misread the strength of the sentiment among Kurds and Shiites to create a special status. The Shiites' request this month for autonomy to be guaranteed in the constitution stunned the Bush administration, even after more than two years of intense intervention in Iraq's political process, they said.

---

Quote:

---

"We didn't calculate the depths of feeling in both the Kurdish and Shiite communities for a winner-take-all attitude," said Judith S. Yaphe, a former CIA Iraq analyst at the National Defense University.

In the race to meet a sequence of fall deadlines, the process of forging national unity behind the constitution is largely being scrapped, current and former officials involved in the transition said.

"We are definitely cutting corners and lowering our ambitions in democracy building," said Larry Diamond, a Stanford University democracy expert who worked with the U.S. occupation government and wrote the book "Squandered Victory: The American Occupation and the Bungled Effort to Bring Democracy to Iraq."

"Under pressure to get a constitution done, they've lowered their own ambitions in terms of getting a document that is going to be very far-reaching and democratic. We also don't have the time to go through the process we envisioned when we wrote the interim constitution -- to build a democratic culture and consensus through debate over a permanent constitution," he said.

The goal now is to ensure a constitution that can be easily amended later so Iraq can grow into a democracy, U.S. officials say.

On security, the administration originally expected the U.S.-led coalition to be welcomed with rice and rosewater, traditional Arab greetings, with only a limited reaction from loyalists of ousted Iraqi president Saddam Hussein. The surprising scope of the insurgency and influx of foreign fighters has forced Washington to repeatedly lower expectations -- about the time-frame for quelling the insurgency and creating an effective and cohesive Iraqi force capable of stepping in, U.S. officials said.

Killings of members of the Iraqi security force have tripled since January. Iraq's ministry of health estimates that bombings and other attacks have killed 4,000 civilians in Baghdad since Prime Minister Ibrahim Jafari's interim government took office April 28.

Last week was the fourth-worst week of the whole war for U.S. military deaths in combat, and August already is the worst month for deaths of members of the National Guard and Reserve.

Attacks on U.S. convoys by insurgents using roadside bombs have doubled over the past year, Army Brig. Gen. Yves Fontaine said Friday. Convoys ferrying food, fuel, water, arms and equipment from Kuwait, Jordan and Turkey are attacked about 30 times a week, Fontaine said.

"There has been a realistic reassessment of what it is possible to achieve in the short term and fashion a partial exit strategy," Yaphe said. "This change is dictated not just by events on the ground but by unrealistic expectations at the start."

Washington now does not expect to fully defeat the insurgency before departing, but instead to diminish it, officials and analysts said. There is also growing talk of turning over security responsibilities to the Iraqi forces even if they are not fully up to original U.S. expectations, in part because they have local legitimacy that U.S. troops often do not.

"We've said we won't leave a day before it's necessary. But necessary is the key word -- necessary for them or for us? When we finally depart, it will probably be for us," a U.S. official said.

Pressed by the cost of fighting an escalating insurgency, U.S. expectations for rebuilding Iraq -- and its $20 billion investment -- have fallen the farthest, current and former officials say.

Pentagon officials originally envisioned Iraq's oil revenue paying many post-invasion expenses. But Iraq, ranked among world leaders behind Saudi Arabia in proven oil reserves, is incapable of producing enough refined fuel amid a car-buying boom that has put an estimated 1 million more vehicles on the road after the invasion. Lines for subsidized cheap gas stretch for miles every day in Baghdad.

Oil production is estimated at 2.22 million barrels a day, short of the goal of 2.5 million. Iraq's pre-war high was 2.67 million barrels a day.

The United States had high hopes of quick, big-budget fixes for the electrical power system that would show Iraqis tangible benefits from the ouster of Hussein. But inadequate training for Iraqi staff, regional rivalries restricting the power flow to Baghdad, inadequate fuel for electrical generators and attacks on the infrastructure have contributed to the worst summer of electrical shortages in the capital. Dave the Wonder Boy it should be noted, still begs to differ.

Water is also a "tough, tough" situation in a desert country, said a U.S. official in Baghdad familiar with reconstruction issues. Pumping stations depend on electricity, and engineers now say the system has hundreds of thousands of leaks.

