quote:
Originally posted by Dave the Wonder Boy:
Too bad I don't share your knack for condescending remarks and insulting one-liners.
I wasn't being condescending. My confusion was genuine. You seem to be an intelligent, well informed individual, yet your comment(or, at least, what I took from it) seemed quite the opposite.

As for my "insulting one liners", no malice was intended. I just think that a lot of the things you discredit Islam and it's roots for are also historically apparent in Christianity. If you're offended by that, I'm sorry, but it's my opinion(and, I'm gathering, also the opinion of klinton).

quote:
Perhaps then I could be a liberal as well.
I don't recall disclosing my political leanings to you(and I'd prefer you not assume you know me, when you obviously don't), and I don't see what that has to do with the topic, either. As far as I'm concerned, that's another topic entirely.

quote:
Christian-bashing is quite fashionable, whether or not you have the facts on your side.
I think there's a reason it's "fashionable." I've met quite a few Christians in my brief time as a human being, and I've had to study more of Christian/Jewish history then I'd probably care to otherwise. There's no denying that Christianity has had a fairly sordid past.

quote:
It is fashionable to label Christianity as repressive and ignorant, and give no credit to the many achievements and benevolent social changes that have risen from Christianity.
Now, I don't think anyone labels Christianity as repressive and ignorant, as Christianity is just a religion. It's the people behind the religion and those that perpetuate it's growth that take the brunt of such generalizations.

I'd say that the "many achievements and benevolent social changes"(at least the one's you mention, like universities, science, humanitarian aid, hospitals, and democracy) are products of individuals or groups of people interested in helping societal growth, who, in certain cases, happened to be Christian. Not the church or prominent Christian figures, and not for Christrianity's benefit.

What's more, Christianity has often hindered the development of science. Some of the most famous scientific minds in history have been persecuted, ostricized and even executed because their theories and discoveries contradicted the popular beliefs and traditions of Christian teachings. Look at Galileo, who was imprisoned during the Inquisition in 1633.

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It is not only Bible and Koran quotation that back up what I'm saying, but international news of violence and terrorism, violence toward women, and other repression, in virtually every Muslim nation.
You mention in your post how Christians are often labeled as oppressive and ignorant, then you do the same exact thing to those who practice Islam, here. Islam in no way promotes or supports the oppression of women, or violence of any kind. You'll probably say this is an example of "insulting, smug condescension", but I find that to be very hypocritical and pretentious.

quote:
I would argue that it is the stifling effect of Islam on personal freedom, business and trade that has left the Muslim nations behind the rest of the world. You'd clearly rather blame it on America and Christianity.
I don't blame Christianity or Islam for anything, as I've said before. I blame those that misinterpret it and use it to excuse their actions.