RKMBs Forums .::Important::. Politics and Current Events another reason why i'd vote for john mccain

Quote:

---

whomod said:
I can see McCain working with the Democrats, i can see him working with our allies rather than belittling and bullying his way to his goals.

---

Quote:

---

the G-man said:
Actually, I think the record would show that McCain is possibly even more of a hawk than Bush.

This is the guy who, after Sept 11, stated "May God Have Mercy on them because we will not."

---

Quote:

---

ZOD said:
FDR never saw combat...

---

Quote:

---

Very true, and he did an admirable job during the hellish years of WWII.

---

Quote:

---

Darknight613 said:
I'd trust a president who has seen actual combat to lead us into war more than one who has not. A combat veteran knows what it's like in the field, knows what it's like to be under fire (especially one with McCain's record), and may not be willing to send soldiers into danger unnecessarily.

I find it difficult to believe that a combat veteran would put soldiers through what he went through unless it was serious (or unless the guy was a total bastard

---

Quote:

---

Darknight613 said:

Quote:

---

the G-man said:
Actually, I think the record would show that McCain is possibly even more of a hawk than Bush.

This is the guy who, after Sept 11, stated "May God Have Mercy on them because we will not."

---

If anybody was going to lead us into war against terrorists and Iraq these past couple of years, I'd rather it have been McCain, for several reasons - but I'm only going to mention one.

McCain's years as a POW aside, he's seen combat duty. We can debate Bush's military record from now until Doomsday, but it's a fact that he was never in actual combat. I'd trust a president who has seen actual combat to lead us into war more than one who has not. A combat veteran knows what it's like in the field, knows what it's like to be under fire (especially one with McCain's record), and may not be willing to send soldiers into danger unnecessarily.

Therefore if a combat veteran president were to send troops into harm's way, I'd be much more likely to trust that it was for a worthy cause. Because I find it difficult to believe that a combat veteran would put soldiers through what he went through unless it was serious (or unless the guy was a total bastard, but McCain doesn't seem like that kind of guy).

But that's just me.

---

Quote:

---

the G-man said:

The simple fact of the matter is that you can't stereotype the military in this way...good or bad...some former soliders may be less willing to lead us in...others might be more willing.
You need to judge candidates as individuals, and upon their views.

---

Quote:

---

britneyspearsatemyshorts said:
You could also look at the flip side and say maybe a minus for a combat veteran would be that he might hesitate where perhaps he shouldnt because of his experiences. I think that the ideal leader wouldnt necessarily have to be or not be a combat veteran. I think your ideal leader in times of war surrounds himself with advisors with experience in various enviroments and listens openly to their advice....

---

Quote:

---

March 22, 2004 E-mail story Print


Kerry Gets Some Help From GOP Senator

WASHINGTON — Sen. Charles Hagel of Nebraska on Sunday became the second Republican senator to break ranks with the Bush-Cheney campaign's characterization of John F. Kerry, the presumptive Democratic nominee, as soft on defense issues.

Hagel joined fellow Vietnam veteran Sen. John McCain (R-Ariz.) in criticizing ads sponsored by the Bush campaign that call Kerry, a senator from Massachusetts who also is a Vietnam veteran, "weak on defense."

"The facts just don't measure [up to]the rhetoric," Hagel said on ABC's "This Week."

One ad includes video footage of Kerry in West Virginia last week, responding to a charge that he had failed to support U.S. troops in Iraq by opposing the $87-billion military funding bill last fall. "I actually did vote for the $87 billion, before I voted against it," he said — a phrase the Bush campaign seized upon as showing the Massachusetts senator flip-flopping on issues.

"You can take a guy like John Kerry, who's been in the Senate for 19 years, and go through that voting record," Hagel said. "You can take it with … any of us, and pick out different votes, and then try to manufacture something around that."

Kerry's staff said he was trying to indicate his support for an amendment funding the appropriation from increased taxes on the wealthiest Americans. When that amendment failed, he voted against the bill.

Discussing the Bush campaign charges, McCain told the "Today" show on Thursday, "I do not believe that he is, quote, weak on defense. He's responsible for his voting record, as we are all responsible for our records, and he'll have to explain it. But, no, I do not believe that he is necessarily weak on defense."