"The most thoroughly dashed expectation was the ability to build a robust self-sustaining economy. We're nowhere near that. State industries, electricity are all below what they were before we got there," said Wayne White, former head of the State Department's Iraq intelligence team who is now at the Middle East Institute. "The administration says Saddam ran down the country. But most damage was from looting [after the invasion], which took down state industries, large private manufacturing, the national electric" system.

Ironically, White said, the initial ambitions may have complicated the U.S. mission: "In order to get out earlier, expectations are going to have to be lower, even much lower. The higher your expectation, the longer you have to stay. Getting out is going to be a more important consideration than the original goals were. They were unrealistic."

Knickmeyer reported from Baghdad.

---

Yeah, it was all worth it.




What is a neocon to make of this? What happened to upset the plan/fantasy that we would be spreading democracy in the Middle East?

Mission Accomplished. Who is next to be "liberated"?

We had a plan see, invade Iraq because of the weapons of mass destruction and their "defying" the U.N. whose resolutions we hold sacred. Blow everything up good and then wait for them to welcome us with flowers and cries of "dee-moc-ra-seee!"

Now I have come to understand the term "Catastrophic Success". Before I didn't know what the hell Bush was talking about, but it is now clear.

To be successful in creating a catastrophe.

However, all is not lost, despite this report I hear from good sources that the insurgency is in it's "last throes".




I just hope Cindy Sheehan has a lot more room there on that ditch on the side of the road in Texas.

Quote:

---

theory9 said:
Neither side is interested in any facts that can't be used to spin their version of reality into hyberole orbit. You're both cocksuckers in the real world...

---

Quote:

---

But if any Republican, such as John McCain, Chuck Hegel, Richard Lugar, etc., or any other Republican official, private citizen or Republican soldier, criticizes Bush policy in Iraq, it's portrayed as "chaos" in the Republican party, or Republicans in disarray, or Republicans "eating their own".
So if Republicans agree, liberals portray it as a bad thing, "automatons" goose-stepping mindlessly to the Cause.
And if Republicans disagree, it's portrayed by liberals as "chaos". Or "lack of unity".

---

Quote:

---

MisterJLA said:

Quote:

---

But if any Republican, such as John McCain, Chuck Hegel, Richard Lugar, etc., or any other Republican official, private citizen or Republican soldier, criticizes Bush policy in Iraq, it's portrayed as "chaos" in the Republican party, or Republicans in disarray, or Republicans "eating their own".
So if Republicans agree, liberals portray it as a bad thing, "automatons" goose-stepping mindlessly to the Cause.
And if Republicans disagree, it's portrayed by liberals as "chaos". Or "lack of unity".

---

Very, very true.

---

Quote:

---

And partisan attempts to smear me and others for supporting our president, against similar smear tactics and unproven allegations.

---

So...you are a cocksucker?

Quote:

---

theory9 said:

Quote:

---

Wonder Boy said:

And partisan attempts to smear me and others for supporting our president, against similar smear tactics and unproven allegations.

---

So...you are a cocksucker?

---

So... you are non-partisan and objective ?



Glad you're having fun, even though you aren't.

Quote:

---

theory9 said:
I knew it!

---

That you're a partisan cocksucker ?

Seriously, I don't know whether you're making a sincere attempt at objectivity, but I've been pretty clear in my above statements that I DON'T just re-inforce the Republican talking points, that I DO criticize the president, constructively, and that I DON'T just believe and take for granted everything as true that the Republicans say.
Whether it's G.W. Bush, Bush Sr., Reagan, Nixon or whoever.

And I offered plenty of constructive criticisms of W. Bush in my above post.
And I have done so consistently, across many topics for the last 3 years.

Which you conveniently bypassed in your attempt to smear me as just another blind partisan who never criticizes or recognizes proven mistakes of leaders in my party.
I just did !!
Re-read my above post. Among many others.

Which is rather weaselly and deceitful, although you did it under a veil of "just kidding" , as has been done often by many "non-partisan" liberals on the RKMB boards.

---------------------

Welcome back board, page 5
http://www.rkmbs.com/Number=302971

humorless buttheads call me humorless for responding to nonsense I'd rather ignore. The problem is not just playful insults like "DTWB is a homo!" like is directed at Rob Kamphausen, Franta and others. The problem is that liberal assholes have so thoroughly woven their insults with serious accusations, so that any response to counter the personal smears can be characterized as my over-reacting to "jokes", under a veil of plausible deniability that such comments are only meant as "humor".
But the jokes are not playful, and I think we all know that.

