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also i dont think jim would have gay friends.
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PJP said:
Those who can't do........Teach!
And those who can't coach become color commentators!
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Quote:
Cowgirl Jack said:
The whole thing wouldn't even be a big friggin' deal if there was just more diversity on campus. If it's okay to look different, act different, or come from a different country, how come it isn't okay to think differently?
So what's to stop Republicans and conservatives from creating that diversity? I've yet to hear any legitimate case of Republicans or conservatives not being allowed to get their opinoons heard and their voices out there. If you think your side isn't being fairly represented, do something about it.
This is why I keep asking about conservative teachers. Are there more liberal professors than conservative professors because conservatives don't want the job? I'm still waiting for somebody to respond to that.
"Well when I talk to people I don't have to worry about spelling." - wannabuyamonkey
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I would not want republican groups invading campuses. I don't thing there's enough room for two extremists viewpoints on campuses.
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Quote:
Darknight613 said:
So what's to stop Republicans and conservatives from creating that diversity? I've yet to hear any legitimate case of Republicans or conservatives not being allowed to get their opinoons heard and their voices out there. If you think your side isn't being fairly represented, do something about it.
This is why I keep asking about conservative teachers. Are there more liberal professors than conservative professors because conservatives don't want the job? I'm still waiting for somebody to respond to that.
I know I personally don't want to teach because I don't want to deal with uppity students, plus I'd like to earn more money than that. But I know that's only my opinion and there's a dozen different reasons why people would/would not want to teach.
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Quote:
Jim Jackson said:
Quote:
I'm Not Mister Mxypltk said:
I've seen it happen. Like, right in front of me.<snip>
Did any Conservative student do poorly in the class *because* of their Conservatism?
My friend did poorly in the class, but then again he did poorly in most classes. Though the people I mentioned often complained about the teacher, I don't know if anyone had any problems because of their political stance. But still, l what the teacher said shows a clear bias a teacher shouldn't have.
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Quote:
wannabuyamonkey said:
Quote:
Matter-eater Man said:
Quote:
Jim Jackson said:
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rex said:
Fucking commies.
What bugs me is that no one thinks any of this anti-Conservative bent is any fault of the Conservatives.
I think we're supposed to be concerned about the kids having to put up with somebody else's veiwpoint before they go to work for their dad's company.
Yea, because we know all us dirty CONs come from wealthy parents and have jobs waiting for us when we get out of school. How the top 1% of americans managed to pull of a 51% victory is beyond me.
You would almost think I started a thread bashing conservative students  Sorry but I tutored a couple of semesters and I have very little sympathy for the student (liberal or conservative) who wines about the teacher instead of doing the work their supposed to do. Reading G-man's opening post just reminded me of that experience.
Fair play!
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britneyspearsatemyshorts said:
also i dont think jim would have gay friends.
I'm sure he would still have time for you
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Quote:
Cowgirl Jack said:
Quote:
Darknight613 said:
So what's to stop Republicans and conservatives from creating that diversity? I've yet to hear any legitimate case of Republicans or conservatives not being allowed to get their opinoons heard and their voices out there. If you think your side isn't being fairly represented, do something about it.
This is why I keep asking about conservative teachers. Are there more liberal professors than conservative professors because conservatives don't want the job? I'm still waiting for somebody to respond to that.
I know I personally don't want to teach because I don't want to deal with uppity students, plus I'd like to earn more money than that. But I know that's only my opinion and there's a dozen different reasons why people would/would not want to teach.
Okay, but you also brought up clubs and organizations, which anyone can start. Why not try one of those instead of teaching, if you think it would diversify the campus?
"Well when I talk to people I don't have to worry about spelling." - wannabuyamonkey
"If Schumacher’s last effort was the final nail in the coffin then Year One would’ve been the crazy guy who stormed the graveyard, dug up the coffin and put a bullet through the franchise’s corpse just to make sure." -- From a review of Darren Aronofsky & Frank Miller's "Batman: Year One" script
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Quote:
Darknight613 said:
Quote:
Cowgirl Jack said:
The whole thing wouldn't even be a big friggin' deal if there was just more diversity on campus. If it's okay to look different, act different, or come from a different country, how come it isn't okay to think differently?
So what's to stop Republicans and conservatives from creating that diversity? I've yet to hear any legitimate case of Republicans or conservatives not being allowed to get their opinoons heard and their voices out there. If you think your side isn't being fairly represented, do something about it.
