quote:Originally posted by rufusTfirefly: Ya know...I can understand Franta's *frustration* (for lack of a better term) with the whole Jordan thing. Not living in Chicago, it's hard for people to understand how annoying Jordan-mania can get. Don't get me wrong, I'm a huge basketball fan (that's where Franta and I differ) and a huge fan of Da Bulls, with and without Jordan. I have all kinds of Bulls and Jordan memorabelia laying around the house. I even watch some the old games on ESPN:Classic Sports whenever I get a chance. But, Jesus. The guy left town five years ago. Get over it. I got sick of every single new show dedicating 10 minutes or more to him every night for a week leading up to the game last week. It really got sickening. Outside Chicago, it might have gotten a few seconds on the sports segment of the local news broadcast, but here, it's all people have been talking about since the Wizards came through about three weeks ago. "How long an ovation will he get?" "Will his presence intimidate the Baby Bulls?" "Should they do anything special for him?" Jeezus...It's been made pretty obvious over the last five years or so, that M Jeff didn't want to play for The Bulls anymore. It's was made even more obvious that The Bulls organ-I-zation didn't really want him involved anymore either. Several years ago, we said our Thank You's. We said our Goodbye's. We retired his number (twice!) They even unofficially retired his other number (45). Christ, they build a fucking statue to the man. He said his goodbyes and said he was done with us. Time for Chicago, the local media, and the Jordan Ass-licking society to move on. But they won't. Before Jordan came along, nobody in Chicago cared about The Bulls. After he left, nobody cares about them now. All they gave a shit about was Jordan. Cell phone fans sit in their $250 seats at the UC and don't care what's going on (cell phone fans being those idiots who sit in the first couple of rows at basketball and baseball games talking on the phone to their friends asking "did you see me on teevee during the last time-out? They were right in front of me!!! Look, I can wave my arms like an idiot!!!")
I just want to see good basketball. I look forward to the future (I can't help it, I'm a Cubs fan...) I think that when Tyson Chandler learns how to rebound, he'll be a perenial all-star. I think that if Jay Williams can keep his turnovers down, he can be a future stud also. I think that if Eddie Curry can turn about twenty pounds of flab into muscle, and start throw bodies around in the paint, he can be one of the premier centers in the east (not really too hard considering the competition...) And if they can trade off Fizer and Jamal Crawford for an established leader, I think they'll be playoff bound next year. I have hopes for the future of this team, I just wish the rest of the so-called "fans" would...
quote:Originally posted by britneyspearsatemyshorts: now your jumping to conclusions, i have no hatred towards anyone, nor does Franta. because we detest headlines being given to a sweat shop endorser a pedophile befriender doesnt make us haters......
quote:Originally posted by THE Franta: As far as Jordan is making more than civil servants,"Thats the way it" kinda like the response people had initially to Hitler isnt it?
..............................no.
Nobody responded to Hitler as "that's the way it is." Hitler was a maniac who killed millions of innocent people because he needed a scapegoat to rule a country. I think you can at the very least admit that what I'm talking about is much, much, much different.
quote:Thats the way it is so we shouldnt talk about it?
No!
Where did I say that? Where did I say anything even remotely like that?
"That's the way it is", so don't take out your problems on people who have nothing to do with it.
quote:You hope people DON'T follow the lead of bsams and myself and provide recognition for the civil servant but rather fawn over celebrites and athletes?!?!?!
No, Franta.
I hope people don't follow your lead, because you and bsams have no idea what you're talking about. Because you blame celebrities for everything, and hate them simply because other people like to talk about them. And that's absurd. YOU are absurd.
Nobody responded to Hitler as "that's the way it is." Hitler was a maniac who killed millions of innocent people because he needed a scapegoat to rule a country. I think you can at the very least admit that what I'm talking about is much, much, much different..
Read your History books again....at first Hitler came into power because at first everyone was ignoring what he was doing because it was "only the jews".
quote:Originally posted by Animalman:
Where did I say that? Where did I say anything even remotely like that?