Another topic where I've given weight to both sides, acknowledged mistakes by Republicans, and not just demonized the Democrats, the way liberal-partisans have Republicans:

Clinton's Legacy
HERE

Along with these others, where I acknowledged errors by Bush and/or other Republicans, while giving a much-needed counter-balancing conservative perspective to expose the rampant lying demonization rhetoric of Whomod and others:

Bush campaign ad uses Hitler image of Democrats    
HERE

 
U.N. Nuke Agency Warns N.Korea to Comply
HERE

The Chronicles of Enron    
HERE  
 
   
Is WALMART what's wrong with America?
HERE  

Is Roy Moor a man of God or a self serving ass hole?
HERE  

War bias appropriate, say viewers
HERE

Coalition forces torture Iraqi prisoners    
HERE

Among many others, where I have no shyness about acknowledging conservative mistakes, sometimes large errors, others small errors insignificant in the greater sweep of events.  



It annoys me that you, and several others, demonize the Republicans, and then when called on it try and present yourselves as above the fray and allege: "Well, both sides do it equally."
No, they don't.
I don't see anyone posting here on the conservative side who posts the kind of inflammatory rhetoric that I consistently respond to and deconstruct as the viciously partisan liberal propaganda that it is.

Conservatives here, including G-Man, WBAM, BSAMS, Pariah, MrJLA and others, are consistently responding to outrageous statements from the left.

And then cocksuckers on the left continually duck acknowledging the valid counter-arguments, the complete lack of facts to support liberal allegations, and who lacking facts then resort to personal insults, and absolutely refuse to have a polite discussion about the issue without personalizing it.

Quote:

---

theory9 said:
That's the Wonder Boy I know!
...and just for the record, I don't think you're a [retired word here].

---

I appreciate that, T9.

Like everybody else here, I can get a little carried awaay sometimes. Thanks for maintaining a sense of humor, and keepin' me real.


--------------------


"This Man, This Wonder Boy..."

Quote:

---

Republican Party foreign policy expert Sen. Chuck Hagel is calling for the United States to open talks with Iran's new president and has dismissed President George W. Bush's talk of a military option against Tehran as an empty and foolish threat.

http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/N19384298.htm />

---

Quote:

---

Republican Sen. Chuck Hagel has called for closing the American "terrorist" prison at Guantanamo

"It's not appropriate," said Sen. Chuck Hagel on CNN's "Late Edition." "It's not at all within the standards of who we are as a civilized people, what our laws are.

"If in fact we are treating prisoners this way, it's not only wrong, it's dangerous and very dumb and very shortsighted," the Nebraska Republican said.

"This is not how you win the people of the world over to our side, especially the Muslim world."

---

Quote:

---

Hagel: Iraq growing more like Vietnam

Republican Senator says Bush should meet with protesting mom

Friday, August 19, 2005 Posted: 0335 GMT (1135 HKT)

RELATED
• Kissinger: Parallels to Vietnam
SPECIAL REPORT

WASHINGTON (CNN) -- Republican Sen. Chuck Hagel of Nebraska on Thursday said the United States is "getting more and more bogged down" in Iraq and stood by his comments that the White House is disconnected from reality and losing the war.

The longer U.S. forces remain in Iraq, he said, the more it begins to resemble the Vietnam war.

Hagel mocked Vice President Dick Cheney's assertion in June that the insurgency in Iraq was in its "last throes," saying the U.S. death toll has risen amid insurgent attacks.

"Maybe the vice president can explain the increase in casualties we're taking," the Nebraskan told CNN.

"If that's winning, then he's got a different definition of winning than I do."


Hagel, an Army infantry squad leader during the Vietnam war, sits on the Senate Foreign Relations Committee and supported the October 2002 resolution authorizing military action against Iraq.

But he said the United States risks losing more public support for the conflict amid a rising cost in blood and money.

"The casualties we're taking, the billion dollars a week we're putting in there, the kind of commitment we've got -- we're not going to be able to sustain it," he said.

