RKMBs Forums .::Important::. Politics and Current Events Islamic ignorance

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magicjay38 said:

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Air crew on the only British airline that flies to Saudi Arabia have been told not to wear crucifixes or St Christopher medals on flights there so as not to offend the country's Muslims.

Stewardesses at BMI have also been told to cover themselves in the long abaya robes that Saudi women have to wear in public before they disembark in the capital Riyadh. In some instances, they are also advised to wear a headscarf.

The airline insists that the rules are part of its "obligation" to "respect the customs" of Saudi Arabia, a strictly conservative Muslim kingdom.

However, one unnamed BMI employee told a Sunday newspaper: "It's outrageous that we must respect their beliefs but they're not prepared to respect ours". BMI are asking too much of their staff on this one.

"My gran gave me a crucifix shortly before she died and I wear it at all times. It's got massive sentimental value and I don't see why I have to remove it."

BMI is the only British carrier currently operating flights to Saudi. It began the service last September, offering three flights a week to Riyadh.

Phil Shepherd, the airline's spokesman, said any staff who did not wish to adhere to the requirements could transfer to short haul routes. There was no difference in salary, he added.

Mr Shepherd also denied a report that up to 40 BMI staff had complained and were planning to take the company to an employment tribunal, insisting that only "one or two" had raised it as an issue.

"There are certain sensitivities in operating in a country like Saudi Arabia," he said.

They weren’t your ordinary thugs. Dressed in bow ties and dark suits, nearly a dozen men carrying metal pipes entered a corner store, shattered refrigerator cases and smashed bottles of liquor, wine and beer, terrifying the clerk but stealing nothing.

The just wanted to leave a message: Stop selling alcohol to fellow Muslims. In urban America, friction between poor residents and immigrant store owners is nothing new. Nor are complaints that inner- city neighborhoods are glutted with markets that sell alcohol and contribute to violent crime, vagrancy and other social ills.

But the recent attack at San Pablo Liquor _ and an identical vandalism spree at another West Oakland store later that evening, along with an arson fire there and the kidnapping of the owner a few days later _ have injected religion into the debate.

The two episodes highlighted tensions _ and different interpretations of the Quran _ between black Muslims in this struggling, crime-ridden city of 400,000 and Middle Eastern shop owners, many of them also Muslims.

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Mid-East crisis deepens

Several Mid-East countries follow Saudi Arabia's lead and take action against Denmark in anger over a newspaper's publication of caricatures of the prophet Mohammed

The diplomatic and commercial storm over twelve caricatures published by daily newspaper Jyllands-Posten continued to rage over the weekend as Kuwait and Libya took action against Denmark.
Saudi Arabia recalled its ambassador from Denmark on Thursday, the same day a boycott against Danish-based international dairy food producer Arla Foods was made public in the Danish press. Libya followed suit on Saturday, recalling its ambassador and closing the country's embassy in Denmark.

The effects of the Saudi Arabian boycott spread over the weekend turning into a blanket ban of Danish goods in serveral Mid-East countries.

Kuwait's largest grocery store chain removed Arla products from its shelves starting on Friday, causing the company to fear for the worst.

'This is serious. The chain is owned by the Kuwaiti government and has a 50 percent market share,' said Finn Hansen of Arla Foods.

In addition, both Kuwait and Jordan have called in the Danish ambassador to explain the Danish government's reaction to Jyllands-Posten's publication of the drawings in September.

After the publication of drawings, Danish Muslims protested over the newspaper's breaking the Islamic taboo of drawing Mohammed. The protests led eleven Muslim ambassadors to request a meeting with the prime minister, Anders Fogh Rasmussen, to discuss the matter.

Rasmussen, however, refused to meet with them, saying that he had no control over the press, and that freedom of expression weighed more heavily than personal feelings.

Danish businesses suffering from the boycott against their products were quick to take steps to distance themselves from the drawings, pointing out that Rasmussen had also done so in his New Year's address to the nation.

Arla is currently the hardest hit of Danish companies operating in the Middle East, but also pump producer Danfoss and insulin maker Novo Nordisk said that their operations had been affected.

