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This topic came to my mind reading the Siege. I am not spoiling anything for who had not yet read it, but one post in the GREAT story by Grimm (go read it, if you have not yet done it) made me wondering what was MY all-time Vanguard line up.
To make it in line with the general rules of the writings, I say that just one character for poster could be chosen.
My all-time Revolutionaries/MBL/Vanguard line up is (from the earliest to join):
Euro (it's my character, I am fond of it, can I exclude him?)
Kristogar Velo (the gadget-era Batman, with some of the current toughness. A long gone character- and poster- who in the few posts he appeared struck my imagination with a sea of potential roles)
Doctor Quantos (for me, still the best character from TTT . Maybe he has not been considered a true V member, but for me it is. He is, or at last has been for some time, a glue for Vanguard. Truly human, with a supermind, he is for me an essential part of Vanguard.)
Dirk Bell (the human character among the superhumans, with very human goals -find a woman to gave birth to a child to continue a legacy... cool!- forced to be the best to keep up with his meta gifted colleagues, and with a mysterious past in space so far from what his character is -or seems-about. The coolest one, for me)
Phil Smith (I have a special fondness for telepatic characters, having written one for a couple of years in TOMB. I picture Smith in my all time Vanguard, more for what I expect from him than what he has done. I loved him madly in his first apparitions- when he was hiding under the table and when he saw Sinatra under the sea- but I am again liking him a lot these days, after the Dark World adventure.
Drake Marshall (I don't see him as a Captain America - he was a vigilante, a man of roof and nights, afraid of publicity and shy of reporters - more of a Spiderman, I'd say, and I dislike Pro's interpretation of him as a well known hero, that clash with all that has been written about the HR Universe before (but Ozzie's admiration for him was a great touch, in itself). His stepping from lone warrior to Vanguard (E) leader is perfect, and perfectly done. I see in him the true Vanguard leader).
Ozzie Baxter (What a great character! One power, great background, though attitude. I love him. So different from Prometheus, and yet equally "round", real. As usual, great stuff from Pro's mind).
Nobody (Mxy did it again. Another masterpiece creation. Whatever hero he wants to write, now he can. And it is the revamp of a stuffed doll from the old Universe. Why I am not able to come up with things like that?)
Lady Likopys (Wonder Woman done right. Can I add more? CJ is quickly becoming one of the best... no, she is one of the best writer/creators around here. Kudos for all her work. Lady "Bitch" is fantastic).
Edmund Gaunt (I love him. A sort of cross between Prometheus X from the early MBL stories, and a friendlier Shade. The door for vanguard to step into disturbing dimensions...)
And that's my line-up.
I know some posters have not been mentioned. Chewy and Gooz, for example. But I see just tow characters, from them, in my Vanguard line up, despite what they could think: Charles Walker and Agent Turner. Two characters much more real than the others, from them, that have joined Vanguard. More mature, profound and motivated. Walker would be my chosen director for an "Authority/Avenger/JLA Vanguard. A man not on the field, but at the table of the War Room. I see a lot of the old Chewy Walrus of the last days of TOMB in him. And Turner would simply be the powerful Vanguardian of all times.
And Robo Squirrel would also been on the list, if not for the fact that the little guy has not yet actually joined Vanguard. I am not joking. The little robot is the proof of Danny's ability. He turned a one line joke into a cool, unexpected character not less credible than the likes of Mxy, Phouka, Naecken or Adem, with a mysterious agenda and the needed role of funny relief, without being useless in hard situations. I prefer him to Danny, that from the last story seems to have been a character with a definite story-arc, cut from a free, unwritten evolution.
Last, a mention of Bruteforce. The berserker aspect that we saw just one time, I think is the prelude to cool revelations, like I-man made us used to in the old universe. I am waiting, ready to include BF in my list.
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Quote:
Eurostar said:
Euro (it's my character, I am fond of it, can I exclude him?)
Which incarnation? 
Quote:
Dirk Bell (the human character among the superhumans, with very human goals -find a woman to gave birth to a child to continue a legacy... cool!- forced to be the best to keep up with his meta gifted colleagues, and with a mysterious past in space so far from what his character is -or seems-about. The coolest one, for me)
Phil Smith (I have a special fondness for telepatic characters, having written one for a couple of years in TOMB. I picture Smith in my all time Vanguard, more for what I expect from him than what he has done. I loved him madly in his first apparitions- when he was hiding under the table and when he saw Sinatra under the sea- but I am again liking him a lot these days, after the Dark World adventure.
No doubt! Dirk and Phil, together or single, have become definite cornerstones of Vanguard. Dirk is so astutely defined, while Phil is utterly frothing with further potential. Two classics.
Quote:
Drake Marshall (I don't see him as a Captain America - he was a vigilante, a man of roof and nights, afraid of publicity and shy of reporters - more of a Spiderman, I'd say, and I dislike Pro's interpretation of him as a well known hero, that clash with all that has been written about the HR Universe before (but Ozzie's admiration for him was a great touch, in itself). His stepping from lone warrior to Vanguard (E) leader is perfect, and perfectly done. I see in him the true Vanguard leader).
I respect your dislike of the interpretation. My first attempt at Drake was H&L. It sucked. It was great, if it had been a completely different character. But, for Drake, it sucked. However, at the time, I didn't know.
As for the "well-known" aspect, I was actually going off of what NotWedge had been doing already. With him doing commercials, and being a 'heroic' face for his wife's company, I would imagine he would be "well-known" by today. The stories of yesterday, that Ozzy worships so well, are simply tabloid exaggerations of those 'urban-myth' days....as Drake has been pointing out to Ozzy since the beginning. The 'Captain America'-aspect, though, is simply a baseline description of his abilities, not neccessarily his persona or image.
But, hey, we all have our own perspectives. 
Quote:
Ozzie Baxter (What a great character! One power, great background, though attitude. I love him. So different from Prometheus, and yet equally "round", real. As usual, great stuff from Pro's mind).
