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Quote:
wannabuyamonkey said:
That is to say law is interpreted as law, metaphore as metaphore suggestion as suggestion and history as history, realiising that the scriptures were written in history to specific groups. When Paul writes to the Corinthians to say that women should cover thier heads, we need to realise that that book wasn't addressed directly to us in the modern church and need to ask "why would this be important to the Corinthians and how (or if) it applies to us today"
What makes you say that this was written to the Corinthians as a group specifically? Why is it not applicable to the modern day Church?
Again, just wondering.
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Quote:
Wednesday said:
Quote:
wannabuyamonkey said:
That is to say law is interpreted as law, metaphore as metaphore suggestion as suggestion and history as history, realiising that the scriptures were written in history to specific groups. When Paul writes to the Corinthians to say that women should cover thier heads, we need to realise that that book wasn't addressed directly to us in the modern church and need to ask "why would this be important to the Corinthians and how (or if) it applies to us today"
What makes you say that this was written to the Corinthians as a group specifically? Why is it not applicable to the modern day Church?
Again, just wondering.
I say it was written to the Corithians specifically because it was addressed to them and refers to them by name, but what I was trying to say is that it IS appicable to us in the modern church in as much as we recognise it's intent. When Pal addresses Timmothy to fetch his scroll and tunic we know not to go on a pilgrimage to find those items, but when he lays out the qualification for Curch elders those instructions are timeless.
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Pariah said:
When you die, you'll know the absolute truth...
Too right!
P, I seem to remember that you were a Catholic. Do you understand what the deal is with wheat? I hadn't heard that untill this article.
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Batwoman said:
Manochevits(sp)
Manishewistz
(pronounced Manishevitz)
<sub>Will Eisner's last work - The Plot: The Secret Story of the Protocols of the Elders of ZionRDCW Profile"Well, as it happens, I wrote the damned SOP," Illescue half snarled, "and as of now, you can bar those jackals from any part of this facility until Hell's a hockey rink! Is that perfectly clear?!" - Dr. Franz Illescue - Honor Harrington: At All Costs"I don't know what I'm do, or how I do, I just do." - Alexander Ovechkin</sub>
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Ultimate Jaburg53 said:
Don't forget the recipie for communion wafers...
I don't know about the recipie for communion wafers, but I do a bit about Matzah, which is what Jesus ate that night.
Matzah, as you know, is the unleavened bread we eat on Passover. It is usually made of wheat, but...it can be made out of any of the five grains (wheat, rye, oat, spelt, barley). My neighbors prefer spelt matzah. The number one rule when making matzah is that it must be done within 18 minutes, with the counter starting from the time water is added to the mix.
<sub>Will Eisner's last work - The Plot: The Secret Story of the Protocols of the Elders of ZionRDCW Profile"Well, as it happens, I wrote the damned SOP," Illescue half snarled, "and as of now, you can bar those jackals from any part of this facility until Hell's a hockey rink! Is that perfectly clear?!" - Dr. Franz Illescue - Honor Harrington: At All Costs"I don't know what I'm do, or how I do, I just do." - Alexander Ovechkin</sub>
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Quote:
Pariah said:
When you die, you'll know the absolute truth...
You sound so much like a cultist when you talk like that it's not even funny...
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Quote:
Animalman said:
Quote:
Pariah said:
When you die, you'll know the absolute truth...
You sound so much like a cultist when you talk like that it's not even funny...
I'm offended on behalf of Pariah, but I'll refrain from calling you an ass-hole. I'm also offended on my own behalf since I agree with his statement 100%.
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It's a Pariah and me thing, wbm. You know, Tony Randall-Greenhorn. Inside joke.
But c'mon, you wouldn't be a little creeped out if someone came up to you and said "you'll know the absolute truth when you die?"
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P.S-I like how you managed to call me an asshole without actually calling me an asshole. Well done. A page right out of my book.
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Animalman said:
P.S-I like how you managed to call me an asshole without actually calling me an asshole. Well done. A page right out of my book.
 I'm glad you can appreciate it! I wouldn't be creeped out, because all he's doing is asserting a belief in an after life and an afterlife that brings us to a final understanding of absolute truth. The belief in an afterlife also tekes some of the "creepy" out of thoughts of death.
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Ultimate Jaburg53 said:
Don't forget the recipie for communion wafers...
The recipe for communion wafers comes from the last supper. Jesus ate unleavened wheat, so the Church requires wafers to be made at least partially of unleavened wheat.
Any rational thinking person would argue that an exception should be made (and I do agree), but to do so will require breaking thousands of years of tradition. Not only that, but we're talking about one of the Seven Sacraments here, pretty much the cornerstones that separate the Catholic Church from all others. This can't be handled at the parish level. This has to go up to the Vatican, and will change doctrine for the Church worldwide, if the change is made (which I'm sure it will be). Just like a case going up to the Supreme Court, this will take time. This girl will have her Communion.