On Friday, Hans Skov Christensen, director of the Confederation of Danish Industries, sent an open letter to Jyllands-Posten expressing Danish businesses' frustration that they had been caught up in Jyllands-Posten's defence of freedom of expression.

'The time has come for Jyllands-Posten to use its freedom of speech to explain how they feel about the newspaper's Mohammed drawings having hurt the feelings of large groups of people,' Christiansen said.

In response the growing international criticism of Denmark, Jyllands-Posten printed its own letter to the people of Saudi Arabia in Arabic on the front page of its website explaining why they had printed the drawings and expressing regret that the situation had spread so far.

'It was not our intention to offend anyone or their faith. That it happened anyway was unintended. We have apologised for that many times in the past few months - not only in our newspaper, but also on television, the radio, and in international media,' said Carsten Juste, editor-in-chief of Jyllands-Posten.

In addition to the diplomatic and commercial fray between Denmark and Arab states both militant Muslim groups and international Muslim organisations expressed their anger over the drawings over the weekend.

In the city of Nablus in the West Bank, members of the al-Aqsa Martyr's Brigade and Fatah burned a Danish flag in protest of the drawings.

In Cario, the OIC announced that it was prepared to use the conflict as grounds for asking the UN General Assembly to pass a resolution forbidding attacks on religious faith.

'Consultations are being carried out at the highest level between Arabic countries, and the OIC will request that the UN pass a binding resolution forbidding disdain for religious belief and opening up for the possibility of sanctions against countries and institutions that violate the ban,' said Ahmed Ben Helli, vice secretary general of the Arab League

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Afghan president looks beyond drawings

An official visit by Afghan president Hamid Karzai gets caught up in the storm over Jyllands-Posten's Mohammed drawings

Afghanistan's president, Hamid Karzai, meeting with the Danish prime minister, Anders Fogh Rasmussen, in Copenhagen this weekend, chose to take a positive view of the increasingly volatile conflict over newspaper Jyllands-Posten's caricatures of the prophet Mohammed.
Karzai, in Europe to attend the World Economic Forum, was visiting Denmark to discuss the country's contribution to the reconstruction of Afghanistan.

During a press conference with Rasmussen on Sunday, Karzai criticised Jyllands-Posten's decision to print the 12 caricatures of Mohammed as a 'mistake'.

Nevertheless, he praised the newspaper for placing an open letter in Arabic on its website, stating that it was never its intention to offend anyone's faith.

'Let's look forward from now on. I hope that the press everywhere - in Denmark, in Afghanistan, in Muslim countries, and in non-Muslim countries - will be more respectful and responsible towards other cultures, religions, and views everywhere in the world,' Karzai said.

Karzai, in Denmark for two days before he travels on to London, said he appreciated the prime minister taking the time to discuss the matter with him.

'The prime minister was so kind as to speak with us about this. He said that the press - as we all know - is totally free in Denmark, and that the drawings in the press are not an expression of the Danish people's attitude. We in the Muslim world need to understand that,' Karzai said.

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This man simply is the voice of reason in a culture that, when all cards are on the table, really has slowed down it's own social and political developement.

I've been meaning to ask you folks about something. The last couple of decades it has been the USA which has been the focus of Muslim animosity and anger. Now it's Denmark, are you enjoying the respite?

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Khader confronts fundamentalists

MP Naser Khader spearheads a network of Muslims trying to create a moderate counterweight to extremist groups

Naser Khader's patience with extremist Muslims has expired. The time has come for moderate Muslims to confront extremist groups, the Palesinian-born MP told weekly newspaper Søndagsavisen.
'To be a practicing Muslim is not the same as being an extremist. I'll fight the people who think they can tell me and others how to be a good Muslim. That is a matter between Allah and individual Muslims,' he said.

Together with 120 other Muslims, Khader recently announcd the creation of the Alternative Muslim Network, a group that seeks to provide a voice for moderate Muslims.

