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Your answer is non-responsive. I was specifically asking whether or not this particular course of action was at odds with feminist icon status.
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I don't agree. Her husband is an asset to the campaign & to ignore the obvious seems rather silly to me.
Closer to what I think follows your narrow parameters though...
Feminism in basic terms is about equality. Most candidates running for President have spouses that campaign with them. Hillary did it for Bill, now it's Bill turn to do it for her.
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Quote:
Matter-eater Man said:
Feminism in basic terms is about equality.
Once upon a time maybe. 
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Quote:
Matter-eater Man said:
Feminism in basic terms is about equality. Most candidates running for President have spouses that campaign with them. Hillary did it for Bill, now it's Bill turn to do it for her.
Perhaps. However, you answered a different question than the one I asked. You mischaracterized my earlier post.
I specifically noted that this was only the latest example of her seemingly riding her husband's coattails to get her "job."
She wasn't elected NYS Senator because of experience (or even residency obviously). It was wholly because of her marriage to Bill and resulting fame.
In Arkansas, its been reported that most of her positions were as a result of people cozying up to her in order to cozy up to Bill (as either A.G. or Governor).
So, for twenty years or more, every job she's ever gotten--and now the job she wants--involves using her husband's fame and influence to get it.
Again, how in accord is that, not with nepotism, not with ambition, but with the femnisim some see her as a role model for?
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plus.......
she's a Cunt.
plus......
she barely won in 2000 against a virtual unknown (Rick Lazio).....she would have been demolished by Rudy if he didn't get cancer.
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Which is way Hillary and MEM are scared shitless of Rudy.
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This coming from people who voted for Bush's son is too rich. Where would he have been without family name, connections & fortune?
Hillary experience as a first lady & her time in the Senate are pretty good things to have in a Presidential race. She's proven herself.
BTW, she soundly trounced Laz by 12 points in a place she had barely established residency in. Looking at the general response of conservatives on this thread shows who's afraid of who. She doesn't have to duck on abortion, gay rights & gun control like Rudy.
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you are thinking of her 2006 win.....in 2000 she barely won dude. She won by 1 or 2 percentage points. I'm pretty sure it was 1.....I'll look it up.
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Quote:
PJP said:
you are thinking of her 2006 win.....in 2000 she barely won dude. She won by 1 or 2 percentage points. I'm pretty sure it was 1.....I'll look it up.
Nope. In her race against Lazlio in 2000 she won with over 55 percent of the vote.
wikipedia
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For the record....you are correct.....I must have been thinking of Corzine Vs. Franks....but I looked it up myself here www.fec.gov/pubrec/fe2000/2000senate.htm .....No one should trust what they read on Wikipedia.
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Quote:
the G-man said:
Oh, and don't waste our time saying "yeah, but George Bush's daddy, blah, blah..." I'm not asking about nepotism. I'm asking about feminism and whether Hillary is a good example of it.
Quote:
Matter-eater Man said:
This coming from people who voted for Bush's son is too rich. Where would he have been without family name, connections & fortune?
Heh. I knew you couldn't answer the question and would eventually have to resort to bashing Bush.
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Bush having everything given to him isn't that much different then what your accusing Hillary of. I followed up on the feminism bit pointing out that it was basically about equalty. Bill used her in campaigning so now it's his turn to be the spouse that tags along on campaigns. Just like rest of the presidential candidates running in 08.
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Still nonresponsive.
As noted above, I asked a specific question about whether the particular choice made by a particular candidate, in this case Hillary, undercut her image in a particular area (an area which is, also, obviously irrelevant to any male 2008 candidate or, in the case of Bush, noncandidate).
Furthermore, as noted above, Hillary is not casting Bill in the role of a supportive spouse. She is casting him as the "star," and hoping some of his cred rubs off on her.
Love Hillary or hate Hillary, these are legitimate, interesting, issues related to the unprecedented nature of her campaign as both (arguably) the first major female presidential candidate and (indistputably) the first former first lady to run for president.
The fact that you can't answer them and try to distract us with your standard bash on Bush tends to project an implicit recognition on your part that this is a weakness for her.
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I see no evidence that she undercuts her image by having her husband campaign with her. Besides your hatred for Hillary do you have anything consisting of evidence to support the contrary?
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You mean, besides the fact that feminists don't usually allow themselves to look like they got to where they are by riding their husband's coattails?
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New york Post: A Pakistani immigrant is wanted by federal authorities on charges he channeled $30,000 in illegal contributions to Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton's presidential war chest.
The FBI is hunting Los Angeles businessman Abdul Rehman Jinnah, who vanished soon after his grand-jury indictment for violating federal election laws last May.