"That's the way it is", so don't take out your problems on people who have nothing to do with it..
People who have nothing to do with it? Youre the one whos defending Jordan. The Jordan Zombies are allowing his news stories to take over the REAL news.
quote:Originally posted by Animalman:No, Franta.
I hope people don't follow your lead, because you and bsams have no idea what you're talking about. Because you blame celebrities for everything, and hate them simply because other people like to talk about them. And that's absurd. YOU are absurd.
So calling celebs out on their self importance is absurd? Jordan should be held in esteem of that as a King? And screw real Humanitarians like Mother Teresa and of late Jimmy Carter. People who actually went out and make attempts to better the world and devote a good part of their life to it. Instead of folks he can throw a ball DAMN GOOD. Or who can play the prez on TV?!?!?! Sorry my good man THAT is absurd!
quote:Originally posted by THE Franta: People who have nothing to do with it? Youre the one whos defending Jordan. The Jordan Zombies are allowing his news stories to take over the REAL news.
I don't know any Jordan Zombies by your definition, but I know a helluva lot of people who'd like to know about him and are thus allowing the stories to take over the real news. Casual observers who don't even follow basketball but want to know about Jordan. That goes back to that first point I made about his universality and place in Americana that appeared to offend you. But you're allowed to keep ignoring it if you choose and call the whole world Jordan Zombies for not seeing it your way, if it'll help you and bsams sleep at night.
quote:So calling celebs out on their self importance is absurd? Jordan should be held in esteem of that as a King? And screw real Humanitarians like Mother Teresa and of late Jimmy Carter. People who actually went out and make attempts to better the world and devote a good part of their life to it. Instead of folks he can throw a ball DAMN GOOD. Or who can play the prez on TV?!?!?! Sorry my good man THAT is absurd!
What's absurd is you drawing messages out of A-man's posts that weren't even remotely there.
That is what is so SAD about the situation. The masses see playing sports and acting as more important than saving lives, keeping the peace which are TRUE humanitarian acts and alltruistic. The words are there in Animalman's post, he says as much that celebs should be held in high esteem! I dont like to sleep anyways Kristogar, but when I do I rest easy because I, am not a blindless Zombie. I refer not only to Jordan Zombies but those Media Zombies as well. Of which this thread appears to be rampant with!
Man, you really miss the point, don't you? Animalman never said or implied that celebrities 'should' be held in high esteem, but that they are. You really need to see the difference between when someone posts what is a fact and what is their opinion. Once you begin doing this, you'll probably realize that people don't disagree with you as often as it would initially appear.
You better not be referring to me as a 'media zombie'. A couple years back I started a website devoted to pointing out double standards and faults within the media, and just had to stop after awhile because there was just too much and it wasn't making a difference anyway. Trust me, Franta, I don't need you telling me the media sucks.
I dont need Animalman to tell me celebrities ARE held above almost all others. I know this...however bsams some others and I (and by your admission now) have been the only ones to point this fact out and how ridiculous it is. As yet I have seen Animalman only defend the celebrities. Again, just because something IS doesnt mean ANYONE has to be happy about it.
I have no problem with a celeb being reported about where it concerns his or her field,what I can't stand is where every aspect of that persons life is newsworthy.I don't care that Britney Spears is dating someone or breaking up with someone.I don't care if so & so is vacationing in the Bahamas & was spotted buying a margarita.I couldn't care less how any celebrity chooses to diet. If Michael Jordan is reconsidering un-retiring...again,that's fine.It belongs in the Sports section or headlining the top story on ESPN.....not front page of the Times.
quote:Originally posted by THE Franta: So why are you arguing the point Kristogar?
Didn't I just say that more people are agreeing with you than you seem to realize? I'm not arguing the point.
quote:I dont need Animalman to tell me celebrities ARE held above almost all others. I know this...however bsams some others and I (and by your admission now) have been the only ones to point this fact out and how ridiculous it is. As yet I have seen Animalman only defend the celebrities.