Khader hoped the group could provide a historic turning point for a tolerant form of Islam that demonstrated that it is possible to be Muslim, democratic, and Danish.

As one of the country's most prominent Muslims, Khader has found himself in the line of fire from many sides over the years. He is often asked by journalists to act as a spokesperson for the country's 200,000 Muslims, but fundamentalist Muslims have also turned on Khader for what they consider his secular ways.

Despite their criticism, Khader maintains that its possible to be both modern and Muslim.

'The difference between me and the fundamentalists is that I am a Muslim in a dynamic way. Islam should be interpreted based on the contemporary times we live in,' said Khader. 'Fundamentalists say that what is written in the Koran is the truth for all time. That is an opinion we moderate Muslims want to challenge.'

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Cartoons spark violent protests

Images seen as insulting to Islam published in Norway, Denmark


GAZA CITY (AP) -- Masked gunmen on Monday briefly took over a European Union office to protest a Danish newspaper's publication of cartoons deemed insulting to Islam's Prophet Muhammad, the latest in a wave of violent denunciations of the caricatures across the Islamic world.


The gunmen demanded an apology from Denmark and Norway and said citizens of the two countries would be prevented from entering the Gaza Strip.

"We are calling on the citizens of the two countries to take this threat seriously because our cells are ready to implement this all over Gaza," one militant said.

The 12 drawings -- published in September by the Danish newspaper Jyllands-Posten and republished in a Norwegian paper this month -- included an image of the prophet wearing a turban shaped as a bomb with a burning fuse.

Islamic tradition bars any depiction of the prophet, even respectful ones, out of concern that such images could lead to idolatry.

The cartoons have touched off protests, flag burnings and boycotts of Danish products throughout the Muslim world. On Sunday, Palestinian protesters burned Danish flags in two West Bank towns.

In Monday's violence, the gunmen burst into the EU office, then withdrew several minutes later. A group of about 15 masked men, armed with hand grenades, automatic weapons and anti-tank launchers, remained outside, keeping the offices closed. No shots were fired, and there were no reports of injuries.

The gunmen left the building after about half an hour.

The Al Aqsa Martyrs' Brigades, a violent group linked to Palestinian leader Mahmoud Abbas' Fatah Party, claimed responsibility. Al Aqsa has been involved in much of the recent chaos plaguing Gaza.

Jyllands-Posten has refused to apologize for the drawings, citing freedom of speech. The drawings were reprinted on January 10 by Norwegian evangelical newspaper Magazinet in the name of defending free expression, renewing Muslim anger

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Imams accused of doublespeak


Danish imams are blamed for fanning the flames of the on-going conflict over Mohammed caricatures by saying one thing in Danish and something else in Arabic

PM Anders Fogh Rasmussen lashed out at extremist Muslim leaders in Denmark on Thursday for speaking with two tongues in the on-going row between the country and the Muslim world.
Rasmussen said imams' positive comments in Danish about the recent days' thaw in the dispute over newspaper Jyllands-Posten's publication of 12 caricatures of the prophet Mohammed had been undermined by statements made in Arabic to the media from Muslim countries.

'We have clearly noted that in certain situations, some people are speaking with two tongues,' Rasmussen said after meeting the parliament's foreign policy committee. 'The government watches what news and information is circulated in Arabic countries very closely so we can catch false stories and correct them immediately.'

Rasmussen was referring specifically to an incident in which controversial imam Abu Laban said to television station al-Jazeera that he was happy about the Muslim boycott. Later in the day, Laban said to Danish television station TV2 that he would urge Muslims to stop the boycott immediately.

'If Muslim countries decide to boycott, and if Muslims feel that it is their obligation to defend the prophet, then that is something we can be happy about,' Laban said to al-Jazeera.

Other leading imams have also been accused of misleading Muslims outside of Denmark about the situation.

Earlier this week, imam Abu Bashir appeared on BBC World showing a caricature of Mohammed with a pig's snout and ears to representatives of the Arabic League. Bashir falsely claimed that the caricature was one of the 12 Jyllands-Posten drawings.

Neither Laban nor Bashir were available for comment.