This is why I keep asking about conservative teachers. Are there more liberal professors than conservative professors because conservatives don't want the job? I'm still waiting for somebody to respond to that.
I'm wondering if it is a case of a smaller pool of conservatives actually applying for the job like you say DK? If that is the case, what can Colleges do? I doubt it's legal to inquire if somebody is conservative or liberal. And that isn't a precedent I would like to see set anywhere.
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And it's not like conservatives or any politcal group should push people into a job they don't want to do. "Hey, we don't have enough liberals working in this gun shop." "Hey, we need more conservatives teaching yoga." * In the end, what are you gonna do?
* Very bad stereotyping on my part. More so since I've done yoga. I appologize.
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Quote:
Matter-eater Man said:
I'm wondering if it is a case of a smaller pool of conservatives actually applying for the job like you say DK? If that is the case, what can Colleges do? I doubt it's legal to inquire if somebody is conservative or liberal. And that isn't a precedent I would like to see set anywhere.
I wouldn't want to see such a precedent either.
Besides, it's not impossible for liberals or conservatives to keep their personal biases out of the classroom.
My mom, a Jewish hardcore liberal, teaches International Relations, specializing in the Middle East. Outside of the classroom, she's very outspoken about her views, but she is very careful to present the information to her students without any bias or slant. She's even written essays (which she's currently trying to get published) criticizing Jewish organizations for encouraging Jewish professors to take a pro-Israel stance in the classroom, saying that teaching students a biased view of history and current events is a disservice to students.
I took an American Governemnt class with this one professor, and I had no way of knowing whether she was a liberal or a conservative (not that I really try to pick up on those sorts of things,) and I never found out until I saw a Bush/Cheney sticker on her car - and by that time, I'd already completed the course.
I think that professors should leave their personal biases outside the classroom. Just like I believe journalists should do. Their job is not to take sides. Their job is to provide information from an objective viewpoint. When they take sides, they are betraying their responsibility to the community.
"Well when I talk to people I don't have to worry about spelling." - wannabuyamonkey
"If Schumacher’s last effort was the final nail in the coffin then Year One would’ve been the crazy guy who stormed the graveyard, dug up the coffin and put a bullet through the franchise’s corpse just to make sure." -- From a review of Darren Aronofsky & Frank Miller's "Batman: Year One" script
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Quote:
Cowgirl Jack said:
And it's not like conservatives or any politcal group should push people into a job they don't want to do. "Hey, we don't have enough liberals working in this gun shop." "Hey, we need more conservatives teaching yoga." * In the end, what are you gonna do?
Exactly.
So it's not fair to slam liberals for doing a job that conservatives don't want to do (I'm not saying that you were, CJ, just so you know).
Last edited by Darknight613; 2005-03-08 1:51 AM.
"Well when I talk to people I don't have to worry about spelling." - wannabuyamonkey
"If Schumacher’s last effort was the final nail in the coffin then Year One would’ve been the crazy guy who stormed the graveyard, dug up the coffin and put a bullet through the franchise’s corpse just to make sure." -- From a review of Darren Aronofsky & Frank Miller's "Batman: Year One" script
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Quote:
I'm Not Mister Mxypltk said:
My friend did poorly in the class, but then again he did poorly in most classes.
...blunting any argument about this prof discriminating against your Conservative friend.
Quote:
Though the people I mentioned often complained about the teacher, I don't know if anyone had any problems because of their political stance. But still, l what the teacher said shows a clear bias a teacher shouldn't have.
It doesn't show a clear bias. It shows an expression of an opinion. If there's no clear evidence that shows that Conservative students did poorly while Liberals did well in the class...there's no case. This guy is not the first, nor the last, opinionated professor.
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Quote:
Darknight613 said:
Okay, but you also brought up clubs and organizations, which anyone can start.
I think there was a thread a loong way back asserting that Campus Republicans is the among the groups experiencing great increases in on-campus membership.
So there's your diversity.
I still say you cannot mandate diversity on the basis of political stance.
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Quote:
Jim Jackson said:
Quote:
I'm Not Mister Mxypltk said:
My friend did poorly in the class, but then again he did poorly in most classes.
...blunting any argument about this prof discriminating against your Conservative friend.
Quote:
Though the people I mentioned often complained about the teacher, I don't know if anyone had any problems because of their political stance. But still, l what the teacher said shows a clear bias a teacher shouldn't have.