Jinnah, 56, a cellphone and frozen-yogurt businessman, allegedly collected campaign donations from family members, friends and employees at fake fund-raising events - then reimbursed them. The scam allowed him to evade the $2,000 limit on individual contributions to candidates, the feds say.
He is believed to have fled to his native Pakistan after his indictment on charges of conspiracy and making illegal campaign contributions. Hillary, of course, denies any knowledge of the illegal fundraising. However, the Los Angeles Times has a picture of her attending one of Jinnah's fundraisers.  In addition, the Times notes, Jinnah's fundraising for Hillary goes back to her initial 2000 Senate race, and may have swayed foreign policy decisions made by President Clinton and other democrats: In early 2000, a controversy erupted when a group of Pakistani Americans hosted a $50,000 fundraiser for Hillary Clinton as President Clinton was deciding whether to visit Pakistan on a Southeast Asia trip. The Clintons denied the contributions swayed the decision to make the stop.
Later that year, Jinnah hosted a luncheon fundraiser for then-First Lady Clinton at his house. Jinnah hosted a second fundraiser for Clinton in October 2004.
That year, he also helped form the Pakistani American Leadership Center, which describes itself as a coalition of Pakistani Americans seeking to further U.S.-Pakistan ties. It has helped persuade more than 70 House members to join the Congressional Pakistan Caucus.
The group was particularly jubilant when Rep. Howard L. Berman (D-Valley Village), who had previously sponsored a bill targeting Pakistan for sanctions related to its nuclear program, agreed to become a member.
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Bill Clinton has given quite a bit of credit to Hillary in helping him make it to the White House. And Hillary deserves it, it's not like she just did photo ops & played the normally accepted role like previous candidate spouses have done.
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So, in your mind, Hillary's association with illegal fundraisers is something to be admired, simply because it helped elect her democrat spouse?
Maybe you change your "fair play" slogan to something like "the ends justify the means" Or is that too many characters?
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Exactly how does a candidate know that someone's fundraiser is illegal? Hillary says she didn't know & she gave back the money. Now if there was some evidence of her trying to hide her association (for example Bush with his Abramoff ties) then you have a bit of meat to your accusations.
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You will note that I acknowleged in my initial post that Mrs. Clinton denied knowledge of wrongdoing.
However, that's still a far cry from, as you seem to imply, claiming something "admirable" in her (or Bill's) assocation with the fugitive, especially since there is some indication that Jinnah parlayed his fundraising efforts into a successful attempt to influence U.S. policy.
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Will the Real Hillary Please Speak Up? New York Sen. Hillary Clinton has traveled a long road on her way to running for the Democratic nomination for president.
As a student, she traveled from Illinois to toney Wellesley, Mass.; as a politician's wife, she made the journey to the governor's mansion in Little Rock, Ark., and then on to Washington, D.C. as first lady; and, finally, as a senator, she moved into well-heeled Chappaqua, N.Y..
Wherever she's been, Hillary's made sure her voice is heard.
The question is, which voice is Hillary's? Has she traveled so far that she's suffering from dialect confusion? You decide:
Click here to view and listen to a clip of Hillary talking energy in Johnston, Iowa
Now, click here to listen to Hillary addressing an audience Sunday at the First Baptist Church in Selma, Ala.
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Quote:
Another day, another wingnut tale proven to be highly dishonest. Today's exhibit of winger mendacity -- pushed today by Drudge, Fox News, and some of the big winger blogs -- concerns the southern accent Hillary put on in Alabama yesterday.
The Drudge headline links to this audio of Hillary speaking yesterday. If you listen to it, the main thing you'll hear is Hillary speaking in a southern drawl, saying phrases that sound like her own words:
"I don't feel no ways tired..I come too far from where I started from...Nobody told me that the road would be easy...I don't believe he brought me this far to leave me."
As you can see, this clip makes it sound like Hillary is adopting not just this drawl, but this language and this down-home grammar, as her own. The righties have been waving this around to prove what a phony Hillary is. This audio was promoted by, among others, PowerlineBlog, Free Republic, Instapundit, and Fox News, which linked to it under the headline, "Will the real Hillary please speak up?"
But as always, a simple fact-check shows this latest wingnut preoccupation to be highly dishonest. The audio clip Drudge linked to cherry-picked that quote and removed it completely from its context, which would have shown that Hillary wasn't adopting this accent or grammar or language as her own at all.
Rather, it turns out that Hillary was actually quoting the hymn lyrics of someone else -- while clearly and very openly imitating (not very well, it turns out) the cadences she thought the lyrics would traditionally have been delivered in. There was nothing phony about it at all. Watch for yourself:
...
RAW
Granted this is lighter fare then when G-man & buddies had Obamma attending a terrorist school. 
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Actually, I sort of agree with you, Chris. In fact, I almost mentioned in my original post that I just thought it was kind of funny.