Much appreciated. I have to say, though, I don't believe I've actually found Ozzy's true voice yet. But, he's getting there...
Quote:
Nobody (Mxy did it again. Another masterpiece creation. Whatever hero he wants to write, now he can. And it is the revamp of a stuffed doll from the old Universe. Why I am not able to come up with things like that?)
Lady Likopys (Wonder Woman done right. Can I add more? CJ is quickly becoming one of the best... no, she is one of the best writer/creators around here. Kudos for all her work. Lady "Bitch" is fantastic).
Edmund Gaunt (I love him. A sort of cross between Prometheus X from the early MBL stories, and a friendlier Shade. The door for vanguard to step into disturbing dimensions...)
Abso-fucking-lutely!! I love these characters. Writing Lykopis is wonderful, as I get to exercise that "Hippolytia" writing muscle. I'm slowly getting there with Gaunt. However, your comparison of The X is interesting, and one I had not originally thought of. As far as Nobody, well, I voted for him in the Kampies for a reason. Quite simply, a genius creation that I hate Mxy for creating first. Untold billions of avenues of potential, direction, interpretation, and all-in-all creative synergy. Bravo to Mxy, for the umpteenth time.
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As for my favorite character of each writer, well, this is off the top of my head....
- Raptor : Give me the natural-winged, mace-wielding warrior-philosopher-Ed, or give me no Ed at all. I think Raptor is a hardcore character, that deserves to kick as much ass as I can write. I hope fatherhood doesn't kill that aspect of his character. Simplicity is the key. And, at his simplest, Raptor is a wall that simply will not crumble.
- Grissom Montag : Oh, without a fucking doubt. I can't tell you the nights I've spent listening to music, while mentally crafting Montag fight-scenes. Using actor Jason Statham (Snatch, The Transporter) as my baseline image, I've had everything from martini bar ninja battles, to a step-by-step scene of the ultimate thief breaking into and back out of the Pentagon. I simply adore Grissom as a character. And, while I dislike the idea of him getting bogged down with only one lover (sorry CJ), Chewy never fails to amaze me with this guy.
- Sam Dawson : The man who is everywhere and nowhere. Everything, and, nothing at all. I love the idea of a liquid-morph chameleon that can slide into any situation or battle unassuming, and, yet, unbeatable. I don't know enough about the EPS to even consider the Turner character Euro loves. I imagine he must be pretty cool. But, for me, Shift takes the trophy.
- Kristofer Schanz : One-part Reed Richards, two parts Doc Savage, add sprinkles of sheer confidence, and serve with sizable portions of no-win scenarios. Chance was a man among men in Vanguard. Constant, determined, and without a doubt, TTT's finest creation in the Vanguard universe. And, unfortunately, with the most classic death scene in the Vanguard universe as well, nigh-impossible to bring back. Still, TTT took a note from Jerry Seinfeld, and pulled the curtain at the height of the character's run. Bravo indeed.
- Phil Smith : I can't say enough good things about the character of Phil. I also can't say enough good things about the potential of the character. The dominant telepath of the Vanguard universe, Smith is set to become a key figure in the socio-political ramifications of the metahuman community. I see him as a public voice for all of the reclusive telepathic metahumans. The one, key figure that can show the world that a metahuman can become a functioning, integral part of human civilization. If metahumans as whole ever needed an ambassador, then, Mr. Smith must go to Washington. We may give Phil the writer alot of shit, but, we certainly can't do the same for his character.
- Adem Different : It was a tough call considering Dirk Bell. I mean, Bell is an immortal statement on every gun-toting, leather-wearing cliche to ever see print. And, as a writer, Doc took the cliche and made it a shining example of an idea at its core. The baddest, the toughest, and the best....but, still, only human. And, given even that, I still have to go with Adem here. Different is exactly his name. And that is what I love about the character. There is no defined box to put him in. All it takes is understanding the nature of unpredictable genius, and an eye for backtracking logic. That's why I love Adem. Because he is the everyman of no one. He is a singular representation, that cannot be compared to anything before. I love originality.
- Grimm : GRIMMMM!!!!! Shout it out. It's cool to do. It rolls off your tongue with any emotion you want to apply. And, that name says it all. My fondness for the character precedes my friendship with the writer. In as much, my friendship does not sway my opinion here. Grimm stands as the face(less) presence of a particular generation of Vanguard. Coming in during an era that was plateauing too fast, this dark, somber giant cut to the quick of what this team was all about, and stood as their prime defense against everything the world could throw their way. Another cliche turned on its ear into something unique. And, as the avatar of death, something to be feared.
- Danny Hearn : Come on. Do I even have to explain it? Do I have to go into a diatribe on the absoluteness of leadership qualities and potential? Do I have to go on and on about the diversity of abilties, and adaptability of presence? Do I even have to discuss the fully-realized persona and characteristics of a fictional being who is as real as any of us sitting in front of our computer? No. No, I don't. And, that's really the point, isn't it?
- Mick "Mxy" Harrison : Yes, I know I voted for Nobody in the Kampies. For many reasons. Not only can a character like Mxy take care of itself in terms of popularity and genius, but, the idea and potential of Nobody is something to be seized and appreciated. Still, when it comes down to it, Mick was one-in-forty-billion. Being, he was one-in-the-population-of-the-planet. Simply, the most powerful creature this universe has ever produced. And, the most human, as well. Everyone knows I love the idea of playing mortals with gods. Mxy, as a character, is simply another perspective on that idea, and none of us can say enough good things about the spirit of fun and imagination that the writer Mxy brought with him.