It doesn't show a clear bias. It shows an expression of an opinion. If there's no clear evidence that shows that Conservative students did poorly while Liberals did well in the class...there's no case. This guy is not the first, nor the last, opinionated professor.
I didn't say it didn't happen: in fact, I think it probably did. But I don't know for sure. The papers we had to turn in for that class were mostly reflections on what he talked about in class, that being globalisation, imperialism, etc. I had no problem expanding on his thoughts cause I agree with most of what he said, but I can see how the papers would have been tremendously more difficult for a conservative, since they would have debate what the professor said (something people rarely did in class, this guy was a monster debating), and if their arguments weren't up to his I'm assuming they would have got a lousy grade.
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Quote:
I'm Not Mister Mxypltk said:
and if their arguments weren't up to his I'm assuming they would have got a lousy grade.
Taht's a weak assumption to make. It's down to whether or not the students (a) had viewpoints differing strongly from his and (b) if they were able to defend those viewpoints in a scholarly manner on exams, assignments, and papers.
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But the point is I didn't have to defend my points, for me it was just of saying "yep, I agree with that" and expand a little to get a good grade, while the others had to actually defend their views, and if that rarely happened in class was because the few times it did the teacher showed us how fucking good he was at making arguments that left no space for the other side to even be concieved. I can't imagine what it must have been like to be a conservative a turn a paper to the guy, it's a completely different class for them, certainly a more difficult one, and that's not fair.
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Quote:
I'm Not Mister Mxypltk said:
But the point is I didn't have to defend my points, for me it was just of saying "yep, I agree with that" and expand a little to get a good grade, while the others had to actually defend their views, and if that rarely happened in class was because the few times it did the teacher showed us how fucking good he was at making arguments that left no space for the other side to even be concieved. I can't imagine what it must have been like to be a conservative a turn a paper to the guy, it's a completely different class for them, certainly a more difficult one, and that's not fair.
If what you say is in fact accurate, rather than just your opinion of it at a distance, then report the professor to the Department. But you better go in with proof rather than assertion-that-is-opinion.
Did your classmate ever say anything to the professor about his perceptions of the situation?
I'm not saying an individual prof cannot be biased against the Right. My point is more than it will take a ton of evidence to convince me it's a problem in academia and that students are actually receiving poor grades when in fact they deserve better ones.
Last edited by Jim Jackson; 2005-03-09 11:03 AM.
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Quote:
Jim Jackson said:
Quote:
I'm Not Mister Mxypltk said:
But the point is I didn't have to defend my points, for me it was just of saying "yep, I agree with that" and expand a little to get a good grade, while the others had to actually defend their views, and if that rarely happened in class was because the few times it did the teacher showed us how fucking good he was at making arguments that left no space for the other side to even be concieved. I can't imagine what it must have been like to be a conservative a turn a paper to the guy, it's a completely different class for them, certainly a more difficult one, and that's not fair.
If what you say is in fact accurate, rather than just your opinion of it at a distance, then report the professor to the Department. But you better go in with proof rather than assertion-that-is-opinion.
Did your classmate ever say anything to the professor about his perceptions of the situation?
He and other conservatives bitched a lot about the guy, but as you may know that's usual with every class for one reason or the other. I doubt anyone reported him. To be honest, I didn't think of this as a problem until the semester was over, because it didn't affect me in any way and I was concentrated in improving my own grades.
I'm not claiming any of this is hard evidence, obviously, nor am I completely sure about this, I'm just giving my view. If it was the other way around I'd know for sure.
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From the NY Times: Studying for a graduate teaching degree at Le Moyne College, [Scott McConnell] wrote in a paper last fall that "corporal punishment has a place in the classroom."
His teacher gave the paper an A-minus and wrote, "Interesting ideas - I've shared these with Dr. Leogrande," referring to Cathy Leogrande, who oversaw the college's graduate program.
Unknown to Mr. McConnell, his view of discipline became a subject of discussion among Le Moyne officials. Five days before the spring semester began in January, Mr. McConnell learned that he had been dismissed from Le Moyne, a Jesuit college.
"I have grave concerns regarding the mismatch between your personal beliefs regarding teaching and learning and the Le Moyne College program goals," Dr. Leogrande wrote in a letter, according to a copy provided by Mr. McConnell. "Your registration for spring 2005 courses has been withdrawn."
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I can't access the rest of the article. Would you mind posting the whole thing?
I'm especially curious to see whether the word "liberal" or "conservative" is even used in the rest of the article. Because I don't see how this is related to the topic at hand.