That show of support added to earlier speculation that McCain might bolt the GOP to join the Democratic ticket — an idea he emphatically shot down Sunday by saying: "I will not leave the Republican Party — end of story."

Appearing on "Fox News Sunday," McCain was joined by Sen. Joe Lieberman (D-Conn.) in decrying what Lieberman called the "tit-for-tat partisan attack" coming from each campaign last week. In sharp comments from both sides Thursday, Vice President Dick Cheney questioned Kerry's fitness to serve as commander in chief, while Kerry accused President Bush of overextending U.S. troops overseas and alienating U.S. allies.

"If it stays with this tone — and it is the tone of the campaigns as much as it is specific words — [if] the tone doesn't change, you're going to see low voter turnout, particularly amongst young Americans, and that's not healthy," said McCain, a primary challenger in 2000.

"Let's keep it civil, so we don't get so nasty that we discourage people from coming out and voting in a very important election," said Lieberman, who sought the Democratic presidential nomination this year. "Don't say that the opposition is evil. They may be wrong, but they're not evil."

---

Quote:

---

the G-man said:
Actually, I believe Clarke is a Democrat. He was a holdover from the Clinton administration. I leave it to the reader to determine whether or not that makes his current accounts biased.

---

OH DAMN!! YOU'RE RIGHT!!

YOU GOT ME!!

He's another democrat with an irrational hatred of Bush!!!

Except of course that he also worked for Reagan, he also worked for George Herbert Walker Bush and he also voted for John McCain in the last election.

As you did, i'll leave it to the reader to figure out if you don't have some irrational bias and/or need to discredit the man.

Quote:

---

April 6, 2004



The McCain equation

The GOP senator has been closer to Kerry than to Bush, but he's silent on if those ties might affect the race.

By Mark Z. Barabak, Times Staff Writer

John McCain won't talk about John F. Kerry.

Which is a pity for those who enjoy news of the man-bites-dog, black-is-white, day-is-night variety.

One of the last times McCain spoke publicly about his friend and Senate colleague, he said he might become Kerry's vice presidential running mate, if the opportunity arose. Never mind the implausibility of the two — a Southwestern moderate conservative and Northeastern moderate liberal — comfortably coexisting in the White House. The sheer audacity of such a blending was enough to electrify insiders for a few hours last month, until McCain pulled the plug with a bland statement ruling it out.

But then, just a few days later, McCain popped up on another of the morning chat shows, this time disputing the notion that Kerry was some kind of national security wimp, as suggested in President Bush's campaign ads. "No, I do not believe he is, quote, 'weak on defense,' " McCain said of the presumptive Democratic nominee. "I don't agree with him on some issues, clearly, but I decry the negativism that's going on on both sides."

That one stoked flame-throwers on the right — many of whom loathe McCain — who tore into the Arizona Republican for not only failing to toe the party line but also trampling all over it.

And so McCain won't discuss Kerry (D-Mass.) these days.

"Appearing in a piece like this just adds fuel to the speculation fire," said McCain spokesman Marshall Wittmann, explaining the senator's refusal to be interviewed.

Leaving one to ask: What motivates McCain, who continues to beguile and irritate four years after a rollicking and, ultimately, losing bid for the Republican presidential nomination?

Is it the bond he and Kerry forged as Vietnam vets — a former prisoner of war and former protester — who came together to help a nation bind its wounds over the bitter conflict? "It's the 'Band of Brothers' phenomenon," said Douglas Brinkley, a University of New Orleans historian, who interviewed both for his book on Kerry's Vietnam service. "Either you went to 'Nam or you didn't."

Is it McCain's long-standing distaste for the grubbier side of politics, the mudslinging and mooching off donors, which resulted in the campaign finance overhaul bill that bears his name? "He's a guy who believes in trying to find common sense and the truth in politics," said Kerry, who celebrates his friendship with McCain in the forward of "Call to Service," his campaign book.

"He's not interested in the rat-a-tat. He's interested in real issues."

Or is it McCain's way of needling Bush and the people who put him in the White House, after a brutal primary fight that left hard feelings on both sides?

"He's not the kind of person who goes around screaming about past injustices," said one veteran of the 2000 campaign, who spoke anonymously because of the senator's wish not to contribute to this article. "But John McCain knows how to get under George Bush's skin, and he enjoys doing it."