What I got out of what Animalman was saying is that it's not the celebrities fault that the media covers them and presents them as more important or newsworthy than the stories you'd prefer seeing covered. I don't know how that's defending celebrities or saying that they 'should' be held in high esteem. It'd be nice if you went through the trouble of actually READING what everybody's posting, since we've shown you the same respect.
quote:Again, just because something IS doesnt mean ANYONE has to be happy about it.
Nobody said otherwise. And none of us would be able to stand you if you ever were happy about anything.
quote:Originally posted by bsams: We win again!
Franta, you need to do a better job of keeping your bitch in line.
quote:Originally posted by Rob Kamphausen: what i would like to hear is jordan's opinions on our military efforts in iraq.
Don't forget Allen Iverson, Chris Webber, LeBron James, Shaq, Rafer Alston, Li'l Bow Wow and Meadowlark Lemon, we need to hear what they think as well. Hopefully in petition format.
quote:Originally posted by THE Franta: So then Micheal Jackson paved the way for Jordan is what youre saying...proving my point...
I guess I find it pretty sad that news of a cop getting shot during a robbery and a fireman saving a buncha kids from a burning building gets downplayed due to Jordan retiring, which he "coincidentally" announces before the Super Bowl (he last "retirement announcement was during the World Series I believe.). Saddest part is the policeman and fireman remain nameless while the Zombies continue to pay top dollar for toilet paper that has Jordan's BB number on it.
Franta that's media PERIOD. It has nothing to do with Jordan. That's just the way the media presents stories in this country. Journalism in the modern day is so messed up and owned byentertainment, the government....etc, that it is extremely subjective in priority. All the press cares about nowadays is getting as many viewers and readers as possible. Sad but true.
And Michael Jackson did not pave the way for Jordan. Blacks have always been able to suceed in the entertainment business because unfortunately, that was the stereotype pasted onto them from the South. "Dancing Bojingle Man" "Jim Crow". That kind of crap. What Jordan did was unprecedented in that he blew open the Sports business. Guys like Jim Brown, Wilt Chamberlain, never saw half the money they were raking in for their franchises. Fuck, even Ali retired nearly penniless. (He had to fight his last bout while he was in his early stages of Parkinson's. And this was '81. That's how fucked up the sporting world was) Jordan was the first athlete to wisely say "Hey. I'm the one making this money. I'm the one the fans want to see. I should be asking for more. " And when the NBA wouldn't give him more, he said "Fine. If you're not gonna give me what I earned, then I'll get it from the people who want to see me." And that's where the endorsements came in, the sneakers, Saturday Night Live. It all got him the money that the NBA, his agent, and Jerry Krause wouldn't give him. That's admirable in my book. If that's not a headline man, then neither is Ted Turner, or Bill Gates. But we don't argue about these guys. Know why? Cause they're not black athletes. At least I think. That's just my opinion.
quote:Originally posted by Rob Kamphausen: what i would like to hear is jordan's opinions on our military efforts in iraq.
Don't forget Allen Iverson, Chris Webber, LeBron James, Shaq, Rafer Alston, Li'l Bow Wow and Meadowlark Lemon, we need to hear what they think as well. Hopefully in petition format.
quote:Originally posted by Animalman: No, Franta. He signed a two year contract two years ago, at which point he said he'd retire for good when that contract was up. It's old news, there was no "announcement". Players are interviewed by the media, and they answer questions. That question, for some reason, continues to come up, and Michael Jordan simply gives an answer.
If you want to blame someone for that, blame the media(who ask the questions as if it's big news and put it in the headlines as if it's big news), not the fans and definitely not Michael Jordan.
I blame BOTH the media and the Jordan Zombies. If people were more like bsams and myself willing to speak up in outrage that the media puts Jordan at higher importance than civil servants doing their job for a helluva lot less money than Jordan makes. I do blame the same fans who pay upwards of a thousand bucks to see Jordan play in one game but dont want people saving their lives to get salary increases. So yeah I do blame the Jordan Zombies who have no real sense of priorities.