I suppose there is some possible ammo here that it potentially demonstrates that Hillary is the fake that some accuse her of being. However, I'm not sure that such ammo is confined to the GOP. Given some of the spin on Mrs Clinton coming out of both the Obama and Edwards camps, I could see either of them trying to make a big deal out of this to demonstrate that either of them is a more "authentic" democratic candidate.
In fact, you will recall that the drawl comes for her appearance in Alabama at a civil rights event at which both her and Obama were in heated competition to outshine the other.
Given that reality, isn't it just as likely that Barack Hussein Obama would be the one trying to use this clip against her?
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Hillary did live in the Arkansas for almost 20 yrs G-man. I've heard people slip into a southern accent who have lived down south for even less time.
Guess I don't truly know if the GOP was behind this but the conservative media certainly used it. I don't expect anything from blogs like Drudge or Free Republic but FOX really needs to start raising the bar.
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Quote:
Matter-eater Man said:
Hillary isn't guilty of Bill's [adultery]. Rudy is guilty of being one of those parents who leave his kids behind for the newest wife.
But if wanted to follow your chain of logic, and I don't, I could note the following:
Its been established that Bill cheated on Hillary. Multiple times. Including with a young woman not much older than Chelsea. Hillary has accepted this and stayed with Bill despite his muliple acts of adultury.
It is more or less indisputable that parents' behaviors affect their children. Parents are, of course, role models. For example, there are studies that indicate adultery scars children. There is also the concept that Hillary, by staying with Bill, has taught her daughter that it is okay to stay with a man who devalues you to the point of cheating on you.
Therefore, using your chain of logic, Bill and Hillary, as well as Rudy, have all been bad parents.
Yet of the three, you seem to feel that bad parenting disqualifies the candidate in only one case. That case, of course, being the Republicans.
As noted above, I don't feel that Bill and Hillary's bad parenting disqualified them to hold office. I feel the same way about Rudy.
I'm consistent. You, Chris, are not.
You excuse bad parenting and adultery for democrats and embrace family values for republicans.
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AP: Democratic presidential hopeful Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton of New York told the nation's leading gay rights group in an unpublicized speech that she wants a partnership with gays if elected president.
Clinton also said she opposes the "don't ask, don't tell" policy regarding gays in the military that was instituted during her husband's presidency.
"I am proud to stand by your side," Clinton said in a keynote speech Friday to the Human Rights Campaign. Neither Clinton's campaign nor her Senate office made any announcement that she would be making the Friday address.
Asked twice at a Monday campaign stop in Iowa why she did not publicize her speech to the group, Clinton said: "You'll have to ask my campaign." She may "oppose" don't-ask-don't-tell, but is sure sounds as though she knows how to practice it.
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Hillary's Experience --Ask Bill (He Doesn't Remember It)Is Hillary Clinton the Walter Mitty of presidential candidates when she takes credit for the successes of her husband's presidency?
Lately, she's been repeatedly linking herself to Bill's job creation, budget balancing, economic programs and domestic policies initiatives. There's a lot of “Bill and I” and "we” in her speeches. It's all part of the “bring back the Clinton years” theme that she rolls out to Democratic Party audiences.
At the core of her highly disciplined campaign message is her claim that her “experience” in the White House and the Senate makes her uniquely qualified to move right into the Oval Office. According to Hillary, her two term co-presidency with Bill specially prepared her for the next Clinton administration and gives her exceptional credentials that no other candidate can match.
So, what exactly was it that Hillary did in the Clinton White House that gave her all of that experience?
Well, obviously there was the health care fiasco, Hillary's secretive, expensive and utterly failed attempt to socialize the health care industry. [But] Surely, she can't be referring to that.
In her book, Hillary discusses her advocacy in the White House on social security, welfare reform, the bankruptcy reform bill, violence in the media, budget cuts and improvement in the Family and Medical Leave Act.
But, in his memoirs, Bill rarely mentions Hillary's role in any of his administration's policies, except for health care. One would have expected that he would have described some of the details of her unparalleled 'experience.'
So, is Hillary a Walter Mitty character who imagined herself as the effective and hard-working co-president of the United States, while she was actually marginalized and uninvolved in any important policy making?
Or was she really a strong co-president who wasn't given the proper credit by her husband in his book, and was too modest to write about it in her own book?
We'll leave the answer up to you.
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I remember all to well all the bitching from conservatives about Hillary being an unelected co-President. That was then I guess & now it's time to play it the other way.
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the Associated Press reports: Presidential candidate Hillary Rodham Clinton told Democrats Tuesday the 'vast, right-wing conspiracy' is back, using a phrase she once coined to describe partisan criticism.