Iraq and Vietnam still have more differences than similarities, he said, but "there is a parallel emerging."

"The longer we stay in Iraq, the more similarities will start to develop, meaning essentially that we are getting more and more bogged down, taking more and more casualties, more and more heated dissension and debate in the United States," Hagel said.

Hagel also did not back away from comments he made in June to U.S. News & World Report that "the White House is completely disconnected from reality" and "the reality is that we're losing in Iraq."

"It gives me no great pleasure to have said that and to say that now," he said Thursday.

He said the U.S. death toll has continued to rise "at a very significant rate -- more dead, more wounded, less electricity in Iraq, less oil being pumped in Iraq, more insurgent attacks, more insurgents coming across the border, more corruption in the government."

A total of 1,861 American troops have died in the war since the U.S.-led invasion in March 2003, including four who were killed Thursday by a roadside bomb in Samarra. (Full story)

Cheney said in June that the insurgency is "in the last throes," and he predicted that the fighting will end before the Bush administration leaves office. (Full story)

In the CNN interview Thursday, Hagel mentioned Cheney's comments about the insurgency and quickly added, "The facts speak for themselves."

Hagel did say he agrees with President Bush that the United States should not set a timetable for troop withdrawal, but he also predicted the United States would begin "withdrawing troops from Iraq next year."

"I don't like time frames because it gives the president no flexibility, and I think you always must have flexibility in these things and a judgment call by the president," he said.

Ultimately, he said, it's up to the Iraqis to control their nation's fate.

"That means they are either going to have to be in a position sometime next year to really step up in governing themselves, defending themselves, supporting themselves, or we can't continue to stay there indefinitely," Hagel said.

The next six months will be "very critical" in Iraq, he said.

"Not just the constitution writing, referendum, the election -- but also within that six months' period we're going to see whether the Iraqis are really going to be capable of defending themselves," he said.

On another Iraq-related issue, Hagel said Bush made the wrong decision by not meeting again with Cindy Sheehan, a mother of a U.S. soldier killed in Iraq who has camped outside the president's Texas ranch. (Full story)

Sheehan "deserves some consideration, and I think that should have been done right from the beginning," Hagel said, noting that Bush did meet with her shortly after her son's death last year.

"I think the wise course of action, the compassionate course of action, the better course of action would have been to immediately invite her in to the ranch. It should have been done when this whole thing started. Listen to her."

---

So a few here think Sheehan is crazy and should be ignored. Hagel, the Republican thinks it was the wrong descision.

I don't know what's happening here in the GOP ranks, but I like it! Theory9 made assertions to the point that no side is willing to listen to the other side. Do you think perhaps they'll listen to THEIR OWN side when they reach the same conclusions?

It's nice to see he disagrees with Bush's descision to not meet with Sheehan and instead choosing to sit on the sidelines as the right wing media smear and deride her.

Quote:

---

So a few here think Sheehan is crazy and should be ignored. Hagel, the Republican thinks it was the wrong descision.

---

Quote:

---

I don't know what's happening here in the GOP ranks, but I like it! Theory9 made assertions to the point that no side is willing to listen to the other side. Do you think perhaps they'll listen to THEIR OWN side when they reach the same conclusions?

---

Quote:

---

It's nice to see he disagrees with Bush's descision to not meet with Sheehan and instead choosing to sit on the sidelines as the right wing media smear and deride her.

---

Quote:

---

wannabuyamonkey said: he hasn't accused the war of being controlled by a secret caball of sinister Jews out to controll the worl for Isreal. He hasn't said that America is the worst country in teh history of the world.

---

Quote:

---

I have yet to hear anyone on the right wing media smear her. (keep in mind I can't listen to all the right wing media, I just hear the shows I hear and what's in the official talking points memo I get each day from te sinister Jewish llead neocon caball)

---

Quote:

---

As the father of a son who is serving with the military in Iraq, and as a Vietnam veteran, I am still appalled by the fact that the Pentagon is still struggling to replace body armor that is failing to protect U.S. troops from the most lethal attacks by insurgents ("U.S. Struggles to Get Better Armor for Troops in Iraq," Aug. 15).

