RKMBs Forums .::Important::. Politics and Current Events This is the start of something fucking disgusting

There was just a series of explosions in Kabul, Afghanistan.

An eye for an eye. A tooth for a tooth. A life for a life. These are the hardcore principles found in the texts of many religions. God's vengence, His holy wrath. Justified. Rightous.

Bullshit.

Right now I am shaking so badly that words are failing me. Because I can see where this whole clusterfuck day could be headed.

Today, we suffered a horrific tragedy. The United States has been hurt in a way it has never been hurt before. Not just physically, but symbollically as well. The World Trade Center, the twin towers, pinnacles of the financial status and power of this country. Rising far above all other buildings in the world, struck down by planes of our own. A mortal blow dealt to the pursuit of wealth. The Pentagon. The ultimate military fortress, the base of America's military might. From our security within it's five sided walls, we command mighty batallions and determine the course of the world.

Gone. Or struck down to the point where scars can never be erased.

We lost more than the lives of the innocents today. We lost the spirit of the nation.

We are told that the attack upon Kabul was not a retalitory strike by the United States. Do they honestly mean to tell us that there have never been contingency plans in the event of a terrorist attack from well organized terrorists hiding out in Afghanistan? And even more surprising, that they would not be used with immediate haste? The US may be arrogant in it's dealings, but that's just plain gullibility.

Kabul was the political base for Afghanistan, which makes it an ideal target. Even more so because it was not the religious base of that nation. To stike upon the political base would be viewed as punishment to their government's policies. To strike upon the religious base would be to make martyrs and bring forth a religious war unlike none have ever seen.

Today's strike on our nation has been compared more than once to Pearl Harbor. Keep in mind that Pearl Harbor could have been avoided; I'll refrain from listing the evidence for space considerations, read up on it yourself for more info. Anyways, Seeing the multiple comparisons between the two tragedies, does that not raise the question on why it was not known that this was going down, and followed up by Why did we not stop it?

This is just the beginning, children. In a state of national emergency, the rights of the citizens are not taken into account. To what length will the government go to to seek out any and all potential threats to the state of national security? Why can we not just mourn our losses and seek out a way to make compromises with other world powers? Because that would be a sign of weakness on the governments behalf. And if there is one thing that people in power can not stand it is to have their power threatened. To save face in the light of our loss, I can only weep for the other innocents who will be hurt in the pursuit of our vengence.

Today was a terrible day. Tommorrow will only be worse.

Obviously these terrorists have no care for their lives or anybody elses so what good is bombing them going to do?
There has to be another answer, what it is I don't know but immediate retaliation is not the answer.
I hear Congress is conveaning tonight, I hope for once our leaders can have some answers.

US is denying responsibility for the bombings...

The rebels in Afghanistan are taking credit for it.

Hmmm...somehow, I think that those Afghani rebels have really close ties to Special Forces of the US Military....

Possibly...Speculation won't help matters right now, though.

I disagree with some of those statements. Or rather, see them as only half of the story.

First off, we are all very biased in our way of thinking. I can safely assume that all of us are christian or come from a christian background. Hence, many of our values are based upon that ideology. With christianity being a mutually exclusive religion, we believe that anyone who has not chosen Christ as thier own savior is wrong. Over the centuries, a bit more tolerance has come about. Now it's along the lines of "whoever doesn't think what we think is wrong." Yeah, that's a big difference.

Very few people are able to examine other religions and accept them as being valid in some way.

Now, I am not promoting one religion over another. And before I go further, know that with every innocent life lost I lose a bit of myself. Killing is killing, whether for duty, profit, or fun. I long for peace, but the only thing that I can do is try to understand the why of war.

The purpose of this post is to show the mindset where these actions can be considered concievable.

Take into mind the foundations of Islam. The middle east. Desert. Resources vital to life are scarce, so life is generally tough. They had to belive that after they die, that there was something better waiting for them. Unlike christians, who after death go to be with God; muslims die and go to another world. Not just in spirit, but bodily as well. What awaits them there is a pure paradise of lush greens, flowing rivers, excellent wine, songs, and orgies.

But in order to get to this land, they have one and only one shot during life to prove themselves worthy to Allah. They must live their life by traditions, using the Koran as a guide. The Koran is only meant to be a guide, and as such is open to many interpretations. And what greater sacrifice can be made than to give your life in the name of your god? Those casulties involved are percieved to be along for the ride of a greater good.

Traditions instruct muslims to treat one another as they would be treated themselves, but that clause only extends to other muslims. Take another look at that line. In so many words, it identifies Islam as another mutually exclusive religion. Those who do not believe the way we do must be wrong.

Sounds familiar. Same message, but from a different perspective.

We are all more alike than we believe ourselves to be. Muslim extremists see the US sanctions as a warlike act upon them. So they retaliate with terrorist bombings and horrendous tragedies. We have been hurt in what we term an act of war. We vow vengence upon those responsible. The ones responsible for Kabul's bombing becomes irrelevant. The United States has vowed vengence. And rest assured, they will make good on their claim.

