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His stories seem big and important upon first glance. Mainly because he takes characters who had their hayday 20 years ago and restores them to the look/power/name that they had at the time. Which isn't really progress to the character, its simple pandering to the fanboy minority. Its undoing a decade of work by other writers so that he can get a circle jerk on a messageboard.
But if you look closely, there's this style (or lack there of) to his stories. Its all "events" and "foreshadowing" with no story in between. The characters spend half their dialogue either praising themself or praising another team mate, then there's the cliched scene in all his books where a character has been given a boost to their self-esteem and smiles.
It was nice once, but after a hundred issues over 5 years and heaps of praise, I'm pissed off to the point of giving up on all comics all together.
Bow ties are coool.
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I get the impression (from what some people I normally agree with have said, since I haven't actually read more than one or two issues written by this guy) that Johns is in the business of masturbating fanboys, giving them exactly what they like by producing "cool geeky moment" after "cool geeky moment". For example, I saw a page of Rebirth where Guy Gardner is back with his ring and in his old costume and says something stereotypically bad-ass-like, while smoke, debris, and uncouscious superheroic bodies surround him. That's specifically designed to make Guy Gardner fans like me piss themselves, by appealing to our memories of how the character used to be (and appealing to classic moments like Guy's rebirth in Crisis). Is there more to it? I honestly don't know.
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I agree with you both. Its formulaic puke. There isn't an glimmer of originality in his stories. I have complained before that its published fan fiction.
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Half the shit out now is published fanfiction.
Although I do know of a bunch of fanfiction that might as well be published novels.
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Let me rephrase that: its bad fan fiction. Or standard fan fiction, which is the same thing.
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I think issues of distribution and a dwindling fan base are larger problems for the comic industry than any one specific creator, whether that creator be Johns, Chuck Austen, Rob Liefeld, Jim Lee, Alan Moore, or anyone else you could name.
The guy's obviously doing something right, because his books are selling and DC keeps giving him bigger and higher profile projects.
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He's pandering to the dwindling superhero fan base.
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But he's making DC money for their trademarks. Which is what they want.
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If you view comics as a profit making exercise, its great.
If you view comics as a form of literature, its terrible.
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Which does DC view it as?
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So how much did shazamgrrl pay all to say that?
November 6th, 2012: Americas new Independence Day.
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Quote:
Grimm said:
Which does DC view it as?
A profit making excerise.
How do you view it?
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If it's something I like I either file it under art or entertainment.  If I don't care for it, largely then I don't worry with it.
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Wow, it's weird seeing one of the few writers I like getting these types of critiques. I haven't been reading Titans but JSA has been one of a handful of monthly comics I buy. Johns has done a good job at re-establishing JSA's role in the DCU & using a large cast to good effect IMHO. Yeah there are moments where he throws fanboys a bone but I happen to like getting what I want once in a while 
Fair play!
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Pay them?!
Pay them with what, snot balls? Or beige-colored phlem??
(Sorry, didn't mean to be gross. I contracted a bad cold last week, and I've been confined to my domicile until I've recovered.)
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Quote:
Matter-eater Man said:
Wow, it's weird seeing one of the few writers I like getting these types of critiques. I haven't been reading Titans but JSA has been one of a handful of monthly comics I buy. Johns has done a good job at re-establishing JSA's role in the DCU & using a large cast to good effect IMHO. Yeah there are moments where he throws fanboys a bone but I happen to like getting what I want once in a while
JSA is the one which I have a real issue with. I made the big mistake of buying Virtue and Vice, and I've read about 5 or 6 Johns stories in JSA. Johns makes the repeated mistake of using continuity as a plot device, rather than relying upon real story telling.