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But by that time the girl could be up on the pole and not care about communion anymore.
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wannabuyamonkey said:
Quote:
I mean THAT REALLY AINT THE FUCKING FLESH OF CHRIST YOU MANIACS!
That's the problem, the Catholic church teaches that it IS, because of thier doctrine of transubstantiation.
Soylent communion?
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Quote:
Snapman said:
But by that time the girl could be up on the pole and not care about communion anymore.
We can only hope her parents give a fuck.
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Quote:
wannabuyamonkey said:
I say it was written to the Corithians specifically because it was addressed to them and refers to them by name, but what I was trying to say is that it IS appicable to us in the modern church in as much as we recognise it's intent. When Pal addresses Timmothy to fetch his scroll and tunic we know not to go on a pilgrimage to find those items, but when he lays out the qualification for Curch elders those instructions are timeless.
Ok, that's cool. So the way I understand it, you try not to take anything too literally and feel that some things must be taken in context. 1 Corinthians says a lot, though. Do you apply that same rule to everything in it?
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wannabuyamonkey said:
I wouldn't be creeped out, because all he's doing is asserting a belief in an after life and an afterlife that brings us to a final understanding of absolute truth.
To me, it's not much different than some guy coming up to me and saying "the night time is the right time".
Or like one of those self-help groups that come up with all these code words and metaphors for feelings and emotions. Sort of like in Six Feet Under, when Ruth joins "The Plan" and keeps talking about how her "foundation needs repairs" because she has to fix her "house" and that she has to have a "new blupeprint".
I've sat through plenty of communion ceremonies, so, in a sense, I'm used to such things, but, as an outsider, it doesn't get any less weird to see people talk about eating the body of a person who's supposedly been dead for 2000 years. Or, on Ash Wednesday, to see everyone else but you walking around with a cross drawn on their foreheads.
Everyone has their own quirky little idiosyncrasies that make up their life. Why not laugh at them from time to time(I know I do for mine)? They're all the same! Thinking they aren't is just pretentious, in my opinion. If that offends you, I'm sorry, but that's how I feel. It's by no means a personal thing.
Quote:
The belief in an afterlife also tekes some of the "creepy" out of thoughts of death.
"Creepy", I dunno...."scary", sure. Death is a frightening thing.
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Wednesday said:
Quote:
Batwoman said:
To stray a bit here, confession is something that's to be done between yourelf and God, not in a confessional.
Where in the Bible does it say confession is something "to be done between yourself and God, not in a confessional"?
Not saying that you're wrong. Just wondering how you came to that conclusion.
Where in the Bible does it say you have to confess to some priest? Where in the Bible does it say you're supposed to follow the word of the Pope and the Catholic church?
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Quote:
Wednesday said:
Quote:
Batwoman said:
To stray a bit here, confession is something that's to be done between yourelf and God, not in a confessional.
Where in the Bible does it say confession is something "to be done between yourself and God, not in a confessional"?
Not saying that you're wrong. Just wondering how you came to that conclusion.
Where in the Bible does it say you have to confess to some priest? Where in the Bible does it say you're supposed to follow the word of the Pope and the Catholic church?
FREE SCOTT PETERSON!
"Basically, you've just responded with argumentative opinion to everything I've said. And you respond with speculations, speculating that I'M speculating. "- Wonder Boy
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Quote:
Wednesday said:
Quote:
Batwoman said:
To stray a bit here, confession is something that's to be done between yourelf and God, not in a confessional.
Where in the Bible does it say confession is something "to be done between yourself and God, not in a confessional"?
Not saying that you're wrong. Just wondering how you came to that conclusion.
Where in the Bible does it say you have to confess to some priest? Where in the Bible does it say you're supposed to follow the word of the Pope and the Catholic church?
FREE SCOTT PETERSON!
"Basically, you've just responded with argumentative opinion to everything I've said. And you respond with speculations, speculating that I'M speculating. "- Wonder Boy
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Quote:
Wednesday said:
Quote:
Batwoman said:
To stray a bit here, confession is something that's to be done between yourelf and God, not in a confessional.
Where in the Bible does it say confession is something "to be done between yourself and God, not in a confessional"?
Not saying that you're wrong. Just wondering how you came to that conclusion.
Where in the Bible does it say you have to confess to some priest? Where in the Bible does it say you're supposed to follow the word of the Pope and the Catholic church?
FREE SCOTT PETERSON!