There is nothing anyone will ever say to convince me that Jordan should make more than those risking and saving lives on a daily basis.
I think what you're angry about is a government and cultural matter, and has nothing to do with Jordan.
Jordan is a guyfrom Brooklyn who grew up in a slightly lower middle class home. Like any of us (I'm assuming). If you had an amazing gift that people were paying millions of dollars to see....and companies were paying BILLIONS of dollars to promote, what would you do? Not take the money????
I thik you're hating too much on this guy cause he's rich. He, unlike lots of millionaires in this country, made HIS OWN money. He's done well for himself. Yes it is a real tragedy that our public service workers do not get paid more than they do now, but how is that Jordan's problem? Our country pays their athletes. That's the reality. Is it fair? No. But we're not talking about that. We're talking about whether Jordan is someone who deserves media attention, and for me, someone who made THAT much money with their talent and smarts about the business (even when he didnt HAVE the knowledge of the business to begin with) is definitely someone I would pay attention to.
Franta that's media PERIOD. It has nothing to do with Jordan. That's just the way the media presents stories in this country. Journalism in the modern day is so messed up and owned byentertainment, the government....etc, that it is extremely subjective in priority. All the press cares about nowadays is getting as many viewers and readers as possible. Sad but true.
.
This is what Im saying!!! I think the media is wrong...but when I say that I GET FLAMED FOR IT! And I dont really hate Jordan I just hating seeing his friggin mug all of the place...Gob Bless him he made it big from the Bronx....but I think theyre are alot more important things going on in the world than a guy who can shoot hoops.
quote:Originally posted by Drzsmith: The only real problem I have with Jordan(besides the ones listed above) is that he's very good friends with confirmed racist Charles Barkley. Jordan is such a "Great Man" you'd think he would be doing something for race relations. As a white male who supports the NBA monetarily I'm appalled!
What???????
What kind of NBA supporter are you?
Charles Barkley's MARRIED to a white woman!!! :lol: :lol:
Goddamm, where do you people read this stuff?
Everyone knows that Barkley only married a white woman to piss off the Massah!
It's also a known fact that Jordan was NOT a team player,in fact he even went so far as to disrupt team chemistry by not suppoerting a teammate. One of the best players in the league was dissed in print ...Disgraceful.
quote:Originally posted by Drzsmith: It's also a known fact that Jordan was NOT a team player,in fact he even went so far as to disrupt team chemistry by not suppoerting a teammate. One of the best players in the league was dissed in print ...Disgraceful.
That statement shows me you know NOTHING of Michael Jordan's actual basketball skills.....
In his first run with the Bulls, he was difficult. Partly because he was the only player that was good on the team for a long time.....He started not trusting his teammates. Then along came Phil Jackson who showed him an offense that could work. Then they got Scottie Pippen, then Horace Grant. Then they started winning. The only person who EVER criticized Jordan for bad teammate skills was Horace Grant, and that was only because he demanded more money in his contract and they gave it to Michael instead. MJ's greatest game-winning plays in the playoffs have been when he sets himself up as a decoy and PASSES the ball to his wing guard. Who won the game against Portland? Bill Paxon. Who won the game against Phoenix? Steve Kerr. Why did these guys take the shot? Because Jordan GAVE it to them.
What makes Jordan better than any other player in the NBA is that he ELEVATED his team's skills as a TEAM PLAYER. He took a team that didn't have a good center, (Bill Wennington and Luc Longley???) in a league where the center is the most important player, to the championships SIX times. SIX!!!! For you to say he is not a team player is disgraceful and revealing to me that you have obviously never watched the playoff games he partook in.
quote:Originally posted by britneyspearsatemyshorts: So true, so true!
Not true at all. BSAMS I don't think you know what you're commenting on.
So basically what I'm getting from this whole thing is that none of you guys know anything about the NBA.