Since the popularity of President Bush and U.S. Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld has fallen, I suggest that since the soldiers are deployed in Iraq for approximately one year, they too should try going one year without their Secret Service protection. They could then imagine how it feels to walk in the boots of a real soldier.


ROBERT C. MEUSSNER
Carrick


http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/05236/558618.stm

---

Quote:

---

Republican Congressman Breaks Ranks, Joins Demand for Documents on Downing Street Memos
By David Swanson

Congressman Jim Leach (R, Iowa) has informed Congresswoman Barbara Lee (D, California) that he will co-sponsor her Resolution of Inquiry into Bush Administration communications with the U.K. about Iraq at the time of the Downing Street Memos. Leach is the first Republican member of Congress to publicly support a demand for an inquiry into the Bush Administration's pre-war claims. The 131 congress members who have signed Congressman John Conyers' letter to the President about the Downing Street Memo are all Democrats. The 11 Senators who have asked the Senate Intelligence Committee to do the investigation it committed to in February 2004 but never did are all Democrats.

The Resolution, H. Res. 375, is a privileged resolution which must be brought to a vote in the House International Relations Committee by September 16th, or Lee is permitted to demand a vote of the full House. Fifty-two Democrats, including Lee, have co-sponsored the Resolution. Leach is the first Republican to join them, and he is a member of the International Relations Committee..

The International Relations Committee has 27 Republican members and 23 Democratic members. Thus far 10 of the Democrats have co-sponsored the Resolution. If the other 13 vote for it as well, then along with Leach, one more Republican vote will be needed for a tie, or two more for passage.

Leach has questioned Bush's war policies for years and was one of five Republicans in May to vote for Congresswoman Lynn Woolsey's amendment requiring an exit strategy. Another of those five, Congressman Ron Paul of Texas, also serves on the International Relations Committee.

"Congressman Leach has broken the silence of the Republican Party on the Downing Street Minutes," said John Bonifaz, Co-Founder of the After Downing Street Coalition. "His willingness to co-sponsor Congresswoman Barbara Lee's Resolution of Inquiry is bound to make the White House nervous. It is not possible for the President to paint this demand for documents as coming solely from his opponents. This is a demand for the truth. Did the president deliberately deceive and mislead the United States Congress and the American people about the basis for going to war against Iraq? We as a people -- from Crawford to Des Moines to Washington, DC, regardless of our political persuasion, deserve to know the answer to that basic question."

"Congress returns to Washington from its summer break on September 6," said David Swanson, Co-Founder of the After Downing Street Coalition. "The first 10 days will test the Democrats' ability to stand together and challenge the Bush Administration, as well as Republicans' willingness to break ranks on an issue where public opinion has diverged widely from White House policy."

The text of the Resolution, H. Res. 375, a list of current co-sponsors, and what you can do to help: http://www.afterdowningstreet.org/?q=node/902

From AfterDowningStreet.org

---

Quote:

---

IS BLAIR OFF TO JOIN $30BN WORLD ELITE? HE'S EYEING UP £250K JOB WITH ARMS TRADE LINK FIRM

Exclusive By Rupert Hamer

TONY Blair is expected to join one of the most exclusive groups of businessmen in the world after he leaves Downing Street.

The PM is being lined up for a highly lucrative position with the Carlyle Group - an American-based investment giant with strong links to the White House and the defence industry....

---

Quote:

---

unrestrained id said:

I'd be happy to provide direct quotes from Rush Limbaugh and David Horowitz if you'd like. Limbaugh's in particular is hysterical. One day after smearing her and getting an unusual amount of heat for it, he denied he ever said what he had said and instead blamed the liberal media misquoting him !

http://mediamatters.org/items/200508180002

What a punk ass!

http://mediamatters.org/items/200508190001

---

What do you expect from a fuckin' junkie?

Quote:

---

MisterJLA said:
OPRAH?

---

You are living your life inside of a breadbox made out of potatoes. You've got to shed your emotional carbs.

Quote:

---

I'd be happy to provide direct quotes from Rush Limbaugh and David Horowitz if you'd like. Limbaugh's in particular is hysterical. One day after smearing her and getting an unusual amount of heat for it, he denied he ever said what he had said and instead blamed the liberal media misquoting him !

http://mediamatters.org/items/200508180002

What a punk ass!

http://mediamatters.org/items/200508190001

---