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the G-man said:

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The Muslim countries averaged 52.2% "Unfavorable Attitudes" towards Christians, while the U.S. and European countries averaged 32.6% "Unfavorable Attitudes" towards Muslims. So, the Muslim countries "Unfavorable Attitudes" towards Christians were 1.6 times as high as the "Unfavorable Attitudes" of the U.S. and European countries towards Muslims.

For Jews, the Muslim countries averaged "Unfavorable Attitudes" of 79.6%, while the U.S. and European countries averaged 12.2%. So, Muslim countries "Unfavorable Attitudes" towards Jews averaged 6.35 times as high as the U.S. and European countries. It should be noted that the survey question referred to Jews, not to Israels.

Western country responses for "Unfavorable Attitudes" towards Muslims were: U.S. 22%; Britain 14%, France 34%; Germany 47%, Netherlands 51%. It is striking that the U.S. and Britain which are under the most severe criticism because of Iraq, are on the low-end of "Unfavorable Attitudes" towards Muslims.

Muslim country responses for "Unfavorable Attitudes" towards Christians were: Turkey 63%; Pakistan 58%; Jordan 41%; Morocco 61%; Indonesia 38%.

Muslim Country responses for "Unfavorable Attitudes" towards Jews were: Turkey 60%; Pakistan 74%; Jordan 100%; Morocco 88%; Indonesia 76%.

For individual Western country responses the "Unfavorable Attitudes" on Jews were: U.S. 7%; Britain 6%; France 16%; Gemany 21%; Netherlands 11%.

TEGAN WAGNER TELLS HER RAPISTS: GO TO HELL

Saudi Arabia's religious police, normally tasked with chiding women to cover themselves and ensuring men attend mosque prayers, are turning to a new target: cats and dogs. The police have issued a decree banning the sale of the pets, seen as a sign of Western influence.

The prohibition on dogs may be less of a surprise, since conservative Muslims despise dogs as unclean. But the cat ban befuddled many, since Islamic tradition holds that the Prophet Muhammad loved cats - and even let a cat drink from his ablutions water before washing himself for prayers.

The religious police, known as the Muttawa, have the role of enforcing Saudi Arabia's strict Islamic code. Its members prowl streets and malls, ensuring unmarried men and women do not mix, confronting women they feel are not properly covered or urging men to go to prayers. But the government also gives the Muttawa wide leeway to enforce any rules they deem necessary to uphold the social order.

The decree - which applies to the Red Sea port city of Jiddah and the holy city of Mecca - bans the sale of cats and dogs because ''some youths have been buying them and parading them in public,'' according to a memo from the Municipal Affairs Ministry to Jiddah's city government. The memo, obtained by The Associated Press, urges city authorities to help enforce the ban.

Conservatives decry the [pet ownership] trend as a Western influence, just like the fast food, shorts, jeans and pop music that have become more common in the kingdom, which is ruled by the puritanical Wahhabi interpretation of Islam. They say it should be fought because it is threatening the fabric of Gulf nations.

Radical Muslims have conjured up one more reason to rage against America - the Fifth Avenue Apple Store.

A message posted Tuesday on the extremist Al-Hesbah Web site ripped Apple for erecting a glass cube - "clearly meant to provoke Muslims" - outside its new outlet on the corner of West 58th Street.

The posting - translated into English by the Middle East Media Research Institute - called the cube "a blatant insult to Muslims" for its supposed likeness to the Kaaba, a cubic masonry structure situated in the center of the world's most sacred mosque in Mecca.

Yigal Carmon, head of Memri.org, said that Al-Hesbah is one of the "five major Islamist Web sites in the world." It often carries videos of al Qaeda heavies such as Osama bin Laden and Ayman al-Zawahiri.

"These are extremist groups," said Carmon, "but they are serious. It is not a marginal site."

The Memri translation elicited instant outrage in the blogosphere.

"You Muslim a- - - - - -s did not invent the cube nor do you maintain an exclusive monopoly on its use," said one blog posting.

Representatives at Apple tried to downplay the controversy.