- Brianna : Don't ask me to spell her last name from memory. But, then again, you don't have to, do you? Brianna. That name says it all. Thanks to the crafting of CJ's blossoming writing skills, that name has become synonomous with integrity, finnesse, and a focused personality that borders so close to realism, it's a bit creepy. It's like, you're almost afraid to have another character degrade the feminine respect and intelligence in any scene, for fear that the character herself will come see you one dark, stormy night. Perhaps this is the intent that CJ has for Lykopis. However, what tops Brianna over Lykopis is the subtlety in how the character achieves such a presence. It isn't a dominant aspect that you can immediately acknowledge. Not sweet, innocent, unassuming Bri.......armed with blades, crossbows, and a decisive eye towards aerial combat. In other words, there is a reason for the 'Hawk'-analogies.
Tayden, Dr. Huerta, and Jym all get honorable mentions here....
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Pro, re: Drake Marshall, you are partially right, in the sense that you build from some aspect of the character that NotWedge created (the commercials, the public face of the company), and that I think stretched the boundaries of the HR Universe too much. But, in a dozens writers created Universe, it is simply impossible not to have clashing interpretations of what's-going-around. re: Agent Turner, try to find in the oldest pages of this forum the Gooz-and-myself written "Euro and Turner: soaring above madness" semi-solo story. It's not long, but I still think it was the most fun thing I have partecipated to after the Malvana's song-Triarchy War crossover. And it explain a lot about Euro and Turner. re: Raptor, no, even if he has changed hero name (Thunderbird) it will be the same character. Once freed for Ladnikia, I decided to give him the things many writers (YOU, especially ) gave him "uncharacteristically". Wings on the back, so to have arms free, and a big fucking mace (a "real" mace from Chinese mythology, that creates lighting like Mjolnir). But he is the same as before. About the kids (and the "wife"), the reason is to set definitely a difference between Vanguard Europe and Vanguard "classic". While VE are professionals, who gathers just for the missions, are payed for what they do, and are a well organised association, V classic is the "club" of adventurer that was in Gooz and others minds when they traveled to La Perdita, when the idea of the company of "merc" was not yet born. The people of V classic are just friends that enjoys each oter for the past life they had, that love mystery and adventure and delve with that for passion, while having private lives and "real" jobs. But it the sense of family, compared to focused professionalism, the difference between the two Vanguards. MBL and TOMB, if you want.
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Quote:
Eurostar said:
re: Raptor, no, even if he has changed hero name (Thunderbird) it will be the same character. Once freed for Ladnikia, I decided to give him the things many writers (YOU, especially ) gave him "uncharacteristically". Wings on the back, so to have arms free, and a big fucking mace (a "real" mace from Chinese mythology, that creates lighting like Mjolnir). But he is the same as before.
About the kids (and the "wife"), the reason is to set definitely a difference between Vanguard Europe and Vanguard "classic".
Awesome.
BTW, what is the name of your mace, and what would its translation mean? I want to better understand the nature of such a weapon.
Also, don't you think having Raptor pull a 'sister-sword' to Rama's Caliburne is sort of overkill? I certainly am not trying to be rude or insulting in any way. However, since Ed's already weilding a mythological thunder-mace, why should he have to arm himself with such a spectacular sword? Each character should bring something singularly unique to the group, trusting that their characters fill the niche' that they, and the rest of the writers, craft them into. While, at the same time, they should allow others to be king of their own special skill. To me, in this current group, given your new winged/mace-ed status, Rama Avatar is the prime swordsman, as well as the more "traveled" of the characters. As Phil brings the mental and metal firepower, Grissom brings the superior hand-to-hand and espionage skills , Jackie brings the stealth-aspect of aerial-bladed combat, RoboSquirrel brings bizarre (and a bit creepy) comedy relief, Bruteforce brings his name, and my character will cover a lesser-leveled mystical quality. In that, Ed holds the seasoned-warrior role. He's got his mace, his tenacity, his wings, his courage, a driven passion, and an adventurer career that spawns to the very dawn of the metahuman age. Giving him a sword is, in my opinion, overkill.
Quote:
While VE are professionals, who gathers just for the missions, are payed for what they do, and are a well organised association, V classic is the "club" of adventurer that was in Gooz and others minds when they traveled to La Perdita, when the idea of the company of "merc" was not yet born.
The people of V classic are just friends that enjoys each oter for the past life they had, that love mystery and adventure and delve with that for passion, while having private lives and "real" jobs. But it the sense of family, compared to focused professionalism, the difference between the two Vanguards. MBL and TOMB, if you want.
Oh, I couldn't agree more!
The distinction between Vanguard and VE is obvious, and understood. I have no problems with characters having families, partners, or spouses. However, I must assume it is understood that those characters, and their appearances and interactions with the main story, is solely the responsibility of the writer that created them, and is in no way neccessary for other writers to have to acknowledge them, or include them in scenes. I respect that aspect of your character, and, may even have dialogue of that nature touching on that aspect from time to time. But, I have no desire to write about that aspect of your character. It does not further Ed in my eyes. It is a chain that pigeonholes the character into a stagnant, standard evolution. This is not to say that you couldn't surprise me. I merely have no interest in the family aspects of Ed.
I love that there is a defined distinction between Vanguard and VE. It gives so much room for exapansion on either side. It also give a choice for the writers, much like MBL and TOMB. Those that wanted less intense/serious would write in the MBL. Those that wanted a bit more serious would write in TOMB. That's why I'm loving this aspect of change in the Vanguard universe. It's opening more and more avenues of expression and imagination.