"Basically, you've just responded with argumentative opinion to everything I've said. And you respond with speculations, speculating that I'M speculating. "- Wonder Boy
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Quote:
Wednesday said:
Quote:
wannabuyamonkey said:
I say it was written to the Corithians specifically because it was addressed to them and refers to them by name, but what I was trying to say is that it IS appicable to us in the modern church in as much as we recognise it's intent. When Pal addresses Timmothy to fetch his scroll and tunic we know not to go on a pilgrimage to find those items, but when he lays out the qualification for Curch elders those instructions are timeless.
Ok, that's cool. So the way I understand it, you try not to take anything too literally and feel that some things must be taken in context. 1 Corinthians says a lot, though. Do you apply that same rule to everything in it?
I aply the same rule, but that same rule effects different texts in different ways.
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JQ, did you forget how to post whist on vacation?
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W, I forgot to ask, what faith are you.... if any.
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Quote:
wannabuyamonkey said:
JQ, did you forget how to post whist on vacation?
That was Rob's boards! I wasn't "trolling" that time. 
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Quote:
JQ said:
Quote:
Wednesday said:
Quote:
Batwoman said:
To stray a bit here, confession is something that's to be done between yourelf and God, not in a confessional.
Where in the Bible does it say confession is something "to be done between yourself and God, not in a confessional"?
Not saying that you're wrong. Just wondering how you came to that conclusion.
Where in the Bible does it say you have to confess to some priest? Where in the Bible does it say you're supposed to follow the word of the Pope and the Catholic church?
It doesn't, nor does the Catholic Church say that you have to. A Catholic who believes in the teachings in the Catholic Church, however, is inclined to go to Confession.
"He said therefore to them again: Peace be to you. As the Father hath sent me, I also send you. When he had said this, he breathed on them; and he said to them: Receive ye the Holy Ghost. Whose sins you shall forgive, they are forgiven them: and whose sins you shall retain, they are retained."
- Jesus speaking to the Disciples, in the Book of John.
It's not really the Church's belief that priestS can forgive. It is the belief that God works through the Church to forgive, and through its priests. Also, confession does not replace prayer. The two are entirely different things.
There are more examples in the Bible that help to further explain, but do ya really want me to post them?
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Quote:
wannabuyamonkey said:
W, I forgot to ask, what faith are you.... if any.
I have no religion, but I consider myself spiritual... or maybe I'm just scared of commitment.
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P, I seem to remember that you were a Catholic. Do you understand what the deal is with wheat? I hadn't heard that untill this article.
Yeah, wheat is required to be present within in the wafer to make sure it properly symbolizes Christ's transition of bread into his body.
BUT! I, and probably a large majority of Catholics, would not think God to be so inhospitable as to not allow a substitute.
But aside from that, a more obvious salution would be just to drink the blood of Christ. As long as she does that, the first communion's valid.
I think this hasn't actually come up before because other allergics toughed it out and made whatever effects they put up with into their sacrifice to Christ. I know of a case where one individual in a British prison was fatally allergic to wheat, but for over twenty years he took the host in a very small portion and just lived with his allergic reactions.
I'm not saying that the kid should be expected to put up with the pain. Just saying what could be.
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Quote:
Animalman said:
Quote:
Pariah said:
When you die, you'll know the absolute truth...
You sound so much like a cultist when you talk like that it's not even funny...
It may sound a bit spooky. But all I'm saying is, absolute truth does exist.
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btw, I'm not blowing this thread off, just was in and out of the house all day yesterday, out more than in, and was out for about half the day today. So once I get the time to find the missing Bible I use to look things like this up with, I'll post back.
But if anyone knows it off hand feel free to post.
It's a rented tux ok? I'm not going comando in another man's fatigues.
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Batwoman said:
btw, I'm not blowing this thread off, just was in and out of the house all day yesterday, out more than in, and was out for about half the day today. So once I get the time to find the missing Bible I use to look things like this up with, I'll post back.
But if anyone knows it off hand feel free to post.
You spent a day and a half away from Rob's board? 
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heh yeah, it seemed like most of the time was spent at church, which in reality is was more like, I ran back and forth to church for a meeting, then had to put the set up (for the stage) then had a bbq and went out with friends I hadn't seen in a while last night. Then this morning was church, of which I was there for 2 services, then went to lunch with another friend I hadn't seen in ages, then hit the mall after that. Finally got back home and watched some Olympics, saw the US women beat forgot who, in beach volleyball. WOO! Go USA. Course our men's (indoor) team could use some help. They were in 4th when I watched yesterday, during their tournament against Australia.
It's a rented tux ok? I'm not going comando in another man's fatigues.
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Quote:
Batwoman said:
heh yeah, it seemed like most of the time was spent at church, which in reality is was more like, I ran back and forth to church for a meeting, then had to put the set up (for the stage) then had a bbq and went out with friends I hadn't seen in a while last night. Then this morning was church, of which I was there for 2 services, then went to lunch with another friend I hadn't seen in ages, then hit the mall after that. Finally got back home and watched some Olympics, saw the US women beat forgot who, in beach volleyball. WOO! Go USA.