"We regret that the comments of these independent bloggers have offended anyone," said Apple spokesman Steve Dowling. "The entrance is not an attempt to resemble the Kaaba."

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the G-man said:
What doesn't offend these fuckers?

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The 2012 London Olympics have been plunged into controversy by the discovery that the Games will clash with Ramadan, the most holy month in the Islamic calendar.

The clash will put Muslim athletes at a disadvantage as they will be expected to fast from sunrise to sunset for the entire duration of the Games.

In 2012, Ramadan will take place from July 21 to August 20, while the Olympics run from July 27 to August 12. An anticipated 3,000 Muslim competitors are expected to be affected. About a quarter of the 11,099 athletes who took part in the 2004 Athens Olympics came from countries with predominantly Muslim populations.

Because the Muslim calendar is based on a lunar cycle, the ninth month of Ramadan - which runs from the appearance of one new crescent moon to the next - gets earlier by around 11 days each year.

Massoud Shadjareh, chairman of the London-based Islamic Human Rights Commission, said: “They would not have organised this at Christmas. It is equally stupid to organise it at Ramadan. It shows a complete lack of awareness and sensitivity.”

“This is going to disadvantage the athletes and alienate the Asian communities by saying they don’t matter.”

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A Liberal Brother at Odds With the Muslim Brotherhood

CAIRO

GAMAL AL-BANNA is 85, and for much of his life he has been overshadowed by his famous brother, Sheik Hassan al-Banna, the founder of the Muslim Brotherhood, the Islamist political party and antecedent of a host of militant Islamist organizations, from Al Qaeda to Hamas.

That seems to have suited him just fine, though. He liked to write, read and think. His sister left him a lot of money, and so for decades, that is exactly how he spent his days.

His bedroom is at one end of a dusty old apartment on a chaotic street in the center of the city. At the other end is his office, his desk piled high with papers. In between are books — some 30,000 of them — arranged neatly on floor-to-ceiling shelves. One section is devoted to the 100 or so books he has written and translated over the course of his lifetime.

But Mr. Banna is no longer living in his brother’s shadow. And, like the organization his brother founded, the younger Mr. Banna is no friend of the establishment, but for quite a different reason. He is a liberal thinker, a man who would like to see Islamic values and practices interpreted in the context of modern times. Egypt’s gatekeepers of religious values, the government-appointed and self-appointed arbiters of God’s word, condemn, dismiss and dispute what he says. They have also banned at least one of his books.

“Gamal al-Banna has opinions that fall outside the scope of religion,” said Sheik Omar el-Deeb, deputy in charge of Al Azhar, the centuries-old seat of Islamic learning in Cairo. “The people, of course, oppose anybody who talks about things that violate religion.”

Mr. Banna likes to wear a blue collarless suit, buttoned to the very top. He prefers sandals to shoes, and wears his thin, wiry white hair swept back. He is often laughing, a kind of knowing chuckle that seems to say he knows better, by virtue of his age and experience.

He doesn’t press his ideas, does not try to wage a contest with the institution of Al Azhar, but instead takes the long-term view, hoping to plant a few seeds that will, in time, take root and spread. He recognizes that, at the moment, the other side is winning the contest of ideas in Egypt, and the region.

“If religion was correctly understood, it would be a power of liberation,” Mr. Banna said. “But it is misunderstood, and so it is driving us backward.”

The views alleged to fall outside religion include those on women: They are not required to wear a veil, as most do in Egypt, Mr. Banna believes; they should not be forced to undergo genital cutting, as most do now in Egypt; and they should be allowed to lead men in prayer, which is forbidden in Egypt.

“My idea is that man is the aim of religion, and religion only a means,” said Mr. Banna. “What is prevalent today is the opposite.”

Egypt, often looked to as a center of moderate Islam, is, like the rest of the Arab world, becoming more conservative and less tolerant of opposing religious views, according to thinkers like Mr. Banna. Since August there have been at least three high-profile cases here where religious officials condemned, or sought to have criminally charged, people or publications promoting religious ideas they deemed offensive.