PS Franta, I agree with you about the media. And yeah even I am getting tired of seeing Jordan around. But come on, man. After what I've been trying to tell you, can you at least understand why people would want to read about him so much?
quote:Originally posted by Drzsmith: The only real problem I have with Jordan(besides the ones listed above) is that he's very good friends with confirmed racist Charles Barkley. Jordan is such a "Great Man" you'd think he would be doing something for race relations. As a white male who supports the NBA monetarily I'm appalled!
What???????
What kind of NBA supporter are you?
Charles Barkley's MARRIED to a white woman!!! :lol: :lol:
Goddamm, where do you people read this stuff?
Everyone knows that Barkley only married a white woman to piss off the Massah!
quote:Originally posted by britneyspearsatemyshorts: So true, so true!
Not true at all. BSAMS I don't think you know what you're commenting on.
It's very true, which can only make me conclude that you do not know, tho I must say it's not your fault with the media spin on Jordan alot of the public has been mislead.....
quote:Originally posted by Drzsmith: It's also a known fact that Jordan was NOT a team player,in fact he even went so far as to disrupt team chemistry by not suppoerting a teammate. One of the best players in the league was dissed in print ...Disgraceful.
That statement shows me you know NOTHING of Michael Jordan's actual basketball skills.....
In his first run with the Bulls, he was difficult. Partly because he was the only player that was good on the team for a long time.....He started not trusting his teammates. Then along came Phil Jackson who showed him an offense that could work. Then they got Scottie Pippen, then Horace Grant. Then they started winning. The only person who EVER criticized Jordan for bad teammate skills was Horace Grant, and that was only because he demanded more money in his contract and they gave it to Michael instead. MJ's greatest game-winning plays in the playoffs have been when he sets himself up as a decoy and PASSES the ball to his wing guard. Who won the game against Portland? Bill Paxon. Who won the game against Phoenix? Steve Kerr. Why did these guys take the shot? Because Jordan GAVE it to them.
What makes Jordan better than any other player in the NBA is that he ELEVATED his team's skills as a TEAM PLAYER. He took a team that didn't have a good center, (Bill Wennington and Luc Longley???) in a league where the center is the most important player, to the championships SIX times. SIX!!!! For you to say he is not a team player is disgraceful and revealing to me that you have obviously never watched the playoff games he partook in.
I guess you never heard of a guy named Dennis Rodman? Jordan totally turned on this guy and disrupted the team. They bring in poor Rodman to help the team and Jordan(jealous of Rodmans popularity)screws him over.
quote:Originally posted by Drzsmith: The only real problem I have with Jordan(besides the ones listed above) is that he's very good friends with confirmed racist Charles Barkley. Jordan is such a "Great Man" you'd think he would be doing something for race relations. As a white male who supports the NBA monetarily I'm appalled!
What???????
What kind of NBA supporter are you?
Charles Barkley's MARRIED to a white woman!!! :lol: :lol:
Goddamm, where do you people read this stuff?
Everyone knows that Barkley only married a white woman to piss off the Massah!
.........
Is that supposed to be funny? Or offensive.
I hope you're kidding.
I think Ive earned the right to be pissed of at "The Man" for oppressing African Americans for over two hundred years,lets say its kinda like my reparations. But I'm honest enough to point out the truth about Barkley.
quote:Originally posted by Drzsmith: I guess you never heard of a guy named Dennis Rodman? Jordan totally turned on this guy and disrupted the team. They bring in poor Rodman to help the team and Jordan(jealous of Rodmans popularity)screws him over.
quote:Originally posted by britneyspearsatemyshorts:
quote:Originally posted by Kristogar Velo: Franta, you need to do a better job of keeping your bitch in line.
.....looks like I'm really getting to somebody.....
somebody call my momma, I won again!
Getting to me? Please. I've destroyed entire message board communities, it would take a lot more than a WCW mark to get to me.