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My "all-time" Vanguard line-up, eh? Hurm... Danny Hearn: I love this character! The possibilities are practically limitless and his leadership abilities have been exhibited time and again. And, as he's one member with possibly the longest tenure (next to Raptor), that makes him the best choice to act as leader of Vanguard, IMO. Drake Marshall: Post-Drax Marshall with the vigilante moves and boy scout charm. His role with Vanguard International leads me to believe that, had he been able to then, he would have made a perfect compliment to Danny as a 'lieutenant' or 'executive officer'. That's why I love stories like The Siege, because they afford us the opportunity to ask 'what if...?' Grissom Montag: Easily the best character I've ever created. He single-handedly brought me into the Vanguard Universe as a player in the main story threads after the idea of a 'modified Nightcrawler' came to me one night on the verge of sleep. Sprinkle in elements of James Bond and Indiana Jones... and I've got myself one of the most fun characters I've ever conceived. Phil Smith: While very similar to Grissom in many ways, it's the character of Phil Smith (the character, not the poster... ) that has always intrigued me. He's a telepath who is by and large ultimately uncertain of the nature of his own powers. And, like a metaphor for every person on the planet, he is desperately searching for his roots and origins... in the hopes of finding his place in the world. Mick Harrison: I miss this guy. I really do. On the one hand, you have one of the most powerful entities in the universe and, on the other, you have a carefree happy-go-lucky guy who's imagining the whole thing. Friggin' A! Mxy is an absolutely brilliant write r to come up with this concept. Here's hoping both Mick and Mxy are back before too much time passes... Pete Glover: I always loved this character, despite never being able to write his crazy accent to TTT's liking. He was fun and offered a much different, almost lackadaisical perspective on whatever was being done. Personally, though, I feel he was taken out before I really got a chance to write him. Mason Templar: I mean this as no great slight to any other posters, but I cannot in good conscience include my own personal favorite Vanguard line-up without including one of my favorite character concepts - Mason Templar. Almost as timeless as the winds and with the wit, knowledge, wisdom, and "chops" to prove it, Templar is an adventurer through and through... and so much fun to write! Grimm: I kind of wish the ramifications of having the friggin' Avatar of Death on the team would have for a group like Vanguard. We never really saw much of that. Plus, Grimm brings a great deal of brute strength and stone cold force to the group, which I can really respect about him. Brianna Finula: This is a great character, plain and simple. Her attachment to my own character aside, Brianna has stepped into her own as a team leader. She brings a heavy balance of both feminine sensitivity and aggressiveness to a team obvious overpowered with testosterone. Cheers, Ceej! Raptor: Post-Ladnikia Raptor, preferably. For all the reasons Pro listed. At this point, he cares about the team too much to abandon it and has been through enough personal crises (from the Chicago Revolution to his possession by Ladnikia) to have a reason for staying. He's a lifer and, in one very real sense, the heart of Vanguard. Ozzy Baxter: The tough-skinned fighter with a heart of gold. Ozzy has all the right moves and a uniquely-devised power that allows him to face literally anything. Created in a way only Prometheus can, he brings a hard-edged humanity to Vanguard, which is a nice contrast to the humor and sensitivity of character Pro has brought to him. Adem Different: Like Pro, I really struggled between Dirk and Adem, but ultimately, I had to go with the alien. I'll miss Dirk, to be certain, but I love Adem's concept - i.e. he's just Different. There's almost no wrong way to write him, and I love that about him. Plus, with his mad detective skills and scores of alien knowledge, he's quite simply a great character to have on any well-rounded team. Sam Dawson: As much as I liked Priest, Dawson had more depth of character and complexity of nature. A shapeshifter who hides his scars behind his flexible skin, something we'd all do given half the chance. Dawson is a very human persona with a very superhuman ability, which I like.
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Quote:
Prometheus said:
Grissom Montag : Oh, without a fucking doubt. I can't tell you the nights I've spent listening to music, while mentally crafting Montag fight-scenes. Using actor Jason Statham (Snatch, The Transporter) as my baseline image, I've had everything from martini bar ninja battles, to a step-by-step scene of the ultimate thief breaking into and back out of the Pentagon. I simply adore Grissom as a character. And, while I dislike the idea of him getting bogged down with only one lover (sorry CJ), Chewy never fails to amaze me with this guy.
Pro, doesn't 'Fighting Man' from The Transporter soundtrack fit Montag perfectly? One the reasons I love having good base on the computer...
"You're either lying or stupid."
"I'm stupid! I'm stupid!"
Megatron and Starscream
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I don't have that soundtrack.....is there a link online to it?
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No, but I'll send you the file if you get on AOL. I think I'm getting the CD for Christmas, but right now I'm living off my mp3 copy.
"You're either lying or stupid."
"I'm stupid! I'm stupid!"
Megatron and Starscream
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Right...Cowgirl's list...
Danny
Fun to write, and fun to read about. Plus, being an animal lover myself, I always found it fun to test things out on Danny. Besides the Amazing Animal Powers (TM), I really dug the futuristic aspect with Danny and Hal's background. It was so sad to see him leave.
I never did get to write the "Hal, snake penis!" bit.
Raptor
Pro and Chewy managed to eat up all the compliments before I did. Cheers to the Hawkman! Was his history confusing back when I was a greenhorn? Fuck yeah. Would I have it any other way? Nope.
Drake and Drax
Ouch. I really like Drake more and more now that he's walking around and taken over as leading in Vanguard Europe. Sometimes I think the 'celeb' aspect is a little overdone, but I appriciate the humor. Despite all this, I loved the idea of him and Drax's link. Extra points since Drax doesn't even look like a typical dragon. Much more orignal. Hopefully one day we can have both of them in the same room in a main story.
Ozzy
So, it turns out my roommate LOVES Unbreakable and was so surprised I haven't seen it yet. Oh well. Ozzy's so fun to write -- heck, I even like his name. We need a character that we can beat the shit out of, be it for comic relief or to actually move the story forward. It's a good way to let out agression as well. "I only got a B on that paper? Well, I'll go home and right Ozzy getting run over by a train. That'll make me feel better." I am looking forward to the ways he'll escape getting the crap beat out of him by Lykopis.
Gaunt
My favorite character of Grimm's so far. Still haven't gotten Guant down yet, but like with Danny, I simply enjoy reading more with him in it. The whole shadow power is fun to work with. Plus, I enjoy him scaring the shit out of Ozzy. Pro, you were brilliant in the last VE post.