Course our men's (indoor) team could use some help. They were in 4th when I watched yesterday, during their tournament against Australia.
what a lame excuse for abandoning Rob's board
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It's a rented tux ok? I'm not going comando in another man's fatigues.
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Quote:
Wednesday said:
Quote:
JQ said:
Quote:
Wednesday said:
Quote:
Batwoman said:
To stray a bit here, confession is something that's to be done between yourelf and God, not in a confessional.
Where in the Bible does it say confession is something "to be done between yourself and God, not in a confessional"?
Not saying that you're wrong. Just wondering how you came to that conclusion.
Where in the Bible does it say you have to confess to some priest? Where in the Bible does it say you're supposed to follow the word of the Pope and the Catholic church?
It doesn't, nor does the Catholic Church say that you have to. A Catholic who believes in the teachings in the Catholic Church, however, is inclined to go to Confession.
"He said therefore to them again: Peace be to you. As the Father hath sent me, I also send you. When he had said this, he breathed on them; and he said to them: Receive ye the Holy Ghost. Whose sins you shall forgive, they are forgiven them: and whose sins you shall retain, they are retained."
- Jesus speaking to the Disciples, in the Book of John.
It's not really the Church's belief that priestS can forgive. It is the belief that God works through the Church to forgive, and through its priests. Also, confession does not replace prayer. The two are entirely different things.
There are more examples in the Bible that help to further explain, but do ya really want me to post them?
I knew they were just pulling all this sacred Vatican shit out of their asses.
FREE SCOTT PETERSON!
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Batwoman said:
slap
ow! 
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Quote:
JQ said:
I knew they were just pulling all this sacred Vatican shit out of their asses.
You know, I have, like, no excuse for that one. It's not that was so busy looking at Bible verse that I forgot to answer the second question, it's that I didn't even read the post thoroughly enough. It's sad, really. I'm just really bad at that.
The Pope is the successor of St. Peter, who was appointed head of the Church by Jesus Christ. Actually, I know exactly where he did that number without even looking, but that's only because that's the same text the fallen angels used to try to destroy the world... in Dogma:
Quote:
Matthew 16:17-19
Blessed art thou, Simon Bar-Jona: because flesh and blood hath not revealed it to thee, but my Father who is in heaven. And I say to thee: That thou art Peter; and upon this rock I will build my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. And I will give to thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven. And whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth it shall be bound also in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth, it shall be loosed also in heaven.
Sacred loopholes rock.
Now this part isn't in the Bible, so any Catholics here are more than welcome to correct me. It's believed that St. Peter was the bishop of Rome, thus the placement of the Vatican. The Vatican itself isn't considered any more sacred than any other Church, but it is the location of the head of the Church, and every other Church must answer to the doctrine made there, thus the whole communion wafer dilemna.
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The conscience of the rkmbs! 15000+ posts
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 30,833 Likes: 7 |
Quote:
Now this part isn't in the Bible, so any Catholics here are more than welcome to correct me. It's believed that St. Peter was the bishop of Rome, thus the placement of the Vatican. The Vatican itself isn't considered any more sacred than any other Church, but it is the location of the head of the Church, and every other Church must answer to the doctrine made there, thus the whole communion wafer dilemna.
No. Peter didn't ascend through the ranks. To my knowledge he was just made pope. And the Vatican itself isn't the authority, it's the position of Pope that hones all the power there.
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 22,618
Your death will make me king! 15000+ posts
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Your death will make me king! 15000+ posts
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 22,618 |
Ummm... I never said Peter ascended through the ranks. Also, I believe the point you made about the Vatican being no more than the location of the Pope, was the same point I made.
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Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 30,833 Likes: 7
The conscience of the rkmbs! 15000+ posts
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The conscience of the rkmbs! 15000+ posts
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 30,833 Likes: 7 |
I'm sorry, I misinterpreted your post (I seem to be doing that more often lately) with the Vatican thing. But what I meant by ascend through the ranks was that he was never Bishop before Pope. Or am I reading it wrong again somehow (serious question)?
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 22,618
Your death will make me king! 15000+ posts
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Your death will make me king! 15000+ posts
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 22,618 |
Oh, ok, that's my error. I wasn't very clear about that.
'Bishop of Rome' (I should have capitalized 'Bishop' the first time) is the ecclesiastic (sp?) title held by the Pope, and was the actual title held by Peter. The term 'Pope' didn't come until later and was backwardly applied to Peter and his immediate successors.
Again, I'm going by what I know from history. I'll look it up once I get home, but if you know different, Pariah, let me know.
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