There is no WCW, and by copying my remarks, and trying to insult me(failing natch) further proof, i bet you have trouble sleeping thinking about how foolish ive made you look.....
quote:Originally posted by Drzsmith: It's also a known fact that Jordan was NOT a team player,in fact he even went so far as to disrupt team chemistry by not suppoerting a teammate. One of the best players in the league was dissed in print ...Disgraceful.
That statement shows me you know NOTHING of Michael Jordan's actual basketball skills.....
In his first run with the Bulls, he was difficult. Partly because he was the only player that was good on the team for a long time.....He started not trusting his teammates. Then along came Phil Jackson who showed him an offense that could work. Then they got Scottie Pippen, then Horace Grant. Then they started winning. The only person who EVER criticized Jordan for bad teammate skills was Horace Grant, and that was only because he demanded more money in his contract and they gave it to Michael instead. MJ's greatest game-winning plays in the playoffs have been when he sets himself up as a decoy and PASSES the ball to his wing guard. Who won the game against Portland? Bill Paxon. Who won the game against Phoenix? Steve Kerr. Why did these guys take the shot? Because Jordan GAVE it to them.
What makes Jordan better than any other player in the NBA is that he ELEVATED his team's skills as a TEAM PLAYER. He took a team that didn't have a good center, (Bill Wennington and Luc Longley???) in a league where the center is the most important player, to the championships SIX times. SIX!!!! For you to say he is not a team player is disgraceful and revealing to me that you have obviously never watched the playoff games he partook in.
I guess you never heard of a guy named Dennis Rodman? Jordan totally turned on this guy and disrupted the team. They bring in poor Rodman to help the team and Jordan(jealous of Rodmans popularity)screws him over.
Are. You Kidding Me?
Dennis Rodman is the worst team player ever. Ask David Robinson. Ask the Dallas Mavericks...... Ask any smart person on the planet. How thefuck did Jordan turn on a guy who said he would only play for the Bulls if he was allowed to skop practice in favor of half an hour on a fucking exercise bike????
Jealous of his popularity???? Man he took thatbum to three championships. He could have had him bumped off that team whenever he wanted to but he didn't? How exactly did Jordan screw Rodman over in giving him three titles?????
Who is this gibroni? Everything you have stated is wrong. I think I'm gonna frame all your posts so children growing up will know what is UNTRUE about MJ.
quote:Originally posted by Drzsmith: The only real problem I have with Jordan(besides the ones listed above) is that he's very good friends with confirmed racist Charles Barkley. Jordan is such a "Great Man" you'd think he would be doing something for race relations. As a white male who supports the NBA monetarily I'm appalled!
What???????
What kind of NBA supporter are you?
Charles Barkley's MARRIED to a white woman!!! :lol: :lol:
Goddamm, where do you people read this stuff?
Everyone knows that Barkley only married a white woman to piss off the Massah!
.........
Is that supposed to be funny? Or offensive.
I hope you're kidding.
I think Ive earned the right to be pissed of at "The Man" for oppressing African Americans for over two hundred years,lets say its kinda like my reparations. But I'm honest enough to point out the truth about Barkley.
quote:Originally posted by britneyspearsatemyshorts:
quote:Originally posted by La Machine:
quote:Originally posted by britneyspearsatemyshorts: So true, so true!
Not true at all. BSAMS I don't think you know what you're commenting on.
It's very true, which can only make me conclude that you do not know, tho I must say it's not your fault with the media spin on Jordan alot of the public has been mislead.....
I don't watch tv....except for sports. And I'll have you know the sporting world is sick of Jordan and is not at all on his side....
So I say to you too.....Prove it to me. Don't give me witty one-liners cause those mean dick to me. Prove to me that Barkley, married to a white woman, teammate of Dan Majerle, Danny Ainge, and Scott Skiles, is a racist......and Dennis Rodman, ejected more times than any other player, bumped off three teams, accused of showing up "coked" for practice, is a better team player than Michael Jordan. (I can't believe I got through writing those statements because they are the funniest things i ever heard in my life.)
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