Grissom Montag
Ah, what's there not to love about Grissom? Besides the stuggle I go through trying to figure out how to make the word 'door' sound more British. As soon as I saw X2 I feel in love with Nightcrawler, and I'm glad to see that transporter power is in Vanguard. Jason Statham is currently pinned to our fridge, and it's hard to picture Grissom any other way. It's weird seeing him with only one girl, but someone, I get the feeling Montag mimics Richard Sharpe -- still chasing skirts, but somehow, it doesn't seem all to bad when he does it.
Phil Smith
Note to self: take more time writing mental scenes with Phil. The human mind is an incredible thing, and it makes sense that for Phil, it is the ultimate battlefield. Hoo-rah. Plus, I always enjoyed the relationship between Phil and Leslie.
Adem Different
Okay, I have never heard of anyone spelling their name that way. But nevermind. Adem's so fun to write. Jive, baby, jive. He's so misplaced and awkward that we have an unlimited list of tricks and stories he can bring in to the net. Let's have some more of this travelin' alien. And his smart-assed AI.
Brianna
When I started writing Lykopis, I wanted her to be the 'correct' version of Brianna. First step -- don't give her an impossible last name! Brianna's is currently on a sticky-note next to my computer. I can't even remember it (then again, I can't remember my own zip code)! At the time, I thought Brianna had suffered from my lack of experience and Lykopis would be the 'solution'. However, by that time I had grown fond of little Banshee, and I realized that I would have to work my ass off to make sure she wouldn't be tossed in the scrap pile. The two of us have come a long way, and I'm pleased with the little Irish bird.
"You're either lying or stupid."
"I'm stupid! I'm stupid!"
Megatron and Starscream
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Quote:
Cowgirl Jack said:
I never did get to write the "Hal, snake penis!" bit.
Okay, I'm bringing him back JUST for that.
Thing is- I can’t spell or type. I spell so badly my spell check doesn’t even know what I was trying to spell. And I have five Eisners HAHAHAHHA!!
-Brian Michael Bendis
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To Pro: About The Raptor Simply put, you are right. Durendal, Thunderbird's sword, it is overkill. It became obvious to me the moment I had Euro unleashing it for the forst time in story during the current issue. probaly, I would't give it to Euro, at last for now, if I would rewrite the "origin" sequence for the new "incarnation" of Euro. Just, I want to explain my reasons. When I started to write Euro, in the very first post of the HR Universe, I wanted to do my version of Flash. Then, the very second post, saw the return of Tobias Christopher, and inevitably he was going to play Flash. So, I decided to try another of my favourite DC characters, Hawkman. To do that credibly, I took the very long course, recapping in a twisted manner all the transformations of the old Universe Euro: from speedster to ghost to superhuman (when he had the Colony exoskeleton) to angel. So I turned the HR Euro into a phasing man (the Ghost), then superhuman (the short lived EPS agent) and finally I gave him wings (angel). Just, again I did a little mistake: I gave him feathers on the arms. That made him the perfect element for bad descriptions: so we had Euro using the sword while flying (an impossible thing) or carrying people (another impossible task, unless that people kept himself embraced to Euro's legs). Sometime I did those mistakes myself. And more than else, people were keeping to give a mace to him. But there was an aspect that made him very similar to Hawkman, something I first explored with Nemo in TOMB, and that came from one of may favourite heroes, Elric of Melinibonè : the Eternal Champion concept. Hawkman has memories of his past incarnations; Nemo had memories of his own ancestors. I gave Euro the "curse" of seeing fights trough the eyes of mythological heroes of the past: a thing I found cool, and TTT also, but that was evidently difficult for the others, as, me apart, only TTT played with the concept once, if I remember correctly. So, I have thrown away also that thing, keeping just the "memories". Now he is very like Hawkman, with memories of past "incarnations", a "wife" and sons. I also want to give him an arsenal of ancient weapons, and the mace and the sword are just the beginning. There is more: one of the central aspect of the most part of heroes (and gods) from mythologies from all over the world is the fight with the dragon: Marduck and Tiamat, Heracles and the Hydra, Beowulf, Siegfrid, Saint George and the dragon, Zeus and Typhoon, even the Jewish god had to fight the Leviathan and other monsters. With a sword. The sword is central to the figure of the hero slayers of dragon. And Euro has been destined to be an hero fighting (and one day, I hope) killing (maybe figuratively) the dragon long before I though of making him an incarnation of the recurring figure of the HERO, without me being aware. Who is the worst enemy of Euro, since page one of the fist HR story? Who kept him separated from his "son"? Doctor Knell. The Leviathan. A dragon-man. So, I understand the duplicity of Euro and Mason/Rama, and of their sword. And that, too, had a strange and unwanted origin. Mason was originally (I can reveal it, right, TTT, now that is an abandoned plot?) an evil character. One that was to enlist into Vanguard for evil schemes. Caliburn would have been his for some time, until he was revealed to be a villain, and then it could have been given to Euro, once freed from Ladnikia. Caliburn would have been THE sword. The sword of all the dragon slayers. Then Mason came out so good that TTT, rightfully, wanted to keep him as a good guy (remember, it was Axel destined, until then, to be TTT's hero). He was very kind to ask me to take Caliburn for Euro, but I refused, as it was rightfully in the hand of Mason. And if you read the Christmas special, you'll see that Euro has vivid memories of when Caliburn (or Excalibur) was his own. So, because every Dragon-slayer hero needs a sword (and, thinking about it, Excaliburn was NOT a dragon-killing sword), I gave Euro the sword of Italian tradition, Durlindana, the sword of Orlando, or, in the original Ancient French language, Durendal of Roland. But agreeing with Pro's arguments, I will put Durendal in the Vanguard museum on the top floor of Euro's home/restaurant, and I will take it out only when the time for the last battle with the Leviathan will come (Chewy's allowing it, obviously ). By the way, I am still even not sure that the dragon Euro one day will have to kill is Knell. There is another serpent-blooded metas around in the HR Universe, and having him as the nemesis of Euro will make him an even, way more, tragic figure. But it will take years to accomplish that. As for Euro's family, there is a reason for its existence, but they are my characters. If one wants to write them, they are usable, if one don't want, it's perfectly fine. They are not Vanguard, they are Euro's family. But they make's Euro happier, for example, making him less gloom and doom (thinks Robin, for comparison). They could be plot devices, or simply exist somewhere on the island. They are like Leslie for Phil, Axel for Rama, Jake's place for Bruteforce, Brandon for Brianna, the company for Grissom... the normal life to which to return when the adventure has ended. There is no absolute reason for which you, or anyone, should feel obliged to write them. I never wrote a line about the B-team, for example, and I think no one complined or ever even noticed it. One last thing about ED: his role of dragon-slayer incarnation is something that put him on opposition to Drake, that is the dragon-master. We have played with it in the Dark World story, but I hope to delve more in that, obviously if and when NotWedge will return. Ah, another last thing: the mace has no name. The Chineses never gave it one.