Last edited by Darknight613; 2005-03-10 2:13 PM.
"Well when I talk to people I don't have to worry about spelling." - wannabuyamonkey
"If Schumacher’s last effort was the final nail in the coffin then Year One would’ve been the crazy guy who stormed the graveyard, dug up the coffin and put a bullet through the franchise’s corpse just to make sure." -- From a review of Darren Aronofsky & Frank Miller's "Batman: Year One" script
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Harassing students has terribly and sometimes unexpectedly bizarre side effects, such as the followqing case:
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Quote:
the G-man said:
"I have grave concerns regarding the mismatch between your personal beliefs regarding teaching and learning and the Le Moyne College program goals," Dr. Leogrande wrote in a letter, according to a copy provided by Mr. McConnell. "Your registration for spring 2005 courses has been withdrawn."[/LIST]
I hope the guy fights it. I hope he presses this university on why they are behaving as they are. I hope he got whatever due process is available to him at this university (a private school, I might add).
Now you need about another 20,000 such examples to share with us to prove to me that the Liberalism at colleges and universities in the United States has taken a discriminatory turn.
Last edited by Jim Jackson; 2005-03-10 2:07 PM.
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isnt mxy's photographc evidence enough.
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Quote:
the G-man said:
From the NY Times:
Studying for a graduate teaching degree at Le Moyne College, [Scott McConnell] wrote in a paper last fall that "corporal punishment has a place in the classroom."
His teacher gave the paper an A-minus and wrote, "Interesting ideas - I've shared these with Dr. Leogrande," referring to Cathy Leogrande, who oversaw the college's graduate program.
Unknown to Mr. McConnell, his view of discipline became a subject of discussion among Le Moyne officials. Five days before the spring semester began in January, Mr. McConnell learned that he had been dismissed from Le Moyne, a Jesuit college.
"I have grave concerns regarding the mismatch between your personal beliefs regarding teaching and learning and the Le Moyne College program goals," Dr. Leogrande wrote in a letter, according to a copy provided by Mr. McConnell. "Your registration for spring 2005 courses has been withdrawn."
Is it just me, or does this read more like a religious rather than political bias? IT's a Jesuit college. Should they dismiss the student? Absolutely not. He has done nothing but share an opinion on a very good paper. If anything, this ariticle shows that the teacher wasn't biased in the least, since he not only gave the paper an A-minus, but also thought it was a topic worth discussing on an intelectual level with his superior. That the superior than went and through the student out is sickening, but again, it seems to be a religious issue.
<sub>Will Eisner's last work - The Plot: The Secret Story of the Protocols of the Elders of ZionRDCW Profile"Well, as it happens, I wrote the damned SOP," Illescue half snarled, "and as of now, you can bar those jackals from any part of this facility until Hell's a hockey rink! Is that perfectly clear?!" - Dr. Franz Illescue - Honor Harrington: At All Costs"I don't know what I'm do, or how I do, I just do." - Alexander Ovechkin</sub>
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Speaking of religious bias, a lot of "liberal" professors are starting to harass, not just conservatives, but Jews. Here’s an in-depth report on the scary, pervasive antisemitism at the University of California Irvine: Jewish students and activists call UC Irvine a hotbed of anti-Semitic harassment:
In the center quad at UC Irvine, Amir Abdel Malik Ali stands before a crowd of 150, his hands clutching a podium bearing the message, “Desperation of the Zionist Lobby.”
“Zionism is a mixture, a fusion of the concept of white supremacy and the chosen people,” the Oakland-based Muslim religious leader and teacher told the audience at the Feb. 2 Muslim Student Union (MSU)-organized event.
Malik Ali unleashed an attack about the Zionist control of the American media, Zionist complicity in the war in Iraq and Zionists’ ability to deflect justified criticism.
“You will have to hear more about the Holocaust when you accuse them of their Nazi behavior,” he told the group of mostly Muslim students.
At a time when Israeli and Palestinian leaders are taking baby steps toward a peaceful two-state solution, Malik Ali made it clear that he had a different vision.
“One state. Majority rule,” he said to rousing applause. “Check that out. Us. The Muslims.”
Once a sleepy suburban university, UCI has joined the ranks of Columbia University and UC Berkeley as a hotbed of anti-Zionism. The situation has become so tense that the U.S. Department of Education’s Office for Civil Rights is investigating allegations of anti-Jewish harassment at UCI and administration indifference.