One thing is clear: McCain remains an unlikely political force, and not because he tries to please people. "There are two types of guys in this town: those that get ulcers and those that give ulcers," said Scott Reed, a Washington lobbyist and Republican strategist. "John McCain is clearly the latter."

And although some Republicans — the Bush team among them — "roll their eyes … , at the end of the day they take McCain seriously," Reed said.

Given his widespread popularity, they have little choice.

Common ground

In 1985, McCain and Kerry appeared on a public television program marking the 10th anniversary of the fall of Saigon. Among the sad legacies of the Vietnam War, McCain said, was the poison the conflict introduced into the nation's politics. "We find people impugning each other's patriotism, motivations [and] dedication to peace and freedom, which is totally unfortunate and demeans the level of debate," said McCain, then a sophomore congressman.

Kerry didn't necessarily agree. "I'm not sure that it isn't healthy that we are asking the questions we are asking and being as inquisitive and demanding as we are," he said.

The two were not friendly. McCain spent 5 1/2 years as a prisoner of war in Hanoi, learning of the growing antiwar movement back home from fellow POWs, who tapped out messages on his cell wall. In 1984, McCain opposed Kerry in his first race for U.S. Senate, denouncing him for tossing away his ribbons during a protest at the U.S. Capitol.

Their relationship thawed a few years later when McCain and Kerry were together on a flight to Kuwait for an inspection tour after the Persian Gulf War. The two began talking about their shared Vietnam experience, and by "daybreak we shared a new understanding — and a new friendship," Kerry wrote in his campaign book.

Their friendship grew during a Senate investigation that settled the touchy question of whether American prisoners were still being held in Vietnam. The work — steeped in grief, anger and wild conspiracy theories — was a nightmare, said Frances Zwenig, who directed the committee staff. "It was also one of the most worthwhile things any of us have ever done."

During one particular venomous hearing, when an activist accused McCain of betraying his country and fellow veterans, Kerry laid a calming hand on his colleague's arm.

In 1995, McCain and Kerry stood together in the White House, symbols of reconciliation, as President Clinton announced the normalization of diplomatic ties to Vietnam.

Still, for all of that, the two are leagues apart on most issues, making their political pairing seem more workable in the abstract than it probably would be in reality. As McCain put it, "It's impossible to imagine the Democratic Party seeking a pro-life, free-trading, non-protectionist, deficit hawk." Privately, McCain has groused that Kerry is making more of their friendship, for political sake, than he would like.

"The bottom line is that, while Sen. Kerry is a friend, Sen. McCain supports President Bush for reelection," said Wittmann, McCain's spokesman.



Chilly relations

The thing that makes the McCain-Kerry relationship so intriguing — apart from the odd-bedfellows business — is the tortured McCain-Bush relationship.

The two got along well enough during most of the 2000 primary season. Then McCain buried Bush in a New Hampshire landslide and the race headed to South Carolina, home to possibly the meanest politics in America. The contest started on the low road and quickly descended from there. Bush appeared alongside the head of a fringe group that accused McCain of abandoning the nation's veterans. (Kerry circulated a letter signed by the Senate's four other Vietnam vets, condemning the attack.)

The anonymous smear campaign was even uglier. McCain was accused of fathering a child with a black prostitute, and pictures of his adopted daughter, a Bangladeshi orphan, were circulated as proof. Stories of his wife's past addiction to painkillers were also widely disseminated. McCain seethed. He also lost South Carolina, and with it any chance at the nomination. (For their part, Bush and his aides were livid over phone calls placed to Michigan voters painting Bush as anti-Catholic.) After quitting the GOP race and waiting two months, McCain finally endorsed Bush — literally through clenched teeth. "Take the medicine now," is how McCain described it.

Their relationship has scarcely improved since. Although McCain has sided with Bush more often than not — he was a leading advocate of war with Iraq — he has differed often enough to be a continued pain in the president's backside. He opposed the 2001 tax cut at the centerpiece of Bush's domestic agenda. He allied with Democrats seeking stiffer rules on gun show sales and new rights for medical patients. Most famously, he pushed the campaign finance legislation that bears his name — and which Bush reluctantly signed into law. In a pointed snub, McCain was informed by a mid-level White House aide, who called him at home.