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I think we can call it the Thundermace. I find it cool, but I can't know how it sounds in English.
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"You're either lying or stupid."
"I'm stupid! I'm stupid!"
Megatron and Starscream
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Quote:
Eurostar said:
When I started to write Euro, in the very first post of the HR Universe, I wanted to do my version of Flash. Then, the very second post, saw the return of Tobias Christopher, and inevitably he was going to play Flash.
So, I decided to try another of my favourite DC characters, Hawkman. To do that credibly, I took the very long course, recapping in a twisted manner all the transformations of the old Universe Euro: from speedster to ghost to superhuman (when he had the Colony exoskeleton) to angel.
So I turned the HR Euro into a phasing man (the Ghost), then superhuman (the short lived EPS agent) and finally I gave him wings (angel).
Excellent. This makes alot more sense to me, and helps me understand all that I have missed about the character. Not saying I won't elaborate here and there, or ever get him entirely accurate to your vision, but, if nothing else, helps me to understand the character a bit more.
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But there was an aspect that made him very similar to Hawkman, something I first explored with Nemo in TOMB, and that came from one of may favourite heroes, Elric of Melinibonè : the Eternal Champion concept.
Hawkman has memories of his past incarnations; Nemo had memories of his own ancestors. I gave Euro the "curse" of seeing fights trough the eyes of mythological heroes of the past: a thing I found cool, and TTT also, but that was evidently difficult for the others, as, me apart, only TTT played with the concept once, if I remember correctly.
Actually, I quite like alot of this.
Quote:
The sword is central to the figure of the hero slayers of dragon. And Euro has been destined to be an hero fighting (and one day, I hope) killing (maybe figuratively) the dragon long before I though of making him an incarnation of the recurring figure of the HERO, without me being aware. Who is the worst enemy of Euro, since page one of the fist HR story? Who kept him separated from his "son"? Doctor Knell. The Leviathan. A dragon-man.
An excellent path to try and follow. It makes sense, and works quite well. I would hope, though, that your overall "plan" does not dominate the nature of the character or stray his interaction with the other characters to such an extreme degree. And, remember what happened to Beowulf. To follow the actual path of such mythic icons, Edulcore would have to die his final and permanent death by the hands of the very serpent he kills. Better choose that enemy wisely....
Quote:
But agreeing with Pro's arguments, I will put Durendal in the Vanguard museum on the top floor of Euro's home/restaurant, and I will take it out only when the time for the last battle with the Leviathan will come (Chewy's allowing it, obviously ).
I think it would wise, for now. If nothing else, you could do it like Geoff Johns did for Hawkman, and have some scene show which weapon he would decide to take at the beginning of every mission. Make it obvious, too. That way, every writer knows from the onset that Ed will carrying [INSERT WEAPON] into that particular battle. Just a suggestion.
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As for Euro's family, there is a reason for its existence, but they are my characters. If one wants to write them, they are usable, if one don't want, it's perfectly fine. They are not Vanguard, they are Euro's family. But they make's Euro happier, for example, making him less gloom and doom (thinks Robin, for comparison). They could be plot devices, or simply exist somewhere on the island.
They are like Leslie for Phil, Axel for Rama, Jake's place for Bruteforce, Brandon for Brianna, the company for Grissom... the normal life to which to return when the adventure has ended.
There is no absolute reason for which you, or anyone, should feel obliged to write them. I never wrote a line about the B-team, for example, and I think no one complined or ever even noticed it.
Absolutely. I completely agree 100% here. I'm all for secondary characters, as long as they are not a required item of the group-plot. Otherwise, I think secondary characters help define the main character in ways their teammates could not.
Quote:
One last thing about ED: his role of dragon-slayer incarnation is something that put him on opposition to Drake, that is the dragon-master. We have played with it in the Dark World story, but I hope to delve more in that, obviously if and when NotWedge will return.
Yeah, I never quite understood where NotWedge was going with that. And, am not sure what to do with three "Mythic Swords" running around the Vanguard Universe (i.e. Caliburne, Durendal, and, Drake's 'Dragon-Sword'). Still, I guess we'll just have to wait and see if he ever ties that stuff up.
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Ah, another last thing: the mace has no name. The Chineses never gave it one.
Well, with your permission, I'll do some research and see if I can find anything appropriate that would fit its cultural parameters. I'll run some by you in an IM when I find something.
Or, we could go with 'Bob'.... 
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Bob is a very significant name of legend. You see, spelled backwards it says. . .Bob.
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Quote:
Just, again I did a little mistake: I gave him feathers on the arms. That made him the perfect element for bad descriptions: so we had Euro using the sword while flying (an impossible thing) or carrying people (another impossible task, unless that people kept himself embraced to Euro's legs). Sometime I did those mistakes myself.
That's just a function of the writing. There's a guy flying with wings on his arms and he uses a sword. People are going to write that. I think we all just willingly overlooked the difficulty of that to try to write something cool. It never bothered me.