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I've never read Virtue & Vice (too stingy to buy it) Johns does use continuity heavily in his stories but I just don't see that as a bad thing. The cast has grown & evolved over the years. Atom Smasher for example is far different from when he joined the team. That for me doesn't happen with poor writing IMHO. But I'll actually take your word that it's poor writing, it just surprises me that I like it so much. I do like reading/watching some things that fall into the garbage category it's just that I usually recognize it for it being bad. Maybe I'm slipping?
Fair play!
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Or maybe you just have a different opinion than Senore Dave.
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Casuistry! Quote:
Matter-eater Man said:
I've never read Virtue & Vice (too stingy to buy it) Johns does use continuity heavily in his stories but I just don't see that as a bad thing. The cast has grown & evolved over the years. Atom Smasher for example is far different from when he joined the team. That for me doesn't happen with poor writing IMHO. But I'll actually take your word that it's poor writing, it just surprises me that I like it so much. I do like reading/watching some things that fall into the garbage category it's just that I usually recognize it for it being bad. Maybe I'm slipping?
I was about to embark on a comparison to Morrison's JLA Earth 2, as an example of good superhero writing, but I was overwhelmed by a sense of deja vu....-
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That reminds me, how's the story coming along? 
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I like Geoff Johns. The one criticism I have is that his stories have happy endings too much of the time. Every now and then something seems like something bad has happened, but it all works out in the end. Having grown immensely attached to Joss Whedon's style of storytelling over the past 8 years, I've come to equate interesting stories with characters being miserable and unhappy.
Knutreturns said: Spoken like the true Greatest RDCW Champ!
All hail King Snarf!
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Stories tend to be tragedies or comedies. Comics seem to be more prone to tragedy. Quote:
Grimm said:
That reminds me, how's the story coming along?
I think I mentioned I had a good story written, andf forgot to save it. I'll start again when I get a spare moment.
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Quote:
Pig Iron said:
Can you like both?
Yes, unless Dave says no
Fair play!
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You can like both.
You can tell people I said so.
I only have a problem with bad story telling, not particular genres. The thing for me is that certain genres (>cough splutter superheroes cough splutter<) suffers from endemic poor story telling. Geoff Johns is guity of this.
If someone (or perhaps we can get consensus) can name for me a single issue of what is considered to be a good Geoff Johns comic, I'll go and buy it and honestly review it.
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I liked Stars & Stripe, but I like silly comics... go figure..i know how to tell the difference though.
`
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And I liked Giffen's JLI, but it was a well-written comedy (until the end, anyway).
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Johns's Flash run I found to be really good, and so far, it's had just as much downers as happy stuff. I mean, Wally's unborn children died! Harsh, yo.
Knutreturns said: Spoken like the true Greatest RDCW Champ!
All hail King Snarf!
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Quote:
Dave said:
You can like both.
You can tell people I said so.
I only have a problem with bad story telling, not particular genres. The thing for me is that certain genres (>cough splutter superheroes cough splutter<) suffers from endemic poor story telling. Geoff Johns is guity of this.
If someone (or perhaps we can get consensus) can name for me a single issue of what is considered to be a good Geoff Johns comic, I'll go and buy it and honestly review it.
Flash is his most consistent work. His run with Scott Kolins on art is pretty top notch.
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Yeah. It's funny, but I didn't care for Kolins's work until his run on the Flash.
Knutreturns said: Spoken like the true Greatest RDCW Champ!
All hail King Snarf!
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I actually can't remember what he did before then. I know he was around, but can't think of what he worked on.
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Any particular issue of Flash I should read for a review?
Bear in mind that I'm asking for Johns at his best.
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If you're not looking to get into a whole Flash story arc, you could try one of his villain spotlight issues.
He's done one each for Captain Cold, Pied Piper, the new Professor Zoom and Mirror Master, and there is one coming up for Heat Wave.
If I had to pick one, I'd say Captain Cold was the best of the lot. I think it was issue 183, but don't quote me on that.
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Yeah, the Captain Cold issue is probably best for a single issue look. It's actually the one that got me interested in his work.
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