Evil begets evil. Where does it stop? At what point do we stop and mourn our dead? When do put an end to the death toll and go on with a life unburdened by hatred and vengence? This is the point where speculation becomes vital to us as not a nation, not a race, but as a species. To what end do we ensure that we have the last, and baddest punch in? At what expense? The answer is obvious. At all costs. That include the inalienable rights granted to all sentient beings. Life. Liberty. The pusuit of hapiness. Who will make the effort to stop the global scale slug fest? Religious fanatics? Unlikely. That means that it will have to be our governement. That further means that it has to start with you, and with me.

you had me then you lost me....

Masque, aren't you a Druid or something? Look, to call everyone here or derive a Christian background is kind of an assumption. My mom is Catholic, my Father Hindu, I attended Sunday school for a year, but I am utterly arregilious. I believe in ethics or some kind of moral code. Kind of like that notion of what's in the Constitution, you have a right to freedom and your rights extend only as far as they do not infrindge or endanger the rights of others.

It's a very simple philosophy. Yet extending beyond that isolationist/indifferent attitude are "Good/bad", "order/chaos" "light/dark", "yin/yang". You can be a compassionate being who symathizes and knows the concept of empathy, allowing you to know what others are going through and help them and be charitable and caring, regardles of race, sex, religion, age or what. Or you can be evil. You can hate and stick to your own and refuse the beliefs of compromise and co-existence and not acknowledge the importance of life.

I choose the former. Leitchze says there are no true good and evil because various cultures (such as the Islamic faith or even Catholics during the Inquisition) believe they must do all necessary for the glory of God. By not believing in religion, I believe that we are ultimately responsible for our actions, and must act in a humane, compassionate manner. Lietzche is wrong. There is evil, and we have seen it many times.

That was a mistake on my behalf, I intended to type "most here come from a christian background" not all.

No, I'm not a druid. I consider myself through the catholic church's viewpoint as a heretic, as I express myself spiritually in the role of the satan-el, the adversary. I bring forth challenges to others to strenghten their own faith. By no means do I try to tempt them away from their beliefs, but rather I test them to see if they know why they believe the way they do. But that has no bearing on the current issues at hand.

Today former president George Bush called for less restrictions to be placed on the intelligence community. What does this mean? Implied, it opens the door for the invasion of privacy of the citizens by the government agencies. That's one of our rights in jeopardy now.

Where is this headed? Any individual deemed to be a potential threat to local, state, or national security will be brought under close scrutiny and reasons for prosecution will be made, whether or not anything has been done.

When I was in high school, I was subject to similar treatment. Because I was disillusioned by the educational system I was in, and made my views known to the student body and administration, the school administration attempted to have me expelled as being a potential threat. My locker was illegally searched without prior notice or consent, the purpose to find anything which may be used against me in a court of law. In the end, nothing could be done against me because I had done nothing wrong. It would have been illegal to take any action against me.

But what can come of such laws now? If this is headed where I believe it to be headed, any individual who expresses a point of view that is deemed inappropriate to the intrests of the nation, will be marked and persecuted. There is a new black list, not unlike the ones seen against the steel industry workers decades ago from Carnegie's companies. If you aren't familiar with those, then compare to the McCarthy trials of suspected communists.

War has been declared by our government. But against an unknown quantity, each strike will only bring more retaliation from another sect. More will rise up to fill their losses. The only casualties in the end will be you and me. We are not safe. We never have been. Now we are going to give our attackers more "excuses" to hate and destroy us.

I weep. I weep the innocent lives lost for no purpose. I weep the crumbling of our freedom. I weep for those who are blinded by ignorance. I weep for humanity.

[QB]War has been declared by our government. [/BQ]

No, sir. Not unless you're posting from somewhere in Afghanistan, it hasn't.

War has been declared upon our government.

We do have freedoms, and there is a natural balance between too much and too little. Think of yin and yang, chaos and order, the spoiled child. The lenience is nice, but can have it's drawbacks. "He said he was going to kill people and blow up the school, but I didn't take him seriously..."

There is freedom of speech, right to bare arms... Freedom of press was used poorly today, as reporters donned firefighter and police suits to get closeup shots of the action. This shows that notion of "give them an inch and they will walk all over you."

I respect our freedoms, but some whine about how we can't smoke pot and all the things we can't do. Gas prices are too high and all these other things.

Anyways, to preserve integrity and order in a growingly chaotic state where morals decrease (as is a reflection of what you see on tv, trust me it is). People respect each other less and hold individual rights with higher disregard. In order to protect man, more steps need to be taken, order must be preserved, if my rights must be violated from time to time, I accept that, as long as others are prevented from causing harm.

Ideal society? Either Switzerland or Singapore. Order and clean. India shows what happens when chaos and population run rampant in a democracy. Poverty is widespread, wealthy not had but by a few, and there is mass corruption.