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And more than else, people were keeping to give a mace to him.
That was largely me. heh. What's Hawkman without a mace? Especially the post-Ladnikia Raptor, who I saw as, much like Hawkman does, using different weapons for different jobs.
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Quote:
Yeah, I never quite understood where NotWedge was going with that. And, am not sure what to do with three "Mythic Swords" running around the Vanguard Universe (i.e. Caliburne, Durendal, and, Drake's 'Dragon-Sword'). Still, I guess we'll just have to wait and see if he ever ties that stuff up.
To my understanding, Drake's blade is not "mythic" nor is it a "dragon sword," it's merely indestructible in the manner that Captain America's shield is.
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Maybe it's made out of adamen...ademind...whatever that stuff from the X-men is called...
"You're either lying or stupid."
"I'm stupid! I'm stupid!"
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"You're either lying or stupid."
"I'm stupid! I'm stupid!"
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Rather than do an all-time Vanguad, I decided to do an all-time M.B.L.
_________________________
Rypta Gud'n: (Team Leader) The Rhyme God whose strength was only limited by his words was born to lead and led well until his death… deaths… well, the whole ascending to the other plain thingie. He was stuck in the body of a purpled haired 17 year old for a millennia and his only love was murdered moments after their wedding. Battle worn and sometimes cold, Rypta always puts the world and innocents ahead of his own needs (well, except that one time with the alien baby that…).
His ”original” uniform: a purple costume, with a red X across the chest (the first diagonal line extends from his right shoulder to the left thigh, and the other line goes from just under the left arm to the right hip), red boots and a red cape connected by a wire across his collar bone.
Grissom Montag: (Tactical/Communications) Grissom is the perfect tactical leader and strategic planner and he would mix well with Rypta’s brave and stern leading abilities. If anything happened at the HQ while the team was in battle, no doubt that Grisson would hold his own and protect the “homeland.” If we’ve learned anything in the stories, the HQ is always attacked.
Uniform? Nope, only the best suits money can buy. Montag, Grisson Montag.
Gooz: (Second In Command) The original “back-from-the-dead” Gooz. Young, scarred and stronger than he could ever imagine with the X surging through his veins. Trying to redeem himself, Gooz proved time and again that he would die to save the world.
His uniform: Sleek black uniform/mask with silver gloves and eye pieces.
Phil Smith: (Weapons/Technology/Inventor) Phil Smith as he is now would be perfect for the Forge role of keeping the team and headquarters up to date and ultra powerful. With his psychic powers, he can conceal the HQ from the world and the bad guys and with his military expertise he could keep the team properly equipped to fight the forces of evil.
His uniform: take his duds now and mix with a MBL uniform, for style wise, same as now, buzz cut and all.
Zod: (Power House) Zod is stronger than most, had power over shadows and one of the most powerful weapons in the universe (in the form of a gantlet). He lost his hand in a battle with his evil twin, Viper, and single-handly faced down with an evil version of the MBL that killed everyone on his universe.
His Uniform: Classic while jumpsuit/mask with his power gantlet.
Grimm: (Power House) Grimm is the out cast, the rebel, stone cold death faced hero, who has a heart of gold under his cold emotionless skull face. He has a ton of uncapped power, but has no knowledge of how to harness it.
His uniform: Biker ghost rider style. Tosses his MBL uniform in the trash, and holds a MBL badge in his back jeans pocket.
Eurostar: (Retired Mentor) Mixing just about every version of the character created would form the greatest hero from yesteryear. Father and grandfather, Eurostar lost his powers but goes on to mentor the new generation of the MBL. A figure head to the world and one of the only surviving MBS members.
His uniform: Since retiring he doesn’t suit up, but if he did it would be the classic red jumpsuit all the way.
But no team is complete with out the reserves that would spend just as much time in battle as the main team.
Reserve members: Adem Different, Brianna, Chance, Kid Bucket, Ozzy Baker, Smasher, Disco Steve, Agent 57, Lioness, Chewy, Nightwing and Drake to name a few.
Oh and did I mention…
Prometheus X
Have you ever looked into a mirror and wondered if behind it was another world, the same... but totally different?- Reflection (2002) UTOPIAN PRODUCTIONS
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....what is this ' Prometheus X' you speak of....?
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Quote:
Prometheus said:
....what is this 'Prometheus X' you speak of....?
I'm not sure but I hear its like AIDS.