On Tuesday, she asserted the conspiracy is alive and well, and cited as proof the Election Day 2002 case of phone jamming in New Hampshire, a case in which two Republican operatives pleaded guilty to criminal charges, and a third was convicted. A conspiracy of three is not exactly vast.  But it's worth remembering the context in which Mrs. Clinton first introduced the notion of the "vast right-wing conspiracy, as stated on the Today show, back in 1998: We [the Clintons] know everything there is to know about each other, and we understand and accept and love each other. And I just think that a lot of this is deliberately designed to sensationalize charges against my husband, because everything else they've tried has failed. And I also believe that it's part of an effort, very frankly, to undo the results of two elections. . . .
But I do believe that this is a battle. I mean, look at the very people who are involved in this. They have popped up in other settings.
This is--the great story here for anybody willing to find it and write about it and explain it--is this vast right-wing conspiracy that has been conspiring against my husband since the day he announced for president. A few journalists have kind of caught on to it and explained it. But it has not yet been fully revealed to the American public. And actually, you know, in a bizarre sort of way, this may do it.
Now, I have to say, I don't know what it is about my husband that generates such hostility, but I have seen it for 25 years.
Well, I think that--if all that were proven true, I think that would be a very serious offense. That is not going to be proven true. Of course, "all that" was proven true. It's bad enough that Mrs. Clinton never apologized for her paranoid accusations back in '98, but for her to reprise the theme, especially when her quislings are attacking Rudy for his marital woes, shows an unmitigated gall.
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Quote:
Matter-eater Man said:
I remember all to well all the bitching from conservatives about Hillary being an unelected co-President. That was then I guess & now it's time to play it the other way.
I'm not going to vote for her, but I agree with your statement.
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Yeah, that's actually the best point MEM has made in a long time. However, given that she denied being a co-president until now, the unnamed conservatives cited aren't the only ones flip flopping on this issue.
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Hillary of course isn't saying she was co-president now or then. She is quite rightly highlighting her experiences as First Lady. People like G-man want to do downplay that as much as they can to help their crappy candidate & plus they really hate Hillary. They love the guy who doesn't see his kids & ditched his wife publicy at a press conference, so go figure.
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Quote:
Matter-eater Man said:
Hillary of course isn't saying she was co-president now or then.
I know someone who would disagree with you, Chris:
Quote:
Hillary Diane Rodham Clinton said:
I'm not going to have some reporters pawing through our papers We are the president.
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That would be the equivalent of when Dave Letterman run's a President Bush's quote. The only difference is Bush supplies comedians with more of them.
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So now you're saying that Hillary is prone to Bush-like speaking gaffes?
Wow. Chris. This whole election has you in a bizarro world or something.
First you're attacking candidates for not having conservative family values. Now you're accusing democrats of speaking gaffes.
What's next? Attacking Obama for being Muslim?
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That would be recognizing anyone is capable of providing a quote like that. (I'll have to post some Bush quotes when I get a chance) Where & when did she say that btw?
If we're talking bizzaro world, let me remind you a couple of posts ago you were underplaying Hillary's time in the White House.
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Quote:
There's an old saying in Tennessee — I know it's in Texas, probably in Tennessee — that says, fool me once, shame on — shame on you. Fool me — you can't get fooled again." —President George W. Bush, Nashville, Tenn., Sept. 17, 2002
Bow ties are coool.
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Quote:
Matter-eater Man said:
If we're talking bizzaro world, let me remind you a couple of posts ago you were underplaying Hillary's time in the White House.
Actually, I was, in fact, pointing out that she and Bill have, shall we say, fluid memories of her experience.
I will say, and have said, this, however: that while Hillary has some experience, the only thing that got her where she is today is her marriage. If she hadn't married Bill she'd not only not be a candidate, she wouldn't even be a Senator.
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Quote:
Karl Hungus said:
Quote:
There's an old saying in Tennessee — I know it's in Texas, probably in Tennessee — that says, fool me once, shame on — shame on you. Fool me — you can't get fooled again." —President George W. Bush, Nashville, Tenn., Sept. 17, 2002
It is really hard to believe he quit drinking & doing drugs.
Fair play!
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Joined: May 2003
Posts: 43,951 Likes: 6
Officially "too old for this shit" 15000+ posts
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Officially "too old for this shit" 15000+ posts
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 43,951 Likes: 6 |
Yesterday, I noted that Mrs. Bill Clinton had reprised her 1998 claim that there is a "vast right-wing conspiracy." As evidence, she cited the convictions of three New Hampshire Republicans on charges of "phone jamming" during the 2002 election campaign. But consider this story, which appeared in the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel: Milwaukee County Circuit Judge Michael B. Brennan sentenced four Democratic Party workers to jail Wednesday for slashing tires on 25 vans rented by Republicans to take voters to polls for the 2004 presidential election. So the left-wing conspiracy is a third vaster than the right-wing one.
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