“When the Muslims used to disagree, they had different schools of thought,” said Sayed el-Qemni, another reform-minded writer who lives in a small city outside of Cairo. “No one would point to the other and say, ‘This is not Islam.’ But when one school of thought says, ‘I am the correct school of thought and everyone else deserves death,’ then you are starting a new religion.”

Mr. Qemni has received death threats for some of his writings, and sleeps with two police officers guarding his house.

BY contrast, Mr. Banna exudes a sense of impunity. That, he says, is not a result of his name, though it is a powerful force in a society where family ties are deeply respected, but because “I am free.”

He is free because he has been careful not to become involved in political movements — and because of his sister, Fawziyya, who left him the equivalent of about $100,000. That is a huge sum in Egypt, especially considering Mr. Banna has no family and lives and works in the same apartment at a nominal rent.

“I am a completely independent man,” he said with a smile. “I am not an employee, I am not in any party, and I am not affiliated with anything — completely independent.”

Mr. Banna was born Dec. 15, 1920, in Mahmudiya, a village in Egypt’s northern Nile Delta, northwest of the capital. The youngest of five children, he moved with his family to Cairo at age 4. His oldest sibling, Hassan, went on to form the Muslim Brotherhood, which is the largest organized opposition group in Egypt, although banned.

Their father, Ahmad Banna, a self-taught prayer leader and religious teacher, supported the family by repairing watches (his small wooden worktable sits in the hall of Gamal’s apartment). The elder Mr. Banna spent years of his life indexing the many thousands of sayings of the Prophet Muhammad, assembling them in a multivolume set that sits on his youngest son’s shelves and inspires the son to this day.

As a young man, Mr. Banna was kicked out of high school after a dispute with an English teacher. He finished his studies at a technical school and did not pursue college, he said, because he knew he wanted to pursue writing. So he went out and began to write. In 1946, he published a book, “A New Democracy,” which included a chapter titled “Toward a New Understanding of Islam.”

MR. BANNA says one of the fundamental problems with religious leaders in Egypt is that they look to the interpretations of their ancestors and not to the Koran itself. To look directly at the book, and not at the words as interpreted by men living in a different time, would have a liberating effect, he says.

Many of his ideas challenge the core beliefs of the radical Muslims who have been driving the religious agenda in the region. Some Islamists say, for example, that elected governments are un-Islamic because people must follow God’s law, or Shariah, and not that of a parliament.

But Mr. Banna says the radicals are guilty of pursuing the very logic they say is un-Islamic. They would impose what amounts to their interpretation of the Koran onto other Muslims. That, he says, is no different than relying on a parliament to pass laws, as both are a result of man’s intervention, not divine revelation.

Islam, he says, needs to be seen in a modern context. “Because Islam is the last of religions, if it was rigid and closed, it could not stand the changes of the ages,” he said.

Mr. Banna does not deliver his message as a lecture. He speaks casually, slipping between English and Arabic, smiling, waving his hands. He has his own name now, and a philosophy quite different from the Islamist organization his brother founded.

Unlike the Brotherhood, he has stayed far from politics, but that does not mean he is apolitical. On the contrary, Mr. Banna says he believes that the reason his ideas have not gained momentum is that political freedom in Egypt is stifled by the nation’s rulers.

“They want only power,” he said. “They don’t want freedom of thought. Free thought, that will condemn them.”

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the G-man said:
The next huge Muslim seethe-fest will be over the 2012 London Olympics:

The 2012 London Olympics have been plunged into controversy by the discovery that the Games will clash with Ramadan, the most holy month in the Islamic calendar.

The clash will put Muslim athletes at a disadvantage as they will be expected to fast from sunrise to sunset for the entire duration of the Games.

In 2012, Ramadan will take place from July 21 to August 20, while the Olympics run from July 27 to August 12. An anticipated 3,000 Muslim competitors are expected to be affected. About a quarter of the 11,099 athletes who took part in the 2004 Athens Olympics came from countries with predominantly Muslim populations.