Have you ever looked into a mirror and wondered if behind it was another world, the same... but totally different?- Reflection (2002) UTOPIAN PRODUCTIONS
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An ALL TIME lineup cannot be restricted to just one character per poster. It just can't. Not in my eyes. An ALL TIME lineup for me would almost have to split into various groups, based on how the characters function. Field Team A-The Big Guns-JLA/Authority Danny-The instinctive, natural leader. The fluid that holds the group together. Everyone likes him. Everyone respects him. He works well with anyone. Mick/Mxy-The man in the god. Brilliant, character almost impossible to get wrong. And where Mick goes, Shirley goes. Tobias Christopher-A surly, young speedster. Somewhat standoffish, but still capable of having fun. I wish he would've stayed longer. Turkish-The Prophet of One. Part Jedi Knight, Part Lei Mu Bai, Turkish combines several familiar aspects into a unique character. A monk who loves basketball? Who yearns to escape his responsibility and elope with his love, the heir to Camelot? Brilliant. Grimm-How could he not be here? Dirk Bell-Dirk is just too damn much fun to write. He's the monkeywrench in everybody's works. The guy who intentionally does the wrong thing to piss everybody off. How can you not love that? Blackwulf-The jovial Russian changeling. Even he's not sure who he is half the time. Banshee-Beautiful, innocent, and deadly. The irish songbird is decidedly female, but not too "girly." The romantic subplot with Grissom, has IMO, enhanced both characters. Raptor-I have a personal preference for the obsessive, Ladnikia driven, troubled version of the character. The tormented soul, being pulled away from those he needs most against his will. A hero fallen, struggling to rise again, against seemingly impossible odds. Beautiful stuff. Field Team B-Traveling Team-JLEurope Drake Marshall-Experience, ability, and a funny guy. Or at least he thinks he is. Drake as a character has really come into his own since breaking away from the physical confines of being linked to Drax. The parallels to the flourishing of Notwedge as a writer at the same time go without saying. Lady Lykopis-She's my Hyppolyta fix.  Fantastic. I love this character. Zarch-An alien, tribal archer. Just one example of the amazingly unique ideas Mxy seems to generate without even trying. Ozzy Baxter-A character who can travel down serious or humorous paths and pass between them effortlessly. We've barely begun to know him and I look forward to seeing problems from his past turn up. Mason Templar-I didn't want to like him. My initial impression of the character was Dirk meets Blackwulf. Then I began writing scenes in World of Darkness and his voice made itself known. I truly miss this magnificent bastard. Tayden-Tayden is another character with a surprising presence. Surprising because it's not overt. You'll be writing a post how to figure something out, and then you think of Tayden, and his charm, and largely unphysical abilities will more often than not take you through the situation. Icarus-I admit to not fully having him down yet, but I really enjoy the basic concept. A modern Icarus, always on the verge of flying too high, but somehow managing not to. At least for now. Field Team C-Covert-Planetary Grissom Montag-What else needs to be said at this point. Sam Dawson-A brilliant character. Hiding his childhood scars with his morphing ability, Sam doesn't let his trauma hinder him from living a full life. Friendly, useful, and always there. Except when he's running away from the women in his life. Edmund Gaunt-Tell you the truth, I'm surprised to see Gaunt making lists already. He's largely a work in progress, but I like him. I'm glad you do too. Adem Different-Like Drake, Adem has flourished in the new group, and continues to inspire those who write him, and those who read him. Nuriko-See my votes in the Kampies. Nadia-I was writing the Siege and had no plans at all to use this character or how to do it when all of a sudden one night it hit me. Russian, spy, sexy, she's the Black Widow. And then things clicked into place and Nadia showed up in the story, surprising the team and the writer. Now I enjoy her and wish their was a more consistent way to utilise her unique talents in Vanguard. Support Staff Doc Paragon-The money man. The mover and shaker. The guy would be the leader, if he wasn't so busy already. Paragon sees the potential in Vanguard for improving the world in many ways. And uses his vast resources to enable them to do so. Penny Goodweather-The classic hard working secretary, first to arrive at work and last to leave. No time for a social life. But she happens to be able to interface with computers with her mind. Dr. Quantos-Ideally a mix of what little I know of his old MBL "Doc Quantum" self, and the current half retired scientist. Too old to work on the field team, Dr. Quantos supplies Vanguard with technologies unknown to the rest of the world. Ian Mcgregor-I'm already trying to figure out how to work the stories so that the European team has to go in for checkups. Just to give him more screen time. Jody Huerta-Oh, come on, with as many mental cases as the group has had, we need a staff psychiatrist.
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To Grimm: I, too, consider the angst ridden, Ladnikia possessed Raptor the best incarnation of Euro so far (he was Elric, simply put), but there would have been just one possible outcome for that: that Euro would have become the worst enemy of Vanguard, and a wanna be world conqueror. In fact, when I first started planning Obsidian Illumination II with T5, that was exactly what I was going to do. And Euro would have been killed by the Vanguardians (Grimm, hopefully).
Then T5 left, and the story took a completly different course. Delving with the concept of the "Hero with a thousands faces", I found many things I gave Euro unknowingly, so I got enamored with my character again and decided to keep him alive, having his friends freeing him.
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Absolutely. It was a defined arc that had to end in some manner to have real meaning. That's why I enjoyed it.
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Wow, Grimm. I can only think of one character that was in everyone else's lineups but yours. 
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Quote:
Captain Sammitch said:
Wow, Grimm. I can only think of one character that was in everyone else's lineups but yours.
You can only think of one character? You're only concerned about one character? You only want to write one character?
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Vanguard is a team. To work effectively it has to be. Both Phil Smith the poster and Phil Smith the character are far too insular and self-absorbed to fit into what I think Vanguard should be.
Yes, Phil the character has a lot of potential. We've all seen and in some cases contributed to this potential. But until he begins to actually live up to this potential and work as part of a unit, rather than thinking of himself first, he will never be on my ALL-TIME Vanguard list.
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I notice only one person chose Robo Squirrel. You cold hearted bastards.
Thing is- I can’t spell or type. I spell so badly my spell check doesn’t even know what I was trying to spell. And I have five Eisners HAHAHAHHA!!
-Brian Michael Bendis
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Robo Squirrel for Vanguard Leader elections in '05.
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Damn right.
Where's the Squirrel's Kampy?!
Thing is- I can’t spell or type. I spell so badly my spell check doesn’t even know what I was trying to spell. And I have five Eisners HAHAHAHHA!!
-Brian Michael Bendis
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It wouldn't know how to appreciate those!
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He can be taught to feel... see the last story post.
Thing is- I can’t spell or type. I spell so badly my spell check doesn’t even know what I was trying to spell. And I have five Eisners HAHAHAHHA!!
-Brian Michael Bendis
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You're just jealous 'cuz you didn't think of it first!
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I like Robo Squirrel.
"Party's over, Monarch! I'm shutting down this little treehouse of yours!" Brock Samson
"Inarticulate fury" is the greatest phrase ever." Danny
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Quote:
Last, a mention of Bruteforce. The berserker aspect that we saw just one time, I think is the prelude to cool revelations, like I-man made us used to in the old universe. I am waiting, ready to include BF in my list.
Um, thanks. I wanna do more with that, but it's kinda depending on the story. . .
"Party's over, Monarch! I'm shutting down this little treehouse of yours!" Brock Samson
"Inarticulate fury" is the greatest phrase ever." Danny
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