In recent years, UCI Muslim student groups have invited speakers like Malik Ali to attack Israel and its supporters in language that has the unmistakable ring of anti-Semitism.
Malik Ali’s, "a specialist in international politics," is also the "brain" behind of ‘ Amerika, the Belly of the Beast.’
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Quote:
Speaking of religious bias, a lot of "liberal" professors are starting to harass, not just conservatives, but Jews.
You'll have to point out where the article even remotely backs that up. Considering that towards the end of the article it says ...
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Reversing a three-year trend, the ADL said that anti-Semitic incidents on American campuses declined in 2003, the latest year for which data exist. At UCI, recent developments suggest a slight cooling off might be under way between Jewish and Muslim student activists.
...this is just partisan name calling lacking merit. I'm curious how long before we see the "liberals have tails & want to rape our women" thread. 
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Quote:
the G-man said:
http://www.columbiaunbecoming.com/
http://www.campus-watch.org/article/id/1360
Funny thing about both of those articles: none of those have any references to liberals. And "liberal arts" doesn't count.
Anti-semitism is its own problem. Don't go dragging a partisan blood feud into it.
"Well when I talk to people I don't have to worry about spelling." - wannabuyamonkey
"If Schumacher’s last effort was the final nail in the coffin then Year One would’ve been the crazy guy who stormed the graveyard, dug up the coffin and put a bullet through the franchise’s corpse just to make sure." -- From a review of Darren Aronofsky & Frank Miller's "Batman: Year One" script
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Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 53,734 Likes: 2
Educator to comprehension impaired (JLA, that is you) 50000+ posts
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Educator to comprehension impaired (JLA, that is you) 50000+ posts
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 53,734 Likes: 2 |
partisan blood fueds have their own problem too so dont go dragging your anti-semitism into it too!
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Joined: May 2003
Posts: 43,951 Likes: 6
Officially "too old for this shit" 15000+ posts
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OP
Officially "too old for this shit" 15000+ posts
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 43,951 Likes: 6 |
Given that approximately 95% of the faculty at any given Ivy League school is liberal, there is a approximately 1 95% chance that liberals are engaged in, allowing, or otherwise complicit in this behavior.
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Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 17,801
terrible podcaster 15000+ posts
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terrible podcaster 15000+ posts
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 17,801 |
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 15,880 Likes: 52
Fair Play! 15000+ posts
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Fair Play! 15000+ posts
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 15,880 Likes: 52 |
Quote:
Darknight613 said:
Quote:
the G-man said:
http://www.columbiaunbecoming.com/
http://www.campus-watch.org/article/id/1360
Funny thing about both of those articles: none of those have any references to liberals. And "liberal arts" doesn't count.
Anti-semitism is its own problem. Don't go dragging a partisan blood feud into it.
The 'liberals are anti-semites' accusation seems to be a talking point these days amongst some cons.  According to G-man's article things are getting better, with incidents of anti-semitism down. And using G-man's reasoning, the liberals should get the credit for that drop. (that is if we were using his argument logically )
On a serious, note I hate the tactic of smearing a broad group (like lib or con) with something terrible and then offer up fuzzy rationalizing.
Fair play!
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Joined: May 2003
Posts: 43,951 Likes: 6
Officially "too old for this shit" 15000+ posts
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OP
Officially "too old for this shit" 15000+ posts
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 43,951 Likes: 6 |
Quote:
According to G-man's article things are getting better, with incidents of anti-semitism down. And using G-man's reasoning, the liberals should get the credit for that drop. (that is if we were using his argument logically
Using THAT type of logic, if crime goes down we should thank the criminals, not the police.
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Joined: May 2003
Posts: 43,951 Likes: 6
Officially "too old for this shit" 15000+ posts
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OP
Officially "too old for this shit" 15000+ posts
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 43,951 Likes: 6 |
The Athens Banner Herald, on the other hand, reports that openly Christian university professors feel a bit out of sorts on the University of Georgia and other American campuses these days. Several openly Christian professors tell the paper that it’s odd that they are considered eccentrics worthy of ridicule on campus when their views actually coincide with the majority of Americans. People who profess to be open-minded close shop when it comes to religion, they say, or at least some forms of religion. "If supposedly open-minded intellectuals made the kind of remarks about people of Jewish faith that they make about Southern Baptists, they would be penalized, if not sued, for libel or slander, or denounced for their bigotry," English professor Jonathan Evans tells the paper.
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