Because the Muslim calendar is based on a lunar cycle, the ninth month of Ramadan - which runs from the appearance of one new crescent moon to the next - gets earlier by around 11 days each year.

Massoud Shadjareh, chairman of the London-based Islamic Human Rights Commission, said: “They would not have organised this at Christmas. It is equally stupid to organise it at Ramadan. It shows a complete lack of awareness and sensitivity.”

“This is going to disadvantage the athletes and alienate the Asian communities by saying they don’t matter.”

And I think we all know what happens when radical Islam feels "alienated."

Any one want to predict how long until the International Olympic Committee caves in to pressure (and the inevitable threats) and reschedules the games?

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A Muslim doctors’ leader has provoked an outcry by urging British Muslims not to vaccinate their children against diseases such as measles, mumps and rubella because it is “un-Islamic”.

Dr Abdul Majid Katme, head of the Islamic Medical Association, is telling Muslims that almost all vaccines contain products derived from animal and human tissue, which make them “haram”, or unlawful for Muslims to take.

Islam permits only the consumption of halal products, where the animal has had its throat cut and bled to death while God’s name is invoked.

Iranian, Iraqi Shiites beat themselves during rituals in Tehran, Iran

Toilets in one London prison are getting a face-lift — or rather, a change in direction — to accommodate Muslim inmates who can't use them while facing Mecca

Islamic code prohibits Muslims from facing or turning their backs on the direction of prayer when they use the bathroom. Muslim prisoners complained of having to sit sideways on toilets so as to not break code.

Faith leaders in the government pressured officials to approve turning the toilets 90 degrees at HMP Brixton in London.

A Muslim American rights worker commended the London prison system for their actions, but said the problem, so far, doesn't appear to be an issue in the U.S.

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the G-man said:
London Prison Changes Direction of Toilets in Respect to Islamic Law

Toilets in one London prison are getting a face-lift — or rather, a change in direction — to accommodate Muslim inmates who can't use them while facing Mecca

Islamic code prohibits Muslims from facing or turning their backs on the direction of prayer when they use the bathroom. Muslim prisoners complained of having to sit sideways on toilets so as to not break code.

Faith leaders in the government pressured officials to approve turning the toilets 90 degrees at HMP Brixton in London.

A Muslim American rights worker commended the London prison system for their actions, but said the problem, so far, doesn't appear to be an issue in the U.S.

So far = any day now. Watch your taxes go up to retrofit all the prisons, kids.

This is getting so fucking ridiculous, all this attempting to "understand" Islam.

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Matt Kennedy said:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Wednesday:
<strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Dave the Wonder Boy:

I find this sweeping statement about Christianity unfounded and insulting. It clearly has a contempt for Christianity, a level of bias and contempt that makes me wonder if the rest of what the writer says could possibly be accurate.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Funny that you would disagree with one of the few points from the original article that I actually agree with.

The idea that the scriptures of Christianity, Islam, and most any other religion share the common potential of misuse has been proven time and time again throughout history. If you don't believe that the teachings of Christianity can be interpreted in many different ways, review this thread.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Dave the Wonder Boy:

Islam is far more conquest-oriented and brutal at its root. The early spread of Islam was through conquest for hundreds of years, and putting any in conquered areas who would not convert to Islam "to the sword".
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Muslims ruled Spain for roughly 800 years and during that time, the non-Muslims there were alive and flourishing. Christian and Jewish minorities have survived in the Muslim lands of the Middle East for centuries. Countries such as Lebanon, Syria, Egypt, and Jordan all have Christian and/or Jewish populations. If Islam taught that all people are supposed to be killed or forced to become Muslims, how did all of these non-Muslims survive for so long in the middle of the Islamic Empire?

After Christianity gained dominance in the Roman Empire, it became clear that they regarded their God as very authoritarian in nature. Christians then began imitating their God and become exceptionally authoritarian themselves. Controlling society, they ruthlessly exterminated other religious beliefs, with only Judaism being permitted to co-exist with their own One True Faith.

I'm not trying to bash Christianity here, just point out that it's not as innocent as you portray. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Well said, Wednesday.

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