Slights like that fueled the resentment that still smolders inside many McCain loyalists. Some were insulted when the senator was asked to campaign earlier this year for Bush in New Hampshire. The result was a listless appearance, with McCain barely mentioning either Bush or the Democrats running. "You don't ask a guy to go back to the high point of his candidacy to campaign in what is essentially a meaningless event," griped one of the senator's friends.

For the record, Bush campaign officials say they are pleased McCain has agreed to serve as co-chairman of the president's Arizona effort. Bush "understands that we have a party where people can have different ideas," said Scott Stanzel, a campaign spokesman. "But in the end, President Bush is going to work with members of Congress, including Sen. McCain, to make sure we grow the economy and have an aggressive policy to fight and win the war on terror."

Honesty is his policy

With McCain you either take it or leave it. The quality that so aggrieves many fellow Republicans — his willingness to state what he thinks, regardless — is what others find so appealing.

Last week, McCain criticized Bush's conduct of the war in Iraq, as well as the Republican Party's stand on the environment and minority issues.

"From a partisan standpoint, I wish he wouldn't say some of what he says," said Tucson's Mike Hellon, who serves on the Republican National Committee. "On the other hand, and I've told him this, the single most important element of his overwhelming popularity is his candor. People know when he speaks that he's telling what he thinks without any varnish or veneer. In today's political environment, that's an unusual asset."

McCain is easily the most popular politician in Arizona, polls show, and much better liked than Bush. But his greatest strength is his national appeal to Democrats and independents, those very people Bush needs to woo and win in November.

"If I were writing a memo to Ed Gillespie [the Republican Party chairman], I would tell him, 'Be thankful you've got guys like John McCain,' "said one of the senator's closest advisors.

By swallowing hard — taking their medicine — Bush and his team can only hope that McCain will help more than hurt once he starts talking about Kerry again.

---

Quote:

---

Rob Kamphausen said:
huh.

that was probably the silliest article i've ever read. not "silly" as in "this is so horrible, and i hate you." i meant "silly" as in.... that was so frickin silly!

and, aside from some weird, attempted "oooOOooooh, they're kissing!!" plotline... i didn't see anything. no weird, fucktardian spin. certainly not yer style, whomod!

seriously, wuzzis just an honest "relating to mccain, so i'll put it in that thread" post? wuzzer somethin else i was sposda get from it?

---

That article was actually from the entertainment website 'calendarlive' so I doubt it was meant as "hard news".

Sometimes an article is just an article. It made a few points which I thought pertinent. Namely that to be a Republican (or Democrat for that matter) you don't have to behave as if you're somehow 'at war' with the enemy. You can have partisan differences without feeling the need to destroy your enemy as McCain proves. Truly a class act. Really nothing major or deep but something elementary that tends to be lost among all the attack and 'traitor' rhetoric that seems to come nowadays. I dig McCain actually acting as if the opposition party is just that, an opposition party, not an enemy nation or some betrayers of mom and apple pie. He's not running around declaring that Kerrey hates America or something equally boneheaded. And he'll actually take a stand against unfair character assasination because it's the right thing to do. Something completely just and christian as well.

Now if posting this was uncharacteristic, i have to admit I was a bit taken aback by your posts these past couple of days. You Rob seem to be uncharectaristically partisan of late. Must be an election nearby.

Quote:

---

britneyspearsatemyshorts said:
whomods dictionary

partisan: those who disagree with whomods conspiracy theories

---

Quote:

---

whomod said:
That article was actually from the entertainment website 'calendarlive' so I doubt it was meant as "hard news". Sometimes an article is just an article.

---

Quote:

---

whomod said:It made a few points which I thought pertinent. Namely that to be a Republican (or Democrat for that matter) you don't have to behave as if you're somehow 'at war' with the enemy. You can have partisan differences without feeling the need to destroy your enemy as McCain proves. Truly a class act.

---

Quote:

---

whomod said:I dig McCain actually acting as if the opposition party is just that, an opposition party, not an enemy nation or some betrayers of mom and apple pie. He's not running around declaring that Kerrey hates America or something equally boneheaded. And he'll actually take a stand against unfair character assasination because it's the right thing to do.

---

Quote:

---

whomod said:i have to admit I was a bit taken aback by your posts these past couple of days. You Rob seem to be uncharectaristically partisan of late. Must be an election nearby.

---